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2013 6 Nations England

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majesticimperialman
Morgannwg
Knowsit17
TycroesOsprey
thebluesmancometh
Triangulation
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Post by Triangulation Tue 28 Feb 2012, 5:29 pm

If everyone could stay fit and could reach the point at which the coaches felt they were ready to launch. How about this team....?

1.Marler (rowntree is working on his scrum technique. he is explosive ball carrier)
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Garvey (compared to Simon Shaw by Ben Kay. Big mobile unit)
5.Parling (lineout nerd and worker)
6.Wood (archetypal 6 and lineout option)
7.Armitage (the closest well have to a proper 7. Greenwood called him a weeble in contact!)
8.Morgan
9.Youngs (at his best)
10.Cipriani (ditto. longshot)
11.May
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden

16.Corbisiero (can he cover tighthead?)
17.Gray
18.Lawes
19.Croft/Haskell
20.Care
21.Farrell
22.Delon Armitage

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Post by thebluesmancometh Tue 28 Feb 2012, 5:37 pm

I'm not sure what the point of this is, a lot of if's but's and maybe, hopes and prayers, and that side looks a little lacking to me.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Tue 28 Feb 2012, 5:44 pm

your scrum still wont be very good just like on saturday. thumbsup

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Post by Knowsit17 Tue 28 Feb 2012, 6:27 pm

Form at the time will be the decisive factor but if things stay the same as now Farrell will be in over Cipriani (who might not even make the EPS). Is Marler a better scrummager than Corbs? Brown should be handed a start at some point to see how he handles it.

Is Robshaw really behind all of Wood, Croft and Haskell? I've heard the pleas for a natural openside (which we in Wales are lucky to have two of in Warbs and Tipuric) but how exactly does Robshaw fit in?

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Post by Morgannwg Tue 28 Feb 2012, 6:29 pm

Ksevic.
Morgannwg
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Post by majesticimperialman Tue 28 Feb 2012, 6:29 pm

It is far tooooooooooo early to be think about next years 6ns. is'nt it? Whistle

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Post by kingelderfield Tue 28 Feb 2012, 8:51 pm

Trig are you Mick Cleary?

be honest i won't tell........

Seriously the one name that you havn't mentioned and the one of greatest significance has to be the name of the coach.

Us England supporters are all faintly delirious licking the rainbow dew of the silver lining, BUT the reality hidden beyond the event horizon of our rugby universe is the fact that more probable than not we will be left tort and frustrated with the failings of another inadequte coaching team.

Act now arm the militia, Dean Richards has been returned to us (soon). We must raise the ramparts to install our right to freedom, enlightenment and Blake'de-en GLORY!


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Post by Triangulation Wed 29 Feb 2012, 4:00 pm

kingelederfield

I am not Cleary. I promise. Apart from anything else he is the chief "SCW for England" cheerleader which i am not.

bluesmancometh

Thank you for your input. Self evidently there are lots of "ifs" "buts" and "maybes" in the team i posted. Well done for spotting that. No really well done.

The point of it is i suppose that if we can put out a team like that with all those guys getting close to realising what most good judges think is there, then WATCH THE %*£* OUT rest of the 6N at least.....

We'll eat you up for breakfast.


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Post by thebluesmancometh Wed 29 Feb 2012, 4:04 pm

Really, because it just look like a lacking inexperienced limited... Oh I get where your going, you want next year to be better than this...

My bad, I didn't get it at first!!!

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Post by Geordie Wed 29 Feb 2012, 4:12 pm

It could be:

1 Corbs
2 George
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Slater
6 Wood
7 Wallace
8 Fearns

9 Spencer
10 Farrell
11 Strettle
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

or it could be

1 Mullan
2 Lindsay
3 Thomas
4 Parling
5 Garvey
6 Robshaw
7 Kvesic
8 Mark Wilson (Falcons) / Alex Gray

9 Care
10 Burns
11 Wade
12 Turner Hall
13 JJ / Trinder
14 May
15 Brown

or.....i wont bother with another..

Or Nothing remotely like either....

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Post by Triangulation Wed 29 Feb 2012, 4:25 pm

GeordieFalcon

You have taken things a bit far there haven't you?!

Why do you say that both Barrit and Tuilagi could lose their spots???????!

I think the only genuine longshot i included in my side was Cipriani. The rest are very much on our radar surely?

I was trying to put forward an optimisitic picture for us for next year that had some chance of coming to pass.

Take Marler - he is in squad now for one reason - intensive scrum tutelage a the hands of the best scrum coach going around - Graham Rowntree. When he is deemed fit for purpose in that dept. he is going to be the complete ball carrying package for us.

Next year i do see us being significantly better than we are now and were pretty good now on 4 weeks preparation. With Garvey and Marler i see us having a bigger pack without losing anything in terms of mobility or set piece ability.

Similarly there is massive competetion for spots in our back row and at wing which will drive up performances.

Rowntree has said that developing a specialist ground hog 7 is priority and they're on it so that is very encouraging.




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Post by thebluesmancometh Wed 29 Feb 2012, 4:34 pm

Problem is there always has been huge competition for every spot in the team, that may be part of the problem!

Plus your team listed has 7 new starters, or changes, some teams named have much more, they will still be inexperienced and nervous.

What happens 2014 lose another 7 starters?

I think you have to look at this squad and use it as a basis, Wood will get the 7 shirt back, and for the next few seasons plug a gap until a real 7 can be found.

Corbs and Cole need to play together for a while, and then introduce a prop to their partnership, don't just replace one.

See what I'm getting at?

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Post by Triangulation Wed 29 Feb 2012, 4:39 pm

bluesmancometh

i kind of get you but 7?? what the?

i think i have only named 3 new caps - marler, garvey, and may with gray on the bench.

hardly revolution is it?!

and clearly no i would not advocate that every year.

Corbs i put on bench provided he can cover tighthead. which i might be wrong about.....

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Post by TycroesOsprey Wed 29 Feb 2012, 5:01 pm

corbs cant even play loosehead well as was proven on saturday and now you want to see him covering tighthead as well?

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Post by thomh Wed 29 Feb 2012, 5:05 pm

You can't prove that someone can't play loosehead well in one game. All you can prove is that they didn't play loosehead well that day. Corbs has scrummaged well for the rest of his international career. Quite how one game could 'prove' that he can't is beyond me.

I'd still guess that Marler will be in the team within the next year though.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Wed 29 Feb 2012, 5:07 pm

He didnt scrummage well against Scotland or Italy even when Castro went off and before that he was getting a beasting. I pointed that out to Tri before the wales game he didnt believe me, he was wrong.

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Post by adambarney Wed 29 Feb 2012, 5:08 pm

1.sheridan
2.hartley
3cole
4.garvey.
5.lawes
6.haskell
7.wallace
9.simpson
10.farrell
11.may
12.barritt
13.tuilagi
14.wade
15.foden

16.gray
17.marler
18.launcbury
19.croft
20.youngs
21cipriani
22.joseph

that one powefull and quick team but i would like to see that. Very Happy

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Post by Triangulation Wed 29 Feb 2012, 5:50 pm

adambarney

Who's 8?

Do we really want Sheri back?

tycroes

you called our entire front row "ordinary". i took exception. build a bridge. get over it.




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Post by adambarney Wed 29 Feb 2012, 5:53 pm

sorry forgot morgan i just think sheridan power scares front row teams even if we use him untill marler can scrum.

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Post by Geordie Thu 01 Mar 2012, 8:40 am

Triangulation...

Sorry i was just being flippant....

I fully expect the midfield to be Barritt and Tuilagi, its a very powerful and talented pair.

And whilst i dont anticipate many changes now...and that would be right...ill contradict that by saying I also suspect the following to be really challenging for places .

May (Wing)
JJ & Trinder (Centre)
Garvey, Slater (Second Row)
Lindsay & George (Hooker)
Marler (LH)
Fearns (No.8)
Burns & Ford (FH)

Possibles:
Wallace & Kvesic (7)
Gray (No.8)
Spencer (SH)

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Post by Triangulation Thu 01 Mar 2012, 10:23 am

GeordieFalcon

I forgive you. It is bad enough with all the welsh gloating and sniping without English supporters being flippant with one another's optimisim!!

Good input on the up and coming players too.

How many of them do you see as really bringing a much needed edge that we do not possess in our current squad.

For me....

Marler brings it - we need ball carrying props. Vickery, Woodman, Ubogu these guys were immense and part of our heritage. We wont be challenging top 3 sides without barnbusting ball carrying props.

Garvey brings it - big mobile unit who makes 95% tackles success rate carries ball and makes dents in well organised defence while doing the set piece very well. Adds weight behind our front row in the scrum.

May brings it - electric pacey running to beat defenders and try scoring potency

Kvesic and Wallace - groundhogs - they might bring that. If they do were in business.

Wade - Jason Robinson-esque ability to beat defenders and finish off even half opportunities - pirceless against organised defences. Could be a massive weapon off the bench against tired legs

Who else and what do they bring/might they bring when ready to launch??






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Post by adambarney Thu 01 Mar 2012, 10:36 am

launcbury- brings power fitness and good i. the tackle.

billy vunipola- monster 6"2 19st ball carrier.

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Post by Geordie Thu 01 Mar 2012, 10:54 am

Who else and what do they bring/might they bring when ready to launch??

Tri,

I actually think we need to be careful about HOW MANY people we are looking at.

We havea very young squad under Lancaster....and one that in three games has shown good signs of progression. He has also shown a good degree of selection intelligence. Bringing the right players in at the right time....though i stress its only 3 games.

I agree we need some big carriers...but i also want solidity..actually no.. i want strength in the set piece aswell though..so IF Marlers scrummaging is not up to scratch then we need to make sure the player at 1 is the right person.

Looking at this years side....i would say the areas for me to look at would be...

1) Hooker
2) A powerhouse Second Row - Botha has done well...but is he the best...and Im still not convinced with Lawes (yes i know hes been injured) i really hope he proves me wrong.
3) Back row balance...we need a real 7
4) Decide which style we want to play...and choose the right 10 to play the game....ie Farrell, Flood, Burns etc.

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Post by Triangulation Thu 01 Mar 2012, 11:09 am

GeordieFalcon

I agree and i have hand selected 5 players who bring something we dont currently have in the squad.

Other than that i think we have things reasonably well covered.


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Post by Geordie Thu 01 Mar 2012, 11:13 am

Ah the Grand Slam is in the bag next year....and the WC 2015...well, is there any point any other team turning up.... Very Happy Wink

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Post by Triangulation Thu 01 Mar 2012, 11:48 am

GeordieFalcon

NO!

But we will at least be a threat.

At the moment we're young and were good, were disciplined and we're working hard for each other but were a little bit blunt in attack. A little workmanlike.

I do not see that changing with the current squad particularly without some edge being brought in.

Anyway.

Whatever.

I'm sure the coaches whoever they may be are alive to this.

Even if very few of my compatriots on here seem to be...


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