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England vs West Indies, First ODI debate

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gboycottnut
trebellbobaggins
mystiroakey
Duty281
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alfie
msp83
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Post by msp83 Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:15 am

First topic message reminder :

So the ODI series between England and West Indies, the first of a few for England in this summer is getting underway today. After a test series that largely went according to plan for England, a greater challenge is what is awaiting them in the ODI series. To start with, West Indies are back to full strength, with their best ODI battsman, one of the best in the world in the format returning to opening the innings. Besides Chris Gayle, all-rounders Dwayne Bravo, Kiron Pollard, Andre Russell and Dwayne Smith are back for the visitors. On their day, all of them can turn a match in their favor. Denesh Ramdin might bat as low as 9, an indication of the power packed batting lineup that the West Indies have got. Their bowling unit too looks decent, Ravi Rampaul has form behind him from the test series, Darren Sammy might find the overhead conditions to his liking, Russell has got decent pace, Bravo and Pollard have a few variations going for them, Sunil Narine, despite his lowkey test debut has a pretty decent ODI record in his short career so far. Marlon Samuels and Chris Gayle should be the best available parttime support bowlers in the world at the moment. Bravo and Pollard are great additions in the field as well.
As far as England are concerned, the greatest advantage going for them is that they are playing at home. They have shown in the past that their bowlers, just like the case in other formats, are going to be quite a handful for any side, even more so if the overhead conditions also favor them. Alastair Cook the captain has established his position and authority in the ODI side through his consistent performance over the last year or so. Jonathan Trott has been a run machine in the format, and Eoin Morgan not too long ago, was as good a finisher as anyone else.
England's comforts end there, and then there are a few problems. With Kevin Pietersen's rather early retirement from the format, the opening combenation has yet again become an issue. The KP Cook experiment was starting to work well, and now Ian Bell, a very different player to KP in many ways, has been ask to deliver. Alastair Cook has turned himself around as an ODI player, Bell hasn't quite taken his ODI chances as yet. Will he be able to take the challenge head on? A top 4 of Cook, Bell, Trott and Bopara? Well not the most frightening thought for bowlers around the world as of now!!.
Many call the WI favorits, I won't go to that extend, England in their backyard is a strong enough proposition not to get into anything fancy like that. I would say 50-50, WI has the firepower, England have the bowling and conditions.
All in all, should be a much more close issue than the test series was.

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Post by alfie Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:34 pm

Another one gone...

I think Boycott has provoked them Smile

England favourites again ... Though with rain visiting we might have to look up those Duckworth-Lewis tables Sad

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Post by alfie Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:44 pm

Great catch Morgan clap

Pollard gone ... Game over I reckon.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:45 pm

Windies now way behind on the dl system.

They started well but, as I felt could happen, a couple of wickets go and the pressure is on massively. Yes still a run a ball but with a lot more wickets gone now.

Of course best might fancy it but this is a different game.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:46 pm

England were 113-2 at this stage so behind on runs but I feel the wickets in hand could be important.

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Post by alfie Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:58 pm

Lots of rain...Englnd to win on D-L

Goodnight all...

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:11 pm

Night Alfie. Looks like it. The wickets were the difference

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:25 pm

Explanation of DL on the BBC webpage commentary:

"To give some illustration of how wickets affect Duckworth-Lewis, the current "par" score after 23 overs with five wickets down is 170. Had only six wickets fallen, it would be 146, and with five down, it would be 126 - so the Windies would be ahead by one run. But if a sixth wicket had fallen, it would leap up again to 198. So, West Indies need to get back on the field again - and score another 50 or so runs in short order, without losing a wicket - if they're to get back into contention." Erm Erm

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Post by gboycottnut Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:58 pm

alfie wrote:Great catch Morgan clap

Pollard gone ... Game over I reckon.

But West Indies have their 2 best batsmen during the test series batting right now.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:00 pm

DL has kinda hurt the windies here- i wouldnt be happy about the situ if it was reversed. Shows it isnt perfect

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Post by Duty281 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:03 pm

How the fig does DL work? WI need 2 runs less but have 12 balls wiped away? Isn't there a better system?

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:10 pm

gboycottnut wrote:
alfie wrote:Great catch Morgan clap

Pollard gone ... Game over I reckon.

But West Indies have their 2 best batsmen during the test series batting right now.

That helped.

They do however have the monster that is Tino in waiting, this is not over.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:11 pm

Russell looks hurt. Windies could effectively be 8 down. Oh no he is ok ish.


Last edited by trebellbobaggins on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mystiroakey Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:12 pm

I actually like DL alot. 19 out of 20 it seems perfect or close to- this case isnt quite.. I think wickets need to be taken into considertaion when reducing the overs.(think s/r's in 20/20 over 50/50)

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Post by Duty281 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:15 pm

I still remember this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/8657510.stm

England make 191/5 in a T20, Windies make 30/0 in 3 overs before the rain comes. Then somehow DL calculates a target of 30 more to get from 22 balls. Easy as you like.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:16 pm

yep another crazy one. it does throw up some odd ones i agree. something needs tweaking i think

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Post by msp83 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:28 pm

WOW, Swanny does it again!!!!. Yet another wicket of a first over of a spel!!. My god he should ball in one over spels, seriously!!.

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Post by msp83 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:30 pm

Darren Bravo in at 9, and Russell has an ODI highest of 92!. Its almost over, but not quite as yet for the West Indies. Any more news on Gayle's injury?

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Post by msp83 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm

No 90s for Russell this time, Bresnan gets him with a good short ball.

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Post by msp83 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:37 pm

Another man, who ones blasted the Indians for 86 superb runs, Ravi Rampaul is now out in the middle with the younger Bravo!. How long will he last?

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Post by msp83 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:38 pm

Well he starts by crashing Swanny for 4!.

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Post by msp83 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:44 pm

Rampaul goes, Swanny gets his man.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:44 pm

Rampaul and Sammyback to normal then. Bit of life in the pitch and they're different players. Looked like Ramops thought he might have another big one,

No Tino out there?

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Post by gboycottnut Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:53 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:Rampaul and Sammyback to normal then. Bit of life in the pitch and they're different players. Looked like Ramops thought he might have another big one,

No Tino out there?

Bad mistake by the West Indies to leave out Tino Best as he would have made mincemeat of this average England test match bowling attack.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:55 pm

Good win for England as expected. Even if I am failing to see the point of ODI cricket.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:55 pm

Haha, yup they struggled with that dynamic pair earlier just like you warned.

Or, back on planet earthy, they a very good attack on a slightly lively pitch against a decent but performed less than average batting side and Tino wouldn't get luck again.

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Post by gboycottnut Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:15 pm

Duty281 wrote:Good win for England as expected. Even if I am failing to see the point of ODI cricket.


But it is soured somewhat because West Indies didn't have their best team available. No Chris Gayle and more importantly no Tino Best.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:17 pm

nothing sour about a win pal- its a win- this game is all about depth as all team sport is

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:22 pm

Love it, we're all talking up the legend Tino after one good innings.

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Post by gboycottnut Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:36 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:Love it, we're all talking up the legend Tino after one good innings.

Well he is the nearest thing that the West Indies will have to having a bowling all-rounder like an Ian Botham or an Andrew Flintoff!

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Post by mystiroakey Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:38 pm

maybe a broad lite or a vettori - but no botham or flinty

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:24 am

gboycottnut wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Good win for England as expected. Even if I am failing to see the point of ODI cricket.


But it is soured somewhat because West Indies didn't have their best team available. No Chris Gayle and more importantly no Tino Best.

England didnt have KP or Jesus Christ

I dont get where this idea that Tino Best is a) a good player and b) an all rounder comes from. He doesnt average above 13 in any format with the bat ( and thats skewed by his freak innings the other day). His test bowling average is 46 and his ODI average 37
All in all hes a place filler at best. The guys 30 years old and has only played a handful of international games, to put him in a bracket with Botham is laughable even by your standards.

Im really beginning to get the impression that you deliberately post stupid thing as a wind up.

So lets concentrate on Gayle. Yes they didnt have their grumpy mercenary who cant play if the temperature falls below 30. We didnt have ours who can play when its cold.


England won because they bowled well, and because Bell played a perfect ODI innings given the situation. Hes fuly justified why England picked a proper stroke playing batsman as an opener. With the loss of KP hes the right choice in that role.

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Post by Guest Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:02 pm

completely agree peter OK

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:56 am

Once again Bopara shows he is not an international calibre cricketer. Yet he may well be an auto pick for #6 in the upcoming test series.....time he was given the Solanki treatment...

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Post by gboycottnut Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:57 am

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:Once again Bopara shows he is not an international calibre cricketer. Yet he may well be an auto pick for #6 in the upcoming test series.....time he was given the Solanki treatment...

Give the guy a chance. This is his first England appearance this summer.

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Post by Shelsey93 Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:03 pm

Understandably Jade Dernbach has dropped out of the squad for the next two ODIs on compassionate grounds. Chris Woakes replaces him.

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 pm

gboycottnut wrote:
DouglasJardinesbox wrote:Once again Bopara shows he is not an international calibre cricketer. Yet he may well be an auto pick for #6 in the upcoming test series.....time he was given the Solanki treatment...

Give the guy a chance. This is his first England appearance this summer.

Yes, and he never snapped it up with both hands.

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Post by GG Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:33 pm

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:Once again Bopara shows he is not an international calibre cricketer. Yet he may well be an auto pick for #6 in the upcoming test series.....time he was given the Solanki treatment...

He's been top notch in two of his last three ODI series. Deserves an extended chance.

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