Euro 2012: Day 4 Thread

[Duty281]

France v England (17:00 ITV 1)
Ukraine v Sweden (19:45 BBC 1)

The 4th and final group commences tomorrow and it starts with a mouthwatering game between England and France. France are favourites for the game and some people's pick to win the whole thing, but never say never for England. The day is rounded off by co-hosts Ukraine playing the unfancied Swedes.

Come on England!

[whocares]

morning everyone.

France likely starting 11 :
Lloris - Debuchy, Rami, Mexès, Evra - Cabaye, Alou Diarra, Malouda - Nasri, Benzema, Ribéry

their weakness lies in their defense for a change : abidal,saga ainjured. Evra and Mexes clearly in average form if not poor. Diarra form has been pretty random has well but at least the forwards are starting to show something.
france 3 - england 2 (or can be easily the other way around !)

[Guest]

It's all well and good saying France have a poor defence but you've got to have the ball and attack them to be able to cause them trouble. Italy attacked a poor Spain defence and were unlucky not to have scored two or three. My fear is that we will setup so defensively it will be painful to watch. France will have 70% possession and if we're chasing the ball in 30 degrees then they will pick us off in the second half. We should go 4-4-3 and take them on, not playing this 4-5-1 with Young supporting. Your just inviting pressure all game and hoping you score from a set-piece.

Prediction France 2-0 England

[Ent]

We should go 4-4-3 and take them on, not playing this 4-5-1 with Young supporting.

If only we could all have an extra player

[Beer]

If Downing is playing with Milner we will have literally no strength in our attack. It's gonna be a containing job. He may as well play 4-6-0.

John is completely right to say we need to go at them. As much as i might get torn to shreds for this, i would play Carroll over Welbeck for this game. That French backline is there for the taking and Carroll would batter Mexes et al. Get Young and Oxo on the wings running at them and let Gerrard, Parker and Milner mop up.

France 2-0 England

[JamesLincs]

what time will it be there at the start of the second half? i thought it was getting on pretty late into the night by that time. i dont rate that midfield 3 at all. fantastic front 3, but diarra, malouda and cabaye, hardly world class. im confident that if we keep ribery quiet we could possibly win this game

[Crimey]

I don't think Downing is the real problem, he's already the scape goat of the side. I've watched Downing all year and on the left, where he will probably be played for England, he was much better than on the right. He did actually create a fair few chances, but as well documented the problem was converting them.

I don't think Milner on the wing is the right way to go, if we are going to play defensively, we need some pace and Milner is horribly slow for a winger, I'd play Walcott on the right, Downing on the left, Carroll up top with Young behind him. But Young needs to get into the midfield so that Parker and Gerrard don't get over run.

I agree that Carroll would be a better option up top for this game because he can dominate those centre backs, and Welbeck makes a better impact sub. Carroll is best when he's started, bring him off the bench and it ends up with the rest of the team just booting it up to him. Welbeck would be a better option to bring off of the bench if we're chasing the game.

[JamesLincs]

im also in favour of starting carroll. milner is going to struggle if hes having to run up and down. hes often struggling after 45 minutes. remember the usa game? didnt he come off after 20 minutes?

[Crimey]

what time will it be there at the start of the second half? i thought it was getting on pretty late into the night by that time. i dont rate that midfield 3 at all. fantastic front 3, but diarra, malouda and cabaye, hardly world class. im confident that if we keep ribery quiet we could possibly win this game

They're an hour ahead, so they kick off at 6, second half at 7.

I do think we're overrating the French a bit. They've got a good attacking trio, but Ribery and Nasri are notorious for disappearing on big occasions. I have yet to see why Ribery is so highly rated and Nasri has struggled at City just failing to impose himself on games. Benzema is the biggest threat.

[whocares]

for the 1st time since 2006, Ribery has shown glimpses of his bayern form in the french shirt. Nasri also becoming the valuable player he was 2 years ago and linking pretty well with Benzema. Malouda and Giroud were also good during the preparation games : iceland, serbia and estonia are not world beaters granted but at least there was some real progress made in terms of creativity and teamspirit. Nothing is perfect for sure (Evra is still there for a start) but am feeling vaguely optimistic and willing to watch them play a full 90 minutes (something that didnt happened in the last 4 years).

[Crimey]

Rumours are starting that Oxlade-Chamberlain is starting instead of Downing, heard from Daily Mail's chief of football correspondent.

[Hoggy_Bear]

Oxlaide-Chamberlain to start on the left for England according to SSN and the BBC.
Full team Hart, Johnson, Terry, Lescott, Cole, Milner, Gerrard, Parker, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Young, Welbeck.

[Crimey]

It's a big risk to start Chamberlain in this game.

[Beer]

If that's true then i'm buzzing!

[Beer]

It's a big risk to start Chamberlain in this game.

They won't have scouted Oxo. It's a risk worth taking. It means England are more likely to be 4-3-3 going forward and 4-5-1 on the back foot.

[Hoggy_Bear]

It's a big risk to start Chamberlain in this game.

So much for Hodgson being a 'safety first' manager.

[Beer]

It's a big risk to start Chamberlain in this game.

So much for Hodgson being a 'safety first' manager.

It's probably all a hoax and Downing does start, with Rob Green in goal.

[JamesLincs]

id rather we used him as an impact sub in the second half. i actually hope we start with downing

[Crimey]

The problem I see with Chamberlain, and I think we saw it happen in the Belgium game, he's going to be desperate to make a name for himself which could become a detriment to the side as a whole. He'd make a better impact sub if we're chasing the game.

[Beer]

I think he's mature enough not to let that happen. He doesn't have that headless chicken mentality that Walcott has.

Neville has been instrumental in bring the Ox through and he probably told him to go out and enjoy the Belgium game. This game is different. Neville knows the expectation here. He also knows to learn from what happened with Walcott. I fully expect the Ox to be ready for this, mentally and physically.

[Hoggy_Bear]

4-3-3 would be interesting.
Can't see it though, Hodgson's not THAT adventurous...








...or is he?

[Beer]

It won't set out as 4-3-3. It'll be 4-4-1-1....

But, i would imagine the idea is this....

Going forward...

Milner Gerrard Parker

Young The Ox

Welbeck

But defensively....

The Ox Miner Parker Young

Gerrard

Welbeck

[Crimey]

Young will behind the striker, Milner on the left, Gerrard in the centre with Parker.

It does beg the question what Walcott has to do to play. He's the highest scoring English winger last year and got as many assists as Young and surely offers a lot of things similar to the Ox.

[Beer]

Yeah, got em the wrong way round!

Walcott has never flourished at International Level. Defoe was the second highest English goalscorer yet can't buy a game at International level. Some players just don't suit this level if they don't play to your strengths.

[Crimey]

I rate Defoe though, I'd rather play Defoe than Welbeck, but I think that's probably just me.

[Guest]

Big risk starting OX, thought he was poor vs Belgium trying way too hard to impress. Attacking play is my main worry for England. Milner will be occupied with doubling up on Ribery, so his attacking threat will be limited and he doesnt even have the explosive speed to aid in our counter attacks. We're gonna be surrendering possession too easily because Welbeck will have no support and won't be able to hold it up & if the French have done their homework they will know that marking Young out the game with Diarra basically neutralises any attacking threat we have. I'm not a fan of Walcott but surely putting him up against Evra was a no-brainer? Evra has been in decline for the last couple of years, has no pace and would be running scared of Walcott. French will dominate possession and I would expect us to start off by attempting to play football on the floor but the realising we can't and then basically defending too see out the first half. Plan will be to keep it to 0-0 and then send on Carroll with 20 mins left and hit the long ball.

Think it's gonna be a long evening of chasing the ball in those conditions for the lads.

[Crimey]

I think people will be disappointed by the Ox today, heard some people on the BBC feed saying it's good to see Roy picking on form which is absolutely ridiculous, Chamberlain wasn't even playing for most of the end of the season and he didn't play much better against Belgium than Downing did against Norway.

Unfortunately, as much as I usually don't think Hodgson would do it, I think that media and fan pressure has made him start Chamberlain ahead of Downing.

[Beer]

It's not that Crimey. I think it show's that Roy isn't going for the obvious options and that he's prepared to try things. Face it, with the injuries we have, few people give us a chance against the French, going with Ox show's he's prepared to take a gamble. It's win/win for Woy.

If we beat them, he's justified in picking Ox.

If we lose, nobody will criticise him for taking a gamble on someone young when your only other option is Stewart Downing.

[whocares]

havent see much of him but is Chamberlain as good as Walcott ?
Agree with John : Walcott pace would have caused some serious problem to Evra.

[Beer]

havent see much of him but is Chamberlain as good as Walcott ?
Agree with John : Walcott pace would have caused some serious problem to Evra.

Yeah, Evra would eventually get tired of Chasing Walcott towards the corner flag and then passing the ball to Lloris for a goal kick.

[Thomond]

He is better then Walcott or at least has the potential to be.

[Crimey]

I think Downing has become a ridiculous scapegoat and is no where near as bad as people make out. I would definitely rather have Downing in the side than James Milner. I still remember the USA game where Milner was taken off after about 20 minutes because he was playing so poorly, he offers very little to the team and I think he'll show it today, he's worse now than he was 2 years ago because he's spent 18 months on the bench at City.

He had a poor season at Liverpool but he was playing in a team that had a poor season in general with only the defenders coming out with any credit.

[GSC]

Neither Downing nor Milner are any good out wide unfortunately.

Milner's far too slow to play on the wing, would've played Walcott

[Liam]

I think its right not starting Walcott. The only reason I would have him in my squad is for the last 20 mins, when the defenders are a little weary, then bring him on and his pace will cause all sorts of problems, such as the Arsenal-Liverpool champions league tie.

[GSC]

Yeah but Milner out wide offers nothing beyond lots of running to cover Johnson. Evra's going to be free to bomb on with Milner against him.

Defensively Evra can be got at, and we've picked a player that won't attack him. We've played to France's advantage there.

[Crimey]

The main problem I see though is that if as suspected Hodgson goes for a more defensive line-up, Chamberlain just doesn't seem to fit in, we could end up getting overrun in midfield.

[GSC]

Would France prefer to play Welbeck or Carroll?

Well Carroll's pretty bad and Welbeck isn't sooooooo...

[Liam]

I think Young has to drop back and pressure the holding midfielder for France in order to prevent France over running in midfield. In all honesty though I think France will be attacking down the flanks rather than the centre. The ball will be given to Ribery and Nasri whenever the chance occurs, with Debuchy and Evra rampaging forward constantly.

[GSC]

Malouda is pretty average. Nasri hasn't been great this year and I've never seen Ribery actually play that well.

[Crimey]

I've seen a lot of former French players saying they think that Welbeck won't be as effective against the two central defenders.

I'd rather we played Carroll, I'm really not impressed by Welbeck.

[GSC]

I'd have def played Valbuena or Ben Arfa over Malouda if I was France

[GSC]

Carroll hasn't been effectively against anybody this year. Welbeck probably suits us better if we're going to try and counter.

[Crimey]

He dominated the Chelsea centre backs towards the end of the year in two games, the same Chelsea centre backs that were so praised for keeping out Barca and Bayern.

[GSC]

First goal key I feel. England can't afford to go behind early like Ireland did yesterday.

[Liam]

I'd have def played Valbuena or Ben Arfa over Malouda if I was France

Valbuena is a good player, small and agile and would cause Gerrard and Parker all sorts of problems in that hole. I don't think Ben Arfa is better than Nasri or Ribery but is a very useful player to bring on.

[GSC]

He came on and played well for 20-30 minutes granted. The other game meant nothing to Chelsea, who hadn't played well in the league anyway.

[GSC]

Ben Arfa can played through the middle or out wide though.

Its more I think Malouda's been incredibly average at best over the past 12 months.

[GSC]

The England 11 that started vs France in 2004.

David James
Gary Neville--Ledley King--Sol Campbell--Ashley Cole
David Beckham--Frank Lampard--Steven Gerrard--Paul Scholes
Wayne Rooney--Michael Owen

How time flies. 2 retired, 1 unretired, 3 semi retired.

[Liam]

Paul Scholes left wing, how England will rue the day they ever did that. He is twice the player Lampard and Gerrard will ever be and they made the biggest c*ck up of all time. He was the key to them winning any major tournament and they misused him and you couldn't blame him for retiring.

[GSC]

Ray Clemence snapped an achilles in a warm up?

Wrap Rooney in cotton wool.

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