England Squad News - Updated 07/02/12

07/02/12

Again from the RFU's Twitter:

SQUAD UPDATE: Attwood, Banahan, Clark, K. Dickson, Flood, Mears, Sharples & Waldrom all return to their clubs this w/e

Flood's obviously the big one, meaning we are unlikely to see changes in the 10, 12, 13 or 21 shirt this weekend. Dickson leaves the squad as his brother returns to fitness and Sharples, who many feel deserves a chance, also returns to his club.

~~~~~

From the RFU's Twitter:

Scrum half Lee Dickson fractured metacarpal in his left hand at Murrayfield so Quins' Karl Dickson is called up as cover

and

Fly half Toby Flood also returns in place of Alex Goode but Tom Wood, Manu Tuilagi and Courtney Lawes remain at their clubs

~~~~

So we'll probably see Simpson take to the bench in place of Lee Dickson. Not sure if Flood will be restored to the starting line-up, but expect to see him in the 22. I would imagine this would mean Turner-Hall missing out.

Gutted for Lee.

The return of Flood brings experience to the side.

That is a real shame for Lee Dickson. only played 20 odd minutes aswell.

Full article now up:

http://www.rfu.com/News/2012/February/NewsArticles/050212_Squad_update_Dickson.aspx

i think flood will make a massive difference

good to see flood is back, would have liked to have seen lawes and Tuilagi come back as well though.

Joe Simpson on the bench ain't that bad. His pace could be quite useful against the slow Italians.

How long does a metacarpal take to mend? I thought Dickson did well and would like to have seen him start against Italy

Guessing not too long, about a month or so? I'm not an expert though.

Did anyone watch the Tigers game? How did Flood play?

Looking at the match details they won 24-13, but they didn't score any points in the half hour Flood was on for.

I suspect a bench place would be the more prudent approach to getting the best out of him for the tournament.

Yea theres no need to rush him in against Italy. Hodgson should do a decent job until he comes on.

Actually he would be a good option on the bench as he plays differently to Hodgson. I am tempted to say we should start Brown with Foden or Sharples on the bench. Or start Sharples instead of Strettle. What's the point of having him in the squad if we don't see if he can step up.

Also, just out of interest, when did Foden last play 9?

I think Foden last played scrum half about 5 years ago, when he was still at Sale. He was a functional, but not outstanding 9. But was much younger, too.

He came off the bench for his first English cap at 9. I think it was against Italy. He was terrible but it was only about 10mins

Foden played 9 in his first season with the Saints rotating with Dickson at 9 after they both arrived the same summer. When Dickson started he played FB and then the following week would play 9 whilst Dickson dropped to the bench. Then he finally realised what everyone else knew, he could either be an adequate club scrum half or an international standard 15 so he moved to full back for good. Mallinder always started with him at 15 and Dickson at 9 for the big games anyway.

Gutted for Dickson, wanted him to start against Italy to inject some speed into the English play. Youngs is a great player on his day but is so off form at the moment - if Dickson was fit and Care hadn't been a total plank I wouldn't have had Youngs in my 22 on current form. As it now stands I would much rather he start than Simpson, who I don't rate too highly.

Shame Lawes and Tuilagi are still missing - they are big loses who I think will both make a very positive impact when they return. Still think Barritt & Tuilagi will make a formidable center partnership when they have played a few games together as well, more so after Barritt's display on Saturday.

I like the idea of Barritt and Tuilagi in the centres, but do they have the distributional skills to unleash our back three quickly when needed? I think they'll be fine attacking with the ball and defending, but I'm not sure if the space is out wide whether they'll be able to unleash our strike-runners out wide.

Still, it's the best option we've got in my opinion, and we should definitely try it for the Wales game - should Tuilagi have recovered by then. Farrell on the bench covering 10, 12 and 13.

Real shame for Dickson, thought he looked good and tenacious when he came on. I see his brother has been called up to replace him; how good is he? Bit of an odd selection feel, would rather Spencer got the nod to be honest.
Looking forward to a few of these injuries subsiding, because I think if you factor in players such as Tuiliagi, Wood, Lawes and Flood, England's starting squad could suddenly look very tasty, off of the back of some of the saturday performances.

bluestonevedder wrote:Real shame for Dickson, thought he looked good and tenacious when he came on. I see his brother has been called up to replace him; how good is he? Bit of an odd selection feel, would rather Spencer got the nod to be honest.
Looking forward to a few of these injuries subsiding, because I think if you factor in players such as Tuiliagi, Wood, Lawes and Flood, England's starting squad could suddenly look very tasty, off of the back of some of the saturday performances.

As was said when I had a hissy fit about Banahan being called up, it's just cover for injuries in training- chances are he won't be in the 22

Any news on Barrit?

Flood offers all sorts of possibilities, but they may choose to take another opportunity to look at Farrel.
Hodgson was quite resoanble, if limited.

Yeh, I just thought it might have been good exposure for Spencer to spend some time with the EPS, rather than calling on a older player who won't get the caps...? Ah well.

bluestonevedder wrote:Yeh, I just thought it might have been good exposure for Spencer to spend some time with the EPS, rather than calling on a older player who won't get the caps...? Ah well.

Yeah but then for the short training sessions do you really need to have to explain to someone were the toilets are whta the tea rota is? Bahanan can dive straight in and get things going.

Hes also still young himself, Lancaster hasnt written all these guys off permanently

Where's all this talk of Banahan coming from?? Has he been brought back in?

bluestonevedder wrote:Where's all this talk of Banahan coming from?? Has he been brought back in?

Umm I think hes refering to a few weeks ago?

No panic! He was brought in last week to cover for Trinder but they sent him back to Bath. I know it's a scary thought but we are safe for now...

BBC Sport news ticker says Lee Dickson has been passed fit to play for England this weekend!

Mixed emotions for Karl, I'm sure.

and bluestonevedder

Karl Dickson is excellent, and when fit has arguably outplayed Care for Quins this season. Conor O'Shea has said that he rates him as one of the top 5 scrum halves in the country. He has only just come back from a 2 month injury though so it was an odd choice.

thomh wrote:BBC Sport news ticker says Lee Dickson has been passed fit to play for England this weekend!

Mixed emotions for Karl, I'm sure.

Good news.

ChequeredJersey wrote:No panic! He was brought in last week to cover for Trinder but they sent him back to Bath. I know it's a scary thought but we are safe for now...

Haha, thanks god!

thomh wrote:and bluestonevedder

Karl Dickson is excellent, and when fit has arguably outplayed Care for Quins this season. Conor O'Shea has said that he rates him as one of the top 5 scrum halves in the country. He has only just come back from a 2 month injury though so it was an odd choice.

Cheers for the info thomh, I've heard his name but have never seen him play from what I recall. I think it was a feature on O2's recent inside line episode...? that Lee was actually the lesser player in his family!

Did anyone watch the Tigers game? How did Flood play?

He came on in the midst of a snow storm for about 20 mins with Grindal at scrum half. Showed a nice step or two and plenty of willing but minus Harrison at 9 Tigers had lost a bit of their go forward and game was petering out. He was clearly a class above the 4 other 10s that were on show (Staunton, Gopperth and Hodgson) but he was also clearly not fully fit. Personally I think he needs a full game at Tigers (or maybe two) before stepping back into the first team.

hawalsh wrote:Did anyone watch the Tigers game? How did Flood play?

Looking at the match details they won 24-13, but they didn't score any points in the half hour Flood was on for.

I suspect a bench place would be the more prudent approach to getting the best out of him for the tournament.

I think they changes the 9 when flood came on so wasn't getting much quick ball which would explain the lack of points.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Did anyone watch the Tigers game? How did Flood play?

He came on in the midst of a snow storm for about 20 mins with Grindal at scrum half. Showed a nice step or two and plenty of willing but minus Harrison at 9 Tigers had lost a bit of their go forward and game was petering out. He was clearly a class above the 4 other 10s that were on show (Staunton, Gopperth and Hodgson) but he was also clearly not fully fit. Personally I think he needs a full game at Tigers (or maybe two) before stepping back into the first team.

Now Sam....talk about pointing out the bleeding obvious....

I thought he polayed over half an hour? Sure it wasnt a fair chance to assess where he is, but shows hes ready to play a full game is Preistland and Roberts were.

I'd definitely ease Flood back in from the bench - Hodgson and the rest of the 3 quarters didn't really get a chance to do anything other than tackle on Saturday (which Barritt - especially - did a fairly decent job of) so it would be a bit harsh not to allow them another opportunity.

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the forwards. We were outmuscled by the Scots - particularly the backrow I felt. We need to have a look at this Morgan lad, cos if Dowson can't win the collisions against the likes of Rennie, Grey etc. then he's going to get absolutely smashed by the likes of Ferris, O'Brien, Warburton. I can't see where England's explosiveness is going to come from.

I thought he polayed over half an hour?

Didn't seem like he was on for very long at all, though I wasn't watching the clock. The game was dying off and to be honest he didn't get chance to do much ball in hand.

If Hodgson is fit England might as well play him against Italy and save Flood for the games where they will certainly need him (against Wales and France) rather than risk him for a game that will be won up front.

The match report shows he came on in the 53rd minute.

Apparantly Lee Dickson will be fit for the Italy game (according to BBC). Broken hand is 'stable' and no biggy

Sad about Dowson - I think he'd be one of those 'facilitating' type no.8's with the right pack - someone like Owen or Foley - but he was pretty useless on Saturday.

I know who probably would have made a difference - but it seems we cant mention his name anymore.....

Cipriani?

HammerofThunor wrote:Cipriani?

At number 8?



I can think of quite a few difference he wouldve made, including Dan Parks being the hero for scoring a charge down try.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Cipriani?

At number 8?



I can think of quite a few difference he wouldve made, including Dan Parks being the hero for scoring a charge down try.

And given the fact that Hodgson was targeted (and did very well, 9 tackles no misses) Cips would be even more targeted and the extra breaks made by the 9 extra missed tackles would have given the Scots enough time to learn to make the last pass. Barritt and Foden may be good cover defenders but imagine Denton, Gray and Lamont running head on at Cipriani...

espn has it that Flood wont play due to a lack of gametime ( Jamie Roberts?) and that Morgan will probably start.
They are having an inter-squad full on match to give fringe players a chance to shine, so it appears hes opened minded about other changes too.

If hes not playing Flood, his reserve SH has a broken hand ( so preseumably woint play in that and wouldnt want to be risked for 80 minutes) and Tuilagi+ Wood arent fit yet then I dont really see much point in further tinkering with the first 15 for now. Give them a chance to settle into roles and maybe play with some organisation.

The match report shows he came on in the 53rd minute..

As I said I wasn't clock watching it could have been. I just got the impression from watching it that he wasn't on for very long but that could have just been Grindal's inability to pass the ball to the 10 making it tough for Flood to make an impact.

Incidentally if it's the BBC match report it may well be jibberish, last week against Quinns they couldn't even get the try scorers correct.

PSW
Largely agree (assuming Flood isn't going to play), although I might look to make a couple of changes on the bench so we have a bit more variety to add to the team if needed.

Front row had a solid game against Scotland, and is probably the notional first choice anyway, so stays as is. Stevens is a good option for the bench, and Webber didn't get a chance so it would be harsh to drop him

Second row - Botha had a mixed game, prominent in the loose but made a few obvious errors. Deserves another go.
Palmer was unspectacular but did little wrong. Parling didn't really shine off the bench (although in his defence, that was at a time when England had little ball) and so hasn't really forced his way into the XV.

Back row - Croft and Robshaw were OK (no better than that), but Dowson just looked a bit lightweight for an 8. Morgan's a big lump and I'd like to see how he goes (Dowson dropping to the bench because of his versatility).

SH - Youngs had a fairly shocking game really, and is probably lucky with Dickson's injury (as although the report is he's fit, surely it would be wise to give him a couple of weeks off for the bone to meld). Simpson on the bench could be useful to change the dynamic later in the game.

FH - Hodgson did OK, although there was too much emphasis on kicking (not just, or even mainly, from CH), and I would like to see him get the ball to Barritt, the back 3 and a powerful carrying forward (Morgan?) more often. Farrell covers 10 from 12, so there is no need for bench cover.

Centres - Barritt had a very solid game in defence, and nearly sprung our one meaningful counter-attack (harshly called back for a forward pass). Want to see him carrying into the midfield more.
Farrell keeps his spot on the basis of goal kicking in Flood's absence. Yet to be convinced that he's really got 'it'.
Not overly convinced by the balance of the midfield, but it's an area where we are undermined by injuries.
Would like to see a genuine 13 on the bench, but am not sure who we have (fit) in the EPS and Saxons squads. JT-H was just too much of a like-for-like replacement.

Back 3 - Possibility of bringing Sharples in rather than Strettle to add a kicking option, but the guys that played against Scotland did OK with limited opportunities. If Strettle starts, I'd perhaps be tempted to have Sharples on the bench instead of Brown, to add a greater threat.

Armchairexpert wrote:How long does a metacarpal take to mend? I thought Dickson did well and would like to have seen him start against Italy

Really depends on the severity of the injury and where it is. The metacarpals are the finger bones just inside the hand right before the knuckle. If severely broken or broken at a joint, he would have been in fairly obvious pain and would have been limited. It is not uncommon to have a stress fracture of these bones and not even think fracture, just think its bruising. A person can be virtually completely functional with a stress fracture of these bones if not near a joint. Since Dickson has been given approval to play, we can assume there was some swelling and bruising, but no serious injury.

doctor_grey wrote:Really depends on the severity of the injury and where it is. The metacarpals are the finger bones just inside the hand right before the knuckle. If severely broken or broken at a joint, he would have been in fairly obvious pain and would have been limited. It is not uncommon to have a stress fracture of these bones and not even think fracture, just think its bruising. A person can be virtually completely functional with a stress fracture of these bones if not near a joint. Since Dickson has been given approval to play, we can assume there was some swelling and bruising, but no serious injury.

Doctor Grey, have you ever considered becoming a rugby team doctor?

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Cipriani?

At number 8?



I can think of quite a few difference he wouldve made, including Dan Parks being the hero for scoring a charge down try.

And given the fact that Hodgson was targeted (and did very well, 9 tackles no misses) Cips would be even more targeted and the extra breaks made by the 9 extra missed tackles would have given the Scots enough time to learn to make the last pass. Barritt and Foden may be good cover defenders but imagine Denton, Gray and Lamont running head on at Cipriani...

Exactly, Hodgson cannot defend supposedly......

I think Hodgson gets a lot of criticism. He did score the winning try after all.

I am. For my local club and for my kid's age group teams. My boys claim I give them the worst care anywhere. "two minutes of ice and get back in there"

haha, a bit of the magic sponge too! that always worked a treat. what about for a professional team? I've always imagined that is such a cool job, but is it a certain specialism?