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Wooden Spoon

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TJ1
Scot Abroad
ScarletSpiderman
debaters1
geoff998rugby
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George Carlin
slartibartfast
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MrsP
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poddy89
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Who's going to get the Wooden Spoon

Wooden Spoon Vote_lcap62%Wooden Spoon Vote_rcap 62% 
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Total Votes : 45
 
 

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Post by MajorRoadWorks Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:21 pm

Unfortunately every year one side has to win the Wooden Spoon.

Who do you think it will be this year, and where they just unlucky ?

I think it will be Scotland this year. Think Italy will all of a sudden fire on all cylinders and just pip the Scots at the end, leaving the Scottish with another Wooden Spoon. But I don't think it fair. They should have beaten England, gave Wales a fright in the first 40, but it is just not gelling for them.

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Post by thebluesmancometh Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:28 pm

Do us a favour and add Wales to the poll, even now I know of 3 606 ers who'd vote for them, you know who I'm talking about...

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Post by rodders Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:29 pm

I hate to say it but Ireland aren't out of the woods yet.

You'd fancy Italy though to finish bottom.
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Post by majesticimperialman Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:29 pm

MajorRoadWorks wrote:Unfortunately every year one side has to win the Wooden Spoon.

Who do you think it will be this year, and where they just unlucky ?

I think it will be Scotland this year. Think Italy will all of a sudden fire on all cylinders and just pip the Scots at the end, leaving the Scottish with another Wooden Spoon. But I don't think it fair. They should have beaten England, gave Wales a fright in the first 40, but it is just not gelling for them.

+1

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Post by Shifty Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:32 pm

Scotland for me I think.

They have a decent young team, now get a decent coach, who can do more than pace around and moan about the referee.
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Post by SecretFly Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:43 pm

So much for all the hopeful comments and names on lists for prospective players of the Championship and Lion's prospective candidates.

I saw quite a few Scots on those lists and now, when the crunch question is asked, the sighs return and many think that they haven't the players to go to Rome and win?

I think they have the ability to win nicely in Rome. It's not the side that began the Championships. They've been on the receiving end of some dubious calls, and if they can play anything like they did against France then they'll have too much for Italy.

IFs of course - but I'd be much more positive about their chances. Ireland will already be worrying about the Scots and what they might do to us.

Italy, the Spoon.

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Post by thebluesmancometh Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:49 pm

I have to agree Fly, the backline will just have too much if they get a platform.

I also think the Scots have now progressed as far as they can without getting the wins, if they don't start getting the rub of the green soon they'll start making big mistakes like sacking the coach etc...

Everyone tends to forget that they probably deserved to win V England, and were very narrowly beated by France. They just need to be brave and keep playing against Italy, but there is a chance they will get nervy and make mistakes.

The team who wins that game is the team who plays more carefree rugby and goes for the try!

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Post by poddy89 Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:59 pm

i think italy will take it this year, i can see the scots using the backs alot with hogg, jones, blair and maybe even de luca after last week making breaks, once scotland have support runners there will be alot more tries, have had many missed chances in every game.

the ireland game is still a realistic target for us too,

but yeah italy are struggling alot this year so will see them taking it,

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Post by glamorganalun Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:17 pm

If Scotland don't beat Ireland I can't see them winning in Italy. I think Ireland may be too good for Scotland hence Scotland for the spoon, I hope I am wrong.

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Post by CurlyOsp Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:47 pm

Unfortunatly I think Scotland may just run out of steam. They've attacked each of their games all-guns-blazing so far and been unlucky not to come away with a win or two.

Hopefully they'll prove me wrong, scoring some nice tries along the way, but there can only be so much fuel left in that tank.

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Post by skippy Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:48 pm

From what Iv seen Scotland are a step above Italy.

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Post by rodders Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:21 pm

I agree, Scotland will beat Italy comfortably... they could well beat Ireland too.
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Post by MrsP Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:24 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Do us a favour and add Wales to the poll, even now I know of 3,606 ers who'd vote for them, you know who I'm talking about...

See, I read that totally wrong

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Post by Taffineastbourne Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:28 pm

This thread is in pretty bad taste.Imagine how you'd feel if your side was involved.Not pleasant.

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Post by slartibartfast Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:38 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:This thread is in pretty bad taste.Imagine how you'd feel if your side was involved.Not pleasant.

Agreed.
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Post by George Carlin Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:33 pm

But do you actually win a huge wooden spoon, though?
It would be awesome if you did.

Richie Gray could use it for his vat of Cheerios in the morning.
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Post by SecretFly Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:41 pm

The guys at the top always tut tut the guys in the middle who chat about the guys at the bottom.

It's a 6N tradition.

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Post by miteyironpaw Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:42 pm

MajorRoadWorks wrote:Unfortunately every year one side has to win the Wooden Spoon.

Actually, they don't.

"Wooden Spoon" really means you lost all of your games, rather than just finished last. For some reason the phrase started being used incorrectly a few years back and nobody noticed.

And before someone rushes to wrongipedia and posts some nonsense, wrongipedia is also wrong.


Last edited by miteyironpaw on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by geoff998rugby Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:43 pm

Not in bad taste at all A perfectly legitimate topic for debate

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Post by debaters1 Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:49 pm

This is even a contest, Scotland will beat Italy. And I won't be shocked (I'll be annoyed, upset, angry & crestfallen, but not shocked) if they were to beat Ireland on Saturday.

Italy have improved, but after knocking them down for 40 mins, Ireland went through the gears in the second half. I expect Scotland to do the same thing and get even more change than Ireland at the breakdown and I genuinely fear for whomever is playing 10 for Italy against that backrow and such a mobile second row. That'll be a long afternoon for him.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:08 pm

MrsP wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:Do us a favour and add Wales to the poll, even now I know of 3,606 ers who'd vote for them, you know who I'm talking about...

See, I read that totally wrong

No i think there may well be that many who would put it down.

Being serious I think it will be a tight call, which seems harsh as to be fair neither Italy or Scotland have been bad. Usually there is a clear favourite to finish bottom, and they tend to deserve to be there. But this year Scotland have shown well against the English and French, but lost. And the Italians shown well against the English, and looked decent for the majority of the matches against Ireland and France. So like I said it seems harsh for either of them. Ideal world Scotland would beat Ireland this weekend, and Italy would beat Scotland next weekend meaning it comes down to points difference.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:11 pm

miteyironpaw wrote:
MajorRoadWorks wrote:Unfortunately every year one side has to win the Wooden Spoon.

Actually, they don't.

"Wooden Spoon" really means you lost all of your games, rather than just finished last. For some reason the phrase started being used incorrectly a few years back and nobody noticed.

And before someone rushes to wrongipedia and posts some nonsense, wrongipedia is also wrong.

I thought it was a 'whitewash' if you lost all your games? Also I am going to make a wikipedia page stating it is called a white wash after England lost all their games once (although I can't even think of an occation when that happened).
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Post by geoff998rugby Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:25 pm

Wooden Spoon has always being for finishing last, not losing every game, for as long as I recall and I'm 57.

Agree re 'Whitewash' that is the term for losing every game

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Post by miteyironpaw Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:34 pm

The origins of the "wooden spoon" concept meaning "lost everything" is very old, having common etymology.

The original "wooden spoons" used in the culinary context were taken from splintered wooden defences, a vanquished stronghold being forced to eat from splinters of their ruined civilization metaphorically but also physically. Wooden implements were not the first choice for obvious hygeine reasons.

The very word "spoon" originates from the phrase for "splintered".

Finishing last and "eating from the wooden spoon"/having been utterly vanquished/having nothing left are two slightly different things.

I suspec that "wooden spoon" was applied pejoratively to the team who came last but hadn't in fact lost everything, and it stuck.

Hence the perjorative nature of "spoon" as an inadequate or vanquished person, and "spoon-fed" meaning a feckless person who would ultimately end up utterly ruined if not helped by even the weakest of providers.


Last edited by miteyironpaw on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by MajorRoadWorks Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:34 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
miteyironpaw wrote:
MajorRoadWorks wrote:Unfortunately every year one side has to win the Wooden Spoon.

Actually, they don't.

"Wooden Spoon" really means you lost all of your games, rather than just finished last. For some reason the phrase started being used incorrectly a few years back and nobody noticed.

And before someone rushes to wrongipedia and posts some nonsense, wrongipedia is also wrong.

I thought it was a 'whitewash' if you lost all your games? Also I am going to make a wikipedia page stating it is called a white wash after England lost all their games once (although I can't even think of an occation when that happened).

1972....

Sat, 18 Mar 1972 ENG v SCO 9-23 Murrayfield, Edinburgh A
Sat, 26 Feb 1972 ENG v FRA 12-37 Stade Colombes, Paris A
Sat, 12 Feb 1972 ENG v IRE 12-16 Twickenham, London H
Sat, 15 Jan 1972 ENG v WAL 3-12 Twickenham, London H



Remember it well....


Last edited by MajorRoadWorks on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Scot Abroad Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:39 pm

I see it more as winning the wooden spoon than anything else.

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Post by TJ1 Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:43 pm

I take no offense in the discussion as a Scotland supporter. I think Italy will beat Scotland as Scotland are likely to go there dispirited and still with poor selections and lack of mental preparation whereas Italy will be really fired up for it.

Hopefully that will be the end of Robinson

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Post by miteyironpaw Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:45 pm

You really think he's that bad TJ? Who would you prefer?
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Post by MajorRoadWorks Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:10 pm

League of Wooden spoons (Accross 6 Nations and previous tournaments, ie 5 Nations).

IRE 33
SCO 24
ENG 21
WAL 19
FRA 12
ITA 9


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Post by R!skysports Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:27 pm

Italy for me.

I hope that Scotland can win against Ireland, but it will be a tough one. If we do, I think we will destroy Italy (well maybe)

As to AR - he has to go. He has held back the team now for over a year. He has put us in the lowest ever world ranking. He lost us the world cup tradition of getting out of the groups. He does not want to pick form players because they are too young. Is forced to contunally admit he made selection mistakes and generally is destroying the best group of players we have had afor a while

(Sorry that was off topic, but GRrrrrrr)

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Post by Scot Abroad Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:28 pm

TJ wrote:I take no offense in the discussion as a Scotland supporter. I think Italy will beat Scotland as Scotland are likely to go there dispirited and still with poor selections and lack of mental preparation whereas Italy will be really fired up for it.

Hopefully that will be the end of Robinson

Agreed, absolutely no offence taken here either. It's something that I've gotten used to as a Scotland supporter. If Scotland can put in a good performance against Ireland and Wales maul Italy then there's a chance that we can win in Rome. But we have a pretty bad record over there and I think the Scottish players will be tired of being nearly men and just want to get back to their clubs. I can see us finishing bottom. How it's changed since before the WC when I honestly thought we could win that group.

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Post by TJ1 Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:37 pm





miteyironpaw Today at 2:45 pm
You really think he's that bad TJ? Who would you prefer?

yes I do

Any decent young ambitious coach

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Post by maestegmafia Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:53 pm

The wooden spoon goes to the team who lost all their matches, not to the bottom placed side.

There may well not be an award this season..

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Post by Alex_Germany Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:52 am

roddersm wrote:I hate to say it but Ireland aren't out of the woods yet.

You'd fancy Italy though to finish bottom.

Scotland and Italy to win their next two games Smile

Then Ireland and England battle for the wooden spoon? Or England to win the championship.


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Post by geoff998rugby Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:07 am

maestegmafia wrote:The wooden spoon goes to the team who lost all their matches, not to the bottom placed side.

There may well not be an award this season..

In the 60's supporters spoke of the bottom side getting the wooden spoon even when they won a match.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:21 am

maestegmafia wrote:The wooden spoon goes to the team who lost all their matches, not to the bottom placed side.

There may well not be an award this season..
Bottom is wooden spoon. Winning no games is a whitewash.

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Post by maestegmafia Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:30 am

Alex_Germany wrote:
roddersm wrote:I hate to say it but Ireland aren't out of the woods yet.

You'd fancy Italy though to finish bottom.

Scotland and Italy to win their next two games Smile

Then Ireland and England battle for the wooden spoon? Or England to win the championship.


I can see Scotland winning their last two games, not Italy though.

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Post by Alex_Germany Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:40 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Alex_Germany wrote:
roddersm wrote:I hate to say it but Ireland aren't out of the woods yet.

You'd fancy Italy though to finish bottom.

Scotland and Italy to win their next two games Smile

Then Ireland and England battle for the wooden spoon? Or England to win the championship.


I can see Scotland winning their last two games, not Italy though.

Italy are underdogs, especially away. But they have all of rugby playing Europe behind them (apart from the Welsh).

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Post by SecretFly Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:44 am

If Ireland hit the bottom this year. We'd all groan and accept the inevitable - which would put a big smile on many of our faces Wink - a total clear out of coaches and a quicker promotion for players now waiting on the sidelines, an infinitely more aggressive, in-your-face game and............. well, that's enough for now.


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Post by maestegmafia Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:46 am

Alex_Germany wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Alex_Germany wrote:
roddersm wrote:I hate to say it but Ireland aren't out of the woods yet.

You'd fancy Italy though to finish bottom.

Scotland and Italy to win their next two games Smile

Then Ireland and England battle for the wooden spoon? Or England to win the championship.


I can see Scotland winning their last two games, not Italy though.

Italy are underdogs, especially away. But they have all of rugby playing Europe behind them (apart from the Welsh).

I think like many other fans in Wales we would love to see them do well, though we are rather fixated on our plausible Grand Slam ambitions.

Italy were very unlucky to have not got a better result out of their home match, they were leading two tries to nil for most the game and looking very handy.

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Post by Alex_Germany Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:56 am

I thought there was a penalty fine for any one mentioning the word Grand followed by Slam in Wales. You must now down 2 pints in 10 seconds. laughing

I don't think Italy were looking handy - two lucky tries in two minutes. That said, they appear to be a tough team to beat in Italy (just ask France), but don't travel well.

I wonder why it's so noticeable for Italy - though Murrayfield is also a difficult place.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:12 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Italy were very unlucky to have not got a better result out of their home match, they were leading two tries to nil for most the game and looking very handy.
Italy were 2 tries to nil up against England for less than 10 minutes. Hardly "most of the game" Very Happy

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:02 pm

It´s a case of which side wants it more. Who will butcher a certain try with a man unmarked outside? Who will give away a penalty right in front of the sticks with no time left on the clock and two points the difference? Both sides will have to dig deep and find that extra something especially poor.

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