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How Nalbandian got disqualified

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How Nalbandian got disqualified Empty How Nalbandian got disqualified

Post by Adam D on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:04 pm

Footage here:

Spoiler:

What was he thinking!


Last edited by Adam D on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by invisiblecoolers on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:08 pm

It clearly wasn't intentional to what ever I see in the video, a Disqualification was a real bad move by the officials, but rather he could be penalized if he would have apologized for the incident.


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Post by superochog on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:16 pm

Sue feeling sorry for herself. I agree that David should have just kept it simple and said sorry but Sue was just horrible trying to make her a victim.

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Post by prostaff85 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:18 pm

Very bad from Nalbandian. Instead of offering a proper and humble apology for injuring a line judge, he only mentions he made a mistake and then goes to saying everybody makes mistakes and especially the ATP makes a lot of mistakes!

Will he still be welcome at Wimbledon?!
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Post by invisiblecoolers on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:20 pm

superochog wrote:Sue feeling sorry for herself. I agree that David should have just kept it simple and said sorry but Sue was just horrible trying to make her a victim.

I guess everybody would have applauded the official if they would have accepted the apology and moved on, its way to clear Nably didnt do that intentionally and it wasn't a serious death threating incident to react it that badly.

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Post by User 774433 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:22 pm

IC did you watch it?
The board was practically on the guys leg, considering how hard he kicked the board there was no way it wouldn't hurt the line judge.

Whats's death threatening got to do with it? This is the ATP rule:

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:25 pm

Could have taken the set off him at worse. Remember tennis players are playing for prize money, can't treat them the same as Rugby or Football.
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Post by djlovesyou on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:26 pm

Not sure how anyone in their right mind can defend that.

Even if he didn't actually deliberately mean to boot the line-judge literally, that's what he did in anger.

It's about as clear a default as there could possibly be.

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Post by Chazfazzer on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:27 pm

No malice from Nalbandian, just a moment of complete stupidity - he should have held his hands up and said 'I was an idiot, and deserve the punishment I got'. To be honest, in that situation he really should have voluntarily forfeited the match; it would at least have rescued his reputation somewhat. It's a shame because he's always been one of my favourite players; I hope he learns from this, although it's kinda getting a bit late in the day in his career for that.

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Post by User 774433 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:29 pm


" 163
VIII. THE CODE

g) Unsportsmanlike Conduct
i) Players shall at all times conduct themselves in a sportsmanlike man-
ner and give due regard to the authority of officials and the rights of opponents, spectators and others. Unsportsmanlike conduct is defined as any misconduct by a player that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the success of a tournament, the ATP and/or the Sport. In addition, unsports- manlike conduct shall include, but not be limited to, the giving, making, is- suing, authorizing or endorsing any public statement having, or designed to have, an effect prejudicial or detrimental to the best interest of the tournament and/or the officiating thereof.

ii) Violation of this section shall subject a player to a fine up to $10,000 for each violation. In addition, if such violation occurs during a match, the player shall be penalized in accordance with the Point Penalty Schedule. In circumstances that are flagrant and particularly injurious to the suc- cess of a tournament, or are singularly egregious, a single violation of this section shall also constitute the player Major Offense of Aggravated Behavior.

...

m) Default
i) The supervisor may default a player either for a single violation of the
Code (immediate default) or as outlined in the Point Penalty Schedule.

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Post by newballs on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:31 pm

Unfortunately the officials had little choice but to default him. Unintentional for sure but it caused an injury to an official and was unsportmanslike so the rules on that are very clear.

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Post by invisiblecoolers on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:31 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:IC did you watch it?
The board was practically on the guys leg, considering how hard he kicked the board there was no way it wouldn't hurt the line judge.

Whats's death threatening got to do with it? This is the ATP rule:

I know it would have certainly hurt the line judge, but people are paying heavy money to watch this match, Nalby's history have to be taken into account before such hard reaction, a set could be penalized and the match could be delayed to make sure the official is alright.

Anything thats not done intentionally could be forgiven, event the law forgives culprit with serious crime if its proved he didnt do it intentionally like in the case of mentally retarded.

Anyways I am not defending his action, he should be penalized but the match didnt deserve to come to an end in this manner, and official could have still forgiven Nalby and let the match carry on, Nalby should be penalized heavily after the match is over. thumbsup

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:32 pm

The best player not to have won a grandslam.. (up there with Rios). The linesman made a meal of it, what do you expect though when UK and Argentina are involved. He did not kick the man directly, he kicked a stable object that hit the mans leg.

Again, can't condone over aggresive behaviour...
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Post by djlovesyou on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:32 pm

Let's be honest, it was worse than old Timmy clocking a ball-girl on the noggin with a ball he hit back in frustration.

That was grounds for a default then, so I don't see why this can be argued any other way.

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Post by Danny_1982 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:39 pm

It was poorly handled in terms of informing the crowd what had happened, but it was absolutely the right decision.

The board went into the line judges leg, but Nalbandian also hit the Line judges leg on his follow through. There is no 'unlucky' in this story. Although I'm sure it wasn't pre-meditated, it was dangerous!

I like Dave, but he's surely bright enough guy to know that it HAS to result in disqualification. if not in the moment, then later on when he reflects on it.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:41 pm

*Reports of David Nalbandian leaving the Betfred shop with a brown briefcase*
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Post by invisiblecoolers on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:42 pm

Official would have got the crowd sympathy now everybody is sober about the incident and the day, this could have easily turned the other way if the official would have shown a big heart by coming down to forgive Nalby for his stupid emotional reaction.

Anyways whats happened has happened, clearly such incident shouldn't happen in the future and if by chance happens hope its handled in a better manner.

Between the officials should have paid the public the ticket money back, coz they don't deserve the penalty for Nalby's stupidity. thumbsup which neither the official nor the tournament director had in mind. Crying or Very sad

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Post by newballs on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:47 pm

JM don't really see how "the linesman made a meal of it".

The reality is if the wood had splintered but not caused an injury to the linesman then David would probably got away with a code violation and loss of a point/game whatever. The reality is though when you watch replays he kicked the board so hard that both the wood and his foot itself appeared to make contact with the linesman's leg.

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Post by bogbrush on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:48 pm

Had to go, no question.

These things are important moments; you let that go, you set a precedent.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:53 pm

bogbrush wrote:Had to go, no question.

These things are important moments; you let that go, you set a precedent.
Could have taken the set off him instead and fined him.

However, I am writing as a fan of him, so i'm not going to be too impartial, the umpire couldn't wait to make the decision. He left the ground before the presentation. chin
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Post by summerblues on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:55 pm

bogbrush wrote:Had to go, no question.

These things are important moments; you let that go, you set a precedent.
Exactly.

And I am actually also a fan of his game - was definitely hoping he would win today.

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Post by Danny_1982 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:56 pm

bogbrush wrote:Had to go, no question.

These things are important moments; you let that go, you set a precedent.

Exactly.

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Post by bogbrush on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:57 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Had to go, no question.

These things are important moments; you let that go, you set a precedent.
Could have taken the set off him instead and fined him.

However, I am writing as a fan of him, so i'm not going to be too impartial, the umpire couldn't wait to make the decision. He left the ground before the presentation. chin
And if he went on to win the match we have a guy winning an event doing that? No way, and I'm a supporter of his tennis.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:58 pm

And I am actually also a fan of his game - was definitely hoping he would win today.
He didnt lose with the bookies OK
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Post by invisiblecoolers on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:04 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
And I am actually also a fan of his game - was definitely hoping he would win today.
He didnt lose with the bookies OK

Yup, luckily I didnt bet on him today Yahoo

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Post by hawkeye on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:26 pm

newballs wrote:JM don't really see how "the linesman made a meal of it".

The reality is if the wood had splintered but not caused an injury to the linesman then David would probably got away with a code violation and loss of a point/game whatever. The reality is though when you watch replays he kicked the board so hard that both the wood and his foot itself appeared to make contact with the linesman's leg.

Have just seen the incident. What it reminded me of was Djokovic smashing the bench in the FO final. When he did that lots of splinters shot off. There were people nearby and I can remember thinking at the time that someone could easily have been hit in the eye... or anywhere else. It could have like the Nalbandian incedent have drawn blood.

I would say that the intentions of Nalbandian and Djokovic and the lack of control were very similar only the results and punishements were (very) different. Are there any lawyers here?

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Post by bogbrush on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:42 pm

Consequences matter, otherwise attempted murder would carry the same entry as murder.

If you differentiate on the basis you suggest you will, through an incremental process of equivaence, reduce all offences to the same level of bad language.

bad language = racquet abuse (just a loss of temper)
Racquet abuse = damaged boards (same action, different outcome)
Damaged boards = injured linesman (ditto)
Injured linesman = serious injury (ditto)
Serious injury = death (ditto)
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Post by Super D Boon on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:08 pm

Bosh!!!!

Did you see that?!

Can't not disqulaify Nalbandian for that but I think Chris Kermode's claim that the line judge was "seriously injured" is a bit silly. It reminds me of my mate's injury when he tried jumping along a row of bicycle parking racks some years ago after he was sozzled.

Anyway, a bigger question is why the hell was there advertising boarding around a line judges legs? Surely the guy could have injured himself if he didn't watch where he was putting his feet.

It's a stupid place to have advertising boarding around someone's feet!

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Post by Chazfazzer on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:19 pm

I would say that the intentions of Nalbandian and Djokovic and the lack of control were very similar only the results and punishements were (very) different. Are there any lawyers here?

This is a very good point. Take this clip of Roddick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOYwc9i94E8

Here he smashes part of the chair, chipping the wood quite noticeably. This behaviour could be considered worse than what Nalbandian demonstrated today - Roddick had had a few seconds to calm down after already having slammed his racquet on the ground, but he still went ahead and purposefully smashed up the changeover chair anyway.

The rebuttal for this would be that the object Nalbandian vented his frustration on happened to have a person's shin located about 6 inches behind it, making his actions far worse. This is true in terms of the outcome of the action, but not in the intentions for it. I believe that:

- Nalbandian simply saw only the wooden board in his foot of anger, and was completely oblivious to the linesman behind it.

- Despite his anger, Roddick had had a few seconds to consider any potential negative consequences of his actions (ie in terms of danger).

In my opinion, out of these two incidents, Roddick's behaviour is worse. It was mainly due to Nalbandian's misfortune that his fit of anger had the outcome it did. Roddick's actions only earnt him a paltry racquet abuse warning - the consequences, I believe, should have been much greater.

Just to be clear, I do still believe that Nalbandian should have been defaulted, despite bad luck playing the significant role in the whole incident today.

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Post by lags72 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:22 pm

There's no doubt that Nalbandian's behaviour today was in the heat of the moment, so in that sense it was something of an aberration. And perhaps none of us could say 100% that we would never, ever, do such a thing given a particular combination of circumstances and mindset.

But we're talking about a professional sportsman here. Tennis and respect for officialdom & rules have always been inextricably linked, so any notion that there should be a sanction other than immediate disqualification is to me totally irrational.

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Post by Guest on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:26 pm

It wasn't premeditated as in first degree murder - but more "heat of the moment" as in manslaughter or "reckless" as in recklessly in charge of a car when running over and killing a cyclist or pedestrian.

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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:53 pm

Looking at old Tim's incident with the ball girl. I actually think Nalbandian's reaction to being told it was a default wasn't particularly bad. Maybe he knew instantly that the cut leg was enough to forfeit the match, whereas Tim seems to argue his case for quite a while and not really bother to see if the girl was ok.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/18477343

Overall although i think there was nothing they could do, as it had to be a default and having Nalby potentially go on to win, having done that would not have looked great. I do have these thoughts floating around my head:

1. It wasn't intended to harm the linesman, in fact i think he probably misjudged the structural resistance of the advert hoardings, which came apart easily

2. The lines man did make a meal of it imo (maybe he's been watching too much of the football)

3. I think Serena's death threat was far worse overall even though no injuries were involved; which only lost her a point (abeit at MP)

4. I think Nalbandian was attempting to highlight some issues with the ATP generally that had broadly added to his levels of frustration (such as being forced to play on wet courts) to explain his state of mind, not to excuse his action. I think he did apologise for his mistake in kicking the hoarding.

5. I do think the parallel with Djokovic at the FO is valid, not directly as injury was less likely, but certainly it shows on court anger like that could result in you binning the match instantly.

Overall though, i'll reiterate that the default was the right choice, but rules do need to be looked at.


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Post by Calder106 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:04 pm

Don't agree. He kicked the hoarding. The linesmans leg was cut by the flying hoarding. One or points earlier he had been throwing his racquet on the ground. Basically he had lost it. The rules are there. There is really no excuse or mitigating circumstances.

Yes it was done in frustration and the aftermath was unfortunate but he could earned a lot more respect if he had just accepted the decision and apologised rather than trying to bring other grieviances.

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Post by Danny_1982 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:15 pm

People seem to be ignoring the fact that Nalbandian's foot made contact with the line judge on the follow through. It wasn't just misfortune. He made direct contact.

Frankly, I'm staggered anyone has any sympathy with him. Sure people have broke racquets and smashed wooden structures before.. But not with a man sat 6 inches behind it! And I can't think of another incident where a tennis players rage has resulted in him kicking someone. Remember, there were 2 contacts made. The board that was smashed, and - crucially - Nalbandian's foot.

That separates this incident from any other, and makes it worse.

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Post by Guest on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:19 pm

Tom_____ wrote: ... 2. The lines man did make a meal of it imo (maybe he's been watching too much of the football)...
The old blame the victim line ... Maybe the old man's skin was too thin to take a proper kicking.

I'm coming to the view that they shouldn't have advertising hoardings around the legs of the line judges. The line judges are just too close to the play on such narrow courts and perhaps the hoardings are just too tempting for a frustrated player to avoid having a "little / big" kick at. Nalbandians momentum took him towards the hoarding and he gave it a kick when he saw it there in front of him. I'll accept it was a heat of the moment reflex action and would suggest a redesign (remove the hoarding) to prevent this possibility from happening again.

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Post by lydian on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:40 pm

'Curb your enthusiasm' Dave...clearly he thought the line judge looked like Larry David, so having seen some of his videos on the transatlantic flight over and not been too impressed he simply took matters into his own hands (feet) today.

What a donut Dave is.
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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Nore Staat wrote:
Tom_____ wrote: ... 2. The lines man did make a meal of it imo (maybe he's been watching too much of the football)...
The old blame the victim line ... Maybe the old man's skin was too thin to take a proper kicking.

I'm coming to the view that they shouldn't have advertising hoardings around the legs of the line judges. The line judges are just too close to the play on such narrow courts and perhaps the hoardings are just too tempting for a frustrated player to avoid having a "little / big" kick at. Nalbandians momentum took him towards the hoarding and he gave it a kick when he saw it there in front of him. I'll accept it was a heat of the moment reflex action and would suggest a redesign (remove the hoarding) to prevent this possibility from happening again.

Not blaming the victim at all. Clearly it was Nalbandian who caused his shin to be cut - quite obvious. My opinion is simply that the injury did not warrant rolling on the floor, happy for others to disagree


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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:43 pm

Danny_1982 wrote:People seem to be ignoring the fact that Nalbandian's foot made contact with the line judge on the follow through. It wasn't just misfortune. He made direct contact.

Frankly, I'm staggered anyone has any sympathy with him. Sure people have broke racquets and smashed wooden structures before.. But not with a man sat 6 inches behind it! And I can't think of another incident where a tennis players rage has resulted in him kicking someone. Remember, there were 2 contacts made. The board that was smashed, and - crucially - Nalbandian's foot.

That separates this incident from any other, and makes it worse.

this highlights to me that Nalbandian was expecting the Hoarding to be solid when he kicked it - hence not expecting a follow through or knock it down. I should think Djoko was expecting the Perrier sign to be solid too when he hit it.

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Post by lydian on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:47 pm

Yeah but Tom that hoarding would have had to be made from granite to not be broken or go backwards at speed given the force Donut punted it with. If it hadn't given way I suspect he would be asking Beckham tips on how to speedily repair broken metatarsals!


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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:48 pm

For me i would say what Serena did at the USO also warranted a default, if the rules were to be reviewed following this. However i have a further question - should any physical unsportsmanlike conduct on court (racquet smashing, sign destruction etc) warrant a default, as they are all poor to see and potentially dangerous . It might illustrate to players that any kind of reaction in that way is not part of tennis and is not an option on court.

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Post by Thomond on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:49 pm

I would be annoyed if I paid to go. They're the people who should be annoyed. Complete stupidity. Don't think he wanted to injure the line judge. He would have been better off kicking a side hoarding!

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Post by lydian on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:53 pm

Also he's not helping himself trying to blame ATP for adding to his frustrations...he's trying to allude to being overcooked by having to play so many matches. He should have just accepted his medicine and made a unilateral apology.

So a good weeks work then...£36,000 prize forfeited, further £6,000 fine and loss of 150 ATP points! Now that's a real kick to the shins!
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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:56 pm

lydian wrote:Yeah but Tom that hoarding would have had to be from lead to not be broken or go backwards at speed given the force Donut punted it with. If it hadn't given way I suspect he would be asking Beckham tips on how to speedily repair broken metatarsals!

I know that, but i'm not sure in that instant Dave thought that, or was trying to destroy it. I also think he didn't register anything beyond the hoarding in his mind, so either way i think the follow through is besides the point. Its the negative physical reaction that in this instance led to the injury. I'm usually very critical of any negative physical reaction on court and don't really like Dave, but i feel in this case its too easy to exaggerate this one beyond what it really was. I think it opens a broader question of what is acceptable on court, as really its normal to see racquets smashed and signage attacked these days. Today we saw a potential consequence of such behaviour - it could have led to worse injury and so the whole thing having a hierarchy of punishments seems a bit superfluous to me. Maybe just a straight instant default for anything like that would serve the sport better.


Last edited by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by lydian on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:57 pm

A win could have moved him up from #36 to #25...and got him a seeding at Wimbledon.
Even runner up points would have achieved a seeding result.

Plonker.
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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:58 pm

Thomond wrote:I would be annoyed if I paid to go. They're the people who should be annoyed. Complete stupidity. Don't think he wanted to injure the line judge. He would have been better off kicking a side hoarding!

Although he may have but his foot straight through the side hoarding and found the toddler on the front row.

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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:00 pm

lydian wrote:A win could have moved him up from #36 to #25...and got him a seeding at Wimbledon.
Even runner up points would have achieved a seeding result.

Plonker.

could he really forfeit the points as well? I only ask because then it technically implies a stronger penalty for the same thing as a slam is possible, as more points could be at stake.

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Post by lydian on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Clearly it was a fit of unintended piqué. But he kicked it with a large force it has to be said. It's just a simple piece of plywood around a chair with a leg 6 inches behind it...what was he expecting? A brick wall?

I don't accept that an incident such as Djokovic punting that Perrier chair should have been a defaulting situation also. I think abuse of officials is different, and causing injury...by whatever means...is further different.
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Post by lydian on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Yes Tom...by being disqualified from the match he's also disqualified from the event, so in effect he forfeits everything gained during it.
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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:07 pm

lydian wrote:Yes Tom...by being disqualified from the match he's also disqualified from the event, so in effect he forfeits everything gained during it.

Thats an interesting ATP rule then, as you stand to lose less by doing that at smaller tournaments and also technically in earlier rounds.

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Post by Tom_____ on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:12 pm

lydian wrote:A win could have moved him up from #36 to #25...and got him a seeding at Wimbledon.
Even runner up points would have achieved a seeding result.

Plonker.

Just looking at the post Queens/Halle rankings and i have Nalbandian's new ranking at #41 with 0pts, #35 with 150pts and =#27 (tie Kholscrieber) had he won and got 250pts.

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