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David Ferrer form

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Post by bogbrush Mon 04 Jun 2012, 12:57 am

Dropped 20 games in three matches.

I don't care who he's played, that's good form. Could he be the man to trouble Rafa? Great temperament, athletic, DHBH. I see him beating Murray. Granola tomorrow, I suspect he'll be off court after three sets.

A lighter coloured dark horse.
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Post by 10IS Mon 04 Jun 2012, 1:14 am

Agree. I think it was in Rome semi (?) where he lost a very tight first set. Needs to win the first set though to have some sort of chance.

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Post by laverfan Mon 04 Jun 2012, 3:09 am

The challenge with Ferrer is that he is a work horse but very few attack options.

BB... the second set was a bagel @Rome, IIRC. Wink

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Post by invisiblecoolers Mon 04 Jun 2012, 5:17 am

10IS wrote:Agree. I think it was in Rome semi (?) where he lost a very tight first set. Needs to win the first set though to have some sort of chance.
It was Barcelona where he took a set of Rafa I guess, was a real close game.

Rafa himself knows the threat and he wont take Ferrer lightly, if Rafa has a bad day then Ferrer will make Rafa pay, but if Rafa plays his A-game nothing Ferrer can do, but yest Ferrer's form in RG is as good as Rafa if not better. thumbsup

I dont think so Murray has any chance , it would be a real surprise if Murray can out smart Ferrer in QF provided if they both make it.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 04 Jun 2012, 5:30 am

certainly, the most likely semi besides the big 4 getting through intact is for Ferrer to get to the semis and face nadal. Ferrer is a tough fighter I just can't see him putting Nadal out over the course of 5 sets at RG. Maybe on a hardcourt, because I actually think that Ferrer while being a better clay court player is further away from Nadal on clay than he is on hardcourt. David is fit and strong but at his height the weight of Nadal's cross court forehand even starts to wear physcially and technically on Ferrer's solid two hander. Plus nadal just has more ability to take initiative as well and dictate with his forehand as opposed to ferrer.

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Post by hawkeye Mon 04 Jun 2012, 8:23 am

It's difficult to understand why Ferrer hasn't got a better record at RG. Is it the 5 set format? Maybe but Ferrer is great over 5 sets in the Davis Cup. Ferrer is extreemly fit so it's hard to imagine it's a physical problem.

Sometime I think it may be his emotions. Over 5 sets against a strong opponant there will be downs as well as ups. Ferrer is not always good when things don't go well and can get very down on himself. Whenever I see him hitting himself with his raquet I sort of know he's lost the plot and may well go on to lose no matter what the score.

The only time I can remember seeing this behaviour contained is when Ferrer has been playing Davis Cup. Having the Davis Cup captain there at the change of ends to calm him down and perhaps remind him how good he is appears to really benefit him. My theory is that Ferrer would really benefit from on court coaching during slams... of course he can't have that.

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Post by lydian Mon 04 Jun 2012, 10:42 am

Ferrer is a great role model to kids (and other pros). His tennis upbringing story is interesting, including being locked away in darkened spaces for hours by his coach asa boy upon poor performance. That's discipline, and he still has the same coach to this day. The fact he's solid top10 at 5'9 tall tells you what a fighter he is given he has to eek out his wins due to lack of a killer shot.

BUT. We're talking Nadal here, and a Nadal for me that has only started to click into top gear at Rome Onwards (yes despite wining MC and Barca...they were comeback events, but not top gear events). Nadal for me just wasn't right in the head for 12 mths...from start of clay season last year to this start. Even at Barcelona Ferrer faced an 80% Nadal. At Rome it was maybe nearer 90%...and he got bagelled 2nd set. And now at the French, for those of us who follow Rafa's progress with interest we are finally after a long long time starting to see the 'Rafa' of old emerge again. We don't know what has changed in his mind and life off-court but it's all starting to click again. He seems a happier person and not playing with that checked, somehow not all there inhibited presence he had hanging from him for ages...and yes even though he was reaching finals.

So what? Well...it all means the match between Nadal and Ferrer is all about Nadal. Anything above 85% Nadal form and Ferrer is toast...and I do expect Ferrer to come out of the match frazzled. Over 3 sets Nadal will have him running all over the place and eventually Ferrer's stamina (impressive as it is against other players) will start to wane. But its not just stamina, Ferrer also lacks that mercurial X-Factor that Nadal brings to court shot wise, his play against top players is too predictable, too metronomic and lacks weight....allows them to groove then push forwards. And as HE says he's mentally brittle too under extreme pressure.

Most tellingly Ferrer has only beat Nadal once on clay - when Nadal was 17 yrs old. Since then its 12-0 on this surface. Ferrer hates playing Nadal on clay , the 'dirt scars' of defeat go deep and you feel deep down when Ferrer enters the court vs Nadal he's already a beaten man as he knows his shotsvva re largely impotent against an on form Nadal. But hats off to Ferrer, he still embraces it as a challenge and often pushes Nadal him for a set. A set.
Great guy though...probably maximised the ability he was born with more than just about any other player and in my book that deserves respect. Not sure Nadal will show his game much though should they meet here...the last time they met at RG Nadal bagelled him.
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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 04 Jun 2012, 10:45 am

Ferrer has that unquantifiable talent and that is the absolute will to win. As emancipator said he lives by and dies by the sword. He takes risks which so often pay off. He is undoubtedly not the most talented of tennis players on tour but he has guts by the bucketload and had Sepi had half his will yesterday Djoko would have been packing his bags.
I disagree with you Hawkeye I dont believe he is governed by his emotions he can be very cool headed when he has his back to the wall. Ive never seen him have a tantrum or smash a racket.

We dont always get what we deserve in this life but certainly I believe that Ferrer deserves his ranking and hopefully will climb higher still.
Rafa never ceases to praise him and admits that Ferrer is a hard man to play. He deserves all the respect that the Spanish Armada afford him both on and off court

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 11:10 am

laverfan wrote:The challenge with Ferrer is that he is a work horse but very few attack options. ...
whaooo, I am going to have to pull you up right there. Work horse? No way, work pony, maybe.

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 11:20 am

What I like about Ferrer and Nadal is they generally always give it their maximum. They may not be firing on all cylinders at all times, but you get the impression they have tried their maximum for that particular day.

Watching Murray, however, you do tend to see more often than not, visible frustration, internal struggles, pained expressions and exhortations and slumped shoulders. However, he does seem to be reducing, getting rid of this, over the past several Slams.

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Post by laverfan Mon 04 Jun 2012, 11:53 am

Nore Staat wrote:
laverfan wrote:The challenge with Ferrer is that he is a work horse but very few attack options. ...
whaooo, I am going to have to pull you up right there. Work horse? No way, work pony, maybe.

Work Ass perhaps!. Laugh

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 11:53 am

When I watch Ferrer I can't help but think he is somewhat too limited and hence why he has never been on the brink of breaking into that top 4. Watching him at the moment against Granollers it is not spectacular. I think someone with a greater depth on groundstrokes like a Nadal, Federer or Djokovic he get's stuffed. If Murray utilises his FH he would whop Ferrer.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 04 Jun 2012, 11:55 am

No he IS a work horse.. horses come in all sizes and he has quite a few attack options LF.. and gaining more with ever tournament he plays.
He certainly is no ASS

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Post by lydian Mon 04 Jun 2012, 11:56 am

As much as I hate Granola Ferrer is playing a great match...he's at the absolute peak of his form here...making Tumbleweed look ordinary. Hang on, he is ordinary...

I like the racquets they both play with...Prince 03 Tour.
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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 04 Jun 2012, 11:58 am

legendkillarV2 wrote:When I watch Ferrer I can't help but think he is somewhat too limited and hence why he has never been on the brink of breaking into that top 4. Watching him at the moment against Granollers it is not spectacular. I think someone with a greater depth on groundstrokes like a Nadal, Federer or Djokovic he get's stuffed. If Murray utilises his FH he would whop Ferrer.

Then you have to ask how Ferrer still keeps getting to quarter and semi-finals LK. Murray may be able to whop Ferrer with his FH (providing its working) but if only he had Ferrer´s mindset eh ????

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Post by bogbrush Mon 04 Jun 2012, 12:23 pm

Interesting observations, and useful to put Haddie-nuffs observation alongside his age. How is David doing all this when he's well past his peak years?

The answer is that he's thriving because the tour has shifted the advantage so far from the attacking first-strike players to the grinders. David is a grinder par-excellence, hence him enjoying a great closing period to his career.
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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 04 Jun 2012, 12:36 pm

I wouldn´t argue with that BB. But everything comes to those who wait and if he finishes his career on a high note it can never have been more earnestly deserved. Years of really hard work and dedication has earned him his success which if only he had had more talent he would have reached the top.

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm

I agree with all the above.

It's an interesting point from BB. Ferrer is having the most successful stretch of his career. I agree that the slowish prevailing conditions have contributed to this.

Basically, in a tour full of grinders, he is amongst the best.

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm

Ferrer is looking like a beast.

I think he'll push Rafa hard for two sets but lose the third comfortably.

That's providing he gets past Murray - who I think will take care of Gasquet.

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Post by laverfan Mon 04 Jun 2012, 1:14 pm

Sometimes I feel the slowing down of courts came a bit too late for Ferrer. One admirable aspect of Ferrer is his attitude. If that quality alone could win slams, Ferrer would have 20 slams.

He is very good on HC as well, IMO, grass, being his weakest.

Would love to see him in a slam final before he retires. Very Happy

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Post by bogbrush Mon 04 Jun 2012, 1:20 pm

Yeah, pity for that his biggest day came at the Masters Cup final indoors against peak Federer. That was a difficult day for Ferrer.
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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 04 Jun 2012, 1:43 pm

laverfan wrote:Sometimes I feel the slowing down of courts came a bit too late for Ferrer. One admirable aspect of Ferrer is his attitude. If that quality alone could win slams, Ferrer would have 20 slams.

He is very good on HC as well, IMO, grass, being his weakest.

Would love to see him in a slam final before he retires. :D


So would I.. even if it was to receive the runner up trophy... one for the grand kids Daveeeed

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 1:50 pm

laverfan wrote:Sometimes I feel the slowing down of courts came a bit too late for Ferrer. One admirable aspect of Ferrer is his attitude. If that quality alone could win slams, Ferrer would have 20 slams.

He is very good on HC as well, IMO, grass, being his weakest.

Would love to see him in a slam final before he retires. Very Happy
I agree. I think he should receive a special runners-up trophy following his inevitable loss - a silver plated pestle and mortar.

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 2:01 pm

Nore Staat wrote:
laverfan wrote:Sometimes I feel the slowing down of courts came a bit too late for Ferrer. One admirable aspect of Ferrer is his attitude. If that quality alone could win slams, Ferrer would have 20 slams.

He is very good on HC as well, IMO, grass, being his weakest.

Would love to see him in a slam final before he retires. Very Happy
I agree. I think he should receive a special runners-up trophy following his inevitable loss - a silver plated pestle and mortar.

laughing

Although a wheat mill (full-size) might be more appropriate

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Post by hawkeye Mon 04 Jun 2012, 2:02 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ferrer has that unquantifiable talent and that is the absolute will to win. As emancipator said he lives by and dies by the sword. He takes risks which so often pay off. He is undoubtedly not the most talented of tennis players on tour but he has guts by the bucketload and had Sepi had half his will yesterday Djoko would have been packing his bags.
I disagree with you Hawkeye I dont believe he is governed by his emotions he can be very cool headed when he has his back to the wall. Ive never seen him have a tantrum or smash a racket.

We dont always get what we deserve in this life but certainly I believe that Ferrer deserves his ranking and hopefully will climb higher still.
Rafa never ceases to praise him and admits that Ferrer is a hard man to play. He deserves all the respect that the Spanish Armada afford him both on and off court

Haddie-nuff. Have you really never seen Ferrer hit himself with his raquet when things get tense? This is what I was talking about not the more usual angry raquet smash of many other players. I've seen it so many times. I can easily remember because when he does it I've been known to shout at the television "Control yourself David!" despite the no coaching rule... I hope I don't get caught. If on court coaching was allowed I would be the first to volunteer to hold Davids hand at the change of ends and tell him how good he is. Unless he's playing Nadal.... I would hold his hand whilst playing Federer but I doubt it would do him any good.

I have seen in the Davis Cup having someone to reasure him can help. One of the few times I've seen him recover from the sort of crisis where he started hitting himself. I can't remember the exact match but things were very tricky indeed. The captain talked constantly to Ferrer at the change of ends touching his head in a gesture that indicated "control yourself". David listened intently and started touching his own head and nodding then went back on court touching his head and muttering to himself and went on to win the match. He just needs someone to tell him he can do it and how good he is IMO.

I hate all the talk about Ferrer not being talented. Of course he is talented...

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 2:05 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:When I watch Ferrer I can't help but think he is somewhat too limited and hence why he has never been on the brink of breaking into that top 4. Watching him at the moment against Granollers it is not spectacular. I think someone with a greater depth on groundstrokes like a Nadal, Federer or Djokovic he get's stuffed. If Murray utilises his FH he would whop Ferrer.

Then you have to ask how Ferrer still keeps getting to quarter and semi-finals LK. Murray may be able to whop Ferrer with his FH (providing its working) but if only he had Ferrer´s mindset eh ????

3 QF's and 2 SF's I would never class as someone as high quality given you have players like Tsonga, Berdych and Soderling who have gone that step further.

Like I said his game is all about limitations. Players like himself and Almagro flourish under the conditions on Clay. If he can adapt it onto other surfaces, I would consider him a contender.

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jun 2012, 2:05 pm

HE you make him sound like a five year old.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 04 Jun 2012, 2:10 pm

Well it shows how often he does it then HE because I have never seen him and believe me I watch ALL the Spanish Armada.... He is talented but his talent has limitations he has pulled himself up by his bootstraps his tennis has been coached and coached and coached again ( touching his head and remembering what he has been taught). Where his talent lies is in his work ethic his mind set his will to win and his will to learn sheer guts and determination A credit to the game and to the Spanish squad and his country who all respect him Rafa more so. On top of which he is a delightful person.

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Post by lydian Mon 04 Jun 2012, 6:41 pm

Good points. Can we please be cler about something though when we talk of slowing courts. We have 4 kind of surface parts to the tour...

AO/IW...these courts are not slower. Plexipave is faster than previous sticky high bouncing Rebound Ace.
Deco turf II...these courts are slower but not all, Montreal has always been a little slower.
Grass...definitely slower.
Clay...same as before except the bizarre Teflon court called Madrid Masters.

Ferrer excels on clay courts, these are the same as always. Let's not do down this surface, it's meant to be slow. His clay results since 2008 are fairly consistent. But he gets to a few more HC finals than before 2007. He's been able to play well on HC for some time now...got to USO SF in 2007 and to Dubai final in 2009 (lost to Novak) and that's always fast. Performance wise he's been losing consistently around 23 matches per year since 2006. If you look at his Masters record its pretty consistent since 2005. So I don't necessarily buy this late developer stuff...don't forget he finished at his year end highest position #5 back in 2007 and got to the final of the WTF that year.

Yes he's 'grinder' but that's not to say he's not an excellent tennis player with talent...but he's been quietly producing the goods for years its just that no-one really realised before...but now he's older it's like people are finally realising that little guy isn't half bad. But what is clear is that many players are extending their peak beyond what we considered was possible before...now into their earlyn 30s...so clearly training techniques, diet, fitness regimes, etc, are making a difference. Viva la Ferrer!
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Post by invisiblecoolers Mon 04 Jun 2012, 6:48 pm

Ferrer is a warrior, and gives his 100% everytime he plays, but yea he doesnt have weapons to hurt somebody on the tennis court outside his stamina and will.

Would like to see him triumph against Rafa on a GS that too on FO, coz he deserves some accreditation and that can only be achived if he translates them into stats.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 04 Jun 2012, 6:52 pm

One of his nicnames is the Gladiator... suits him I think

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Post by laverfan Mon 04 Jun 2012, 9:59 pm

He won this DC tie on HC playing against Roddick and Fish in Austin all by himself (with Feliciano helping a bit).

He deserves credit for being the Spanish #2 and very admirable player when Nadal is not on the DC squads.

http://www.daviscup.com/en/results/tie/details.aspx?tieId=100016223

Also the DC 2011 final match against Del Potro, some amazing tennis did he play in the Olympic Stadium.

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