Argentina in the Rugby Championship

First topic message reminder :

Struggle...

Is the only word that can be used for the Pumas in the upcoming Rugby Championship.

Now the tours downunder its only weeks away until the next tournament in our zone.

For the record...
Since the professional era this is the record against the 3 SH sides:

-Played 28, won 1 (beat Aus 18-16 in 1997) for a 3.6% win rate.
-Average score of 41-17 with 5 tries to 2 scored.

In the same period they have 40 wins from 84 matches against 6N sides at 47.6%.
Notable wins since 2011 over France, Scotland and Italy.

Hardly the credentials to suggest a chance in this championship. Given the other 3 will see this match as must win for any hopes of the title Argentina are in for a torrid time in whats simply the toughest in Rugby to win where NO match is easy...until now.

Not sure I'd like the idea of dishing out 15 argentinian players to the S15 teams it would either become a nasty bidding war for a select few or a raffle.

Letting them set up their own one too would be tough I think but probably best as it gives them a strong identity, it also emans the Argies would get very good at playing with each other instead of having 15 lads spread all over SANZAR.

Imagine the travel required if Argentina had their own Super team. Every second week they'd be flying off around the world.

Pete, I don't see a problem with 1 per team or a bidding war. In fact I would suggest there should be 2 players added to the existing squads.

Australia needs forwards, SA needs backs, NZ needs ...well whatever is left.

Imagine the experience these 30 players could gain from playing in the Super XV.

It will be tremendous for their development, and these players will play in the same season as us.

It would be absolutely ridiculous but there doesn't seem to be many options on the table

For super 15 I still think a NZ/AUS Group 5 teams each, and SA/ARG group (6 SA 4 ARG) play a league home and away (cuts down on travel and more derbies.

Top 2 of each league (4 teams) playoff for cup home and away semi, next two for shield and next two for a plate

I think you're not far wrong Kingshu

it can be done, but it needs to be done in a way that pleases all the parties. Kingshu's idea looks good.

Argentina confirm Felipe Contepomi will be only high-profile player to miss Rugby Championship

SANZAR boss Greg Peters said Felipe Contepomi's decision to skip the Rugby Championship in favour of a club pre-season in France was a one-off, and there were no fears of his Pumas teammates following suit. Peters said he'd received a written explanation from Argentina official and former Test skipper Agustin Pichot explaining Contepomi's situation after ARU boss John O'Neill expressed concerns in The Daily Telegraph on Monday.
Former Pumas captain Contepomi will miss Argentina's historic entry into the inaugural Rugby Championship and instead train with club side Stade Francais. With fears it could prompt other Pumas to choose club over country in the future, O'Neill reminded the European giants of their obligation to release players for The Rugby Championship under IRB regulation 9 - and for the UAR to field a strongest possible side.

Peters said Argentina had given Contepomi, 34, a choice of playing in June or in TRC due to his long 15-year service. UAR agreed with European clubs they would not pick their stars in June to avoid burning them out.
"Their position is he is in his last year of international rugby and he was the only player given the option at this stage of his career," Peters said. "He chose the June inbounds to play at home for the last time."
Peters said the UAR had given assurances 26 other Pumas who play in France were available to play in August and October, and the youngsters who filled the breach in June (beating France) would step up as well.
There were no fears the example of Contepomi - who may still play a Test in November - would be followed by other Argentine players keen to please their French clubs, Peters said.
"There are no indications that's happening," he said

That's exactly what i thought was the case. O'Neill trying to make a big deal out of nothing again.

Feel bad for Felipe what a great player. One of my favourites without a doubt

I'll change my super rugby to

Conference 1
Aus/NZ 5 teams each compete in a League.

Arg turn the 25 provincial teams into feeder clubs for 3 Super Provinces, and a team from Uruguay (basically their national team).

Conference 2
ARG+URU 4 teams, South Africa 6 teams, complete in a leauge

Top 2 in each Conference play off home and away for cup
next 2 for a shield
next 2 for a plate.

season = 8-13 games per team or play home and away twice in league season = 16-21 games.

More derbies and a lot less travel, let AUS/NZ build up rivilaries with each other and ARG/URU and SA.

I dunno Kingshu. The South Africans would probably go to Europe before setting up a league with Argentina, they'd probably lose a lot financially. It makes sense logistically though and it would be the only way super rugby would work with Argentina.

The probelm you will have with Super rugby being on three continents is the number of teams that has to travel.

Currently SA are already spending a lot of time on the road and it means they are away for a whole month.

whereas NZ and OZ just pop over the Tasman see when they play each other, and if they do travel to SA, they can do it over 10 days if they wish.

Once you add Argentinian Franchises to the picture it would mean all teams have a lot of travelling to do spanning thise three continents.
now by implication that means in a normal round robin tournament teams will have to play 3/4 of their matches against foreign team which will never be approved as the conference system has been designed to create more local derbies.

If you retain conferences and say they must play two seperate pools then you have a situation where the OZ and NZ pool will be much stronger than the SA and ARGentina one (for the first number of years anyway).

So having two pools one with 6-7 strong teams and one with 4-5 teams will be totally unfair.

The only solution I see is that each country hosts it own conference with as many teams as they want but limited to say 6, and the best 2 qualify either for a single round robin or knock out rounds.

Those 8 qualifying teams in my view should then play a single round robin to establish smei finalists.

The more and more I read about this, the more and more I believe that it should just a once off be a bidding war for the Argentinian players and each S15 team must take at least 1.

That just keeps it nice and simple and means there is no mucking around with scheduling or structure and yet the Argies will be available for TRC.

If I was a coach of a S15 team and guys like Roncero, Albicete, Ledesma, Hernandez, Agualla, Ambrossino all came on the market I'd be very interested.

Pete I agree, although I suggested earlier the Franchise squads should just increase with 2 argentinian players, the injuries this year alone proves they can all do with a few more players.

But Pete how would the European teams feel if they had to take one 2nd tier European player to improve Europe. Especially if there is a limit on the number of NIQ or eqivalent kind of rule. So for example Quins (I think) can't have Nick Evans but have to take a Russian or Georgian player.

New Zealand is exporting players galore because we can't compete with the NH money. Why would we want to even further reduce the number of NZ players in our squads?

I think we need to find a way for Arg players to earn a living playing in Arg not overseas.

The problem with a NZ / Aus conference is that we really want to play the SA teams because of the historic rivalry.

The problem with a NZ / Aus conference is that we really want to play the SA teams because of the historic rivalry.

I agree with that.

Why is this any different to italy.

they joined the 6 nations and as the standards were improved their players were picked up by clubs across the world. Making clubs pick up an Argentine player does nothing to help anyone.

The Argentines are getting it spot on at the moment and i expect them to improve exponentially by RWC 2015; if anything they are the team to watch; notoriously good at RWC and after 4 years of 4 Nations championships they will be a fine side.

a domestic league doesn't necessarily increase the standard of a national side - look at Japan

I don't think super XV teams will want to take ARG players and have local players miss out, they want to develop as many national players as possible.

Does anyone think that maybe super ruby is expanding to much? each country making more and more teams

Why not go down the H-cup route, forget the super teams and have the Currie cup, ITM cup Aus cup and an ARG cup. Top 4 from the prevous year play in a southern Hemp competation??

That won't happen Kinshu. The boradcasters won't by into the Currie Cup, ITM Cup etc to be part of the contract.


Waht you are suggesting is effectively a Super 12 (until ARg has 4 teams) and the bean counters ain't going to go for reduced format.

The whole idea is SA want 6 teams in that comp, NZ and OZ would probably like the same, as there is more money for them the more teams compete there.

Just a note: only 9 or so players from the June series are in the squad for the rugby championship. The new players are mainly from French teams that made the knock out rounds in the top 14.

I wrote an extensive reply to this thread in the early hours of this morning it has been deleted why?if I have offended someone at leasthave the decency to inform me how Alan/Emack 2. have i been banned?

Alan you sure it was on this thread?

You made two posts in the morning, one at 1h49 am on "who's luck will tuern, and one at 6h40 this morning om "who will win the rugby championship"

It maybe I was incorrect certainly wrote on this thread but we suffered 4 power outages due to flooded substations locally so may not have got there.
From what I have seen of the Argentina training squad there side will be no pushover especially at home.None of the 3Ns sides have played at anything like full strength since 2011.A lot of patching up having to be done a dedicated Argentina Super side Jaguars ?.Would make more sense than constantly expanding a Tournament whose only value is to the bean counters.In any given year 3[at best]Australian,3 South African and 4 New Zealand sides are a viable proposition.Instead we have a ludicrous politically motivated extra SA side introduced.IF as I have been informed they are as poor as i`ve been told makes no sense except to the bean counters.Spreading say 40 Argentians among 1 6 franchises hardly helps them either.We have" a never mind the quality feel the width" type Tournament which only the bean counters want.Players in a smaller
Super tournament of properly supported teams,a solid Currie Cup/ITM where stars sometimes visit the faithful.Players rotated thru Domestic comps so they are properly rested and recuperated and saved for tests .Is the ideal .To much like utopia less meaning less tests,more developing ones to tier2 to develop promising players.Sense and money does`nt come into it,IF the Southern Kings start next year Lions almost certainly won`t.Litigation comes into then Sanzar start Squabbling SA will say they provide all the money what we want we get,bad feeling all round.probably have an 18or 20 match Super series which will be Super in name only.Players will spend more time in rehab/ recovering from injury Test teams will field more weaker teams.Players may decide Overseas and money is worth more than the hassle.Alreadyplayers with a shelf life at test level are retiring for easy pickings abroad.If you have 40 Caps why knock your self out 27 or 28 go abroad for another relatively easy years in Top 14 or Japan.Half a million Sterling or it near equivalent for a top player for 7 years very nice plus perks,Club House,Car,Medical Plan,Home at 40 to a nice coaching or Commentating job.lovely Jubbley.Am I cynical you bet!!!telling it like it is do I blame them no Blame the system.

To deal with the Contepomi thing - he is 35 and the Pumas have to move on without him. With Juan Martin Hernandez back, who missed the World Cup through injury, it lessens the need for Contepomi's experience.

On Argentina in the Rugby Championship - they might not win a game for the first couple of seasons, but be in no doubt that Puma rugby is on an upward curve and if I was a Northern Hemisphere side, I would be looking at 2015 and 2019 and suddenly very afraid. The Pumas are currently on a level par already with England, France, Wales and Ireland and are better than Scotland and Italy. Playing the big three every season will see them improve.

In regards to their team that played the June Internations - a third choice side at best and some very very young amateur players. Still beat a first choice Italian side comfortably and drew a series vs France. With 24 new players coming in for The Rugby Championship, they will be a completely different side.

Likely 22:

1. Ayerza - Best LH in Premiership finally becomes first choice for his country.
2. Creevy - Great ball carrier for Montpellier with Sonny Bill like offloads.
3. Figallo - Awarded best player in Pool B in WC and will be best TH in world.
4. Carizza- Monster Second Row who plays for Biaritzz.
5. Albacete - No introduction needed.
6. De La Vega - 21 year old find from June Ints - genuine open side.
7. Leguizamon - Proven international blindside.
8. Lobbe - Great leader and great player.
9. Vergallo - under pressure for place after poor season for Toulouse.
10. Hernandez - never the same after injuries- we shall see.
11. Imhoff - any watching the Top 14 will know about this lad. Wow.
12. Rodriguez - tough one on Fernandez but Rodriguez excellent for Stade.
13. Agulla - a risk but could make the transition with Tiesi out injured.
14. Moyano - Best kicker in Top 14 and scores tries too.
15. Amorosino - Line breaks for fun and deserves a go as first choice.

16. Guinazu - played well at hooker for Biaritzz and also covers LH.
17. Bustos - the Montpellier man is the new Martin Scelzo.
18. Carbello - with Galarza out injured, Carbello will cover donkey row.
19. Senatore - Toulon man unlucky not to make starting 15 at 8.
20. Landajo - another June find in ahead of Brive's outstanding Figuerola.
21. Fernandez - Montpellier man covering 10 and 12
22. Bosch - Biaritzz man cover 10, 12, 13 and 15

ArgieFan - you'll be interested to know that Phelan has added Manuel Montero to the squad. Definitely one for the future.

Manuel Montero added to Pumas squad

Argentina´ squad has increased from thirty-three to thirty four players with the addition of 20 year old Los Pampas XV winger Manuel Montero. He becomes officially the sixth winger in the squad joining five European based players who all had solid seasons in England and France. Montero looms as a future star for Argentina having come through the ranks and playing in the IRB Junior World Championship. He made his international debut this year against Uruguay and has played in all six of Argentina´ test matches so far this season, scoring six tries - five in the South American Championship and one against France in Córdoba. His try against France secured a win for Los Pumas with France having been leading with the match into its final minutes.

The inclusion of the young winger is a further indication of the chances that Santiago Phelan will be moving players from the wing to play centre and fullback. Lucas González Amorosino played the entire season for Montpellier at fullback and is all but certain to start in the position for Los Pumas in The Rugby Championship. Horacio Agulla started for Leicester on the right wing but was used on occassion at outside centre. With Argentina looking to play a more attacking brand of rugby the wing positions are likely to be filled by Juan Imhoff who had an outstanding debut season for Racing Métro and either Gonzalo Camacho or Martín Bustos Moyano. Camacho won the award for Game Changer of the season in the Aviva Premiership while Bustos Moyano had a solid second season in France and is Argentina´ best goalkicker.

Rafael Carballo is the squads remaining winger with the player also capable of playing in the centres. Like Agulla he was utilized in the midfield by Bordeaux-Begles at times this past season. Argentina´ squad is lacking specialist centres with Gonzalo Tiesi only just having returned to the field this past Saturday. It leaves Phelan with the choice of continuning to play Marcelo Bosch in the 13 shirt and utilizing either Santiago Fernández or Martín Rodríguez at 12. Or, moving Agulla to outside centre to partner one of these three. It would seem to be the likely scenario for Los Pumas´ debut match in The Rugby Championship against South Africa on August 18 in Cape Town. This would explain the inclusion of Montero who brings the total of likely wingers in the squad to four as he joins Bustos Moyano, Camacho and Imhoff.

Cheers Argie Fan. It's awesome that you're providing us with all this info. The more I get the more excited I am that your guys are joining in the fun.

agree disney its great to get more insight in to the other country's players and set ups.

You know before I joined 606 I thought Brits just all got on together.

nganboy wrote:agree disney its great to get more insight in to the other country's players and set ups.

You know before I joined 606 I thought Brits just all got on together.

Tell me about it, until I came on 606, I was merrily going along through life convinced that Leinster was in England.

it isn't?

Haha Nah its in Ireland.