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My take on today's game: NZ vs Ireland

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ebop
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My take on today's game: NZ vs Ireland Empty My take on today's game: NZ vs Ireland

Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 16 Jun 2012, 5:52 pm

Firstly, before I give my take on the match, I take my hat off to Ireland. That was the best Irish performance I have seen against the ABs and to do it in the world champs' backyard after a 32 point schooling the previous week shows the Irish lads have a lot of heart but also a lot of mental strength. Because you can't push the ABs round like that and force them into mistakes for the whole match unless you believe you can win. And right up to that decisive penalty by Owens for screwing the scrum and with an extra man, I thought (my Irish friend who had kindly cooked me an Irish breakfast was remarkably composed but inside I could tell he thought this was really it) Ireland were going for a win.

So I look back on this match as if we lost but without all the emotion obviously that comes with losing. As I mentioned on another thread, Ireland were made to look worse than what they really were last week and NZ were probably made to look better. This week Ireland were much smarter in their tactics. It was very chilly out there and Christchurch on a clear, crisp night attracts a lot of dew on the ground. Ireland started the match strong and I think SBW was the first of many ABs to spill the ball in contact. It turned into a poor handling night from the ABs that partly came the conditions but had more to do with the Irish defence who were much more settled in the backs this week. Say what you like about D'Arcy on attack but he and BOD have an evident understanding on defence and the gaps that were there last week closed up and Guildford and Savea didn't get any space or time with the ball. The fact that neither did Trimble nor McFadden was irrelevant. Ireland had the right tactics tonight. Instead of kick the ball too deep or release the ball helter skelter out to the backs right from the get go to show their attacking intent, Ireland were much smarter this week. They took the ball into contact more and drove again up the middle sucking in AB defenders. The young kid Savea who had a dream debut was made to look ineffective this week. The Irish starved him of ball and space and showed that with the right kick and chase, he is not comfortable under the high ball.

So the right tactics got Ireland close to the AB line. The ball came slowly and though it was a very well taken try, Woodcock and all the rest will be made to look at the replay of that and show why on the line you go for the man with the ball instead of round the legs. Sexton was in good kicking form and Ireland got the right start. But I'd have thought that Kidney would have learned from last week and a major weakness of Ireland - the restarts - and worked on getting that right. Ireland were 10 - 0 up, (rather fortuitously I think, as in the lead up an Irish player cleared out someone from the side and wasn't pinged), but much like last week they blew a perfect opportunity to force further mistakes from the ABs by applying pressure. They lost all the restarts regardless of who was kicking. I think when D'Arcy cleverly blocked a jumping McCaw aiming for the ball, it was the first time Ireland didn't lose a restart. It is simply unforgiveable at this level to lose so many restarts. Heaslip is a big man and often when the ball came to him it wasn't him competing for the ball. So what did this mean for Ireland: 3 penalties to Carter and a perfect chance to apply pressure from starving the opposition of points on the board was wasted. You can't afford to let sides like the ABs such an easy way back into a match. You have to make them suffer for it (for which they pay later on defence) and see if you can force them into pushing things when mistakes usually occur.

That said, there was much to admire about the Ireland performance. The ABs were not playing badly. They got possession and came at the Irish aggressively but the Irish were equally ferocious on defence. Their line didn't buckle and NZ couldn't make inroads out wide. They were forced to go up the middle. So when another promising AB move was shut down and Ireland went into the break, it was a bitter sweet moment. Certainly sweet as their confidence for holding out the ABs attacks gave them much needed belief but also bitter because their dominance should've seen them up by much more.

So it proved after the break when NZ got some good ball and got just reward. I think Smith had another fine game and probably looked the most composed AB out on the field today. He was error free and his passing crisp and his try was just reward for a fine game. Maybe it was the thought that those fecking ABs didn 't deserve to be up by 6 but I think Ireland's comeback had more to do with they thought they were right in this match. You have to admire their determination and with Read off (I didn't really understand why that call was made because while Cane didn't seem out of place, I think the balance of the backrow was badly affected by his absence.) Ireland started getting ascendancy in the scrum. With Franks coming on for his brother it was even more dominant.

Ireland showed in the middle part of that game that when you rattle the ABs without giving them a cushion on the scoreboard they are made to look human. Franks gave away a soft penalty for coming round the side when the ball was out but he didn't come from the hind most player. Dagg got effectively sent off for an ill-advised elbow. He was already committed in the air but if he had made contact with Kearney with open arms on the shoulder I think it would've been fine. That ill-discipline from NZ must be attributed to the Irish pressure. You don't make mistakes, you get forced into them.

So with the scores all tied Sexton had a shot for goal that didn't have the legs. The penalty in the scrum proved decisive. I don't think it was the wrong decision but truth be told those are the kind of calls you get called against you. Weepu, for example, wasn't pinged for getting the ball in whereas Reddan was in the first half. These moments seem insignificant but can have a large bearing on the game. But often I think we tend to always remember the dying moments of the match. Ireland for my mind will be ruing how they so easily lost a 10 - 0 lead in the first half from failing to win a single restart until it was too late.

The ABs will probably be training this week as if they lost. That's not such a bad thing. Sometimes you need to be in the right frame of mind to play test rugby. The 32 point win last weekend didn't do NZ any favours today. They had much to improve on and in some areas did so. But they also dropped their performance in other areas and Ireland were much more improved around the park so they were two very even sides out there today like the scoreboard suggested. The pleasing thing from the AB perspective after that scrum penalty was that NZ played the right tactics. If you don't have a fullback then don't pass the ball out wide. Take it up the middle and Carter's fluffed drop attempt which touched an Irish hand saw a 5m scrum and an ugly but effective drop goal from Carter.

So the better team lost today? I don't hold that opinion. But nor do I think the better team won. The points came the same way and when you look at the chances both sides have, it was an even game. If Ireland had won the feed to that scrum and scored thereafter, it's easy to say the better team won in that regard. The AB fans wouldn't have anything to quarrel about. Let's not underestimate this Irish performance today. But let's not the emotion of having them get so close hide the fact that there were still areas where Ireland could have found a way to come out on top today. And that is what in the end the ABs did. They found a way to win a match that looked very much like one they were going to lose. We can applaud them for that but the fact that the score was so close was an indication of how even those two sides were out there today and when you look at the ranking of Ireland and the year let alone the previous weekend Ireland have had you have to take your hat off to them. But we should also not patronise them as today they put in a performance that deserved victory and they must look very closely at why they ended up on the losing side if they are to truly learn and be a better team from today's performance. guinness

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Post by rodders Sat 16 Jun 2012, 6:07 pm

Great post Kia... hard to argue with anything there.

The restarts were a killer, as they were last week. I think we've been too reliant on O'Connell on that front and we've been exposed out here with no one taking responsibility.

I think we were shell shocked a bit by the pace and intensity last week... this week we kicked much less, tried less silly offloads and went through the phases more.

Desperately disappointed that we didn't close this one out... a draw would have been a fair result but fair play to Carter, who didn't have a great game...cometh the hour cometh the man....our defence was heroic at times.

I hope we can learn from this and come back stronger next week, that was our best peformance since Australia last year... unfortunately we seem to need our backs to the wall to be at our best. Bring on next week guinness .
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Post by asoreleftshoulder Sat 16 Jun 2012, 6:36 pm

On the point of the restarts,last week was so bad that we had a huge amount to work on and only one week to do it.

Defense,attack,kicking,restarts the whole lot was off and I can understand how we didn't manage to sort everything out.What I want to see next week is the same application in every facet we did well and improvement on the (far fewer) areas we got wrong,restarts need serious work but our scrum wasn't great in the 1st half I hope that isn't forgotten in the euphoria of dominating them in the 2nd.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Sat 16 Jun 2012, 6:37 pm

Oh yeah congrats to NZ,they showed how good they are.They can win pretty but when they have to they roll up their sleeves and dog it out with the best of them.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 16 Jun 2012, 7:20 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:On the point of the restarts,last week was so bad that we had a huge amount to work on and only one week to do it.

Defense,attack,kicking,restarts the whole lot was off and I can understand how we didn't manage to sort everything out.What I want to see next week is the same application in every facet we did well and improvement on the (far fewer) areas we got wrong,restarts need serious work but our scrum wasn't great in the 1st half I hope that isn't forgotten in the euphoria of dominating them in the 2nd.
Would you play fitzpatrick or ross at TH?

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Sat 16 Jun 2012, 7:40 pm

Hard to say really,I like the look of Fitzpatrick but I haven't seen enough of him to say for sure.

I'm gonna have to sit on the fence and let the management decide,I imagine Ross gets the start due to experience but he'll need to do his homework.

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Post by rodders Sat 16 Jun 2012, 7:44 pm

Has to be Ross to start but Asore makes some good points above regarding the scrum.
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Post by Taylorman Sat 16 Jun 2012, 8:31 pm

Besides Ireland being an absolute delight to watch...with five minutes to go I was actually contemplating how I was going to celebrate with the irish. ..And felt I didnt really mind tbe prospect of doing so.

On the NZ side good to see Cane get stuck in at a pressure time. He does look a little small...as well as baby faced!

Ali G W once again proved he is a complete waste of time. His only contribution to kick out at a ball from an offside position and then pick a hassle with the nearest player to get marched 10.

Also dont understand switching of aaron smith at such a crucial time. Again one of our best players at some point hansens gotta realise that a good 9 is the key to a close match and weepu added nothing smith couldnt have done. Particilarly in getting the ball to carter for a drop. He was ok but why replace him anyway?

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Sat 16 Jun 2012, 8:39 pm

We heard you the first time Taylorman Hug

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Post by rodders Sat 16 Jun 2012, 8:43 pm

Taylorman wrote:Besides Ireland being an absolute delight to watch...with five minutes to go I was actually contemplating how I was going to celebrate with the irish. ..And felt I didnt really mind tbe prospect of doing so.

That made me well up Taylorman, it really did, very gracious of you sir OK guinness
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Post by Taylorman Sat 16 Jun 2012, 8:45 pm

Yes but now i cant delete it...stupid wireless is playing up...

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Sat 16 Jun 2012, 8:51 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yes but now i cant delete it...stupid wireless is playing up...

Lol it's grand the gremlins get us all at one time or another.

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Post by Biltong Sat 16 Jun 2012, 8:53 pm

Deleted the duplicates for taylorman thumbsup
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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 16 Jun 2012, 8:55 pm

Lucky the ABs aren't so relaxed about the prospect of losing Taylorman. Had to bring my wife into line who was saying the same thing. Her view was that Ireland had lost by too many the previous week and the poor things deserved a victory.

That said, if they had won, I'd be quick to praise the Irish lads. You have to be gracious in defeat as well as victory. But it's one thing after the event and another thing before the game has finished. Think of all the ABs who have built up that proud record. It's like the UK saying, here take these Falklands or Maldivas or whatever you want to call them, we don't really like this lump of rock anymore. Very Happy

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Post by Taylorman Sat 16 Jun 2012, 8:56 pm

rodders wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Besides Ireland being an absolute delight to watch...with five minutes to go I was actually contemplating how I was going to celebrate with the irish. ..And felt I didnt really mind tbe prospect of doing so.

That made me well up Taylorman, it really did, very gracious of you sir OK guinness

That second half had me up in front of the screen transfixed on the tightness of this test.Not often we see the frailty of our heroes in black fpuffing around under huge pressure like this. And the noise from only 20k odd ws deafening I thought...but it was like you could hear the individual sentences...surreal.

If the rest of NZ saw it the way I did there will have been one huge collective 'Whew' at the end- not that theyll all admit it though...
Great match for pure excitement and tension. For me Ireland would have beaten anyone last night. They just need to bottle up whatever they and bring it out every game.

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Post by anotherworldofpain Sat 16 Jun 2012, 9:01 pm

Great Ireland performance. But I predict this already.

I thought key moment was suppose to be sin-bin for Israel Dagg. I thought it was the wrong call for penalty or for yellow card and nothing in it at all. I think referee get it wrong and get a bit carried away and try to make the Ireland win.

How much composure where all blacks? You can see again why they win the world cup to winning this game.

Also you can see how much is weakness from miss good no.6 in Kaino. And why Thompson is wrong there like I say already and how much all blacks miss Read on the 8.

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Post by rodders Sat 16 Jun 2012, 9:08 pm

Taylorman wrote: They just need to bottle up whatever they and bring it out every game.

Thats the big challenge for us Taylorman, can we do that, I'm not so sure... but hopefully we can find another gear next week because we'll need to.

The ABs were deserving winners no doubt but it is very difficult defeat to stomach...so close to creating history.... in the cold light of day though this side went as close as any Irish side to beating the ABs and that is something to be very proud of, and feel positive about, I suppose.... particularly after being so badly outclassed last week and having such a poor 6N.

I think the players restored some pride in the jersey but I just hope we can kick on and front up next week... get a result and not just a performance... the ABs surely won't be as poor, relatively speaking, next week guinness .
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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 16 Jun 2012, 9:13 pm

I don't think the ABs were that poor rodders, rather Ireland were much better.

Certainly Ireland have to work on their consistency which means they have the perfect opportunity to show that consistency the following weekend. It'll be interesting to see up in Hamilton how much conditions play a role because if the weather is like Auckland last weekend, I think that might suit NZ more.

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Post by rodders Sat 16 Jun 2012, 9:16 pm

No I mean relatively poor, below their best for much of the game.

I think we can take some credit for that but perhaps they underestimated us a bit?

Regardless I would expect them to come out firing next week so we will need to be even better to have a chance next week I think.
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Post by The Great Aukster Sat 16 Jun 2012, 9:20 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Lucky the ABs aren't so relaxed about the prospect of losing Taylorman. Had to bring my wife into line who was saying the same thing. Her view was that Ireland had lost by too many the previous week and the poor things deserved a victory.

That said, if they had won, I'd be quick to praise the Irish lads. You have to be gracious in defeat as well as victory. But it's one thing after the event and another thing before the game has finished. Think of all the ABs who have built up that proud record. It's like the UK saying, here take these Falklands or Maldivas or whatever you want to call them, we don't really like this lump of rock anymore. Very Happy

Comparing a game of rugby to a war where people actually died in service is totally inappropriate Kia.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 16 Jun 2012, 9:23 pm

I don't think they underestimated Ireland but they certainly didn't have the same intensity this week. That intensity will assuredly be back next week which means Ireland will have to find a way to summon up their mental strength to keep their game at the same level.

And my apologies for the Falklands comment Great Aukster. Certainly don't mean to belittle the lives lost fighting that war. Wanted to illustrate the fact we shouldn't belittle the efforts of past ABs but agree a better analogy would have served me better. No offence intended.

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Post by rodders Sat 16 Jun 2012, 9:29 pm

Yup thats kind of what I meant Kia...
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Post by Gretgael1 Sat 16 Jun 2012, 9:42 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:Great Ireland performance. But I predict this already.

I thought key moment was suppose to be sin-bin for Israel Dagg. I thought it was the wrong call for penalty or for yellow card and nothing in it at all. I think referee get it wrong and get a bit carried away and try to make the Ireland win.

How much composure where all blacks? You can see again why they win the world cup to winning this game.

Also you can see how much is weakness from miss good no.6 in Kaino. And why Thompson is wrong there like I say already and how much all blacks miss Read on the 8.


I think that's rubbish. It was a penalty and a yellow card. Dagg could have avoided putting his elbow into Kearney's face. Also, if Owens got carried away trying hand us a victory he wouldn't have penalised a questionable scrum offence against Ireland in the last 6 minutes. Absolute nonsense.

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Post by anotherworldofpain Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:38 pm

Rubbish. Kearney jump to the ground like a footballer and milk it like a baby. Then he jump up when he get the penalty. There was far worst things in the other games that completely ignored. The Irish commentators were having a one eyed day and talk about rubbish on most of the commentary. Then after the game that little Irish one in the pundit box talk some more nonsense about the scrum penalties. They just hurt a bit because dissappointed and first excited about close game. But if you watch again without the blinkers you can see was a rubbish decision.

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Post by Biltong Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:39 pm

Kearney didn't milk anything, he even smiled whilst lying on his back, it was a clear case of a charge with no arms.
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Post by anotherworldofpain Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:41 pm

Oh silly talk. Dagg chase his own kick and run very fast then he jump into the challenge when Kearney still has the ball. When he kick it Dagg just proceed in the straight line and always in the air. He can't move in the air and try to pull away. Kearney just dive and no idea why this silly referee make a fussing about it.

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Post by Biltong Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:43 pm

Yes awop, perhaps your calling is to become a citing commissioner.
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Post by anotherworldofpain Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:45 pm

I just speak the truth like voice of reason on this one Biltongbek!

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:54 pm


AWOP

I dont have an issue with the yellow card, in fact in a crazy way it may have helped us.
All of a sudden the AB s realised they had to go 7 minutes with an Irish team that had the smell of blood. and without a fullback they had to go back to conservative plays ie dropkick to close out the match.


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Post by Gretgael1 Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:54 pm

AWOP, are you the riddler by any chance?

I thought McCaw was a bit annoying when interviewed afterwards when he said "we let them back into the game" Really? They were only ever 6 points up in a highly contested game!

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Post by anotherworldofpain Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:57 pm

i don't bother listen to the post game interiews Gretagael1. Is not fair to ask players after 80+ minutes of rugby when they full of addrenaline and exhausted to say something sensible.

The post RWC interviews with mcCaw were so silly. He just want to lie down and then drink a beer. So after I realise that the only good interviews was the non-offensive ones like Shane Williams master making then I realise is just rubbish and dont bother to listen.

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Post by disneychilly Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:05 pm

I got what I wanted this morning. Ireland to play bloody well and NZ to win. As the guys on here have said NZ didn't play that badly, Ireland just played much better. Good on you Rodders for being so cheesed off. It came down to the wire and I feel your pain as having played so well and being so close to playing well they just couldn't find that tiny bit extra.

Dagg stuffed up and deserved yellow. McCaw's hands were shocking and we really missed Read when he came off. Crying out for Kaino and Thorn.

Kudos to the ABs for manning up defensively. It was a testament to the NZ will to win. It's by far the first time that we've been in a nailbiter, test rugby is a game of inches and even though we're the best in the world we're only at the top of the pile by a few inches and I reckon the South Africans will have a lot to say about that in a few weeks. So we're used to getting out of holes-it's just they're usually against Aussie or SA. Really glad Ireland are as gutted as they are. They're a top flight side and too good to look for positives in defeat.

Ireland were winning the collisions again. Great work at the breakdown. I'm not sure how Hansen can improve us in that area.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:05 pm

If theres one thing that Ive learnt from watching many manyAll Black matches is that there generally only two ways to beat the All Blacks.

One, and thats reserved for Australia and France only, is to have an even more expansive, higher octane game with extensive use of the backs than the ABs use themselves. Fairly well known examples;
1999 France semi final and 1994 france at eden park.
2011 3N final in brissy and several other oz wins.

The other is muscle away in the forwards and completely destroy us defensively. Cut us off at 10, 12 and upset any rhythm or pattern in the backs.

This is currently reserved for all the teams that have won last 15 years...SA (2009 and most wins against us), France (2007 and their near win wcup final last year), Oz (late 90s early 00s semi 2003 where they defended us out of the match. England 2002/3 where they outmuscled us and kicked the goals. This method usually comes the hard way. Points in it either way. We dont often get hammered by this approach...but we do lose some close ones.

France and Oz have beaten NZ using both styles and can mix the two.

To date Wales, Ireland and Scotland and more recently England have not had the game to beat us either way, let alone have a side that can win both ways.

Given that. When meeting NZ i believe the best thing to do is to choose which of the methods to win. Irelands effort last night matched the latter. It reminded me of last years wcup final, the 2003 strangulation by oz and france 2007 in terms of tension, frustration and a feeling we werent able to e ever get going.

So to summarise, next week Irelands focus must be on the in your face defence that nearly wpn it for them last night.

NZ will lick their wounds but are still the best students and learners of the game.

By Tuesday they will know exactly where things went wrong, where to improve, change etc and regardless an increased intensity will be at the top of the list.

Ireland must match this. Come up with further ways of getting in the faces of the ballcarriers before they have time to think. In short shut both time and space down to zip. The impact is you get our players running round like chooks dropping balls etc.

This is what Ireland did last night. Even more of the same is required next week cos you can bet the ABs will step it up big time after this.


Last edited by Taylorman on Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by rodders Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:12 pm

You Kiwi lads are all class (you too AWOP Wink) guinness ..... I still want to beat you feicers next week though! boxing Leprechaun
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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:13 pm

Gret
That was nothing, McCaw was actually giving credit to the Irish performance.

The best example I've seen of McCaw dismiss an opposition in a post match interview was after the World Cup final.

I should also state that I dont take a lot of notice of comments made when a microphone is shoved in players faces 20 seconds after the final whistle has gone, and players are still looking for a water bottle.

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Post by Gretgael1 Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:27 pm

True Laurie, it isn't fair to comment when you haven't even left the field and maybe I'm reading too much into it. I was so annoyed that we lost, but at the same time proud of the players and their efforts, that McCaw's comments just touched a nerve. We were in the game off our own back, the AB's made mistakes because of the pressure and intensity of the Irish players, they didn't just let us back into it. Not for a second do I think we deserved to win though, I don't want to hear about moral victories, in rugby you usually get what you deserve.

You've got to hand it the New Zealand, for all their skill they still have enough dog in them to always get over the finish line.


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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:40 pm


Gretgael
These after match interviews are another eample of how we have to pander to the broadcasters, they are in a hurry to move from the game in Christchurch to the game in melbourne. What we actually need is a proper press conference about 30/40 minutes after the game, the coach, the skipper and another.People arent still in the emotion of the moment plus they may be made aware of things that may of happened when they are still walking off the field.

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Post by rodders Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:51 pm

Huge respect for McCaw... he can say what he wants imo... we have to earn our respect on the field.. hopefully today was a start but not the end of that.

We can't put the ABs on a pedestal and in fairness most of our players didn't today, but when we needed to stay strong, our nerve just faltered for a second and thats all it takes for guys like Carter...you can't switch off for a second... these guys are too good, too ruthless and we need to be too.

Guys like BOD already know that but now the likes of Sexton and SOB do too...one more time into the breach....

guinness Leprechaun
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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:56 pm


rodders
serious question:
Do you not think that this loss could be the most positive thing for Irish rugby over say the next year? and I very much include your victory over Australia as well.

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Post by Gretgael1 Sat 16 Jun 2012, 11:59 pm

Rodders, you earn your respect on the field by leaving everything on it, our players done that today but we still came up short. Also, I don't think our nerve faltered at all, we didn't throw away victory, the AB's earned it.

Btw, I've great respect for both McCaw and Carter in particular. Both masters of their art and they still seem to be genuinely decent and humble men off the field.

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Post by anotherworldofpain Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:01 am

Unfortunate I think that any advantage from this game will be rule out next week. NZ will put 50 on Ireland who have given everything today. NZ were too emotional about and not conditions and Ireland make attack to the back row. Next week will be too clever from NZ in Hamilton. And will be some set back because positive about this week forgotten.

Eng, the same story. They cannot face the dinosaur heads again like that and coach not smart enough and doesn't have the players to change up the pace and thinking game.

Wales should turn over Australia next week.

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Post by Taylorman Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:05 am

And its a good example of how a collective approach can overturn a team where individually they are perhaps considered inferior. NZ werent so much a team tonight. Ireland certainly were. Where the he!?@_k they found that much improvement in one week Ill never know but somehow something happened during the week to produce that performance. Unreal.

Irish fans may not have seen them win one yet but I think theyve seen their best performance.

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Post by rodders Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:05 am

Laurie honestly man I don't know..it depends what happens next week...and then the autumn and then the 6N...

That might seem cagey but we've been here before man... hammering England in 2011, beating Australia in the RWC...false dawns...

We've came agonisingly close to beating the ABs before recently.. 2006, 2008... this isn't new...

This is a big step forward from the 6N and last week though but it remains to be seen if its the start of something new or another blip on a downward spiral under Kidney. Next week will tell us more.

A win would have been huge... but another plucky but valiant defeat on its own is not enough..we need to follow it up by something with more substance next week in my opinion.
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Post by ebop Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:06 am

Dagg's yellow was the right call. He's a very lucky man Kearney's kick didn't go further for Sexton to slot the pen.

The ABs started the game as if they were kicking on from last week, but some silly errors, silly infringments, and great Irish defense nipped that in the bud quick smart. Then the ABs were chasing the game and the game 1 style went out the window. Most AB games revert to this type whenever they haven't racked up early points and when the game has high stakes.

ABs need to be more accurate early in game 3, no fancy stuff early like they tried today. SBW fumble, Savea drop kick recieve, killed momentum and hurt confidence. We need to play territory early and squeeze Ireland that way, gather points if available and then kick on.

I'm proud of the boys for holding their nerve to get the win but am expecting an AB backlash next week.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:07 am


Far too early to talk about what NZ may or may not do next week, theyve got to go back to the workshop and fix a number of things.

South Africa know what they have to do, and will go about their business in their usual manner

Dont know about Australia/ Wales, Will gatty say " Get out of my seat"

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Post by anotherworldofpain Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:08 am

What is news on Read? NZ will need to change up the 6-7-8 next week to combat. The front row were missing again in contact. They miss the Thorn/Kaino/Mealamu force to own the tight and fringe in defending and this is where Ireland target. If NZ stay about this problem then SA will take them apart.

Thompson is too rangey and they need some mongrel in the second row. It's all too technical.

Maybe look to Hoeata into the team and this young 6 from Auckland who name I dont know.

Ali William needs a pension plan. And SBW revealed to be no Nonu. Remember how Nonu save NZ in 3N last year and year before? He is better intimidate defender and line breaker and distributor than SBW.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:15 am

rodders
The point is ,as taylorman asked above, If ire land can improve that much in a week then why cant they improve even more in another week? what they dont want is to be satisfied with running the ABs close, but to improve their performance as both individuals bit also as a team.

I havent read evrything written overnight but Im sure Im just repeating what someone else would have said previously, sorry.

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Post by rodders Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:15 am

Gretgael1 wrote:Rodders, you earn your respect on the field by leaving everything on it, our players done that today but we still came up short. Also, I don't think our nerve faltered at all, we didn't throw away victory, the AB's earned it.

No I don't accept that Gretgael1... the game was there to close out and we didn't do it. The ABs took their chance and are deserved winners but we were in a very strong position to win that game, at a minmum earn a draw and failed to do so. I am massively proud of the effort and performance but in the business end of the game when we needed to turn the screw we took the foot of the gas, albeit momentarily and threw the ABs a lifeline.

The ABs deserve credit for snatching victory from the jaws of defeat but did we do everything within our control to win this game? No, not in my opinion.

That performance would have beaten most sides but unfortunately not the team we were facing today. Fair play to the ABs but we shouldn't navel gaze here. We need to improve..and quickly.
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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:17 am

No word yet on read, which probably isnt a good thing.

Surely Messam will be back next week?

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Post by rodders Sun 17 Jun 2012, 12:21 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: rodders
The point is ,as taylorman asked above, If ire land can improve that much in a week then why cant they improve even more in another week? what they dont want is to be satisfied with running the ABs close, but to improve their performance as both individuals bit also as a team.

I havent read evrything written overnight but Im sure Im just repeating what someone else would have said previously, sorry.

Hi Laurie.. no I hope we can improve...well we can because there are areas to improve on, most obviously the restarts...another lose kick cost us a try... those are positives because we can be better.

The down side is so can the ABs so next week it starts again... today counts for nothing and we've stirred the hornets nest. We need a massive performance next week, much better than today.

I genuinely believe we can do it...but the ABs could also put 50pts past us if we can't go to the well once more.
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