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Tomic vs Federer - A comparison

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CaledonianCraig
Josiah Maiestas
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Post by invisiblecoolers Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:12 pm

A Decade back in 2001, a young [19yr old] inspirational tennis player beat his idol who that time was considered the greatest of all time, yea I am talking about Roger Federer vs Pete Sampras Wimbledon 2001 4th round match.

Now we have the best rising star [19 years of age] taking on his idol[considered as the greatest player of all time] on the 4th round , can he do what Roger did?

If Tomic do happen to beat Roger Federer it would be an incredible feat, considering we have lack of young talents Tomic arrival would be a massive welcome among tennis fans.

Looking at the possibility of the upset

Tomic took a set of Roger Federer last year when they squared off in the grass for the Davis Cup tie, thats an incredible feat for the youngster, Tomic certainly seems to have bettered his game in the mean time, but on the other hand Roger is on a mission, 23 game winning streak and he is not going to lie down for a kill.

My predictions Roger in 3 , but would be happy if Tomic gives a fight.

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Post by Tenez Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:15 pm

I am afraid IC, but they are miles apart. You have a great champion on one side taking his destinity in his own hands, playing sublime tennis and you have a retirever, gutless shotmaker on the other but who thanks to his fitness will probably grab a slam or 3. Hopefully no more!

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Post by Simple_Analyst Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:20 pm

Federer is Tomic's idol? The boy must aim higher than that.

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Post by invisiblecoolers Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:41 pm

@ Tenez, yea they have contrasting styles and strange Tomic has a retrieve game when his idol is known for aggressive game.

@SA, Very Happy , the boy choose the greatest player in the history of the game as his idol what can he aim higher? The GOD?

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Post by Jahu Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:12 am

SA is right, Tomic should aim for arse scratching idols, who abuse Hotel chairs.
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Post by bogbrush Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:04 am

It's depressing that what passes for the next generation (and boy, does it look thin) seems to be led by such a pusher.

I think post-Fed I'll be passing for a while until somebody comes along with a game that thrills and surprises. This large scale version of table tennis is just too repetitive. Without player preference there's not a lot to turn up for.
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Post by Tenez Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:25 am

hear hear. Sadly cause they are some great talents...but talent is irrelevant nowadays.



Yesterday match between Dolgo and Tomic just proved it. Some don't believe me but it was so obvious yesterday.

A soft sliced BH and a push FH beat Dolgo's electric game.

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Post by Tenez Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:29 am

Monfils out...thanks for that. Another pusher who was hoping Kukush would tire but his extra running undid him at the end.

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Post by Tenez Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:31 am

Murray weight of shot coudl trouble Djoko maybe? He seems to hit the ball harder..though that's easy to do when you know you'll get some free points from your opponent...but doing it v the top players....that's where Murray failed in teh past.

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Post by break_in_the_fifth Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:57 am

I guess in the first two sets Dolgo must have been amazing and Tomic just pushing? He played some good winners later on at key moments.

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Post by Guest Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:07 am

bogbrush wrote:It's depressing that what passes for the next generation (and boy, does it look thin) seems to be led by such a pusher.

I think post-Fed I'll be passing for a while until somebody comes along with a game that thrills and surprises. This large scale version of table tennis is just too repetitive. Without player preference there's not a lot to turn up for.
It had been said that technology was ruining professional swimming with the development of low water resistant synthetic fabric swimwear. These developed into full body swimsuits that moulded the body into the most "water" dynamic shape, with strong elasticity for limb recovery (energy recovery), and low water resistant surfaces. Records started falling, which turned into a flood with thousands of records being broken.

People began to wonder whether winning was due to ability or due to technology such was the difference these suits made. Swimmers from "poorer" nations began to complain that they couldn't afford these suits, that an injustice had developed within the sport. Swimmers that were not sponsored by these suit producing companies also complained that they had difficulty accessing the latest suits - which had to be individually "tailored" / moulded to the body dimensions.

At swimming meets most of the talk was on who was wearing what, and whether those that were wearing the latest suits from the laboratories had a significant advantage over those in the older first or second generation "suits". A form of "swimsuit warfare" developed. On a lighter note, suit malfunctions produced amusement at some of the meetings.

Eventually FINA banned the lot of them. It was said that this would ruin a new high technology industry, but the evidence was incontrovertible that the balance had shifted too far over towards technology from what was being called the natural swimming talent.

Could something similar be happening within tennis?

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Post by bogbrush Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:05 am

I think you're right, although whereas swimming is a 'pure' sport ( being simply who can move through water the fastest), tennis is a contrived game. That does suggest that contrivance is more alien to swimming than tennis.
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Post by newballs Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:06 am

Could something similar be happening within tennis?

Not unless they change the arena or flood it with water?



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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:14 am

If Dolgopolov was given so many free and easy wildcards like Tomic got at his age, then i'd imagine this Tomic hype would be non existant. Bernard's struggles with a poor Verdasco in round 1 and out of form Dolgo tells me he's not good enough to dominate any match.
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Post by Guest Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:16 am

McEnroe has descibed todays game as ping-pong tennis. This suggests that baseline top spun power hitting dominates. Presumably a moderately to high bouncing ball enables the top spin to be applied (with all the changes in racket technology increasing the ease and accuracy of the shot, plus the extent of the spin), whilst a low bouncing skidding ball makes the shot more difficult.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:24 am

McEnroe has descibed todays game as ping-pong tennis. This suggests that baseline top spun power hitting dominates.
Won't be getting any christmas cards from the Spanish Davis Cup team then.
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Post by newballs Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:29 am

Nore Staat wrote:McEnroe has descibed todays game as ping-pong tennis. This suggests that baseline top spun power hitting dominates. Presumably a moderately to high bouncing ball enables the top spin to be applied (with all the changes in racket technology increasing the ease and accuracy of the shot, plus the extent of the spin), whilst a low bouncing skidding ball makes the shot more difficult.

Absolutely. Would be nigh on impossible for the likes of McEnroe and Leconte to compete in today's tennis circuit given the weight of shot and power players generate off both wings.

That's why dolgo is a breath of fresh air as he provides something different from the high paced slug-fest that predominates nowadays.

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Post by bogbrush Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:07 pm

It baffles me that they aren't trying to make the game receptive to a new McEnroe. The best periods of the game were when all styles had a fighting chance, the current game is akin to Wimbledon in the late 90's - unbalanced. Currently we don't get enough conflicts between styles.
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Post by Tenez Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:08 pm

Yes. Again when you see a talent like Llodra being canon fodder for an athletic baseliner, it's painful to watch.

Playing with 100% natural gut he has no choice but to take the ball early and flat to create pace and of course play close t net and lines...like tennis was in the 90s. Sending Murray in teh trameline is actually like shooting himself in the foot. Murray has plenty of time to get there and hammer a curvy shot dipping past him.

They could actually alter the balls by making them less furry and a harder rubber core would allow less biting from those new strings and make the shots riskier. The babolat at the FO, unknowingly I believe, came to that. Ball manufactirers should work on it. That woudl not affect the string manufacturers.

When McEnroe says it's pingpong tennis, heis right....the fact that the table is as big as a court makes the game very easy for those who are ready to cover the miles!

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:07 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC75aU47GRk

The sound going through Tomic's ears after the crushing defeat tomorrow. Smile
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Post by invisiblecoolers Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:33 pm

Ping Pong in my view have to be played more aggressive than Tennis, however I play pingpong a bit like Nadal way and get hammered by aggressive players.

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Post by Jahu Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:50 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC75aU47GRk

The sound going through Tomic's ears after the crushing defeat tomorrow. Smile
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:35 pm

Bernard Tomic seems to be coming in for a heck of a lot of stick. Personally, I welcome him onto the tennis scene. He has a different style and that alone is a plus as like all sports, tennis thrives on a variety of styles and skills. As I have said elsewhere I can only see a straight sets win for Federer in their match but it will be interesting to see how the pair match up and it will tell us what the calibre of the up and coming players are.
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Post by laverfan Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:47 pm

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Tomic took a set of Roger Federer last year when they squared off in the grass for the Davis Cup tie, thats an incredible feat for the youngster, Tomic certainly seems to have bettered his game in the mean time, but on the other hand Roger is on a mission, 23 game winning streak and he is not going to lie down for a kill.

The Grass for DC was an abject apology to Wimbledon with copious dubious line calls and no HE. And Federer had just flow in and had two days, but played three matches and motivated Stan to deliver the killer blow.

Federer will start losing eventually earlier, but right now, based on a 5-setter with Dolgo, I would say Federer in 4.

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Post by Guest Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:35 pm

Whatever we might say about the style of the modern tennis player, it seems clear from his performances so far that Tomic is likely to be the next "big thing" in tennis - to be joining the top 4 / top 8 in one or two years time perhaps. Raonic is another "prospect" but is two years older than Tomic (who is 19 and three months), has already a "worse" record in the Grand Slams than Tomic and is injury prone.

Tomic won the 2008 AO Boys Junior title aged 15yrs and three months, and the 2009 USO Junior title aged 16 years.


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Post by newballs Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:43 pm

NS Raonic was really disappointing against Hewitt and I guess injuries haven't helped.

Tomic can somehow win without actually seemingly playing that well and that's what makes him look like he's going to be the next big thing.

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Post by Guest Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:47 pm

Hi newballs - he seems to be resilient.

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Post by laverfan Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:29 am

Last year he reached the W QF, but USO 2011 was disappointing. He seems to do well in front of his 'home' crowd. He also lead Nadal 4-1 in the second set at AO 2011. A couple of hours and we will know.

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Post by invisiblecoolers Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:58 am

If Federer plays casual tennis I wont be surprised to see anupset, otherwise all scenario Fed to win, but i do expect a pretty damn good fight from Tomic, he is motivated to play Fed and will not let the chance go begging.

Fed got a tough draw
Karlovic last round
Tomic this round
Del Potro next
Rafa Nex after
and Djokovic/Murray in Finals.

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Post by laverfan Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:40 am

The first two sets have been sublime so far. Tomic has quite a bit of work to do.

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Post by invisiblecoolers Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:26 am

easy win in the end.

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Post by Simple_Analyst Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:33 am

Yes you were a little too worried. Should have saved that for Federer Del Potro.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:46 am

Interesting to hear so many Fed fans ridicule Tomic style of play in the Dolgopolov match. I wonder how they feel as Federer says he watched it all and found it enthralling or words to that effect and even hinted he would have enjoyed a similar type match today. Hmm...interesting.
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Post by gboycottnut Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:14 am

Never knew that for a retriever type of tennis player, Tomic's idol is Federer. I would have thought that Tomic's idol would be someone like Andy Murray as both play very similar styles of game on a tennis court and both are physically the same size and build.

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Post by Jahu Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:22 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Interesting to hear so many Fed fans ridicule Tomic style of play in the Dolgopolov match. I wonder how they feel as Federer says he watched it all and found it enthralling or words to that effect and even hinted he would have enjoyed a similar type match today. Hmm...interesting.

What did you expect Fed to say? A couple teens slicing & dicing to death?
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Post by Guest Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:28 pm

If Tomic can improve his movement and second serve and hit more aggressively (which he'll need to do against the top players - I don't think the slicing thing works so well against them because of their excellent footwork, except perhaps against Novak when it is used sparingly to disrupt his rythmn) he will go a long way.

I know that sounds like a lot but he is only 19 and has a lot of potential for improvement.

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Post by invisiblecoolers Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:29 pm

Simple_Analyst wrote:Yes you were a little too worried. Should have saved that for Federer Del Potro.

Del Boy is my fav player and i do route for him, Its funny to say I was worried for Fed-Tomic match, I indeed would a loved an upset and rise of Tomic, unlike you I love Tennis more than worshipping one particular player in Sampras.

Del Boy missed an unique achivement in USO 2009, i.e Royal Flush, he was said to meet Murray in Quarters but murray lost to Cilic, otherwise it would have been no.3 in quarters, no.2 and No.1 in semi's and finals.
Now he meets no.3 in quarters and likely to meet no.2 in semi's and again likely to meet no.1 in finals, so who knows he could make the royal flush this time around. I did predict him along with Tsonga as the wolf pacs i hunter's series.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:35 pm

Jahu wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Interesting to hear so many Fed fans ridicule Tomic style of play in the Dolgopolov match. I wonder how they feel as Federer says he watched it all and found it enthralling or words to that effect and even hinted he would have enjoyed a similar type match today. Hmm...interesting.

What did you expect Fed to say? A couple teens slicing & dicing to death?

No but he didn't need to go into so much detail about how much he really enjoyed it if he really never which is sure to indicate he did enjoy the match. If he didn't he would have just been diplomatic and said it was a different/interesting match and quickly moved on which he didn't.
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Post by Tenez Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:43 pm

emancipator wrote:If Tomic can improve his movement and second serve and hit more aggressively (which he'll need to do against the top players - I don't think the slicing thing works so well against them because of their excellent footwork, except perhaps against Novak when it is used sparingly to disrupt his rythmn) he will go a long way.

I know that sounds like a lot but he is only 19 and has a lot of potential for improvement.

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Yes but the problem Tomic will have is the same as Murray. Fine going for his shots versus a player like Federer cause he knows he cannot slice his way to victory...but will he be able to produce those key winners when it matters? Today he failed on the key points when he tried to pull winners and while I was watching it reminded me Murray. If attacking is not his typical style, he might find it difficult to produce those key winners when needed? He is not the kind of player who takes his destinity in his own hands. Even though he was hitting harder, he was just happy to trade BHs with Fed hoping for a mistake.

THis is why he is not going to be the kind of players I will be supporting. I am sure he will win slams though but hopefully not many cause this is not positive tennis.

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Post by Guest Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:50 pm

I agree Tenez. Those are the same reservations that I have. He does seem a natural pusher. However, Murray was content for many years to play his defensive game and now it is seemingly too late for him to change that at the crucial junctures in matches when it matters most; Tomic, I suppose, is still young enough to address those issues, but he needs to start making consistent changes sooner rather than later.

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Post by break_in_the_fifth Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:53 pm

If he is too much of a pusher at this stage then part of him changing his game to be more attacking will involve him performing less well and losing some of the time as his game adjusts. That can't be easy to do with that much media attention all the time.

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Post by bogbrush Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:59 pm

I think he showed something with the forehand that I've never seen from Murray. He needs variety but theres no time to lose in developing a more assertive game.
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Post by break_in_the_fifth Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:02 pm

His forehand was better than I expected given he was being labelled a pusher but he was also spraying more than he should have been sometimes at important times. Whether that was down to fatigue or being taken out of his default game style I don't know.

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Post by Guest Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:29 pm

break_in_the_fifth wrote:If he is too much of a pusher at this stage then part of him changing his game to be more attacking will involve him performing less well and losing some of the time as his game adjusts. That can't be easy to do with that much media attention all the time.

That's a good point. I think part of what held Andy back was the fact that his natural game was good enough to beat just about everyone. He was in his comfort zone and having reasonable success but probably the risk to benefit ratio of adopting a more assertive game in earlier rounds was considered too much.

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Post by Tenez Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:33 pm

bogbrush wrote:I think he showed something with the forehand that I've never seen from Murray. He needs variety but theres no time to lose in developing a more assertive game.

Yes he has a natural flat FH...but Murray has it when he wants too. It's just prroducing them when it matters the problem. But it certainly a shot that will come more naturally to him than Murray from what I could see.

I think you are born an attacking player or a defending one. Impossible to chance that I feel. If Murray and Tomic can win defending without taking risk, they will.

Also, it's important to note that Tomic was more agressive today cause Federer was not rushing Tomic as much Dolgo. Dolgo has a faster, more difficult pace to handle (either very fast FHs or very tricky slices) which Tomic did his best to slow down with heavy slices of hos own.

I think when faced v Raonic, Harrison or even Dimitrov, he will trurn back into his slicing game with the odd attcking shot.

Early days of course but that's how I see it.

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Post by droogle Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:24 pm

I think Tomic has some tricks up his sleeve. VS Dolgo when occassionally he did hit a blistering flat forehand, it looked spontaneous, confident and plain easy. Not like Murray where you see the tightness.

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Post by invisiblecoolers Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:41 pm

The other aspect thats so impressive about Tomic is his self confidence, its not over confidence which at times happens with Murray.

The other interesting thing is he is willing to adapt and change and still very young to make the changes, he has a great idol and I wont be surprised if he brings some of his game into him slowly.

Anyways Tomic rise is needed for the tennis which lacks post youngsters rising above.

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Post by bogbrush Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:55 pm

Who's his coach? Please say its not his Dad.
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Post by invisiblecoolers Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:12 pm

@ BB, hahahaha , its not his uncle or mom either Very Happy

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Tomic vs Federer - A comparison Empty Re: Tomic vs Federer - A comparison

Post by Josiah Maiestas Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:25 pm

Very very easy for the Swiss, I guess Tomic was too deflated after losing 1st set and playing 14 sets before the match. Tomic needs to learn how to move horizontally before he can challenge the top players.
Josiah Maiestas
Josiah Maiestas

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Tomic vs Federer - A comparison Empty Re: Tomic vs Federer - A comparison

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