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The Ultimate Warrior

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The Ultimate Warrior Empty The Ultimate Warrior

Post by ADMIN Wed 23 Mar 2011, 8:00 am

For me the Ultimate Warrior was what made wrestling as a child. In a world of cartoon characters like Savage and Hogan he surpassed them all.

Where would you rate him in the all time greats (if at all)?

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Post by Kay Fabe Wed 23 Mar 2011, 11:15 am

For me he is top 5 along with Rock Hogan Austin and Savage

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Post by K-PX0110 Wed 23 Mar 2011, 11:31 am

Wouldn't put him anywhere near the top 20.

Was a flash in the pan who due to the limitations of his character and in ring move set was always going to have a short career.

Would put the likes of:

Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Undertaker
The Rock
SCSA
Kurt Angle
Mr Perfect
Ric Flair
Macho Man Randy Savage
Sting
Chris Benoit
Chris Jericho
Ravishing Rick Rude
Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase
Hulk Hogan
Triple H
Jake The Snake Roberts
British Bulldog
Eddie Guerrero
Rowdy Roddy Piper
Mick Foley
CM Punk
John Cena

All the above (off the top of my head) are/were better wrestlers & entertainers.

The only thing Warrior is memorable for is buying into his own hype and his rambling promos.

Always enjoy watching Summerslam 91 (Hogan & Warrior vs Slaughter, Adnan & Mustapha) as I heard that Vince is on the other side of the curtain when Warrior runs down the aisle at the end of the match waiting to fire him as he tried to hold him to ransom over pay.

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Post by Kay Fabe Wed 23 Mar 2011, 11:36 am

Warrior had a far better moveset and was a million times better than Cena, he could tell a story too, as for flash in the pan? For 2 years he was seen as Hogans equal when Hogan was at his peak, no other got close to that

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Post by crippledtart Wed 23 Mar 2011, 11:40 am

He's nowhere near the greatest ever list.

I loved his act as a kid, but he was a one-dimensional flash in the pan with very little in the way of wrestling skills. And let's be honest, as entertaining as his promos were, they were also absolutely dreadful. His charisma was incredible, but he did very little for business.

He deserves credit for achieving what he did, and I would ignore the things other (bitter) wrestlers and promoters say about him, but he's well below the level of the greatest wrestlers. I think you'd have to be particularly blinkered to put him on a top 10 of all time list.

If you were making a list of the WWF/WWE wrestlers who made the greatest impact, he'd be on that. He was hugely over.

Gaffer, I normally agree with a lot of your posts, but top 5 ever?! Do you seriously rate him higher than Flair, Michaels, Piper and Savage? What is your criteria, other than the fact he was pushed heavily for a couple of years?

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Post by Kay Fabe Wed 23 Mar 2011, 11:47 am

He was the guy who made me watch, I had saw enough of the WWF by the time i caught the Warrior but he is the only one who made me want to watch again and again, 22 years later and im still watching, thats why I Rank him so high, also his match at SummerSlam 89 with Rick Rude showed the range in moveset the guy had

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Post by theundisputedY2D2 Wed 23 Mar 2011, 11:57 am

When I first started watching wrestling as a kid, he was my favourite wrestler. I just got drawn into everything about him, and I ended up as a huge fan of his and detesting Hulk Hogan.

Nowadays, I can see that he wasn't the greatest wrestler or the greatest promo but I'll always be a fan of his. I disregard the stories you hear from ex-wrestlers because there seems to be an undercurrent of jealousy about most of them, and whenever WWE bury him you know that's fuelled by the fact that he took on McMahon and won. The fact that he made his money, got out on his terms and hasn't come crawling back to Vince since then obviously grates with the chairman of WWE.

He'll always be one of my favourite wrestlers ever because of the impact he had on me as a kid, he made me want to watch. I guess you could argue that I have a slightly rose tinted view on things because of this but I think most wrestling fans have something similar.

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Post by crippledtart Wed 23 Mar 2011, 2:32 pm

Yeah I think he's a guy everyone loved as a kid and gets a sense of nostalgia from, but if we distance ourselves we can see that he quite clearly didn't have a lot of talent.

No harm in that either.

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Post by Kay Fabe Wed 23 Mar 2011, 3:02 pm

I'd totally disagree that he didn't have a lot of talent he had two of the best WrestleMania matches, he wasnt a great technician but hd had the build the power the speed and a great connection with the crowd also all the guys he had great famous matches with liked him (Hogan, Savage and Rude) it was only after Hogan was on the payroll again he'd badmouth him

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Post by crippledtart Wed 23 Mar 2011, 3:39 pm

I am guessing we're mostly around the same age, 30ish? How many of us were adults during Warrior's WWF heyday?

It's only because we were children at the time that we consider him significant. The same way we all probably consider Oasis significant in music history because they were the predominant British band of our teens.

The truth is that Warrior was little more than a footnote in wrestling history. He looked great and had charisma and a connection with live crowds, but it did not translate into big money. His legend has grown as a result of having such a short run at the top, and essentially quitting at his peak. Credit to him for being the guy Vince chose to succeed Hogan as the WWF's main act, but that did not work out and did not last.

I don't think he is even close to a genuine list of all-time greats.

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Post by Kay Fabe Wed 23 Mar 2011, 3:57 pm

I would say he left a very big foot print, between 89-91 he was the only guy in the Wrestling business who Vince McMahon considered a genuine equal to Hogan, thats why he main evented 4 of the 5 PPVs that followed SummerSlam 89 which beforehand was unheard of in Hulkamania, his legend grew because unlike many 'greats' he wasn't a sell out

if he doesn't make your list then good for you, I never once said I was the the spokesman for the thread, I said he would make MY top 5.... As in MINE

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Post by Brady12 Wed 23 Mar 2011, 9:38 pm

Good points gaffer agree 100%....

No one made as big an impact in such a short time during the Hogan era... A natural presence, undoubted charisma & sensational look may him such a marketable assest....

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Post by crippledtart Thu 24 Mar 2011, 10:24 am

Sorry gaffer, I was talking about an objective opinion.

If you put him in your top 5 that is your choice, but I was trying to look at it objectively.

Likewise you could say Turner and Hooch is in your top five films of all time, and that would be your prerogative. And that "Everything I do I do It For You" by Bryan Adams was in the top 5 songs of all time; after all, it was number one for 16 weeks. Again, that would be your own personal top five list so it wouldn't be possible to argue. But if we were talking about an objective list, Turner and Hooch isn't on an all time great movie list, "Everything I Do" isn't on an all time great songs list, and the Ultimate Warrior isn't on an all time great wrestlers list.

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Post by Kay Fabe Thu 24 Mar 2011, 11:09 am

Well Davis I'm glad you've decide your opinion is the be all and end all of the forum

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Post by The Dashing One Thu 24 Mar 2011, 11:23 am

To be honest I never cared much for The Warrior - when I was at school everybody was running around the yard pretending they were Warrior or Hogan while I was left on my own being The British Bulldog Sad

It took awhile but I think i'm over it now.

WOOF WOOF.

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Post by Kay Fabe Thu 24 Mar 2011, 11:27 am

I was never a fan of the Bulldog as a singles guy, he had that awesome match with Hart at SummerSlam but for me he'll be best remembered for histeam with Dynamite and teaming with Owen

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Post by ADMIN Thu 24 Mar 2011, 11:30 am

I always remember the background audio of him on the Shockmaster debut.

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Post by Kay Fabe Thu 24 Mar 2011, 11:32 am

"he just fell flat on his ar-se"

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Post by crippledtart Thu 24 Mar 2011, 11:59 am

the-gaffer wrote:Well Davis I'm glad you've decide your opinion is the be all and end all of the forum

Gaffer, the whole point of my last post was that it is not my opinion! The whole point was about using objectivity. By any objective measure Warrior wasn't even close to a greatest ever list.

My favourite band is The Smiths but I would never claim they were the best band of all time. They're just my personal favourite. I could tell you why I think they were great but I wouldn't argue that they were the greatest ever.

I'm not going to try and explain this any further!

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Post by Guest Thu 24 Mar 2011, 12:10 pm

The Smiths are awesome though!

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Post by Kay Fabe Thu 24 Mar 2011, 12:17 pm

Your whole point wasnt about using objectivity and fine well you know with your ridiculous urs of Turner and Hooch to ridicule my opinion, nice try though

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Post by ADMIN Thu 24 Mar 2011, 12:21 pm

The Smiths would be in my top five bands as well!
Turner & Hooch though wouldnt be in my movie list, I preferred K-9.

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Post by Kay Fabe Thu 24 Mar 2011, 12:29 pm

I love pointless analogies when trying to ridicule someones point though, Genius!

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Post by crippledtart Thu 24 Mar 2011, 4:07 pm

Can I get this right then...

The top five things of all time are:
1) Turner & Hooch
2) Everything I Do I Do It For You
3) Ultimate Warrior
4) The Smiths
5) K-9

Right?

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Post by Kay Fabe Thu 24 Mar 2011, 6:42 pm

Why are you asking instead of just telling us

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Post by Shifty Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:36 pm

People can try to re-write history all they like but in reality in the 90's there were 2 superstars in the World they were Warrior and Hulk Hogan.
No one else got anywhere near them on the World stage, Rick Flair was a big fish in a small pond nothing more and by the time he got to WWF the place was already badly on the slide, he just put the final nail in it's coffin.
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Post by Shot 21 LCFC Thu 23 Jun 2011, 3:22 pm

The Dashing One wrote:To be honest I never cared much for The Warrior - when I was at school everybody was running around the yard pretending they were Warrior or Hogan while I was left on my own being The British Bulldog Sad

It took awhile but I think i'm over it now.

WOOF WOOF.

Same here mate. British Bulldog was a legend. R.I.P.

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Post by Kay Fabe Thu 23 Jun 2011, 4:32 pm

He peaked in 1992 at Wembley, for me his best days where 86-89 as part of a team

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Post by Mr H Thu 23 Jun 2011, 4:45 pm

As much as i liked Warrior at the time, and he provided me with my biggest mark out moment as a child when he returned at Mania 8, upon reflection right now in 2011, his career wouldnt warrant an all time top 10 place for me. He had all the tools but his personal demons and relationship with Vince didnt really give him much of a chance.

Cena will leave a greater legacy in the business than Warrior, which is sad.

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Post by Brady12 Thu 23 Jun 2011, 10:43 pm

Hmm as much as I love your knowledge & comments Crips I've got to agree with Gaffer here...In my humble opinion Warrior was the only guy who got near to Hogan during what was the greatest run in wrestling history..... That makes him top 5 for me


But hey what do I know? It's just an opinion. What constitutes the greatest in a world thats portrayed as athletic competition when in fact results are predetermined, charisma & marketability are more important than athletic ability.

What is the greatest film of all time? How are we gauging this? Godfather II? Star Wars? Titanic? Showgirls?

I've heard music critics say OK Computer by Radiohead is the greatest album of all time? Personally I can't stand them.

Best recording artist? John Lennon? Elvis Presley? Michael Jackson? Bryan Adams? Rick Astley?

Please tell me crips because like gaffer suggests your opinion holds more weight than his?

I loved Saved by the Bell growing up is it the greatest sitcom (??? Would you even call it that???) or all time? No of course not adults had Only Fools & Horses & the like.... Can you tell me who did an adult wrestling fan follow like in 89? Hogan? Earthquake? Who were an adults favourite character in the wacky racers?

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Post by Brady12 Thu 23 Jun 2011, 10:48 pm

I think this whole you were a kid then or course you show more bias to that era or superstar is a kop out.... We're all adults now & surely we can appreciate what Warrior did back then for a company that was predominately aimed at kids?

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Post by Kay Fabe Thu 23 Jun 2011, 10:56 pm

Mr H, while Cena may leave a greater video legacy than Warrior it remains to be seen if Cena fans of today will still regard him so highly in 22 years time, I can still enjoy watching his matches with Hogan. Savage. Rude, Perfect, Slaughter and DiBiase, do you think Cena fans will have many non gimmick matches to look back on apart from with Shawn Micheals to date

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Post by Mr H Fri 24 Jun 2011, 10:02 am

True Gaffer, true, i see your point. Performance wise Warrior pishes all over Cena. Whenever we do our 'Greatest Matches of All Time' lists on here, Warrior v Savage and Warrior v Hogan always feature and that tells its own story. I highly doubt any Cena match would make any list in 20yrs time.

Dont get me wrong i'm a huge Warrior fan, but as far as all time lists go he just wasnt in the business long enough and didnt accomplish more than certain others to push them out of a top 5 place. Just my opinion though, of course.

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Post by Shifty Fri 24 Jun 2011, 9:06 pm

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:He's nowhere near the greatest ever list.

I loved his act as a kid, but he was a one-dimensional flash in the pan with very little in the way of wrestling skills. And let's be honest, as entertaining as his promos were, they were also absolutely dreadful. His charisma was incredible, but he did very little for business.

He deserves credit for achieving what he did, and I would ignore the things other (bitter) wrestlers and promoters say about him, but he's well below the level of the greatest wrestlers. I think you'd have to be particularly blinkered to put him on a top 10 of all time list.

If you were making a list of the WWF/WWE wrestlers who made the greatest impact, he'd be on that. He was hugely over.

Gaffer, I normally agree with a lot of your posts, but top 5 ever?! Do you seriously rate him higher than Flair, Michaels, Piper and Savage? What is your criteria, other than the fact he was pushed heavily for a couple of years?

Flair was a big fish in a small pond at WCW, the truth is when he came to the WWF in the early 90's he killed it. Every friend I had basically stopped watching because Flair was so false and made it look so fake. My friend put it to me "it's like watching my grandad wrestle". Watching Flair after watching Hogan and Warrior was such a let down. Flair may of given a lot of years to the business but in the largest company flair almost killed it. Flair coming in was basically the point where WWF went on a major slide and WCW started to gain ground and eventually over take them. People can re-write history all they like but the truth is Flair was terrible and turned the fans off. I remember the one royal Rumble where Flair came in early won it, and everyone just gave up on the WWF.
Piper didn't have much wrestling talent either, he just never got pinned and didn't sell, he was runt who acted tough, nothing more nothing less. Warrior had far more talent. All of Pipers matches were brawls until they ended in a double disqualification or double count out.
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