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How to ref the scrums?

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Biltong
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How to ref the scrums? Empty How to ref the scrums?

Post by hugo124 Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:30 pm

I am a frequent watcher of rugby.I try and watch a game whenever one is on, and so I usually have something to complain about when the ref makes in my opinion a bad decision.However, I usually can't complain at all when watching the scrummaging penalties, as I have no clue what is going on.Most of the time, I don't think the refs do either.
For me, the easiest offence to penalise is early engagement but it is hard to tell which team engages early as well.
Incorrect binding-Some refs say to bind on the arm but others let you bind on your opponents jersey.
Boring in- some refs penalise it and others give a penalty for you, for doing it.
Standing up-Dylan Hartly specialises in this area.When Northampton go forward they stand up, is that not an offence?
Romain Poite seems to give a team going forward a penalty and Stuart Barnes praises him for his "brilliant" reffing.
I like to think, I know what I am talking about in terms of scrummaging, but in reality I don't think anyone does!

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Post by whocares Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:35 pm

Neither do I and thats why I sympathise with romain poite Wink

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Post by DaveM Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:47 pm

According to Paddy O'Brien a lot of trial work is going on regarding the scrum at present. O'Brien says he'd like to see the hit removed, and I reckon that is the most likely outcome - this should deal with most binding issues. If that happens then the refs will be able to concentrate on feeding, and hooking the ball will become part of the game again.

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Post by hugo124 Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:47 pm

whocares wrote:Neither do I and thats why I sympathise with romain poite Wink
Yea but your not a ref, so it isn't your job to know.

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Post by Biltong Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:49 pm

I agree the scrum along with the breakdown are the two most contentious areas of refereeing.

A collapsed scrum can be for various reasons and unless the referee is alert he can easily get it wrong. The most common one is where the front row bind with their heads below their hips. but it could also be because the two packs of front rows are too far apart. Then you have the foot slip one. the most difficult one to see is where the front row roll their neck and shoulders down on impact.

Boring in is usually one of two ways, the most common one is when the loose head prop is pushed by a superior tight head (physically) and bends, if the tight head keeps boring forward the loose head is seen to be boring in, but it is really becuase of pressure.

Incorrect binding in my opinion is the biggest culprit and for some reason it isn't blown often.

As a lose head I used to aim for the spot where I would bind under the outside arm of the tight head, and not look into his eyes, my left arm would be in the position where I would could jab with an uppercut to the target, the reason was simple, if my arm comes too far in a straight line the tighthead could close my arm with downward pressure and I wouldn't be able to lock my shoulder with my arm underneath his but horisontal to the ground. It is much harder for a loose head if the tight head can get downward momentum on you, becuase then you can't put your momentum forward so much, you have to just fight to keep it up.

Tight heads there for will aim to bind underneath your left arm, which is illegal, but they get away with it often.

If you get your arm under his and extend your elbow as far out as you can with the moentum you create as your arm shoots out, and lock your shoulder in a horisontal position it is unlikely the tight head can do anything.

It also helps as it provides you with a straight line extention from your left leg, all the wway through your back into your shoulders, pretty solid.

I think the reason the referees struggle with this is becasue they can't really see what is happening. for example when a prop bores in on the hooker, how do you see that?

I would like to see the engage go back to the feeding team, it is after all their scrum and their supposed benefit.
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Post by aucklandlaurie Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:51 pm

The only purpose scrums serve to rugby is as a means of recommencing play after a fault in play has occurred,they should not be a means of scoring points via penalties for the teams that are too clueless or lazy to create point scoring opportunities through playing the game.

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Post by gowales Thu 15 Mar 2012, 8:58 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: The only purpose scrums serve to rugby is as a means of recommencing play after a fault in play has occurred,they should not be a means of scoring points via penalties for the teams that are too clueless or lazy to create point scoring opportunities through playing the game.

Hey isn't that rugby league

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Post by offload Thu 15 Mar 2012, 10:01 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: The only purpose scrums serve to rugby is as a means of recommencing play after a fault in play has occurred,they should not be a means of scoring points via penalties for the teams that are too clueless or lazy to create point scoring opportunities through playing the game.

Auckland -I thing a lot of union fans would beg to differ. The scrum is a game within a game and part of the essence of rugby union. I would love to see the rules and refereeing approach support that, as I fear we are heading in the direction of it becomming the farce it is in League.
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Post by damage_13 Thu 15 Mar 2012, 10:10 am

chairman Moore wrote a good article on this once, it was ages ago and everything he wrote still makes sense now.

I'll link if I find it

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