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Ryan Giggs and SAF named Best Overall PL Manager and Player

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Post by GSC on Tue 15 May 2012, 3:23 pm

Don't think theres any debate over SAF, would've gone for Henry as best player tho.
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Post by Guest on Tue 15 May 2012, 3:26 pm

I don't have any arguments against either. Manager was nailed on, as good as Henry was (and to be honest still looked when he came back on loan) I think Giggs was a good choice for player of the Premier League. Henry and Shearer close 2nd and 3rd

But that might be the United bias in me :p

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Post by Kenny on Tue 15 May 2012, 3:34 pm

I would agree with both choices Giggs is a fantastic player ( i saw him play for England school boys a long long time ago , if only he had chosen England over Wales then we would have been sorted down the left wing for years ) and SAF well there hasn't been a better manager in football over the last 20 odd years .
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Post by lorus59 on Tue 15 May 2012, 3:40 pm

SAF was right choice for manager but much as I admire Giggs, for me Henry was the best player.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 15 May 2012, 3:48 pm

SAF was easily the right choice but I would have gone for Shearer as the best player with Giggs a close 2nd and Henry 3rd.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 15 May 2012, 4:17 pm

I don't think you could pick any 8 year block of Giggs' career that match the 8 Henry had at Arsenal but it's longevity that wins it for Giggs. There's no player more synonimous with the league than he as he's played in, and scored in, it every year it's been in existence!

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Post by Stella on Tue 15 May 2012, 4:19 pm

Fergie........nobody comes close

I would have gone for Henry or Shearer. Giggs has got it for longevity, more than anything else.

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Post by GSC on Tue 15 May 2012, 4:23 pm

It depends on your definition of best PL player I guess.

For me nobody was as good for an extended period as Henry. At times he was outrageous.

Few players have been as dominant as Ronaldo his last few years before leaving though. Surely he'd be up there had he not left.

Any defender love? Campbell, Ferdinand etc been v.good players.
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Post by Crimey on Tue 15 May 2012, 4:29 pm

I don't think you can argue with SAF getting it.

Giggs has got it because he's stayed at the top for so long rather than being superiorly talented, as I feel there have been better players, but not many can do it for as long as he can.

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Post by JamesLincs on Tue 15 May 2012, 4:49 pm

yeah giggs is the wrong choice. hes only played about 600 league games and only won about 30 trophies..

theyll look back and say "boy, that giggs wasnt very good was he"

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Post by Stella on Tue 15 May 2012, 4:53 pm

JamesLincs wrote:yeah giggs is the wrong choice. hes only played about 600 league games and only won about 30 trophies..

theyll look back and say "boy, that giggs wasnt very good was he"

Nobody is saying he isn't very good, just that there have been better players. Pires was arguably a better LM.
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Post by JamesLincs on Tue 15 May 2012, 4:56 pm

i respectfully disagree.

everyone has said he only won it because of his longevity, completely ignoring his accomplishments and records in the sport

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Post by dublfcynwa on Tue 15 May 2012, 5:22 pm

Stupid awards to cover up the fact that bacon face cracked under pressure and threw the league away.
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Post by GSC on Tue 15 May 2012, 5:27 pm

Medals don't really come into how good a player is for me.

Giggs is obviously a fantastic player, but personally Henry was better imo.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Tue 15 May 2012, 5:59 pm

Rubbish really, I think Giggs won the award because he has the most appearances for an outfield player in the league, not because he's been the best. Trophies don't make you the best player imo!
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Post by Crimey on Tue 15 May 2012, 7:09 pm

dublfcynwa wrote:Stupid awards to cover up the fact that bacon face cracked under pressure and threw the league away.

The awards were going to be announced now, no matter what the result of the Premier League...

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Post by Dave. on Tue 15 May 2012, 7:14 pm

He's played at the top club in the PL's history, and has been part and parcel of the PL since it's foundation. Giggs as best player in the history of the Premier League is a no-brainer for me.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) on Tue 15 May 2012, 7:17 pm

Couldn't argue with Sir Alex, Giggs or Henry in third. I never liked Shearer and never thought as highly of him as most. He wouldn't be in my top 3. I would have Scholes in third.
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Post by Josef K. on Tue 15 May 2012, 7:30 pm

Giggs's longevity seems to be overshadowing his talent, ironically. I voted for Henry myself, but have no issue with Giggs being the man.
The thing is about Henry, the team was built around him, so his talent, enormous as it was, was plainer to see. SAF has never really done that.

I'd like to know what the vote count was for best manager, I can't believe anyone in their right mind wouldn't vote for SAF.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Tue 15 May 2012, 9:30 pm

when I played more regularly in 2004/2005 my inspiration was always Henry, never even liked Arsenal but he was something else, like an exhibitionist!

Giggs was a fine player many years ago, but apart from a few special performances, couldn't hold a candle to Henry!

My top 5 premier lg players in no order:

Henry
Drogba
Ronaldo
Ginola
Okocha
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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) on Tue 15 May 2012, 9:42 pm

I would go for

1. Giggs
2. Henry
3. Scholes
4. Ronaldo
5. Gerrard
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Post by Guest on Tue 15 May 2012, 10:02 pm

The Arsenal 'invincibles' have been voted the greatest ever team of the PL era.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18070486

Any arguments with this?


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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) on Tue 15 May 2012, 10:09 pm

Not really but the Man U sides of 99 and 08 must have come close. Personally I would go for the Man U team of 08 but wouldn't argue with it at all really they were a fabulous side.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Tue 15 May 2012, 10:13 pm

People forget Arsenal would have lost to Portsmouth had it not been for a Pires dive in the unbeaten season, and in that season Arsenal only scored 73 goals and recorded 90 points, both were surpassed the next year by Chelsea who had 95 points.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 15 May 2012, 10:15 pm

would bet my mortgage on United of 98/99 to beat the invincibles. think that's a bit political to stop united winning every award going. the invincibles are an easy 2nd tho, great great side, probably followed by mourinho's chelsea then united 07/08 then possibly even Blackburn's title winning side.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) on Tue 15 May 2012, 10:20 pm

Personally I think the United side of 08 would have wiped the floor with lot of them. So much quality and experience not to mention Ronaldo one of the greatest players in the history of the game never mind the Premier League.
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Post by Gregers on Tue 15 May 2012, 11:29 pm

Congrats to both SAF and Giggsy even if Mourinho is a close second Wink

Seriously though the gap between these two and the rest is huge, Henry whilst being quality doesn't have the longevity of Giggs and that is what it must come down to.

Best side of the past 20 years? United 98-99 or Chelsea 05-07 for me. Then Chelsea 09-10/United 09-10 (God that was a great season!)

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Tue 15 May 2012, 11:44 pm

not to mention Ronaldo one of the greatest players in the history of the game
dear me..

Laugh
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Post by GSC on Wed 16 May 2012, 8:01 am

At this rate he will be.

Overshadowed by Messi maybe, but still has 101 goals in 112 games at Real, has a CL trophy and quite a few league wins.
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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Wed 16 May 2012, 8:07 am

Giggs obviously got it for longevity. I can think of 5 players of the top of my head who are better

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Post by davidl1061 on Wed 16 May 2012, 8:07 am

I agree that Ronaldo could be but to say that he currently is is a bit extreme.

Giggs has clearly won the award because he has been around in every season. I think he does deserve it for the way he has changed from a flying left winger to playing central midfield and still looking a quality player, he may not be able to do 90 minutes anymore but still has a massive impact for United

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:32 am

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Giggs obviously got it for longevity. I can think of 5 players of the top of my head who are better

Go for it....

(mine would probably be Ronaldo and Henry as the only obvious ones, Bergkamp Drogba Scholes Beckham Keane Viera also in with a shout. Maybe Shearer or Gerrard too, at a push)

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Post by Stella on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:34 am

The best teams, IMO have been:

Utd - 93-94
Utd - 98-99
Utd - 07-08

Arsenal - 01-02
Arsenal - 03-04

Chelsea - 04-05

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Post by Stella on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:35 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Giggs obviously got it for longevity. I can think of 5 players of the top of my head who are better

Go for it....

(mine would probably be Ronaldo and Henry as the only obvious ones, Bergkamp Drogba Scholes Beckham Keane Viera also in with a shout. Maybe Shearer or Gerrard too, at a push)

Gerrard is and was a better player than Beckham.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:41 am

Admittedly I've always rated Becks higher than most, so maybe I've been a bit over-zealous there. But equally I've never rated Gerrard as highly as some others as I think his Liverpool Superman status plasters over too many cracks and he has actually very little.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:41 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Giggs obviously got it for longevity. I can think of 5 players of the top of my head who are better

Go for it....

(mine would probably be Ronaldo and Henry as the only obvious ones, Bergkamp Drogba Scholes Beckham Keane Viera also in with a shout. Maybe Shearer or Gerrard too, at a push)

What you have said really minus Beckham. i would also have Zola there and Van Nistlerooy.

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Post by Stella on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:43 am

And Pires!
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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:44 am

I have to say, I would like to see Arsenal Invincibles v Man U 07/08. That would be a great mtach.

I would have to edge towards Arsenal though, very slightly

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Post by davidl1061 on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:53 am

I would never put Pires infront of Giggs and I dont think many other people would either

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Post by Stella on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:54 am

davidl1061 wrote:I would never put Pires infront of Giggs and I dont think many other people would either

Giggs has never been better than Pires was between 2001-2003.
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Post by Guest on Wed 16 May 2012, 9:59 am

SAF say no more.

Giggs still makes the game look ridiculously easy even at the age of 38. Can't imagine other players in the PL past or present could still look as good 20 years on bar probably Sheringham.

For me Bergkamp and Zola deserve a mention.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 16 May 2012, 10:05 am

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Giggs obviously got it for longevity. I can think of 5 players of the top of my head who are better

Go for it....

(mine would probably be Ronaldo and Henry as the only obvious ones, Bergkamp Drogba Scholes Beckham Keane Viera also in with a shout. Maybe Shearer or Gerrard too, at a push)

What you have said really minus Beckham. i would also have Zola there and Van Nistlerooy.

How could I forget the little Italian wizzard!! I'd have him level with Bergkamp tbh and Van Nistlerooy probably up there with Drogba and Shearer almost.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 16 May 2012, 10:06 am

Stella wrote:
davidl1061 wrote:I would never put Pires infront of Giggs and I dont think many other people would either

Giggs has never been better than Pires was between 2001-2003.

97-99 he was and when he first broke into the Prem he was more devastating as a teenager than Pires ever was as a seasoned pro.

Pires has nothing on his resume as good as Giggs goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup semi at Villa Park.

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Post by Stella on Wed 16 May 2012, 10:07 am

Difficult to compare a CF with a LW like Giggs.

The best widemen IMO have been:

Ronaldo
Beckham
Giggs
Pires
Ginola
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Post by Stella on Wed 16 May 2012, 10:09 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Stella wrote:
davidl1061 wrote:I would never put Pires infront of Giggs and I dont think many other people would either

Giggs has never been better than Pires was between 2001-2003.

97-99 he was and when he first broke into the Prem he was more devastating as a teenager than Pires ever was as a seasoned pro.

Pires has nothing on his resume as good as Giggs goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup semi at Villa Park.

I agree that Giggs was electric when he first came onto the scene but Pires was rightly named player of the year in 2002 and was superb for a brief period of time.
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Post by Il Gialloblu on Wed 16 May 2012, 10:52 am

KingKenny7Heaven wrote:I would agree with both choices Giggs is a fantastic player ( i saw him play for England school boys a long long time ago , if only he had chosen England over Wales then we would have been sorted down the left wing for years ) and SAF well there hasn't been a better manager in football over the last 20 odd years .

A common misconception, I'm afraid. He was never eligible to play for England.

He could play for the schoolboy team because he went to school in England, but this did not qualify him for the England youth or senior teams.

The rules are different now but back then, he had no choice.

Edit: I've just been doing some digging before posting and it seems my statement of him having no choice may have been wrong. It appears one of his Grandfathers was from Sierra Leone, so he could have chosen to play for them. But never England.

http://www.bagsynotin.net/2011/08/mythbusters-ryan-giggs-could-have-played-for-england/
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Post by Stella on Wed 16 May 2012, 10:53 am

Should have chosen Sierra Leone Very Happy
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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Wed 16 May 2012, 12:28 pm

but still has 101 goals in 112 games at Real, has a CL trophy and quite a few league wins.
--------
That is much easier to achieve when the other 16/18 teams have much less TV money than you. Barcelona/Real can pay much better than the rest, hence why they finish 30-40 points ahead of the 3rd team!
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Post by Crimey on Wed 16 May 2012, 4:57 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:but still has 101 goals in 112 games at Real, has a CL trophy and quite a few league wins.
--------
That is much easier to achieve when the other 16/18 teams have much less TV money than you. Barcelona/Real can pay much better than the rest, hence why they finish 30-40 points ahead of the 3rd team!

So I assume we can dismiss Messi as a great player as well?

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Post by GSC on Wed 16 May 2012, 5:01 pm

Crimey wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:but still has 101 goals in 112 games at Real, has a CL trophy and quite a few league wins.
--------
That is much easier to achieve when the other 16/18 teams have much less TV money than you. Barcelona/Real can pay much better than the rest, hence why they finish 30-40 points ahead of the 3rd team!

So I assume we can dismiss Messi as a great player as well?

50 goals against teams not Real Madrid in La Liga, complete scrub tbqh
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