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606 Picks the England Team v Scotland in 6N - Tighthead Prop

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formerly known as Sam
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Who should start at tighthead for England v Scotland?

606 Picks the England Team v Scotland in 6N - Tighthead Prop Vote_lcap78%606 Picks the England Team v Scotland in 6N - Tighthead Prop Vote_rcap 78% 
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Total Votes : 36
 
 
Poll closed

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Post by LondonTiger Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:19 am

Currently Corbs looks nailed on to be our starter at Loosehead. Before we look at the hooker, lets select our Tighthead.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:40 am

Is it any contest but Cole? PDJ and /or Stevens to make up the EPS numbers

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Post by Cumbrian Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:44 am

Dan Cole. I really worry about him getting injured, the back up at tighthead isn't that amazing... They'd do a job for England no doubt, but wouldn't be at Cole's level.
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Post by hugehandoff Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:03 am

One of several weak areas for England, but Cole is clearly the best pick at the moment. He does not dominate, but is ok. We will need him to improve, or someone else to come forth in time for 2015. I am sure he will keep improving, but he does not give me confidence.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:13 am

Its hard to really judge Cole tbf. He hasnt kicked on to be as great a player as he perhaps looked like he could be when he burst on to the scene, but hes plenty young enough to learn, improve, and get fitter and stronger still.
England havent dominated in the scrum as much as they used to, but I think we got spoilt into just assuming that any England prop would automaticaly be the best in the world. Cole certainly hasnt struggled, and has been part of inconsistent and patchy front rows often with serious problems at LH and sometimes Hooker too. In general it hasnt been him shipping the penalties, and Englands scrum is still pretty solid on the whole when he plays.


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Post by hugehandoff Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:16 am

Peter...pretty fair assessment. In Lions pecking order Adam Jones would be 1. Cole would be down at 3 or 4 in the pecking order? That is not to say he would let anyone down, but just a reflection of where he currently is.

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Post by Geordie Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:23 am

Dan Cole...

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Post by Mr Bounce Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:05 pm

Thing is a lot of people were writing Stevens off after his World Cup experiences. However, his preferred position is tighthead, yet he was almost constantly played on the LH side, where he is not at his best.

He is far more comfortable at TH than LH, and should be the bench prop IMO. If Cole gets injured it's unlikely that anyone else will be considered as the starter. Cole is nailed on for me.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:29 pm

Dont entirely disagree with you there Mr. Stevens could be viewed as a squad/bench option ahead of PDJ. I suspect they will want one of Sheridan or him in the EPS if not matchday squads. He did look really good following his comeback up untill England got hold of him.

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Post by Ozzy3213 Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:19 pm

PDJ
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Post by bathmad Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:15 pm

Stevens' scrummaging needs some serious work. He got dismantled at 3 in the world cup, and hasn't been playing well for Sarries there either.
Someone give him some Charlie to perk him up a bit.

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Post by George Carlin Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:18 pm

You have some quality at loosehead with Corbs and Cole is still probably the best option on the other side but he will have to get his head straight and forget that he got his backside handed to him by Chunk in the WC.
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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:38 pm

bathmad wrote:Stevens' scrummaging needs some serious work. He got dismantled at 3 in the world cup, and hasn't been playing well for Sarries there either.
Someone give him some Charlie to perk him up a bit.
Ouch Yikes

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Post by B91212 Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:15 pm

Another vote for Cole. Solid enough in the set piece but wish he would offer a bit more in the loose. Seems to put in his share of tackles but can give away the odd penalty. Just wish he carried more, he's a big guy, would suck some defenders in stopping him.

I know it could be Saints bias from me but PDJ could be pushing Stevens clsoe for the bench spot, been impressed with him this year in the loose and he's started games on either side of the scrum and been solid enough each time.

Agree with others though, whilst there are some solid options in the number 3 shirt we don't have a top class option.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Cole is clearly the best pick at the moment. He does not dominate, but is ok.

Has done very well this season. Has taken over a chunk of the starting duties due to his good form and handled Tiny comfortabley in the midlands derby. His scrummaging is exceptionally good but he could do with tightening up his loose play. Considering he's only 24 (and props mature around 28) he's a very good player.

In Lions pecking order Adam Jones would be 1. Cole would be down at 3 or 4 in the pecking order?

Jones is out in front with one of Cole, Ross or Murray likely to be his back up. Not much to choose from with Cole, Ross and Murray though.

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Post by yappysnap Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:54 pm

I always get the feeling Cole is being hampered by the players beside him. And the penalties he does give away usually seem to be very silly, almost like he's trying to be sneaky but not doing well enough, I guess this'll come with age and still he's our best option by a fair distance.

If he could just add a bit more round the park he'd be great.

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Post by B91212 Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:01 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Cole is clearly the best pick at the moment. He does not dominate, but is ok.

Has done very well this season. Has taken over a chunk of the starting duties due to his good form and handled Tiny comfortabley in the midlands derby. His scrummaging is exceptionally good but he could do with tightening up his loose play. Considering he's only 24 (and props mature around 28) he's a very good player.

In Lions pecking order Adam Jones would be 1. Cole would be down at 3 or 4 in the pecking order?

Jones is out in front with one of Cole, Ross or Murray likely to be his back up. Not much to choose from with Cole, Ross and Murray though.
For me I would go Jones, Ross, Cole and then Murray in that order. I would say Ross and Cole are about equally solid in the scrum but Ross offers just a little more around the park based on the last year (a massive improvement in that area of his game). Murray is the best of all 4 in the scrum but offers next to nothing in the loose.

Do agree though at 24 Cole still has plenty of time and will progress into a top class number 3 (training with Castro and White will always help too).

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Post by robshaw4england Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:56 pm

has to be Dan Cole. however i'm hoping over the next couple of years a stand out tighthead will emerge, Cole doesn't quite do it for me.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:57 pm

It is easy to forget just how young Cole is still. Could easily go to another 2 world cups yet.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:41 pm

B91212 we're starting to see more carrying from him this season. When he first came on the scene he made lots of barn storming runs but was a little weak in the scrum. It's swung the other way now where he needs to get back involved more in the loose but his scrummaging is top class.

And the penalties he does give away usually seem to be very silly

He was a number 8 before converting quite late on. Sometimes I think he still believes himself to be a backrower rather than a prop and he tries to get away with things he maybe should leave. Again something that he is improving on this season. Though Cockers has apparently adopted a policy of not competing in the Leicester half to try and minimise the oppositions shots at goal.

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Post by B91212 Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:04 pm

Never knew he used to be an 8. It's a shame he has lost some of his carrying ability in the loose, although the good thing is that he has now got the basics for his postion right and hopefully will regain some more of that previous ability in the loose. As a stated in my earlier post, I do think he will go on to be a top international player. As a side note I used to work with a guy in the UK who had played for Oakham, remember him telling me about 5 years ago to watch for a young TH who would make the England team in the next few years (the guy himself used to play TH for Oakham in his younger days).

formerly known as Sam wrote:Though Cockers has apparently adopted a policy of not competing in the Leicester half to try and minimise the oppositions shots at goal.
That's an interesting tactic, almost as though saying we will wait for you to make a mistake when your in our half. Can see it working against most teams in the AP but can't imagine the Leinster's and Toulouse's messing up too often.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:24 pm

That's an interesting tactic, almost as though saying we will wait for you to make a mistake when your in our half. Can see it working against most teams in the AP but can't imagine the Leinster's and Toulouse's messing up too often

It's a dangerous tactic but if the other side are infringing more regularly and the ref is aware that you aren't, especially in your own half. It may help you get the 50/50 calls, not worked for us reliabley though. Look at the game away to Clermont, we gave away no easy shots (Manu tackle aside) but Parra was magnificent with the boot and Rolland gave all the 50/50 calls against us (with the crowd very much behind the home team that's not a suprise).

Check out the Cole try vs Gloucester in the LV Cup if you can, a really good angle and run from the big man. We just need to see that a little more. Then again if he's buried deep in the contact area maybe he doesn't have the opportunity.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:08 pm

I'd go Cole but would be equally happy with PDJ who seems to improving weekly for Saints.

I like the idea of partnering Hartley with his club teammate but I'm a big fan of Cole.

I don't think I'd have Stevens involved tbh, his scrummaging needs serious work

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Post by Driver Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:37 pm

I'd go PDJ has come on leaps and bounds at Saint's and offers a bit more round the park than Cole. I think picking Dan Cole is a step backwards in the sense that you'd just be trying to grind out a win and bully the opposition pack.
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