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Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys

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Who will win ?

Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys Vote_lcap64%Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys Vote_rcap 64% 
[ 18 ]
Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys Vote_lcap32%Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys Vote_rcap 32% 
[ 9 ]
Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys Vote_lcap4%Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys Vote_rcap 4% 
[ 1 ]
 
Total Votes : 28
 
 
Poll closed

Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys Empty Saracens 31 - 26 Ospreys

Post by maestegmafia Tue 06 Dec 2011, 8:13 pm

Saracens (23) 31
Tries: Gill, Joubert, Wyles Cons: Farrell 2 Pens: Farrell 4

Ospreys (13) 26
Tries: Beck 2 Cons: Biggar 2 Pens: Biggar 4


Saracens edged an entertaining Heineken Cup pool contest at Wembley but a bonus point kept Ospreys in contention.

Sarries led 10-3 after an early Rhys Gill try before the first of Ashley Beck's two scores saw the Welsh region level.

But Saracens led 23-13 at the interval after a second try from Ernst Joubert and three Owen Farrell penalties.

Chris Wyles' try put them 28-16 up but Beck's second and Dan Biggar's fourth penalty rewarded the visitors' efforts.

The two sides will meet again at the Liberty Stadium in Swansea next Friday with qualification still very much up for grabs, Treviso's victory over Biarritz earlier in the day leaving the pool wide open.


Last edited by maestegmafia on Sun 11 Dec 2011, 1:11 am; edited 9 times in total

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Post by maestegmafia Tue 06 Dec 2011, 9:17 pm

Should be a cracker, bit expensive though considering it is nearly Christmas

Train is £49.50 Single

£33 a ticket. I know its Wembley which is an amazing stadium but thats a lot compared with £20 for the return fixture at the Liberty...!

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Post by Breadvan Tue 06 Dec 2011, 9:32 pm

Yep, To close to crimbo for a $$ trip up to Wembley so pub for this one. Looking forward to it.
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Post by beshocked Tue 06 Dec 2011, 9:38 pm

George Kruis is South African? Jacques Burger is South African? Hayden Smith is Australian? Mako Vunipola a New Zealander??? Also Brad Barritt is EQ, he has an English mother after all.

Where did you get this information from?

For the record George Kruis is definitely English. Burger is Namibian. He was the Namibian captain in the world cup! Hayden Smith is an USA international though does have Aussie roots. Mako Vunipola is English but has Tongan ancestry.

I don't understand the head to head either. Erm

Saracens lost to London Irish? Shocked

Hey at least you made the thread. Fair play.

You got tickets for £33? I think you've been ripped off mate. You can get tickets from £5.http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/event/3700470393907F30?artistid=162563&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=225/

Mid level is £33 but you can get tickets much cheaper.

Anyway mate all the best. thumbsup

If you could give me some info on the Ospreys I would appreciate it. Your expected team, who will be available, will James and the two Joneses be fit etc.

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Post by maestegmafia Tue 06 Dec 2011, 9:52 pm

Hey easy now Tiger....!

Takes bloody ages to trace all the info above...! Cant get it all right, just doing my best. To answer your questions Ill do my best below...

beshocked wrote:George Kruis is South African?
My mistake Typo?

beshocked wrote:Jacques Burger is South African?
You are right he is Namibian, my mistake will edit

beshocked wrote:Hayden Smith is Australian?
Born in Penrith Australia but apparently qualified for America while studying there.

beshocked wrote:Mako Vunipola a New Zealander???
It says on the RFU website that he is of Tongan decent and born in New Zealand. I dont think he has played for England yet.

beshocked wrote:Also Brad Barritt is EQ, he has an English mother after all.

He was born in SA and hasnt played for England



beshocked wrote:If you could give me some info on the Ospreys I would appreciate it. Your expected team, who will be available, will James and the two Joneses be fit etc.

Will do when there is more info... I have found as much as I can at the moment..

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Post by stlowe Tue 06 Dec 2011, 11:06 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
beshocked wrote:Also Brad Barritt is EQ, he has an English mother after all.

He was born in SA and hasnt played for England


He's played several times for the Saxons over the last couple of years and went on tour with the senior side last year, playing in the game against the Maoris (wasn't a capped appearance admittedly).

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Post by maestegmafia Tue 06 Dec 2011, 11:20 pm

I saw him last year for Saracens he is very good. Kind of a bash it up the middle bloke but has a deft pass too.

Though I would guess Sarries would play Farrell at 12.

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Post by stlowe Wed 07 Dec 2011, 12:32 am

Saracens have often principally used him as a physical runner and the cornerstone of their defence (he's the only non-backrow in the top 10 tacklers in the league), but there is a lot more to his game and Hodgson has allowed him to demonstrate more of that. He pops up at first receiver for Saracens on more than a few occasions on multiphase ball, something playing part of a season at FH for Natal Sharks gave him a bit of experience at.

No, Barritt will play 12, Farrell has only played 12 once this season.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 07 Dec 2011, 8:36 am

I am presuming that the Ospreys will be without Adam Jones, AW Jones and Paul James.

The team is likely to be announced Friday.

Something along the lines of

Duncan Jones
Hibbard/Bennett
Jarvis
Ian Evans
Ian Gough
Ryan Jones
Justin Tuperic
Jon Thomas
Rhys Webb
Dan Biggar
Shane
Ashley Beck
Andrew Bishop
Tommy Bowe
Barry Davies

I would like to see Matthew Morgan get some time at ten again. He is starting to look sublime.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 07 Dec 2011, 8:46 am

Apparently Adam Jones looks as though he will at least be on the bench for Saturday. I have heared that he has been doing very phisycal training all week and they are going to make a decision on Friday. thumbsup

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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 9:01 am

Don't worry Maestegmafia you did the best you could. I should know my own team better and you should know a lot more about the Ospreys than me.

Saying Hayden Smith is Australian is similar to calling George North English,Toby Faletau Tongan,Simon Shaw Kenyan, Alex Corbisero American etc. Being born somewhere is different to where you feel your loyalties lie.

Mako Vunipola was on the RFU website because he has played England U20s.

Also Mouritz Botha,Petrus Du Plessis and Nils Mordt are English qualified. Botha has a full England cap. Nils Mordt has played for England Sevens and Saxons.

Kameli Ratuvou is Fijian. Fair play though I think the rest is correct. I am telling you for the sake of accuracy and to expand your knowledge base.



A bit of synopsis of each player? I know a few of your players like Ickle Shane,Bowe,Biggar, the 3 Joneses - Ryan,Alywn and Adam, James, Bennett,Prydie.

I knew more but obviously you got rid of Capn'Hook,Phillips and Byrne.


Some information about your current style of play, tactics etc. Whose in form, who isn't etc would be appreciated.

If you want I can do the same for Saracens.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 07 Dec 2011, 9:05 am

After the last 3 matches is any Saracen on form.

You will be glad to know that after predicting Sarries to win at BO, I am now going for an Ospreys win. This surely means Sarries will win.

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Post by Metal Tiger Wed 07 Dec 2011, 9:13 am

maestegmafia wrote:Hey easy now Tiger....!

Errrr... what? Erm

I haven't been involved in this thread yet?

Very Happy
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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 9:13 am

Saracens team I hope we play

1.Stevens
2.Brits
3.Nieto
4.Borthwick
5.Kruis
6.Brown
7.Burger
8.Joubert
9.Spencer
10.Hodgson
11.Short
12.Barritt
13.Powell
14.Strettle
15.Goode

16.Gill
17.Du Plessis
18.Smit
19.Botha
20.Wray
21.Stringer
22.Farrell
23.Wyles

The 23 will likely look like that but starters might vary. Schalk Brits will definitely be back from his ban. Hodgson and Barritt should be fit. Fingers crossed. With our playmakers and our superstar back we'll be a stronger side.

I hope Bennett starts for the Ospreys. Very Happy Bennett vs Brits. Who would you put your money on?

Thanks London Tiger. thumbsup Err no not really. Not many are in form but we know they can turn it on. Big occasion like this and we might see Saracens play well!

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Post by BlueNote Wed 07 Dec 2011, 11:09 am

I got some nice tickets around halfway for £30 each, but there are cheaper ones available.

It'll be a big boost to Ospreys if Adam Jones is fit.

Also, isn't it more likely to be Fussell than Barry Davies? And, please, Hibbard over Bennett.

Saracens must be favourites. Ospreys will be very disrupted by the loss then return of their Wales squad players. They have some players on form though - Duncan Jones and Ian Evans for starters.

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Post by Portnoy Wed 07 Dec 2011, 11:48 am

beshocked wrote:George Kruis is South African? Jacques Burger is South African? Hayden Smith is Australian? Mako Vunipola a New Zealander??? Also Brad Barritt is EQ, he has an English mother after all.


You got tickets for £33? I think you've been ripped off mate. You can get tickets from £5.http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/event/3700470393907F30?artistid=162563&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=225/


If you could give me some info on the Ospreys I would appreciate it. Your expected team, who will be available, will James and the two Joneses be fit etc.

Sarries jnr £5 As declared on their website

Well as I sought one as a dummy 15-y-o

Row 4 Seats 34
Description Price Level 4 LEVEL 1

Type Junior Ticket (U16s)
Price
£6.00 x 1
Price Details
SUBTOTAL
£6.00

Tickets/Items
£6.00
Box Office Collection
(includes Order Processing Fee)
£2.50
TOTAL CHARGES
£8.50

Mark up - 70%

Ryanair policy copied.
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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 11:56 am

Ok Portnoy you got me. I would be £5 if not for the additional charges from ticket master. They need a margin afterall.

Bluenote A.Jones wouldn't start though would he?

Can any you give me some more detail on the Ospreys team? Whose been looking good? Whose who? With the departure of high profile "galacticos" who have filled their boots?

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 07 Dec 2011, 11:58 am

The Ospreys have verged on the less expansive aspirational style they failed to convincingly establish over the last few years. They have far more conservative inside backs that take less risks.

Over the last two seasons the forwards have really come on, a strong set piece, reputable front row, big second rows and back rows that can run and do the dark stuff down the mines.

Rhys Webb is a great prospect for the Os and Wales at Scrum half. Far from a finished article but a very good player and in some electric form.

Biggar is measured conservativism personified. I think he kicks too much, almost on a kind of auto pilot and would rather Morgan was given his place. Morgan is electric, only just 19 but is well renown for his skills and game reading. He also has inspirational magic and the idea of him and Shane Willams in attack should scare the bejeeebus out of any opposition.

We dont have the creativity we had in the center with players like Henson and Hook gone, shame but Beck, Bishop and Parker are dependable and definitely a match for anything Sarries have to offer.

Ospreys have had a good season, mainly utilising their squad minus the big names who have predominately been on Welsh duty or injured. The back up is good, we beat a full strength Munster last week at home completing the double (first leg at Thormond during the RWC), we have not lost to an Irish province this season.

Ospreys as ever are likely to capitulate if things go against them in the set piece so it will be interesting to see what Saracens have to offer. Having watched Saracens lose to Northampton on Sky the other week and their woeful performance against Biarritz in France the week before, it looks like they don't have a massive threat in the areas where the Ospreys might struggle...!

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Post by Portnoy Wed 07 Dec 2011, 12:13 pm

beshocked wrote:Ok Portnoy you got me. I would be £5 if not for the additional charges from ticket master. They need a margin afterall.

Bluenote A.Jones wouldn't start though would he?

Can any you give me some more detail on the Ospreys team? Whose been looking good? Whose who? With the departure of high profile "galacticos" who have filled their boots?

But it is the Ryanair scam all the same. They know how much the punter has to pay in advance.

On the Tigers' site they don't advertise a false claim for 'from' ticket prices.

So I explored:

Leicester Tigers v Aironi Rugby Heineken Cup 21 January 2012 Kick Off: 3.00pm

Tigers jnr

Ticketing Total
Tickets: £7.00
Booking Fee: £0.00
Carriage Fee: £0.00
Web Sales Fee: £1.50
Total: £8.50

And the Web Sales Fee is optional. But I include it as a matter of like-for-like comparison.
- Delivered to the purchaser's address.

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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 12:26 pm

Thanks for that maestegmafia.

Saracens have won a lot of matches. This has been built on excellent discipline,resolute defence and dependable goal kicking.

Last season in the AP we had the best defence and discipline - conceding the least amount of cards,our try count and points conceded were the lowest.

We also had the best lineout in the league.

Those two losses don't concern me too much. One was away to one of the best English sides in the league who were baying for blood. The other away against a French club with one of the best home records in the HC cup. I think something like 34 wins 3 losses.

Afterall don't forget we did crush Treviso while not really playing that well.

Saracens do relish the big games and do have a good record at Wembley -5/6, the only loss being a narrow one to Leinster.

Saracens are 2nd in the AP with 8 wins and 2 losses - Wins vs Leicester,Gloucester,Bath and Exeter (away), Newcastle,Sale,Worcester and London Irish at home. Losses vs Saints away, Wasps (counts at home but was a Twickenham)

Top of the HC pool on 6 points. Bonus point win at home vs Treviso. Bonus point loss vs Biarritz away.

I would not underestimate Saracens if I were you.

Our frontrow will likely consist of Stevens,Brits and Nieto.

Matt Stevens is an international class prop. Not in the best of form but capable of excellence.

Schalk Brits is a star who needs no introduction. Didn't play in our last 3 matches because of a ban. He is capable of the sublime and has the ability to unlock defences. Also has improved his set piece ability.

Carlos Nieto is an very experienced Italian scrummager.Doesn't offer much in the loose but is very adept at scrummaging.

2nd row consists of Steve Borthwick and Mouritz Botha.

The much maligned ex England captain Borthwick is still one of the best lineout operators in England. Much underrated as a captain. He might not be charismatic but the players respect him and he has a way with words in regards to the refs.

Mouritz Botha was in sublime form last season which earnt him an England squad call up but has not redisovered that form. When in form he is abrasive,powerful and a real asset in defence. Currently he is a bit off colour.

To be continued....

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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 12:35 pm

The backrow will likely consist of Kelly Brown,Jacques Burger and Ernst Joubert.

Kelly Brown is a Scottish international (49 caps) who has been one of Saracens' and Scotland's most consistent performers.

Jacques Burger is the Namibian captain known for his hard hitting tackles but also for his hardwork at the breakdown.

Ernst Joubert is one of the best no 8s in the Aviva Premiership. He is an excellent all rounder, adept in the lineout,scores tries, good ball carrier and strong defender. He is the vice captain. He spurs on the team. When Saracens play well he is generally at the thick of it.


Scrum half is Ben Spencer, 19 year old we signed off Cambridge before pre season began. WIth injuries to De Kock and Wigglesworth he has found himself in the frontline. He is cool and calm under pressure. Known for his excellent box kick though he does take a long time to do so. A solid all rounder.


Likely fly half is Charlie Hodgson. The ex Sale fly half is the top points scorer in the AP and one of the most consistent fly halves in the AP. He will look to get a much underrated backline going against Ospreys if he does indeed start.

To be continued...

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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 07 Dec 2011, 1:04 pm

Should be a good game this one.

Ospreys have been top of the Pro12 for most of the Season. Looking convincing along the way. 1 loss 1 draw from 10 games.

They did struggle to draw in Italy in the HC though.

Sarries 2 losses from 10 in the AP. Similar position.

They have only lost once in Wembley, some bloke called eh.... Sextoy or something scored all the points against them. Wink

Would like to see our co-leagueists take it of course.

But I'm backing Sarries to do it at home, not by much. Last game on Saturday with no other games on at the same time.

If my wife and kids don't kick up, I'll be watching all the games on Sat.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 07 Dec 2011, 2:32 pm

I would say that the odds are that this will be pretty even, Ospreys are easily equal if not on a slightly better run, certainly looking at recent matches, but Saracens have home away from home advantage and possibly a decent size crowd. I don't imagine at the cost of it that too many Ospreys supporters from Wales will travel, though their may be a few in London wishing to go.


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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 2:43 pm

Maestegmafia looks like the bookies don't agree with you. Sorry mate. thumbsup

Odds are here. http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/club-rugby/heineken-cup/saracens-v-ospreys/winner

Other odds: http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/club-rugby/heineken-cup/

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Post by BlueNote Wed 07 Dec 2011, 3:04 pm

As always, it's hard to know what Ospreys team will turn up. They've had some good individual matches in the Heineken over the years (I remember seeing them demolish a fairly good Quins side at the Stoop with a certain Mr Henson making Will Greenwood look fairly silly, although that was a long time ago now), and sometimes they just don't turn up - Saracens at Vicarage Road, London Irish at the Madeski.

I worry that the Ospreys won't have enough of a cutting edge behind against what will be a well-organised and resolute defence.

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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 3:16 pm

Richard Hill - what a legend! An ageing, almost one legged version managed to completely outplay "the one true region" backrow that day.

Both Saracens and Ospreys are almost completely different from the ones that played at VR.

There have been cracks in our defence this season. Ickle Shane and Bowe could exploit this. Our set piece hasn't been firing brilliantly. In general we haven't been playing that well but notching up the wins.

In the last two seasons we have hit our stride in February onwards.

If Saracens do indeed fire though it could be a long day for the O's.

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Post by Dubbelyew L Overate Wed 07 Dec 2011, 3:22 pm

Seems that Peter Stringer has been swapped into Sarries Eurosquad at the expense of Wigglesworth. Chances of him starting or bench?

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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 3:26 pm

Yes there is a high chance DLO. Do you mind me calling you DLO? Much easier than typing Dubbelyew L Overate.

Not sure if it would be the right decision throwing Stringer in straight away but I suppose he's a very experienced professional rugby player. He'll do ok.

Does that mean that if hypothetically Saracens get to the HC final and Wigglesworth is fit he couldn't play?

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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 07 Dec 2011, 3:35 pm

beshocked wrote:Yes there is a high chance DLO. Do you mind me calling you DLO? Much easier than typing Dubbelyew L Overate.

Not sure if it would be the right decision throwing Stringer in straight away but I suppose he's a very experienced professional rugby player. He'll do ok.

Does that mean that if hypothetically Saracens get to the HC final and Wigglesworth is fit he couldn't play?

Stringer is in the Munster HC squad. (and 34 next week) Does that mean he can't play HC for Sarries, or does he have to have played a game to be cup tied?

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/munster_rugby.php?section=2

Edit: Sorry, I see he has been added to Sarries squad.

Wigglesworth can be reinstated for the knockout stages. You are allowed to add players again in April

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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 3:41 pm

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=6680

Jennifer McLadyboy according to the Saracens website link Stringer will be registered to play for Saracens.

I believe he can play for Saracens because he hasn't been involved in a Munster cup game. He would replace Wigglesworth because we have two injuries in the scrum half department.

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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 07 Dec 2011, 3:48 pm

Stringer would not be able to play knockouts for Munster though Smile

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 07 Dec 2011, 3:52 pm

Stringer last week was third choice Munster Scrumhalf.

The first and second choice scrum halfs were outplayed by Rhys Webb of the Ospreys...

Bodes well, for us..!!!

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Post by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2011, 4:03 pm

Maestegmafia maybe that tells you that Stringer shouldn't have been 3rd choice scrum half!

Can any Munster or Pro12 fan tell me if Stringer is still a good player or has he lost his zip? I have always been a fan of his so fingers crossed he can do a good job for Saracens.

It would worry me a little bit defensively if Stringer and Hodgson start! Erm Though certainly both ooze experience and class. On the other hand it might actually see Saracens using their much underrated backline to devastating effect!

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 07 Dec 2011, 5:55 pm

Although Stringer had a long career, he was never an outstanding scrum half, more of a ball shifter to a game making flyhalf like O'Gara.

To be fair although he has a wealth of experience he was rightfully usurped by younger better, more talented players in TOL and Connor Murray when they eventually arrived.

He doesn't make many mistakes, never has done, but I think Sarries will miss having an extra tactician at 9.

With Stringer you know he will pass, he rarely makes breaks.

For example look at the length of his career internationally and for munster and he was never considered for the Lions. 98 Caps for 30 points.

compare that to the following:

Rob Howley - 8 year career internationally 59 Caps 50 Points 2 Lions tours 1st choice scrum half

Mike Phillips - 7 year career to date, 60 Caps 40 points 1 Lions tour starting Scrum half

Tomás O'Leary - 4 year career to date, 22 caps 15 points

Mike Blair - 8 year career to date, 75 caps 35 points

Matt Dawson - 11 year career, 77 Caps 101 Points, 3 Lions tours


You see that the man who took his spot has almost contributed as many points as Stringer in a third of the caps.

He wont let you down, but I wouldnt expect anything special from him. I think Sarries would have been well served by giving a keen youngster a go not an ageing warhorse like Stringer.

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 08 Dec 2011, 1:43 am

BBC Sport wrote:The Ospreys believe the form of scrum-half Rhys Webb could be enough to push him into Wales coach Warren Gatland's Six Nations Championship plans.

Webb was instrumental in the Ospreys 19-13 RaboDirect Pro12 win over Munster last weekend.

His current form could well challenge the likes of Lloyd Williams, Mike Phillips and Tavis Knoyle.

"He's as good as anyone they've [Wales] got around," insisted Ospreys director of rugby Scott Johnson.

"He's come on as a player on the pitch and off it. He's grown a million miles as well."

Johnson is not surprised by his form and claims it was Webb's displays at the end of last season which changed his thinking on bringing in a big name scrum-half after Mike Phillips signed for Bayonne.

"At the end of last year when we were making decisions of who we would keep and who we didn't keep caused me a massive dilemma," revealed the Australian.

"Because I had a person in mind who would be really good for this region, but Rhys' form went through the roof in that period which made me think I did not want to stunt the kid's growth.

Continue reading the main story
I feel there is a Test player in the making there
Scott Johnson
Ospreys director of coaching on Rhys Webb
"I feel there is a Test player in the making there.

"So I finished up changing the decision and one of the reasons we went for Kahn [Fotuali'i] is the fact can play in a multitude of positions.

"That is very, very good for Rhys. It is enough pressure on him while allowing us to have versatility with the kid we bought.

"I feel there's a Test player in the making there, so I ended up changing the decision [on recruitment].

"I think he's a very, very good rugby player, and in actual fact he is a Test player. He's done wonderfully well."

Webb, 23 on 9 December, has been declared fit for the Ospreys' Heineken Cup visit to Wembley to play Saracens on Saturday after suffering cramp against Munster.

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 08 Dec 2011, 1:45 am

O's Coach Scott johnson pre match press conference.

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/6016.php

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 08 Dec 2011, 8:39 am

The Ospreys confirm the signing of South African centre Stefan Watermeyer.

Watermeyer wrote:I'm very excited to join the Ospreys. It's been a while since we first spoke about coming over back in October, there were regulations to go through, but now I'm here I just want to get on the pitch again.

There's a lot of good players here, with international exposure, who I'm looking forward to training with and trying to learn from, to understand the set-up. I'm here initially until the end of the season but I want to do enough to show the coaches that I can be an Ospreys player for a lot longer.


Director of Coaching, Scott Johnson wrote:
"He's going to bring typical South African resilience and grit in midfield, but there's a fair bit of skill in there as well.

"He will provide greater depth for us in an area where we don't have too many options at the moment, and will put the right kind of pressure on Ashley which is a good thing for him and for the Ospreys.

"We only had one non-Welsh player in our starting line-up at the weekend against Munster, despite having so many players absent.
http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/6019.php

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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Dec 2011, 9:02 am

Pardon my ignorance Maestegmafia but who is Stefan Watermeyer?Quite strange to see you Welsh bringing in players so you can make them Welsh qualified to play for you. Also isn't this signing a little late? He certainly won't feature against Saracens.

That Ospreys team doesn't feel me with dread. Maybe it's less about the galacticos and more about Ospreys at last bulding a team ethos. The results speak for themselves you have had a good season so far. I will watch out for ickle shane and Bowe in particular. The two A.Jones out is a big blow for you.

Saracens' team is more known than yours which is odd.

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 08 Dec 2011, 9:11 am

He is apparently a talented lad. We could do with another center, an inexpensive one as the academy hasn't produced two last year to fill the void of Henson and Hook leaving the midfield region, just one in Ashley Beck. Experiments like playing Bowe at center didnt really work to well.

What do you mean by "Saracens' team is more known than yours which is odd."



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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Dec 2011, 9:24 am

Maestegmafia I mean that our players are higher profile than the O's team now.

When we played you in 2008 you had the grandslam stars like Tango man,Phillips,Byrne and Hook as well the ones who have stayed.Your team is a lot less star studded than it used to be. Maybe the players who have taken over are as good but they aren't as high profile.I get the impression you have been focussing on your academy more.

Our most well known player in 2008 was Richard Hill but other than him it wasn't that well known.

We now have players like Brits,Borthwick,Hodgson,K.Brown,Burger,Strettle and Stevens etc. even are likely to have Stringer on the bench.

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 08 Dec 2011, 9:40 am

Players like Henson and Hook were academy players too, Henson was a Swansea player and Hook came through the academy via Neath RFC. Phillips and Byrne were originally Llanelli players.

I see that you mean "high profile" when you wrote "known". The Ospreys are discouraged by the WRU, from buying in "Talent", as Saracens have. They also wouldn't have the budget to play in the "Arms Race" that the English and particularly French clubs do.

The Welsh set up is geared towards producing talent to raise the quality of Welsh Qualified rugby throughout the regions and below. There is a Hierarchy Infrastructure from local village clubs to town clubs through the leagues to regional academies and eventually national selection, designed to help Welsh international rugby compete against Nations with populations almost 20 times the size.

This may hinder the regions in Wales as they can not buy in a few World Cup winning players to improve the side as their current rivals have done.

The advantage of Regional way is that all the players see what they are aiming for, they want regional success. They aren't just financially motivated. The youngsters coming through now only know this regional set up. The system will only improve. We as fans have to be patient. Luckily it seems to be working well already and the Welsh team and all the regions are full of young academy talent that want to go out there and win.

As you my well have seen at the RWC or in the previous HEC.

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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Dec 2011, 9:56 am

In the RWC yes but the previous HEC?

We have our academy players too. Notably Short,Farrell and Goode. Every year Saracens have a notable number of players in the England U20s.

Also have taken players and raised their profiles.Brits wasn't an unknown but his profile has grown hugely. The likes of Joubert,Burger,Botha were relative unknowns.

Saracens believe in a good mix. The problem with your academy lot is the lack of experience. That hard edge.

I would expect our backrow to target your halfbacks to try and unsettle them.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 08 Dec 2011, 9:56 am

beshocked wrote:Pardon my ignorance Maestegmafia but who is Stefan Watermeyer?Quite strange to see you Welsh bringing in players so you can make them Welsh qualified to play for you. Also isn't this signing a little late? He certainly won't feature against Saracens.

That Ospreys team doesn't feel me with dread. Maybe it's less about the galacticos and more about Ospreys at last bulding a team ethos. The results speak for themselves you have had a good season so far. I will watch out for ickle shane and Bowe in particular. The two A.Jones out is a big blow for you.

Saracens' team is more known than yours which is odd.

Beshocked, Adam Jones could be fit for Saturday, he has been training all week and they are going to make a decision tommorow. I doubt he will start but he could be on the bench.

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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Dec 2011, 10:02 am

LordDowlais fair enough. It will mean he'll definitely start for the return leg in Swansea which is crucial.

You do need him. He's arguably your best player.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 08 Dec 2011, 10:08 am

Also beshocked, I'll concede that Sarries are strong favouriutes for the game on Saturday, but I also think that the Ospreys will surprise you, and although I think that Saracens will win I expect the Ospreys to get at least a LBP.


Last edited by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Dec 2011, 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Dec 2011, 10:13 am

LordDowlais you could well be right. I am taking nothing for granted.

I would be pleased with an 8+ plus win.

In contrast Ospreys will be favourites for the return leg in Swansea.

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 08 Dec 2011, 10:23 am

After recent Sarries performances I would have thought winning anything would be more than positive?

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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Dec 2011, 10:32 am

Maestegmafia if you want to take solace from the Biarritz and Saints results then you are welcome to. Crucially both were away from home. Wembley isn't VR but Saracens will feel more comfortable there than the O's.

Sarries performances in general haven't been brilliant but it doesn't matter if they rack up the wins. Saracens still prevented Saints the try bonus, still picked up the losing bonus against Biarritz and got the try bonus vs Treviso at home.

8/10 in the AP and 6 points in the HC so far is a good haul. Most teams would be pleased with that from our matches!

It's results that matter more than performance. Well it is in our case anyway.

Ospreys should be disappointed by their failure to beat Treviso.

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Post by Morgannwg Thu 08 Dec 2011, 10:55 am

Players like Jon Thomas, James King, Jarvis, Tom Smith all should start IMO. Ospreys have played better this year with these guys starting. I'd keep davies at full back just to keep Fussell out of the team. Goughy was a bit error strewn against Munster so I would be tempted to go with a 2nd row of Ryan Jones and Ian Evans. When is Paul James back? Duncan Jones is a weak scrummager and that could prove costly.

I hope they'd pick: Davies, Bowe, Bishop/Parker, Beck, Williams, Biggar/Morgan, Webb - Thomas, King, Smith, Evans, R.Jones, Jarvis, Bennet, D.Jones.
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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Dec 2011, 11:02 am

Morgannwg tell me a bit about these players please.

I don't know much about the players you mention. Actually I don't know too much about the Ospreys team.

Why would you start Bennett? He can't throw straight. Certainly when I have seen him he doesn't.

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