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Israel Dagg - lucky to only get a yellow card?

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Post by brennomac on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:23 am

Does anybody think that Dagg was lucky to only get a yellow card for his charge on Kearney late in the game. From my viewing, Dagg seemed to lead with his elbow right into Kearney's head - if Dagg was really trying to block Kearney's kick, wouldn't his arms be up in the air. Whatever, it was a cheap shot and if only Kearney's kick had gone 10m further it would have been within Sexton's range.

Oh and god preserve us from one-eyed pundits. Sean Fitzpatrick saw nothing whatsoever wrong with Dagg's charge. Pathetic, especially from an NZ icon!

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Post by Gordy on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:25 am

Lucky!? I thought it was a barely a penalty. Kearney made a meal of it to try and get Dagg sent off.

No problems with it given as a penalty. But a yellow card was harsh and a red card would have been laughable.

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Post by rodders on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:29 am

Definitely not red....penalty for sure and can't see why there's much complaints about a yellow.

Kearney milked it but there was certainly an offence there by Dagg.

Don't really think it had too much significance in the game.
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Post by anotherworldofpain on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:31 am

It was not even a penalty. He was already committed and in the air to the charge before Kearney kick it. If he had dummied he could just have tackle him, or charge to the kick if it was a second later.

When the ball pass him, Dagg turn his body to lessen the impact.

Kearney just milked a penalty from the NH colleague in this case.

I heard a comment by the knowledgable poster that maybe this helping the ABS because focus the mind on the tactic that win the game in the end.

It was like all blacks go into seige mode like they needed in 2007 against France and engineer the drop goal and execute it by 100 meters. Very impressive!

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:41 am

anotherworldofpain wrote:It was not even a penalty. He was already committed and in the air to the charge before Kearney kick it. If he had dummied he could just have tackle him, or charge to the kick if it was a second later.

When the ball pass him, Dagg turn his body to lessen the impact.

Kearney just milked a penalty from the NH colleague in this case.

I heard a comment by the knowledgable poster that maybe this helping the ABS because focus the mind on the tactic that win the game in the end.

It was like all blacks go into seige mode like they needed in 2007 against France and engineer the drop goal and execute it by 100 meters. Very impressive!
Yes it was a penatly even the AB supporters on here admitted it was a penalty

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Post by caoimhincentre on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:42 am

anotherworldofpain wrote:It was not even a penalty. He was already committed and in the air to the charge before Kearney kick it. If he had dummied he could just have tackle him, or charge to the kick if it was a second later.

When the ball pass him, Dagg turn his body to lessen the impact.

Kearney just milked a penalty from the NH colleague in this case.

I heard a comment by the knowledgable poster that maybe this helping the ABS because focus the mind on the tactic that win the game in the end.

It was like all blacks go into seige mode like they needed in 2007 against France and engineer the drop goal and execute it by 100 meters. Very impressive!

definitely a penalty.

most of the NZ posters here admit it too. you are like a dog with abone with this topic.

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Post by Thomond on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:04 pm

Was a pnealty, a yellow was probably just. Red, no freaking way.


I don't really see how Kearney made a meal of it when he was up and smiling about 20 seconds later.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:10 pm

Yellow. No red. Tough game (no red) and an easy call (yellow)

Can we dispense with the card issue. We have two teams who played a crunchingly physical game, two teams who played well enough to win and bad enough to lose, two teams that entertained all of us even when most of us doubted it would even be a contest after the first 15 minutes. Two teams that will go at each other again at the weekend... and anyone who likes rugby and is neutral will be wanting another Big game. Those of us with a bias will be hoping for performances and success.

To hell with this childish obsession with a yellow card - the game was much more than the yellow card.

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Post by DAVESA on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:15 pm

Yellow card was the correct call. Red???? Hell no

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Post by blackcanelion on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:22 pm

Probably about right. Might have got a red on bad day, on a good day he might have got off. I've got no complaints.

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Post by Gordy on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:25 pm

Ireland lost the game, so yellow card doesnt mean much if the aftermath. Had the match been a draw, then the card would be a bigger talking point.

It seems both sets of fans are bringing it up to take focus away from other issue. In Irelands case blowing a golden opportunity to record a first win over the All Blacks. In New Zealands case to disguise an under par performance and narrow escape.

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Post by rodders on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:29 pm

Gordy wrote:
It seems both sets of fans are bringing it up to take focus away from other issue. In Irelands case blowing a golden opportunity to record a first win over the All Blacks. In New Zealands case to disguise an under par performance and narrow escape.

Yup fair comment Gordy, I'm really surprised and disappointed at the focus on the referee and alledged infringements. I though both sides pushed the boundries, as you'd expect at this level, and can have no complaints with the ref.
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Post by Thomond on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:31 pm

I don't think that many are focusing on the ref,Rod squad. Most seem to accept we lost the game to to our own accord. Mainly letting the ABs into the game by giving away cheap penalties. The refs weren't at fault anyhow we lsot the game due to our own issues, mainly lack of discipline.

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Post by rodders on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:35 pm

Fair enough Thomond, I think theres been a bit in the media, particularly in NZ and one or two in here have been banging that drum.

Agree with Gordy, its smoke and mirrors from both sides.
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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:36 pm

It was definately a penalty it was quite obvious what Dagg's intention was despite anotherworldofpain's seeming psychic link to what Dagg was thinking. I don't think it should ever have been a yellow and I was surprised at the time. Almost as surprised as I was at Sexton not going for the lineout option from that range against a 14 man, obviously rattled All Blacks.
Both sides played to the ref, NZ being famous for it. Both sides pushed the boundaries, another thing NZ are famous for. Dagg was unlucky to get a yellow and to suggest he should have gotten a red is going way beyond the boundaries.

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Post by Biltong on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:37 pm

brennomac wrote:Does anybody think that Dagg was lucky to only get a yellow card for his charge on Kearney late in the game. From my viewing, Dagg seemed to lead with his elbow right into Kearney's head - if Dagg was really trying to block Kearney's kick, wouldn't his arms be up in the air. Whatever, it was a cheap shot and if only Kearney's kick had gone 10m further it would have been within Sexton's range.

Oh and god preserve us from one-eyed pundits. Sean Fitzpatrick saw nothing whatsoever wrong with Dagg's charge. Pathetic, especially from an NZ icon!

Tuilagi led with an elbow into Jean de Villier's face in the first test, he bled, not even a penalty, so in my view if that is the standard then he shouldn't have gotten a yellow card.
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Post by Bullsbok on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:37 pm

like i said yesterday. Some of you Notherners cant wait to see the red card being pulled out Doh
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Post by Thomond on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:49 pm

It was a penalty, a yellow in the most extreme scenario. Marshall had no problem with it. Bulls, leave that kind of BS out of the conversation.

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Post by anotherworldofpain on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:51 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:It was definately a penalty it was quite obvious what Dagg's intention was despite anotherworldofpain's seeming psychic link to what Dagg was thinking. I don't think it should ever have been a yellow and I was surprised at the time. Almost as surprised as I was at Sexton not going for the lineout option from that range against a 14 man, obviously rattled All Blacks.
Both sides played to the ref, NZ being famous for it. Both sides pushed the boundaries, another thing NZ are famous for. Dagg was unlucky to get a yellow and to suggest he should have gotten a red is going way beyond the boundaries.

Is not a psychic link, is based on his quote and my observe of what happen without the green glasses!

Are you telling me every time someone jump to charge down a kick and make contact with the kicker it's a yellow card? This happen in almost every game! I've never seen a yellow card. Most of the time I never see a penalty.

In a case, it was happen on 72 minutes so RED card = YELLOW card. He not coming back.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:17 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:It was definately a penalty it was quite obvious what Dagg's intention was despite anotherworldofpain's seeming psychic link to what Dagg was thinking. I don't think it should ever have been a yellow and I was surprised at the time. Almost as surprised as I was at Sexton not going for the lineout option from that range against a 14 man, obviously rattled All Blacks.
Both sides played to the ref, NZ being famous for it. Both sides pushed the boundaries, another thing NZ are famous for. Dagg was unlucky to get a yellow and to suggest he should have gotten a red is going way beyond the boundaries.

Is not a psychic link, is based on his quote and my observe of what happen without the green glasses!

Are you telling me every time someone jump to charge down a kick and make contact with the kicker it's a yellow card? This happen in almost every game! I've never seen a yellow card. Most of the time I never see a penalty.

In a case, it was happen on 72 minutes so RED card = YELLOW card. He not coming back.

You're funny, pain. Some Irish players should have had a yellow because they did things equally as questionable as Dagg (that's one of your points) but then Dagg didn't deserve the yellow anyway (that's another) and the guys who say he deserved the yellow but not the red are being deceitful as they know his yellow was virtually a red anyway given the time on the clock when he got it - and they're happy it was a virtual red because NHers love the colour red Wink

Yeah, you have us all worked out there, pain. We've been rumbled.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:19 pm

Meanwhile, back in the real world - I personally just wish we'd won. Now, there's a strange post-match thought in this age of meticulous detail on refs and stats and dark-arts at play.

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Post by Bullsbok on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:24 pm

Thomond wrote:It was a penalty, a yellow in the most extreme scenario. Marshall had no problem with it. Bulls, leave that kind of BS out of the conversation.

You keep bringing up Justin Marshall. Just because Marshall agreed doesnt make it the right call jeez.he was trying to be impartial obviously
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:26 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Thomond wrote:It was a penalty, a yellow in the most extreme scenario. Marshall had no problem with it. Bulls, leave that kind of BS out of the conversation.

You keep bringing up Justin Marshall. Just because Marshall agreed doesnt make it the right call jeez.he was trying to be impartial obviously

First one of the day then! Wink I salute him.

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Post by Thomond on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:32 pm

I don't see how it isn't and when Tuilagi got away with the elbow on JDV I was annoyed too. I also don't see how Kearney milked it he was up on his fett and smiling a few seconds later!

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:40 pm

He milked it because he's Irish and probably knows a thing or two about cows and tractors and stuff.

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Post by Thomond on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:42 pm

Kearney went to Clongowes. I doubt he knows anything about milking a cow!

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:43 pm

"Are you telling me every time someone jump to charge down a kick and make contact with the kicker it's a yellow card?"

No but to deliberately dive into a player is a penalty offence. I didn't say it should have been a yellow. I suggest you consult your law book by the way before talking rubbish on here.

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Post by rodders on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:43 pm

Not sure how much D4 boys know about milking cows?..... Whistle
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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:44 pm

Easily a penalty. Probably a yellow card. Definitely not a red card.

Dagg will learn from this, it didn't look like deliberate contact (as in lining up to do a number on Kearney), but it was stupid by him. If he has stayed front on and kept his arms in the air (in the motion of blocking the ball) he would have been fine. But knew the ball had gone, moved his body side on and had a leading elbow. Again not deliberate, but it was very reckless and in those situations you are handing the tough decision to the ref.

As for Kearney, I think Dagg hit him to ground and he looked back up in a bit of dis-belief wondering how anyone could be that silly about it. Don't know where the milking comes about. He did get clattered, didn't look for medics, didn't pull a wendyball roll, etc.

I don't know too much of the stats, but I reckon the man down didn't impact the game too much as NZ kept ball very well over the end of the game and Ireland didn't have/try any phases of play to try and exploit the one man advantage.

Tough loss for Ireland, credit to NZ for getting themselves over the line at the end of the game when they weren't firing on all cylinders (and weren't allowed to fire on all cylinders).

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:47 pm

rodders wrote:Not sure how much D4 boys know about milking cows?..... Whistle

Kearney is from my neck of the woods and believe me, it ain't D4 and it HAS cows Wink

But that's all neither here nor there actually, my actual point was missed. I'll try it again. I really liked the fiddledee, idledee music that was played for the Irish entrance onto the field. A nice 21 gun salute of potato cannon balls would have really made me emotional Wink

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:00 pm

SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:Not sure how much D4 boys know about milking cows?..... Whistle

Kearney is from my neck of the woods and believe me, it ain't D4 and it HAS cows Wink

But that's all neither here nor there actually, my actual point was missed. I'll try it again. I really liked the fiddledee, idledee music that was played for the Irish entrance onto the field. A nice 21 gun salute of potato cannon balls would have really made me emotional Wink

I thought that music intro was as good as any press clipping on the changing room wall. Maybe if they could add a fella selling potatoes out of a sack at the entrance to the tunnel alongside a lass flogging turnips

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:03 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:Not sure how much D4 boys know about milking cows?..... Whistle

Kearney is from my neck of the woods and believe me, it ain't D4 and it HAS cows Wink

But that's all neither here nor there actually, my actual point was missed. I'll try it again. I really liked the fiddledee, idledee music that was played for the Irish entrance onto the field. A nice 21 gun salute of potato cannon balls would have really made me emotional Wink

I thought that music intro was as good as any press clipping on the changing room wall. Maybe if they could add a fella selling potatoes out of a sack at the entrance to the tunnel alongside a lass flogging turnips

Make that potato fella a drunk with a Guinness mustache and it's a deal!

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:07 pm

I think we have just sorted out Ireland's next team mascot.

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Post by Biltong on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:08 pm

Thomond wrote:I don't see how it isn't and when Tuilagi got away with the elbow on JDV I was annoyed too. I also don't see how Kearney milked it he was up on his fett and smiling a few seconds later!

I agree he wasn't miling it, he was already smiling as he went down, he knew what was coming.
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Post by rodders on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:09 pm

I'm just disappointed we didn't get that drunk fella to sing Irelands call again guinness
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Post by fa0019 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:09 pm

Wasn't a red.... he jumped into him with his head turned the other way... if he looked into him looking to hurt him then maybe it would have been a red.

Just a bit of over-exuberance... a bit like Vuna on halfpenny... a little stupid but no intent.

Whats the difference anyhow, he was off for the rest of the game.... I guess the only difference is that he will play next saturday... even if they did the ABs could probably call up someone just as good so its little comfort if he was banned.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:10 pm

biltongbek wrote:
Thomond wrote:I don't see how it isn't and when Tuilagi got away with the elbow on JDV I was annoyed too. I also don't see how Kearney milked it he was up on his fett and smiling a few seconds later!

I agree he wasn't miling it, he was already smiling as he went down, he knew what was coming.

No that was just Dagg finishing the joke he'd been trying to tell him earlier. Must have been a good one to make Kearney smile...he's the Clint Eastwood of the Irish team.

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Post by Biltong on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:12 pm

Israel Dagg - lucky to only get a yellow card? Smiley-laughing021
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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:15 pm

"As for Kearney, I think Dagg hit him to ground and he looked back up in a bit of dis-belief wondering how anyone could be that silly about it. Don't know where the milking comes about. He did get clattered, didn't look for medics, didn't pull a wendyball roll, etc."

I did mean to say about that, anyone saying he was milking it is from an alternative reality.

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Post by Mickado on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:17 pm

If Kearney was going to milk it he should have changed his kick from a Garyowen to a full belt and made sure the penalty was further up the pitch.

I reckon he singlehandedly lost that test for us.

Kearney out.

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Post by Biltong on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:17 pm

Yep, no dairy cows around that I saw.
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Post by offload on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:22 pm

Penalty, yellow. Right decision.
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Post by anotherworldofpain on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:25 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:"Are you telling me every time someone jump to charge down a kick and make contact with the kicker it's a yellow card?"

No but to deliberately dive into a player is a penalty offence. I didn't say it should have been a yellow. I suggest you consult your law book by the way before talking rubbish on here.

"deliberately dive into a player" ... TACKLE, you mean? No this is not a penalty. Of course!

He was already commit to the action before the kick take place. If the ball was slightly lower and hit Dagg first then Dagg hit Kearney (which happen all the time) do you think is still a "YELLOW" or "PENALTY" ?

It is just a bad call by a referee who is too slow to keep up with the game so he make a guess all the time.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:30 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:"Are you telling me every time someone jump to charge down a kick and make contact with the kicker it's a yellow card?"

No but to deliberately dive into a player is a penalty offence. I didn't say it should have been a yellow. I suggest you consult your law book by the way before talking rubbish on here.

"deliberately dive into a player" ... TACKLE, you mean? No this is not a penalty. Of course!

He was already commit to the action before the kick take place. If the ball was slightly lower and hit Dagg first then Dagg hit Kearney (which happen all the time) do you think is still a "YELLOW" or "PENALTY" ?

It is just a bad call by a referee who is too slow to keep up with the game so he make a guess all the time.

You're almost right. Dagg knew he wouldn't get to Kearney in time so at that point he knew he was probably at the wrong end of the field and needed a quick air-braking system (he was in the air at the time) and an elastic band impulse push back up the field. Kearney was both.

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Post by anotherworldofpain on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:45 pm

I can't believe Pete wants to make player contact illegal in rugby!!!. Next thing you will be wanting them to join the hands and sing cumbaya at half time.

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Post by Thomond on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:47 pm

Mickado wrote:If Kearney was going to milk it he should have changed his kick from a Garyowen to a full belt and made sure the penalty was further up the pitch.

I reckon he singlehandedly lost that test for us.

Kearney out.


Deccie lost it for us. Sure if we didn't kick it we wouldn't have missed a penalty and under Deccie all we do is kick. For feic sake Deccie get it sorted!

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Post by Gordy on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:47 pm

Its a contact sport, a little perspective would not go amiss here.

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Post by Mickado on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:52 pm

Gordy wrote:Its a contact sport, a little perspective would not go amiss here.

Yes, and like a lot of contact sports, you are only permitted to make contact with the player who is in possession of the ball at the time that he has the ball.

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Post by Thomond on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:53 pm

The fact that Dagg uses his elbow and hits Kearney above the neck is the issue for me. Even if it wasa tackle he would give up a penalty. It's a high tackle!

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Post by anotherworldofpain on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:56 pm

Oh stop being the big girl!!!

He leaps and turns his body and there is contact as he lands.

Believe me if these guys put the elbow to the face on purpose the other guy will have the broken nose and blood coming. It was just a glancing blow of contact as he lands and is just typical of the sissy jobsworthie health-and-safety nonsense come to the game and destory it that so many poster so upset and wanted the red card. Just stop being soft and play on!

Keaney could just as well have take a step out his way and be a gentleman. But no! he wants the penalty so he jump to the ground like a football girl and acts like a professional in hollywood!

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