How Nalbandian got disqualified
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How Nalbandian got disqualified
First topic message reminder :
Footage here:
What was he thinking!
Footage here:
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What was he thinking!
Last edited by Adam D on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
I have seen this and the Nalbandian's behaviour was totally out of order. No need for that at all. As far as I am concerned He knew the judge was there. For me for people to say it was an unfortunate accident are just silly. Board by judge was bound to make contact. I can't excuse stupidity and I won't be excusing Dave any time soon. Mindless recklessness. Has no place on a court.
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Maybe Tom, I was going off position in the Live-Tennis.eu site and also adding 150/250.
Looking further, 3 things stand out...
1. Amusing how the ball girl held up a ball for the next serve after the incident
2. Nalbandian is surely going to sue Nike for allowing such a flimsy piece of boarding to be used
3. Line judge didnt admit he wasnt Larry David...Dave's least preferred comedian ( http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=larry+david&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=zjzeT4DXDYGR0AXErsn0Cg&biw=768&bih=928&sei=2zzeT9TXDefH0QXaqcTyCg )
Looking further, 3 things stand out...
1. Amusing how the ball girl held up a ball for the next serve after the incident
2. Nalbandian is surely going to sue Nike for allowing such a flimsy piece of boarding to be used
3. Line judge didnt admit he wasnt Larry David...Dave's least preferred comedian ( http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=larry+david&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=zjzeT4DXDYGR0AXErsn0Cg&biw=768&bih=928&sei=2zzeT9TXDefH0QXaqcTyCg )
lydian- Posts : 9178
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
legendkillarV2 wrote:I have seen this and the Nalbandian's behaviour was totally out of order. No need for that at all. As far as I am concerned He knew the judge was there. For me for people to say it was an unfortunate accident are just silly. Board by judge was bound to make contact. I can't excuse stupidity and I won't be excusing Dave any time soon. Mindless recklessness. Has no place on a court.
I'm not sure anyone is trying to say it was an accident. Clearly it was a stupid decision for him to kick like that.
Tom_____- Posts : 618
Join date : 2011-05-31
Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
MY live link now confirming Nalbandian has had 150pts removed and drops to 39 in world prior to Wimbers
Tom_____- Posts : 618
Join date : 2011-05-31
Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Just curious would nalby be disqualified if he would have fell accidentally on that line judge [sitting so close to him] and hurting him seriously when tried to do a running forehand?
Even in this case Nalby would have seriously injured the Official and it was un-intentional too, would the punishment be the same?
Lets agree Nalby made a mistake, but where is the heart, we are human beings and everybody makes mistake at the mood of the hour, there should clearly be a difference between harming intention and accidents.
When Serena shouted at the official she did it with purpose and she deserved the penalty eventhough the official might not be hurt it still was a serious issue, in Nalby's case eventhough he hurt the official it was by accident and no way intended and to disqualify immediately without calming down the situation looked immature to me.
In my view Nalby should be punished for his anger, and he should have apologized immdly [I think he did apologize immdly], the Line judge should have understood Nalby didn't do it purposefully and hence should have forgive him to let the match carry on by showing big heart.
If it would have happen this way, you would have respected the crowd that came all the way to watch the tennis, no body cared about the paying public here, selfish thoughts in my view.
Even in this case Nalby would have seriously injured the Official and it was un-intentional too, would the punishment be the same?
Lets agree Nalby made a mistake, but where is the heart, we are human beings and everybody makes mistake at the mood of the hour, there should clearly be a difference between harming intention and accidents.
When Serena shouted at the official she did it with purpose and she deserved the penalty eventhough the official might not be hurt it still was a serious issue, in Nalby's case eventhough he hurt the official it was by accident and no way intended and to disqualify immediately without calming down the situation looked immature to me.
In my view Nalby should be punished for his anger, and he should have apologized immdly [I think he did apologize immdly], the Line judge should have understood Nalby didn't do it purposefully and hence should have forgive him to let the match carry on by showing big heart.
If it would have happen this way, you would have respected the crowd that came all the way to watch the tennis, no body cared about the paying public here, selfish thoughts in my view.
invisiblecoolers- Posts : 4963
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
The question of intentional vs accidental situation is the differentiator. In either case, it may not have been pre-meditated (using legalese now).
laverfan- Moderator
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
laverfan wrote:The question of intentional vs accidental situation is the differentiator. In either case, it may not have been pre-meditated (using legalese now).
Exactly LF, everybody knows including the officials that it was clearly unintentional, had it been intentional he wouldn't be kicking the slab rather somewhere else seriously, in my view its just common sense and they could have dealt with the situation differently altogether, what mistake did the paying public do?
May be they could have banned Nalby for 2 tournaments after this for uncontrolled emotions but this match should have surely continued after making nalby apologize and he did apologize immdly, ATP website has posted what Nalby felt about the situation and clearly posted apology several times not just once.
invisiblecoolers- Posts : 4963
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Tom_____ wrote:MY live link now confirming Nalbandian has had 150pts removed and drops to 39 in world prior to Wimbers
yes Tom all his points earned in this tournament is abducted and he won't get any prize money nor appearance fee either, so in my view he was punished severely so to have not let the match continue was not a perfect decision in my view.
invisiblecoolers- Posts : 4963
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Crowd certainly wanted play on, see how crowd was cheated here by the officials, certainly nobody cared for the paying public.
here is the video, listen to it after 30 secs
youtube.com/watch?v=lK_ypvKygQc&feature=player_embedded#at=77.t
here is the video, listen to it after 30 secs
youtube.com/watch?v=lK_ypvKygQc&feature=player_embedded#at=77.t
invisiblecoolers- Posts : 4963
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Yes crowd was cheated but they had to disqualify him. No alternative or else a dangerous precedent is set.
Nalby knows he let himself and 6,000 paying public members down.
Nalby knows he let himself and 6,000 paying public members down.
lydian- Posts : 9178
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
We had a lot of discussion about this at the tournament- I only found out by the booing of the crowd and still haven't seen the incident, but my belief is that the umpire made the right call from those available to him, but the rules should be slightly changed. The DQ not only (rightly) punished Nalbandian but also the paying customers, Queen's Club itself, Cilic who won't be able to enjoy his win, the sponsors etc. It is bad for tennis. Ideally I'd have taken away all his prize money from the earlier stages of the tournament, and defaulted that set. I feel that given the context and other people affected by the situation, this would have been more sensible.
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
lydian wrote:Yes crowd was cheated but they had to disqualify him. No alternative or else a dangerous precedent is set.
Nalby knows he let himself and 6,000 paying public members down.
I think Nalby should refund the customers out of those deep pockets of his
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Defaulting the set would only have been convenient because he won the first set. If he'd lost the first set, then defaulting the 2nd would be the same as ending the match. So what then? Default a game, so the match can go on? A decision can't be made, or a rule created, so that the punishment depends on the current scoreline.
What about if you punch an umpire at 1-1 in the first - just lose a set so that the crowd still get a match?
It looks to me as if Nalby's foot also follows through and kicks the line judge (possibly with the boarding sandwiched between foot and shin) - has to be disqualified.
What about if you punch an umpire at 1-1 in the first - just lose a set so that the crowd still get a match?
It looks to me as if Nalby's foot also follows through and kicks the line judge (possibly with the boarding sandwiched between foot and shin) - has to be disqualified.
JuliusHMarx- julius
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
True but a rule should allow any official in any sport to apply the context of the situation and make a judgement call. Theoretically the reason they are in the chair is because you trust their judgement. If Nalbandian had lost the first set then the situation would have been different, but he didn't. You should address every situation on it's own merits and absolute rules detract from the power and purpose of the umpire. You can say that it then puts pressure on the umpire to make a right decision and leaves things up to interpretation but that's the entire point of that official. The ball boys could probably run the match if their authority was just sticking to black and white rules rather than making actual decisions. Same thing in rugby, highlighted by the Sam Warburton tackle in the World Cup, and I'm sure the same in every sport. The fact that in another situation this decision would have been ideal doesn't mean it was in this situation and you have to take money and audiences into account because frankly this is professional sport and money whilst retaining principles to the best possible degree is the driving factor. Queen's had an awful tournament for various reasons. Hopefully they can turn this publicity to their favour but I doubt it
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
It's possible, of course, that a judgement call was made and the judgement was to disqualify. It appears the ATP Supervisor Tom Barnes made the decision not the umpire.
"It is unsportsmanlike conduct, and the supervisor has the authority to declare an immediate default. Once I saw that the line judge was injured, I didn't have any other option."
Rugby being a team sport, is a bit different. As one journalist put it, tennis is a one-man sport and if one man gets a deserved red card, it's game over.
Tough on the crowd of course, but it's Nalby's fault, not the officials'. Some things are more important than money, even in professional sport.
"It is unsportsmanlike conduct, and the supervisor has the authority to declare an immediate default. Once I saw that the line judge was injured, I didn't have any other option."
Rugby being a team sport, is a bit different. As one journalist put it, tennis is a one-man sport and if one man gets a deserved red card, it's game over.
Tough on the crowd of course, but it's Nalby's fault, not the officials'. Some things are more important than money, even in professional sport.
JuliusHMarx- julius
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Fair enough that is entirely possible, and hopefully they won't let him play again next year and we can have a more civil final
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
It seems that the police have now become involved in this incident:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/18479244
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/18479244
lags72- Posts : 5018
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Remember the incident at Wimbledon in 1995 when Tim Henman playing in a doubles match hit a ball and it accidentally hit a ball girl in the ear. Well not only was Henman defaulted from that match, but he also humiliatingly had to do a photoshoot with that girl the next day in which he presented that girl with a set of flowers and giving her a kiss on her cheek. Maybe Nalbanian should be given the same punishment and told to do this same thing as what Henman did back in 1995.
gboycottnut- Posts : 1919
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
JuliusHMarx wrote:Defaulting the set would only have been convenient because he won the first set. If he'd lost the first set, then defaulting the 2nd would be the same as ending the match. So what then? Default a game, so the match can go on? A decision can't be made, or a rule created, so that the punishment depends on the current scoreline.
What about if you punch an umpire at 1-1 in the first - just lose a set so that the crowd still get a match?
It looks to me as if Nalby's foot also follows through and kicks the line judge (possibly with the boarding sandwiched between foot and shin) - has to be disqualified.
Punching is different, anything done with intent should be treated severly, but accidents do occur and thats not with anybody's control, I am not defending Nalby's action, but the match shouldn't be defaulted, he should have been allowed to continue the match and even if he would have won the fee and the money should be stripped and should be spend on charity cause and title should rather read as no winner.
Anyways there is no point in mourning now and hence I go with the ATP's decision but in the future they should understand what is intent and what is accident and dealt it accordingly. [Even the Law courts deal it such a way].
invisiblecoolers- Posts : 4963
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
He intended to boot the advertising hoarding in anger though. Anything that happens as a result of kicking the hoarding is 100% his responsibility, and as that happened to be an official getting injured there can be no other decision other than a default.
If you punch a guy in the face, generally the worst punishment you'll get is aggravated assault. If you punch someone in the face and they fall, bang their head and die, you're up for manslaughter.
The result of an action is important when deciding on punishment, hence Tim Henman's default. Nobody would have batted an eyelid had the ball just hit the net like he meant it to.
If you punch a guy in the face, generally the worst punishment you'll get is aggravated assault. If you punch someone in the face and they fall, bang their head and die, you're up for manslaughter.
The result of an action is important when deciding on punishment, hence Tim Henman's default. Nobody would have batted an eyelid had the ball just hit the net like he meant it to.
djlovesyou- Posts : 2283
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
A reckless action carried out in anger resulting in harm to a court official or spectator results in a match default.
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
At the risk of being a total pain the proverbial ar@@ I posted this on the othe thread and had littl¡e by way of a reply... Hoping that someone else can give me an answer that I can actually understand.
Quote
OK Ive heard the argument that what Djokovic did was not in anyway the same as what Nalby did... Ill buy into that for the moment.
However ...Scenario Djokovic smashed his racquet into the seating at the FO.. and we will say a piece flew into the air and hit eg. Ball girl, umpire, or even a member of the public sitting in the front row... then what ???
Same action, with no intent to deliberately hurt anyone.. but an accident and done in temper.. explain the difference SOMEBODY... Im willing to listen.
Quote
OK Ive heard the argument that what Djokovic did was not in anyway the same as what Nalby did... Ill buy into that for the moment.
However ...Scenario Djokovic smashed his racquet into the seating at the FO.. and we will say a piece flew into the air and hit eg. Ball girl, umpire, or even a member of the public sitting in the front row... then what ???
Same action, with no intent to deliberately hurt anyone.. but an accident and done in temper.. explain the difference SOMEBODY... Im willing to listen.
Haddie-nuff- Posts : 6936
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
When Nalbandian kicked the board, the linejudge was right behind it... meaning that chance of it not affecting him was practically 0.Haddie-nuff wrote:At the risk of being a total pain the proverbial ar@@ I posted this on the othe thread and had littl¡e by way of a reply... Hoping that someone else can give me an answer that I can actually understand.
Quote
OK Ive heard the argument that what Djokovic did was not in anyway the same as what Nalby did... Ill buy into that for the moment.
However ...Scenario Djokovic smashed his racquet into the seating at the FO.. and we will say a piece flew into the air and hit eg. Ball girl, umpire, or even a member of the public sitting in the front row... then what ???
Same action, with no intent to deliberately hurt anyone.. but an accident and done in temper.. explain the difference SOMEBODY... Im willing to listen.
Meanwhile when Djokovic smashed the board there was no one near and hence it was very unlikely it would harm anyone.
As someone explained the consequences and effect does affect the charge, thus Nalbandian's outburst had a greater chance of hurting someone and therefore inflicting a greater punishment on himself.
User 774433- Posts : 5067
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Haddie-nuff wrote: ...Scenario Djokovic smashed his racquet into the seating at the FO.. and we will say a piece flew into the air and hit eg. Ball girl, umpire, or even a member of the public sitting in the front row... then what ??? ...
Ergo match default.Nore Staat wrote:A reckless action carried out in anger resulting in harm to a court official or spectator results in a match default.
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
I've now watched the match in its entirety and the incident was awful. He should have been disqualified, I just wish there were some way to allow a final to take place instead
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Sorry that argument does not hold water... Djokovic had no idea what the outcome of that little tantrum could have cost him... He and Nalby never had their brains in gear when they did what they did... Nole got lucky .. thats the difference. Djokovic had more than enough people near him... had that splintered and flown in the air ball girls, members of the public even the umpire.
But had he had the bad luck to have inflicted such an injury on anyone do you honestly believe that it would have resulted in the same penalties... Banning the NO.1. ??? Lets face it who is going to miss Nalby now wont make much difference to the outcome of Wimbledon will he .
So let it be a lesson to all players no matter what their ranking that giving way to temper tantrums and even inflicting damage to equipment should carry its penalties.
But had he had the bad luck to have inflicted such an injury on anyone do you honestly believe that it would have resulted in the same penalties... Banning the NO.1. ??? Lets face it who is going to miss Nalby now wont make much difference to the outcome of Wimbledon will he .
So let it be a lesson to all players no matter what their ranking that giving way to temper tantrums and even inflicting damage to equipment should carry its penalties.
Haddie-nuff- Posts : 6936
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
You would like that wouldn't you haddie. So everybody can point at Djokovic and berate him, still not got over he's beaten Nadal in 3 of the 4 slams??? Youve been here since February of last year, well I don't remember seeing you around in June and September when Nadal was getting his slams taken away by the more impressive Serbian
Josiah Maiestas- Posts : 6700
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
There was an ITV news broadcast of someone giving way to temper tantrums which resulted in the death of three children and their pet cat named Tiddles. I think that should serve as a salutary lesson to all members of 606v2.Haddie-nuff wrote:Sorry that argument does not hold water... Djokovic had no idea what the outcome of that little tantrum could have cost him... He and Nalby never had their brains in gear when they did what they did... Nole got lucky .. thats the difference. Djokovic had more than enough people near him... had that splintered and flown in the air ball girls, members of the public even the umpire.
But had he had the bad luck to have inflicted such an injury on anyone do you honestly believe that it would have resulted in the same penalties... Banning the NO.1. ??? Lets face it who is going to miss Nalby now wont make much difference to the outcome of Wimbledon will he .
So let it be a lesson to all players no matter what their ranking that giving way to temper tantrums and even inflicting damage to equipment should carry its penalties.
Guest- Guest
Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
It's about harm, otherwise all on-court flares of temper are potential fatal accidents, or a fatality is just normal flare of temper that went extra-wrong.
bogbrush- Posts : 11169
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Josiah Maiestas wrote:You would like that wouldn't you haddie. So everybody can point at Djokovic and berate him, still not got over he's beaten Nadal in 3 of the 4 slams??? Youve been here since February of last year, well I don't remember seeing you around in June and September when Nadal was getting his slams taken away by the more impressive Serbian
What has that got to do with the price of fish JM.. do keep to the topic... you get more of a mindless wum with every post you make... give it a break and try posting something intelligent... I realise that may tax you a little but seriously you can if you put your (dare I use the word Mind) to it
No thats right... I havent been around for long at all... you ask the other poster they will tell you Im a new girl here ... I bow to those like you with superior knowledge and intelligence
Haddie-nuff- Posts : 6936
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Re: How Nalbandian got disqualified
Josiah Maiestas wrote:You would like that wouldn't you haddie. So everybody can point at Djokovic and berate him, still not got over he's beaten Nadal in 3 of the 4 slams??? Youve been here since February of last year, well I don't remember seeing you around in June and September when Nadal was getting his slams taken away by the more impressive Serbian
Take it easy, JM. Tennis is just a sport, not a war. Do we want to drag in NATO bombings into this discussion?
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