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PGA Tour: The Memphis Blues Again: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 06 Jun 2012, 3:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Extraordinary finish from Tiger Woods last Sunday - their respective scrambling on #16 representing the difference between Woods and Sabbatini. But the key for Woods was his play on the par-5's (birdied half of them) and, going forward, that will be the secret to the tournaments he can be competitive in.
(Not sure whether the biggest surprise was Tiger winning, or going head-to-head with Rickie Fowler and dusting him by 17 strokes - didn't see that coming, but a reminder that Fowler is just the latest of America's Young Ones to run out of gas; McIlroy also refuelling of course.)

2).Sabbatini is not really a divisive figure among golfers and golf fans, everyone seems to hate him.
But, for all the absurdities of his behaviour during his career I enjoy watching him play well. Golf sorely needs guys who say what they think and are not afraid to ruffle the status quo. He appreciates the history of golf more than most, is active in his various charitable endeavours beyond merely dishing out dosh, and is often voted by his fellow pros the greatest over-achiever in the marriage stakes. (Usually alongside the toothy grin of Stephen Ames and Furyk's bent beak and bald pate.)

3).Like Woods, Sabbatini is going through swing changes which, for him, started earlier this year. And you'd have to say that, if Memorial is anything to go by, he's bedding in those changes more quickly than some others.
Another swing-changer, Gary Woodland is all at sea and in danger of running aground. Since moving to Screaming Lord Butch his best Tour finish is 24th - he's almost a year away from his last Tour top ten yet being in last year's Tour Championship earned him a place in all the Majors. Not next year, though, unless Butchie gets him sorted out.

4).Last word on Tiger, until next week at least: Doug Ferguson reminds us that 35 of his 73 wins have come on just six courses. Firestone will be the last venue this year for 35 to reach 36 so don't hold your breath in the meantime.

5).FedEx has long been a staunch supporter of the PGA Tour in general, the Memphis tournament in particular, but they are seldom rewarded with a field befitting their commitment.
No exception this week and two of the leading players in the field are either rehabbing their body (Dustin Johnson) or their focus (Rory McIlroy). Zach Johnson is the in-form player in the field and McDowell is here too, whether as a Horizon chaperon or in a serious attempt to prepare for Olympic Club only he knows.

6).They're not like Dylan, stuck inside of Mobile, but FedEx are entitled to have "the Memphis Blues again" as this tournament likely suffers more withdrawals than any other, including that of favourite Tennessean Snedeker who's convalescing, hoping to be fit for Olympic Club.
But is this surprising? And what has to happen to reward one of the very best sponsors with a top class field??
The pros like the course, but question how smart it is to play Bermuda Greens the week before a US Open.
Wonder if the Tour has looked more closely in to holding the pre-US Open week event at a more geographically appropriate location, with similar grasses - they know the USGA's schedule almost a decade in advance after all.
And what about trying to do a better job of attracting overseas US Open-qualified golfers who are looking for tournament-level practice the week before the big one?

7).One overseas player in the field is unlucky loser the past two years, twice play-off runner-up Robert Karlsson, but he's in a terrible trot of form and I'd fancy his compatriot Freddie Jac who will be busy these next few weeks.
Regardless, the winner is likely to be someone for whom winning in Memphis will be an achievement (like Freddie), whether for career or sentimental reasons, rather than a mere practice jaunt on his way to San Francisco. Toms fits this category, Bryce Molder, Chris Kirk and Tommy Gainey also, while amongst youngsters little known players like Kevin Kisner could reward long odds speculation.

8).Harrington, McDowell and McIlroy are grouped together for Rounds 1 and 2; (not sure St.Padraig and Rory are compatible playing partners, but doubtless the Tour took this into consideration). Other Europeans include Martin Laird, Christian, Owen, Knox, Chopra and Stenson (who played so well for 63 Muirfield Village holes).

9).We mentioned two weeks ago that Senior Major Championships come thick and fast this time of year and there's another so-called Major this week, at Shoal Creek in Birminghaaaam, Alabama.
For some reason the Tour doesn't believe in a field divisible by three for this effort and just 77 old pharts are playing, Roger Chapman, Lyle and Langer the only Europeans. Apart from the fact that the prize fund is marginally higher than usual, and they play four days instead of three, there's nothing to distinguish this event from any other - not even a 36-hole cut as far as I can tell. But at least it's nice in a nostalgic way to see Chapman grouped with his one-time Walker Cup adversary Pavin.

10).Someone who certainly doesn't suffer Memphis Blues is sometime European Tour journeyman(!) Shaun Micheel.
Tournaments often post the career leading money-winner at their events, but I'd be surprised if the Micheel family isn't the all-time leading beneficiary of FedEx largesse as his father was one of the original pilots for Federal Express when Fred Smith absolutely, positively got the operation going in the early seventies.

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Post by Caito Sat 09 Jun 2012, 2:07 pm

I think that is a good point GPB, although I reckon Lawrie would have little chance of a pick anyway. He needs to qualify to get on the team. Picks will probably go to someone who makes a late surge or has a good recent RC record (e.g. Poulter). Lawrie needs to qualify and he clearly thinks this approach gives him the best chance.

I just don't agree that getting in the RC team is more important than the chance to win a major, especially when he could combine both given how he is playing.

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Post by robopz Sat 09 Jun 2012, 4:32 pm

Agree that it's VERY unlikely that Lawrie gets Ollie's pick... Seems the only way he could get that kind of attention is to do enough that would earn him a spot on the team anyway.

Just looking at the Euro Ryder Cup standings again Lawrie's gonna need to really cool off NOT to make the team... wherever he plays.

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Post by GPB Sat 09 Jun 2012, 6:22 pm

IMO: Lawrie position in the top 10 looks a lot more solid than it really is.

Even though Lawrie is second in the Euro list, I don't think he will be in the top 5 at the end of the year. Rose is going to pass him next week (if he finishes ~T40 or better) and many players can pass him with a win next week. He could be as low 4th or 5th in the standings after the US Open if Kaymer and hnson have a good tournament.

If GMac makes the cut next week he will pass Lawrie; And after today's tied for third and ~8.7 pts Hanson will pass him to with a ~Top 50 finish.

Fortunately Lawrie has got a big ~48 pt lead on Number 10 Colsaerts in the OWGR point lead.

I think Lawrie goes from second to fourth in the Euro Standings and from 5th to 7th or 8th in the OWGR standings.

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Post by robopz Sat 09 Jun 2012, 8:04 pm

GPB... The whole premise of my point was *IF* Lawrie continues to play reasonably well. The way I understand it, that's the whole point of what he's "thinks" he's trying to do is play better in as many tournaments as he can, and skipping those where he thinks he can't. The way I see it, if he has that kind of attitude about U.S. Open setups, then he probably is better off not going.

But heck who knows... it may be FAR easier to take a rest next week and finish 3rd or 4th in Germany the following week against 6 or 7 top-50 players instead of finishing 12-15th against 50 Top-50 players at the U.S. Open (rough equivalents in both Euros and OWGR points).

Also Lawrie is going to be playing a LOT through the Open Championship. He's in BMW Germany and Irish Open, and certain for the Scottish and Open Championship. He usually plays France as well, but with the extra week between the U.S. and British Open's this year... I'm not sure he'll want to play 5 straight. But that puts him in at least 4 of the next 5 if not 5 of 5. Probably at least as many events as any other serious challenger on the Euro or World point lists will play in 6 weeks.

PS: But again... don't get the idea I agree with his decision, but I understand the logic of Lawrie's plan. It sure worked for Kenny Perry. And even Westwood demonstrates that you can make TONS of OWGR points by performing very well in lesser events.

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Post by sirbenson Sat 09 Jun 2012, 8:32 pm

Mcilroy maybe contending but if he plays the way he is this week he will get punished next week

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Post by Leff Sun 10 Jun 2012, 1:58 am

When was the last time Davis Love won a tournament?

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Post by McLaren Sun 10 Jun 2012, 12:29 pm

Players about 10 years ago maybe.
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Post by sirbenson Sun 10 Jun 2012, 1:24 pm

I think Love won a fall event in 08.

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Post by Leff Sun 10 Jun 2012, 1:43 pm

I thought it was longtime ago, but Sirbenson is right. Love won Children's Miracle Network in 2008. He had a win in 2006 as well. If he win this evening, there will be a celebration at place called Davis Love Grill somewhere in Georgia. He is that kinda guy.

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Post by princedracula Sun 10 Jun 2012, 4:54 pm

C'mooooon Rooooorrrry!!!
C'mooooon Padraigggg!!!

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Post by dolfinack Sun 10 Jun 2012, 5:17 pm

Lads anyone know if Skysports are going to get their act together and get some golf on the telly before the tourney is over?

It all kicked off early and the round is halfway through. You'd think they would ditch one of the WWE raw programs or something and show some. I'm following it by text on PGAtour.com for crying out loud steam

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Post by dolfinack Sun 10 Jun 2012, 5:22 pm

Double post-a-rama. Looks like they're intending on firing it on at 1800 instead of 2000. Silly Virgin just haven't their arses updating their EPG. Good show.


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Post by Leff Sun 10 Jun 2012, 6:22 pm

This is a tough to predict. Three players tied at the top with 6 just one shot behind.

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Post by princedracula Sun 10 Jun 2012, 6:38 pm

This is a mad day.... between two tv's and a laptop I'm trying to keep up with the golf, Nadal-Djokovic and Spain-Italy!! Smile

Rory really needs a birdie at this last par 5...

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Post by Leff Sun 10 Jun 2012, 6:43 pm

Same here. Torres giving me acid reflux that I never had.

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Post by incontinentia Sun 10 Jun 2012, 6:48 pm

Could be a massive play-off in our future
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Post by incontinentia Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:19 pm

Very disappointing from Rory, anywhere but left on 18.



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Post by Leff Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:21 pm

incontinentia wrote:Could be a massive play-off in our future

or, Elvis the solo winner.

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Post by EmmDee57 Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:24 pm

Rory just had a Torres.

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Post by McLaren Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:39 pm

Rory wont be bouncing into olympic thats for sure.
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Post by princedracula Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:46 pm

One thing's for sure now... Levin will be playing the US Open next week.

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Post by incontinentia Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:48 pm

I think Rory just got superstitious and hit it in the water on purpose so he can win next week,

oh yes, come on Ireland!
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Post by neutral07 Sun 10 Jun 2012, 9:12 pm

Very interesting for next week with Donald being 90th in ball striking, don't think Olympic Lake Course will lend itself to that much waywardness. Winner next week will either be playing from the fairway or 1st cut, not 20 yards offline.

Think Westwood for highest placed European.

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?158

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Post by neutral07 Sun 10 Jun 2012, 9:14 pm

princedracula wrote:One thing's for sure now... Levin will be playing the US Open next week.

Thought he didn't qualify?

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Post by Leff Sun 10 Jun 2012, 10:36 pm

neutral07 wrote:
princedracula wrote:One thing's for sure now... Levin will be playing the US Open next week.
Thought he didn't qualify?

Spence Levin qualified for next week's US Open.

Here is the field:
http://www.usopen.com/en_US/players/index.html

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Post by Shotrock Sun 10 Jun 2012, 10:38 pm

Davis Love plays well, but has to feel good about all the American victories of late. Whether or not that translates into a RC victory remains to be seen, but a heck of a return for Dustin Johnson!

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Post by super_realist Mon 11 Jun 2012, 11:18 am

Success in strokeplay really doesn't matter a jot in terms of team matchplay. Look at the best Ryder cup players of the last decade. Not a major between them, and a poor record in us strokeplay events too.

I'd rather have Poulter, Donald, Westwood and Garcia in my team than Woods, Mickelson, Mullet Watson or Dustin Johnson. Although I think this is partly because Americans just don't seem to get international team sport as much as Europeans do. They have too many insular sports over there for anyone really to notice the rest of the world.

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Post by Shotrock Mon 11 Jun 2012, 1:54 pm

Agree that success in team matchplay also doesn't often translate well into strokeplay. As you point out, look at the major "o-fer" record for so many of the RC standouts.

Poulter, Donald, Westwood and Garcia?? - lots of RC firepower. Bet they wish this was an annual event.

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Post by John Cregan Mon 11 Jun 2012, 2:35 pm

I bet Westwood, Donald, Poulter & Garcia would all give back all of their Ryder Cup victories for just 1 Major.............

While undoubtedly the RC is a great event, it can't be regarded that high up on anyone's CV given that (for eg) the event excludes(obviously) a large proportion of the games elite players

I tend to agree with McIlroy's original assertion of it being an "exhibition"...albeit a great one.........

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Post by super_realist Mon 11 Jun 2012, 2:40 pm

Im sure they probably would john, however we weren't talking about that we were talking about how your strokeplay history means nothing in the context of Ryder cup, so while Davis love might be nursing a semi in regard to the form of his players, it means sweet f.a in how theyll do in the ryder cup.

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Post by John Cregan Mon 11 Jun 2012, 3:47 pm

SR,

Agreed........the RC is all about momentum. Although certain players in wretched form going into a RC (Parnevick 2002, Harri 2010) definately brought that wretched form with them......................Then fellas who are "iffy" can completely play above themselves in a RC (eg Overton 2010)................

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Post by Shotrock Mon 11 Jun 2012, 4:33 pm

99% of all professional golf is based upon medal play. And when match play is the order of the day, it's mostly individual match play and not team events. But, those events are certainly fun to watch.

Americans don't get international team sports as much as Europeans? -- silly stereotype. When America lost the RC it's not because they were confused about "team play" it's because they were outplayed.

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Post by Slowride Mon 11 Jun 2012, 8:26 pm

Shotrock wrote:Americans don't get international team sports as much as Europeans? -- silly stereotype.

not a silly stereotype at all its a fact

name me one international fixture in any sport that generates as much passion as any of the following

england v australia - cricket
england v scotland - football
brazil v argentina - football
england v new zealand - rugby
india v pakistan - cricket
england v argentina - football
new zealand v australia - rugby

maybe USA v russia at ice hockey 30 years ago - that's about it

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Post by Shotrock Mon 11 Jun 2012, 8:51 pm

Slow -

You seem to be confusing fan passion with team execution.

Name me the American teams the have done poorly because they "don't get international team sport"? (And, how would you support that conclusion anyway?)

US teams, like all national teams, under perform and over perform. US Soccer team in the World Cup went as far as England not long ago, but hardly a powerhouse like England. US Baseball and Basketball teams have been sent home early numerous times in recent years.

Once again, a silly stereotype.



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Post by neutral07 Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:13 pm

Slowride wrote:
Shotrock wrote:Americans don't get international team sports as much as Europeans? -- silly stereotype.

not a silly stereotype at all its a fact

name me one international fixture in any sport that generates as much passion as any of the following

england v australia - cricket
england v scotland - football
brazil v argentina - football
england v new zealand - rugby
india v pakistan - cricket
england v argentina - football
new zealand v australia - rugby

maybe USA v russia at ice hockey 30 years ago - that's about it

Serbia vs Croatia - football
Serbia vs Albania - football
Greece vs Cyprus - football

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Post by neutral07 Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:35 pm

Shotrock wrote:Slow -

You seem to be confusing fan passion with team execution.

Name me the American teams the have done poorly because they "don't get international team sport"? (And, how would you support that conclusion anyway?)

US teams, like all national teams, under perform and over perform. US Soccer team in the World Cup went as far as England not long ago, but hardly a powerhouse like England. US Baseball and Basketball teams have been sent home early numerous times in recent years.

Once again, a silly stereotype.



Excellent courses in Philly?

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Post by super_realist Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:46 pm

Shotrock wrote:Slow -

You seem to be confusing fan passion with team execution.

Name me the American teams the have done poorly because they "don't get international team sport"? (And, how would you support that conclusion anyway?)

US teams, like all national teams, under perform and over perform. US Soccer team in the World Cup went as far as England not long ago, but hardly a powerhouse like England. US Baseball and Basketball teams have been sent home early numerous times in recent years.

Once again, a silly stereotype.



Shotrock, It wasn't a denigration of American sport, merely expressing the difference between how Europe and USA might experience international team events. It's not that they don't do team events, rather America as a nation prefer to partake in more insular American orientated sports.

Americas top sports are US Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey, Nascar, Indy 500, Tractor Pulling, Rodeo etc, sports that have virtually no international competition to them and very little interest (bar a few basketball (Greece, Croatia, and Japan in rounders, sorry baseball). Fair enough there are a few countries big on basketball, but no international tournament similar to the World Cup that I am aware of. This is also probably a reason for their fans only having one very boring song "USA, USA, USA" whenever they finally do play something outside of their borders, they simply don't have much experience of how others behave.

What I'm saying is that Americans have less experience and knowledge of playing in big international competition in team events and no major international rivalries throughout history to rival anything we have in Europe, some of our sports are older than your country. Therefore the exploits of individuals in a different format of the sport means nothing in the context of international team sport. Whereas Europe have players with far less individual standing and achievement in the game but over the last 25 years have punched well above their weight in the Ryder Cup, due in part to a better understanding of international team sport. America it looks are only just beginning to understand that there isn't an I in team when it comes to Ryder Cup.

Furthermore, England are not an international powerhouse in Football, they'd like to think they are but they aren't, not even close, they are a second rate nation as are America in fact America probably do just as well in recent World Cups as England.

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Post by neutral07 Mon 11 Jun 2012, 10:12 pm

super_realist wrote:
Shotrock wrote:Slow -

You seem to be confusing fan passion with team execution.

Name me the American teams the have done poorly because they "don't get international team sport"? (And, how would you support that conclusion anyway?)

US teams, like all national teams, under perform and over perform. US Soccer team in the World Cup went as far as England not long ago, but hardly a powerhouse like England. US Baseball and Basketball teams have been sent home early numerous times in recent years.

Once again, a silly stereotype.



Shotrock, It wasn't a denigration of American sport, merely expressing the difference between how Europe and USA might experience international team events. It's not that they don't do team events, rather America as a nation prefer to partake in more insular American orientated sports.

Americas top sports are US Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey, Nascar, Indy 500, Tractor Pulling, Rodeo etc, sports that have virtually no international competition to them and very little interest (bar a few basketball (Greece, Croatia, and Japan in rounders, sorry baseball). Fair enough there are a few countries big on basketball, but no international tournament similar to the World Cup that I am aware of. This is also probably a reason for their fans only having one very boring song "USA, USA, USA" whenever they finally do play something outside of their borders, they simply don't have much experience of how others behave.

What I'm saying is that Americans have less experience and knowledge of playing in big international competition in team events and no major international rivalries throughout history to rival anything we have in Europe, some of our sports are older than your country. Therefore the exploits of individuals in a different format of the sport means nothing in the context of international team sport. Whereas Europe have players with far less individual standing and achievement in the game but over the last 25 years have punched well above their weight in the Ryder Cup, due in part to a better understanding of international team sport. America it looks are only just beginning to understand that there isn't an I in team when it comes to Ryder Cup.

Furthermore, England are not an international powerhouse in Football, they'd like to think they are but they aren't, not even close, they are a second rate nation as are America in fact America probably do just as well in recent World Cups as England.


Basketball does have World Championship and teams have to play qualifiers just like there are qualifiers for Olympic.

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Post by Shotrock Mon 11 Jun 2012, 10:19 pm

Super - I absolutely could not make the stretch in logic you seem to be making here. "Americans have less experience and knowledge in playing in big international competition in team events ... therefore the exploits of individuals in a different format of the sport means NOTHING in the context of international team sport"? A few comments ...

Teams turn over for most every event. For each US Hockey team that wins it all, there have been teams that were also rans. This has almost nothing (IMO) to do with the "cultural" landscape and lots to do with the makeup of the specific team and the coaching.

Do you think for a moment that the US RC team that lost in Wales was chock full of better players? The Euro team was loaded, and the better team won, but it was a close competition.

No "I" in team? Is there a more over-used cliche? (They say if you look close enough, however, there's a ME).


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Post by super_realist Mon 11 Jun 2012, 10:28 pm

SR,

It's pretty clear that in recent Ryder Cups America have a better grasp of the team ethic, they've admitted as much themselves. It's been a lot closer since the days of their 18.5-9.5 holocausts that happened on both sides of the Atlantic. Considering how derided the European Tour is and how much more lauded the PGA is, isn't it odd how Europe prevail far more frequently than the supposedly stronger American's

We have international sport ingrained in us since we are old enough to be able to play or watch sport. Rivalries between neighbouring nations are far stronger than between two franchised teams which might become something different by the time the next fixture comes along.

The bottom line is that every time a Ryder Cup comes around, people start looking at strokeplay records and major hauls, and usually the Americans have the upper hand in this department, when demonstrably this means nothing at all, because Ryder Cup is team matchplay and the continent with the players who have achieved less but have a better team ethic has done better.

It may not be the sole reason, but it certainly counts for something.

You see it in other sports too.

It may seem like I'm trying to urine on your bonfire by saying that American's don't really get international team sport, but the truth is they partake in so few international team sporting events at a decent level, that it must have some effect.




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Post by NedB-H Mon 11 Jun 2012, 10:56 pm

super_realist wrote:Shotrock, It wasn't a denigration of American sport

...

Americas top sports are US Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey, Nascar, Indy 500, Tractor Pulling, Rodeo etc, sports that have virtually no international competition to them and very little interest (bar a few basketball (Greece, Croatia, and Japan in rounders, sorry baseball). Fair enough there are a few countries big on basketball, but no international tournament similar to the World Cup that I am aware of. This is also probably a reason for their fans only having one very boring song "USA, USA, USA" whenever they finally do play something outside of their borders
Fair enough if you want to make a serious point super. But if you don't want people to think you're being denigrating, you should probably make your arguments sound less... denigrating.

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Post by super_realist Mon 11 Jun 2012, 11:19 pm

There's no way of disguising a fact Ned, America and International Team Sport isn't something that they have a great deal of experience or history with compared to European sport.

Perhaps I was actually denigrating them for it, but you don't have to take it as a slur, it's perfectly true that America don't have a long heritage of international rivalry in team sports, so how would they be expected to know how to play that way?

All I want is for people to stop talking up the likes of Watson and Johnson for winning strokeplay events as if this automatically means they are going to be Ryder Cup heroes simply because of that, when it's nothing of the sort and completely unrelated.

It's like saying Vanessa Feltz can ride a horse round her yard, so she's got a good chance in the National. The argument of good strokeplay player, doesn't mean you'll be good in a team matchplay tourney, especially if you come from a heritage of not really playing team games internationally.

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