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England U-20 squad for JWC

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anotherworldofpain
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England U-20 squad for JWC Empty England U-20 squad for JWC

Post by Dubbelyew L Overate Tue May 01, 2012 10:01 pm

England Under 20 IRB Junior World Championship squad

Forwards

Dominic Barrow (Leeds Carnegie)
Koree Britton (Gloucester Rugby)*
Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Max Crumpton (Saracens)
Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
Alec Hepburn (London Wasps)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)*
George Merrick (Harlequins)
Nathan Morris (London Wasps)
Ben Nutley (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
David Sisi (London Irish)
Sam Twomey (Harlequins)*
Chris Walker (Leeds Carnegie)

Backs

Will Addison (Sale Sharks)
Josh Bassett (Bedford Blues)
Tommy Bell (Sale Sharks)
Jamie Elliott (Northampton Saints)
Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby)
Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs)
Ryan Mills (Gloucester Rugby)*
Ben Ransom (Saracens)*
Dan Robson (Gloucester Rugby)*
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Spencer (Saracens)
Charlie Walker (Harlequins)
Marland Yarde (London Irish)*

* Played in 2011 IRB Junior World Championship

England opt to take only 4 of the 5 starting fly-halves used in 6N, with George Ford being the notable omission.

Within the squad, Luke Cowan-Dickie has the bragging rights upfront as he and the Exeter scrum destroyed Quins, including his oppo, Kyle Sinckler, for a penalty try in the dying moments of the A team final last night.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 10:02 pm

http://www.rfu.com/News/2012/May/NewsArticles/010512_20s_JWC_squad.aspx


Forwards
Dom Barrow (Leeds Carnegie)
Koree Britton (Gloucester Rugby)*
Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Max Crumpton (Saracens)
Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
Alec Hepburn (London Wasps)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)*
George Merrick (Harlequins)
Nathan Morris (London Wasps)
Ben Nutley (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
David Sisi (London Irish)
Sam Twomey (Harlequins)*
Chris Walker (Leeds Carnegie)

Backs
Will Addison (Sale Sharks)
Josh Bassett (Bedford Blues)
Tommy Bell (Sale Sharks)
Jamie Elliott (Northampton Saints)
Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby)
Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs)
Ryan Mills (Gloucester Rugby)*
Ben Ransom (Saracens)*
Dan Robson (Gloucester Rugby)*
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Spencer (Saracens)
Charlie Walker (Harlequins)
Marland Yarde (London Irish)*

* Played in 2011 IRB Junior World Championship

IRB Junior World Championship schedule
All games live on Sky Sports HD

Game 1
England v Italy
Monday June 4, 15:45 (GMT)
University of Western Cape Stadium, Cape Town

Game 2
England v Ireland
Friday June 8, 17:45 (GMT)
Danie Craven Stadium, Stellenbosch

Game 3
South Africa v England
Tuesday June 12, 17:45 (GMT)
Danie Craven Stadium, Stellenbosch

Semi-final
Sunday June 17

Final
Friday June 22
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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue May 01, 2012 10:03 pm

Forwards
Dom Barrow (Leeds Carnegie)
Koree Britton (Gloucester Rugby)*
Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Max Crumpton (Saracens)
Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
Alec Hepburn (London Wasps)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)*
George Merrick (Harlequins)
Nathan Morris (London Wasps)
Ben Nutley (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
David Sisi (London Irish)
Sam Twomey (Harlequins)*
Chris Walker (Leeds Carnegie)

Backs
Will Addison (Sale Sharks)
Josh Bassett (Bedford Blues)
Tommy Bell (Sale Sharks)
Jamie Elliott (Northampton Saints)
Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby)
Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs)
Ryan Mills (Gloucester Rugby)*
Ben Ransom (Saracens)*
Dan Robson (Gloucester Rugby)*
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Spencer (Saracens)
Charlie Walker (Harlequins)
Marland Yarde (London Irish)*

* Played in 2011 IRB Junior World Championship

Full article here:
http://www.rfu.com/News/2012/May/NewsArticles/010512_20s_JWC_squad.aspx

Some players are missing the likes of Price and Watson don't make the side despite good 6N showings (Watson shredded the Irish under 20s). Ford is also left out presumably for senior selection or so he can bulk up in pre season with Tigers as he is expected to be the back up to Flood next season despite being only 19 (turned 19 in March).

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Post by LondonTiger Tue May 01, 2012 10:04 pm

George Ford does not have a huge amount to prove at U20 level. I just hope this decision has been made to allow a proper pre-season and a summer of strength building, and not as I fear an indication he may be included in the SA touring party.

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Post by LondonTiger Tue May 01, 2012 10:08 pm

i am rather surprised that Anthony watson is not going

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Post by beshocked Tue May 01, 2012 10:09 pm

Where's Elliot Daly,Anthony Watson and Scott Spurling?

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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 10:09 pm

Well that answers the question about George Ford I suppose.
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Post by Dubbelyew L Overate Tue May 01, 2012 10:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:i am rather surprised that Anthony watson is not going

So am I, but I think he's still only 17(?), so there's plenty of time for him in the future, and the squad's not short of pace with the likes of Yarde, Walker and Bassett.

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Post by beshocked Tue May 01, 2012 10:12 pm

3 articles in rapid succession about the U20s. You guys are evidently very enthusiastic.

Looks like a strong squad. Plenty of AP experience there.

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Post by Driver Tue May 01, 2012 10:14 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Well that answers the question about George Ford I suppose.

Yeah , He's not good enough for our U20s! We're Doomed! Laugh


Also no big Joe Robinson in the back row?
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Post by Dubbelyew L Overate Tue May 01, 2012 10:15 pm

Beshocked,

Max Crumpton is a Sarries name I don't recognise, what do you know of him?

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Post by beshocked Tue May 01, 2012 10:15 pm

Pardon my ignorance but can someone break down who plays in what positions?

I know some obviously like Heathcote - 10, Bassett and Elliot - 11 and 14, Spencer - 9, Ransom - 15. Yarde - centre. Cowan Dickie- prop. Nutley - flanker

Could someone fill in the blanks?

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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 10:17 pm

Oops, there are about three these threads, could a mod merge it please. Smile
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Post by thomh Tue May 01, 2012 10:17 pm

beshocked

Kyle Sinkler is a tighthead at Quins. Haven't seen much myself, but people are very excited about him.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue May 01, 2012 10:18 pm

So am I, but I think he's still only 17(?), so there's plenty of time for him in the future, and the squad's not short of pace with the likes of Yarde, Walker and Bassett.

True but at the same time he really shone in the under 20 6N. Against Ireland he really ripped their defence apart. I thought he looked a little more secure under the high ball and in defence tahn Ransom who looked a bit dodgey in that area in last years JWC. I've not seen anything of Ransom since then so I don't know if he's improved or not.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 10:20 pm

Sinkler and Cowan-Dickie formed a very powerful unit in the Six Nations, both are very destructive with the ball in hand too. Very athletic for guys their size.
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Post by beshocked Tue May 01, 2012 10:21 pm

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Beshocked,

Max Crumpton is a Sarries name I don't recognise, what do you know of him?

Can't say I know much of him actually. Only that he's a hooker. He seems to be a bit of a bolter. Surprisingly the more high profile Scott Spurling misses out.

Looks like Max Crumpton was in the U18s last season but wasn't involved in the England U20s this 6 nations.

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=6485


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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 10:21 pm

beshocked wrote:Pardon my ignorance but can someone break down who plays in what positions?

I know some obviously like Heathcote - 10, Bassett and Elliot - 11 and 14, Spencer - 9, Ransom - 15. Yarde - centre. Cowan Dickie- prop. Nutley - flanker

Could someone fill in the blanks?


Forwards:

Props:

Luke Cowan-Dickie
Ross Harrison
Alec Hepburn
Kyle Sinkler

Hooker

Max Crumpton
Koree Britton
Nathan Morris

Second-Row:

Dom Barrow
George Merrick
Sam Twomey

Flanker:

Matt Kvesic
Ben Nutley
Chris Walker

No.8:

David Sisi
Jack Clifford


BACKS

Scrum Half:

Ben Spencer
Dan Robson

Fly Half:

Tom Heathcote
Tommy Bell (Been playing full back for Leeds, he's listed as a centre too)
Henry Slade

Centres:

Sam Hill
Ryan Mills
Charlie Walker (also a wing)

Wing:

Josh Bassett
Marland Yarde
Jamie Elliot (can play Outside centre)

Fullback:

Ben Ransom
Will Addison (He can play in the centre and the wing, but is on record as saying this is his favourite position is fullback.


Last edited by Cumbrian on Tue May 01, 2012 10:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Dubbelyew L Overate Tue May 01, 2012 10:24 pm

The Backs

Will Addison (Sale Sharks) - back 3
Josh Bassett (Bedford Blues) - wing
Tommy Bell (Sale Sharks) -15/10
Jamie Elliott (Northampton Saints) - centre/wing
Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby) - 10
Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs) - 12
Ryan Mills (Gloucester Rugby)* 12/10
Ben Ransom (Saracens)* - 15
Dan Robson (Gloucester Rugby)* - 9
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs) - 10
Ben Spencer (Saracens) - 9
Charlie Walker (Harlequins) - 13/wing
Marland Yarde (London Irish)* - wing

There's quite a bit of swapping around at U-20, so I'm open to correction on player's preferred/best positions.

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Post by Dubbelyew L Overate Tue May 01, 2012 10:27 pm

beshocked wrote:
Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Beshocked,

Max Crumpton is a Sarries name I don't recognise, what do you know of him?

Can't say I know much of him actually. Only that he's a hooker. He seems to be a bit of a bolter. Surprisingly the more high profile Scott Spurling misses out.

Looks like Max Crumpton was in the U18s last season but wasn't involved in the England U20s this 6 nations.

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=6485


Cheers OK

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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 10:28 pm

Spurling is only 18, so he'll be involved next year. Either that or the Scots have poached him... Shocked
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Post by beshocked Tue May 01, 2012 10:28 pm

Thanks Cumbrian and Dubbelyew Overate

That's a lot of 10s! Doesn't seem to be many specialist centres.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 10:34 pm

By my reckoning Ryan Mills will be the primary inside centre with Sam Smith deputising. It looks to me that Charlie Walker has got the outside centre position sown up.
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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 10:38 pm

Elliot Daly is missing too, odd one if he isn't injured.
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Post by ChequeredJersey Tue May 01, 2012 10:48 pm

Maybe (though I doubt it) SL has told him he's touring with the big boys, despite 13 being an area if strength in depth
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Post by Dubbelyew L Overate Tue May 01, 2012 10:57 pm

Cumbrian wrote:By my reckoning Ryan Mills will be the primary inside centre with Sam Smith deputising. It looks to me that Charlie Walker has got the outside centre position sown up.

Think you mean Sam Hill?

Not sure about that - Sam impresses me the more I see him. He's been getting plenty of game time with Pirates, and LV/A-team with Chiefs (and as of last night has Premiership silverware Chief ). It'll be interesting to see which of the two Devon boys prevails.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue May 01, 2012 10:58 pm

Maybe (though I doubt it) SL has told him he's touring with the big boys, despite 13 being an area if strength in depth

The only capped specialist 13 under 30 is Manu. Lowe, Trinder and Joseph don't have a cap between them though I think Trinder played against the Baabaas. An area of much potential but very little international experience. Daley could get in there, the ball travels far in parts of SA and he has a 60m range in England.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 01, 2012 11:03 pm

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:By my reckoning Ryan Mills will be the primary inside centre with Sam Smith deputising. It looks to me that Charlie Walker has got the outside centre position sown up.

Think you mean Sam Hill?

Not sure about that - Sam impresses me the more I see him. He's been getting plenty of game time with Pirates, and LV/A-team with Chiefs (and as of last night has Premiership silverware Chief ). It'll be interesting to see which of the two Devon boys prevails.


Oops, you are correct sir.
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Post by Cumbrian Wed May 02, 2012 3:37 am

So the starting line up something like?

1. Luke Cowan-Dickie
2. Koree Britton
3. Kyle Sinkle
4. Dominic Barrow
5. George Merrick
6. Matt Kvesic
7. Chris Walker
8. David Sisi (Although Jack Clifford started a lot in the Si Nations)

9. Ben Spencer (Inexplicably, the same with Robson)
10. Tom Heathcote

11. Marland Yarde
12. Ryan Mills/ Sam Hill
13. Charlie Walker
14. Jamie Elliot
15. Ben Ransom
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Post by Cumbrian Wed May 02, 2012 4:07 am

How do you think it compares with last years:

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Mike Haywood
3. Henry Thomas
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Charlie Matthews
6. Sam Jones
7. Matt Kvesic
8. Alex Gray

9. Chris Cook
10 George Ford

11. Christian Wade
12. Owen Farrell
13. Elliott Daly
14. Andy Short
15. Ben Ransom


2010

15. Tom Homer (London Irish) 
14. Christian Wade (London Wasps) 
13. Andrew Forsyth (Leicester Tigers) 
12. Tom Casson (Harlequins) 
11. Sam Smith (Harlequins) 

10. Rory Clegg (Harlequins) 
9. Charlie Davies (Stade Francais) 

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins) 
2. Jamie George (Saracens) 
3. Shaun Knight (Gloucester) 
4. Calum Green (Leicester Tigers) 
5. Charlie Matthews (Harlequins) 
6. Jamie Gibson (London Irish) 
7. Jacob Rowan (Leeds Carnegie, captain) 
8. Jackson Wray (Saracens) 

2009

15.Tom Homer
14.George Lowe
13. Henry Trinder
12. Luke Eves
11.Charlie Sharples

10. Rory Clegg
09. Ben Youngs

01. Ben Moon
02. James Clark
03. Bob Baker
04. Graham Kitchener
05. James Gaskell
06. Courtney Lawes
07. Calum Clark
08. Carl Fearns
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Post by Driver Wed May 02, 2012 4:14 am

What ever happened to James Clark at hook?
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Post by Cumbrian Wed May 02, 2012 5:04 am

Not sure, had a quick look and I can't find him. Last thing I can see is a loan at Nottingham back in 2009.

About the thing you posted on the other thread, I think Robinson isn't involved because he is still only 18. Hopefully he'll get a look in next year.

Edit: No he isn't, well I suppose it could because the guys he is competing against are getting a couple of first team games for the clubs whilst he hasn't yet. It's a shame.
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Post by mattraven Wed May 02, 2012 9:13 am

that back 5 forwards for the 2009 team

4. Kitchener
5. Gaskell
6. Lawes
7. Clarke
8. Fears

that is seriously good judging from now looking back. that could be the english pack in 2 years given a couple of injuries, and maybe leaving out gaskell

more serious note kvesic being in the u20s has annoyed me slighty, i would have him as the midweek 7 on the senior tour. he has laready played at u20 level, and as a 6, which i dont think is his long term position. i hope that for this tournament he will play at 7, with maybe sisi going to the blindside

yarde is a player whom i looking forward to seeing. heard a lot about him for a couple of years now hope he lives up to the hype!

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Post by DaveM Wed May 02, 2012 9:33 am

I'm pretty sure Watson is injured. I think Daly probably is to, and even if he is fit for the last Wasps game that they'll want to give him a rest over the summer.

I think Bell is going as a FB (although his last appearance was an impressive one at FH for Leeds), and Addison primarily as an OC. It's a big call taking Slade given how little rugby he's had this season and Elliot is also quite under-cooked. Sisi has gone past Vunipola very quickly. I'm glad to see Price has dropped out, but I think Bassett still has something to prove in terms of belonging at this level.

I'd imagine our 'best' side, which may not ever start a game given the JWC rotation rules is:

1. Luke Cowan-Dickie
2. Koree Britton
3. Kyle Sinkler
4. Sam Twomey
5. George Merrick
6. Ben Nutley
7. Matt Kvesic
8. Jack Clifford

9. Ben Spencer
10. Tom Heathcote

11. Jamie Elliot
12. Ryan Mills/ Sam Hill
13. Charlie Walker
14. Marland Yarde
15. Ben Ransom

Missing 3 very talented players (four, if you count Nowell), but still a fine side if the scrum can hold its own and the players play as a team rather than as a group of individuals.

The best thing about this squad is two fine, and contrasting, ICs.

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Post by yappysnap Wed May 02, 2012 9:39 am

Do people think this is a stronger or weaker squad compared to the last two/three years? To my mind it's weaker then last years but better then the 2010 squad.

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Post by anotherworldofpain Wed May 02, 2012 9:42 am

New coach too?

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Post by DaveM Wed May 02, 2012 9:47 am

Confirmed: Watson has a broken foot and Daly is being rested this summer due to the amount of rugby he's played this season.

As for this season versus the last couple, I'd say last year's pack was better than this season's if only because some of the key players were older and that matters a lot at this age. However, I reckon the half-back unit this season is stronger, the 12s are both better 12s than Farrell (even if Hill is still 18), Yarde is better than Short, Walker is probably as good as Daly was last year and Ransom is better than he was a year back.

So, I'd say the backs are better and the pack worse this year than in 2011. This despite missing 3 hugely talented backs.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed May 02, 2012 8:03 pm

However, I reckon the half-back unit this season is stronger

I'm not sure about that. Cook added good impetus and controlled the forwards well last year whilst Ford's ability to bring players onto the ball whilst flat on the gainline gave England continual go forward. Ford did win the IRB Young Player of the Year as well. Not sure Heathcote and Spencer are particularly well suited as Spencer is a more measured tactical option whilst Heathcote much prefers to be attaking ball in hand.

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Post by yappysnap Wed May 02, 2012 8:14 pm

Ford is the best age grade 10 we have and possible the best 10 at his age i've seen. For an 18 year old he is very very well rounded.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed May 02, 2012 8:36 pm

Ford is the best age grade 10 we have and possible the best 10 at his age i've seen. For an 18 year old he is very very well rounded

If he had all the skills he has now plus was built like Twelvetrees he'd be Tigers first choice as well as the guarenteed starter for England. His kicking game from hand has already far surpassed Flood (in fact I think Flood's has improved because of him training with Ford this season), he plays flat and distributes very much in the SH style bringing players into the game at pace, he has the eye for a gap and a good touch of acceleration and his place kicking is improving nicely. The only issues really are that he is 5 foot 9 and 12 and a half stone which means he will always go backwards in contact even though he is 100% committed and will bring his man down.

A pre season bulk up will be good for him, JOC, Lambie and Laidlaw are of similar heights but are bulked out correctly so Ford needs to follow in their example.

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Post by beshocked Wed May 02, 2012 9:15 pm

Why do England get South Africa in their pool yet again?

As the 2nd ranked best side in the world you would think they would avoid a SH side at least once?

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Post by Cumbrian Wed May 02, 2012 10:43 pm

Considering it is in S.A. and it has been a while since they have beaten us at this level, things become that little bit harder. I might be being pessimistic here, but we'll do well to qualify out of our group.
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Post by DaveM Thu May 03, 2012 6:00 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
However, I reckon the half-back unit this season is stronger

I'm not sure about that. Cook added good impetus and controlled the forwards well last year whilst Ford's ability to bring players onto the ball whilst flat on the gainline gave England continual go forward. Ford did win the IRB Young Player of the Year as well. Not sure Heathcote and Spencer are particularly well suited as Spencer is a more measured tactical option whilst Heathcote much prefers to be attaking ball in hand.

I thought we lacked a top class SH last season, where-as Spencer is excellent. Ford was superb last year, but Heathcote is a year older and far more experienced than Ford was. Will Heathcote do as well as Ford did? Perhaps not, but Spencer is well ahead of Cook and I therefore think the Heathcote-Spencer combo is superior.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu May 03, 2012 7:47 pm

I can see where you're coming from but last year Cook's style suited Ford down to the ground, ok Cook wasn't setting the world alight but as a combination they understood each other and it worked. Spencer and Heathcote from what I've seen have very different styles, Heathcote will be wanting quick ball so he can play wide and fast with the kicking game second to the passing game. Spencer is very different, he is a tactical option that likes his box kicking and his forwards doing the carrying with the backs given the ball sparingly, that will provide Heathcote with protection but at the same time it will limit his attacking intent. I think Robson of Gloucester would actually suit Heathcote's style more.

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Post by Dubbelyew L Overate Thu May 03, 2012 8:40 pm

I understand exactly what you're saying about Spencer, but to be fair to him we've only really seen him playing for Sarries, and playing their way. He may well have the expansive skills and style to suit the way we expect this England team to play - he's certainly proved he has the big-game temperament.

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Post by DaveM Fri May 04, 2012 8:05 am

Exactly what I was going to say - it's very difficult to judge what any Sarries players true abilities and natural game are, given the incredibly limited game they choose to play.

Robson has obviously got talent, but he doesn't fully convince me yet. Plenty of time though.

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Post by timhen Fri May 04, 2012 9:07 am

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:I understand exactly what you're saying about Spencer, but to be fair to him we've only really seen him playing for Sarries, and playing their way. He may well have the expansive skills and style to suit the way we expect this England team to play - he's certainly proved he has the big-game temperament.

He also started both this year's Saxons games (scored against the Wolfhounds) and came of the bench for two games in the U20 6N.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue May 08, 2012 11:25 pm

It was a good weekend for some of the U20 players going to the tournament. Matt Kvesic was everywhere against Northampton, he was very good at the breakdown. I liked the little block he put in for one of the Worcester trys, he is becoming attempt at the the 'darker' arts of open side play.

Sam Hill played really well for the Pirates against Bristol. It's the first time I've had the chance to see him play (I think) and he seems like a really powerful carrier who can pick a good line.

Will Addison scored a fantastic try too.
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Post by bluestonevedder Tue May 08, 2012 11:45 pm

Cumbrian wrote:It was a good weekend for some of the U20 players going to the tournament. Matt Kvesic was everywhere against Northampton, he was very good at the breakdown. I liked the little block he put in for one of the Worcester trys, he is becoming attempt at the the 'darker' arts of open side play.

Agree with that, Kvesic was very good. Made some cracking tackles, and there was one that really stood out, but I can't for the life of me remember who it was on....

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Post by DaveM Wed May 09, 2012 9:34 am

Cumbrian wrote:It was a good weekend for some of the U20 players going to the tournament.

Didn't Yarde score a couple of tries too, plus Sisi started another game, and Bell made his first AP start at 10 (and played well apparently). Plus I think Harrison came on against Quins.

Particularly exciting if Kvesic is really starting to kick on.

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