Pick who you think will be in your nations starting XV come the Six Nations in 2013

by maestegmafia Sun 15 Jul 2012, 3:27 pm

As the new season approaches and we excitedly discuss our new squads at club level, there are projections and predictions flying around various threads of players likely to get a cap, get forgotten or get their act together after poor form.

So who will make an introduction to the stage, who will bid farewell and who will be a shinning light come Febuary 2013.

by gowales Sun 15 Jul 2012, 4:37 pm

1.Jenkins
2.Owens
3.Jones
4.Davies
5.AWJ
6.Lydiate
7.Warburton
8.Faletau
9.Phillips
10.Priestland
11.North
12.Roberts
13.Davies
14.Cuthbert
15.Halfpenny

It's hard to look past this XV. Second row is debatable but the rest of the side pretty much picks itself. Unless there are major losses in form, players in outstanding form, this will most likely be it.

by Morgannwg Sun 15 Jul 2012, 6:30 pm

Well if Ryan Jones continues his outstand form he will be pencilled in at number 8. I hope we have more fly-halves and no Hook by this time.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 15 Jul 2012, 6:35 pm

Ryan Jones is playing in the form of his life, he really does have to feature for Wales IMO.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 15 Jul 2012, 6:36 pm

Marler
Grey
Sinckler
Robson
Kohn
Robshaw (c.)
Wallace
Easter
Care
Cipriani
Monye
JTH
Lowe
Banahan
Brown

Seems pretty likely...

Or more seriously, i'd like to see

Corbs
Hartley
Cole
Parling
Launchberry
Wood
Robshaw
Morgan
Youngs
Flood
Ashton
Allen
Tuilagi
Foden
Brown

Marler, Youngs, Hardin, N.E.Body, Croft/Haskell, Care, Goode, Joseph

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 15 Jul 2012, 6:41 pm

Ireland for the 2013 6 nations:

1) Healy
2) Best
3) Ross
4) Ryan
5) O'Connell
6) Ferris
7) O'Brien
8) Heaslip
9) Murray
10) Sexton
11) Earls
12) D'Arcy
13) O'Driscoll
14) Bowe
15) Kearney

Kidney will still be in charge, so if everyone is fit I am almost certain that would be the team. Players I hope to see feature during the 6 nations are Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney Jr, Fitzgerald, O'Mahony, with possibly Dominic Ryan, Spence and Macklin too. Hanrahan and Henderson are two players who also should be on the radar fairly soon, from the U20s.

Ireland actually have tremendous talent coming through, however by the time we actually use it, everyone else will be a step ahead. We are dangerously conservative and it actually stalls the development of many of our players.

by IanBru Sun 15 Jul 2012, 7:17 pm

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Strokosch
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. De Luca
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg

Breaking through: Pat McArthur (hooker), Rob Harley (blindside), Tom Ryder (lock), Alex Dunbar (Centre), and Stuart McInally.
Put out to pasture: Graeme Morrison, Al Jacobsen, Nikki Walker, and Hugo Southwell
Back with a bang: Kelly Brown and Johnnie Beattie.
Shining light: Laidlaw, Gray (again), Murray, Visser, and Scott.
On the horizon: Harry Leonard (Stand-off) Jamie Farndale (wing), Mark Bennett (Stand-off/Centre), and Mitch Eadie (Number 8).

by yappysnap Sun 15 Jul 2012, 7:40 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Marler
Grey
Sinckler
Robson
Kohn
Robshaw (c.)
Wallace
Easter
Care
Cipriani
Monye
JTH
Lowe
Banahan
Brown

Seems pretty likely...

Or more seriously, i'd like to see

Corbs
Hartley
tuCole
Parling
Launchberry
Wood
Robshaw
Morgan
Youngs
Flood
Ashton
Allen
Tuilagi
Foden
Bro

Marler, Youngs, Hardin, N.E.Body, Croft/Haskell, Care, Goode, Joseph

I was with you till Banahan, then I knew that you must be joking!

The second team, change Launchberry for Palmer, change Wood for Haskell, Allen for Barrett and finally I think the Foden experiment will have finished.

Oh and I can guarantee that at least one of the certs will be injured.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 15 Jul 2012, 7:52 pm

1.Jenkins
2.Owens
3.Jones
4.Evans
5.AWJ (Charteris)
6.Lydiate
7.Warburton
8.Faletau

9.Phillips
10.Priestland (Biggar)

11.North
12.Roberts
13.Davies
14.Cuthbert
15.Halfpenny

Thats the team I think will be picked if all fit and would be reasonably happy with the two in brackets are who I would pick

by funnyExiledScot Sun 15 Jul 2012, 7:58 pm

IanBru wrote:1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Strokosch
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. De Luca
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg

Breaking through: Pat McArthur (hooker), Rob Harley (blindside), Tom Ryder (lock), Alex Dunbar (Centre), and Stuart McInally.
Put out to pasture: Graeme Morrison, Al Jacobsen, Nikki Walker, and Hugo Southwell
Back with a bang: Kelly Brown and Johnnie Beattie.
Shining light: Laidlaw, Gray (again), Murray, Visser, and Scott.
On the horizon: Harry Leonard (Stand-off) Jamie Farndale (wing), Mark Bennett (Stand-off/Centre), and Mitch Eadie (Number 8).

Can't disagree with much of this. I think Lee Jones will be right back in contention next season, and I expect Max Evans also to be there or there abouts. Also think Tim Swinson will be a big hit at Glasgow and come into contention.

Still, your XV is about right.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 15 Jul 2012, 10:21 pm

1. Bevington
2. Hibbard
3. Rhodri Jones
4. Evans
5. Davies
6. Lydiate
7. Tipuric
8. Pretorious
9. Knoyle
10. Tovey
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. 1/2p

A few randoms there I hear you ask, but with the lions around the corner a few key (glass) players will be wrapped up...

Adam Jones
Sam Warburton

I also think the Wales tight 5 lacks ball carrying options, Bevington, Hibbard and Jones I think are our best carrying front row at present, we will give away scrum advantage but I can handle that.

As good as Biggars been I can't see it, I think any sort of form from Tovey will be the excuse needed to leapfrog him over Biggar, and with some quick ball he might just come good.

by maestegmafia Sun 15 Jul 2012, 11:30 pm

Tovey has the talent, likewise I believe Knoyle does too.

Good post.

I don't think Adam, Geth and James will get so wrapped up in cotton wool.

But I would like to see Wales blood more front rows in the six nations.

by lostinwales Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:35 am

So far the selections seem to be all pretty close to last year barring the odd injury recover/turn around. Maybe a better question might be who people expect to break into the same old groups?

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Jul 2012, 6:47 am

With Priestland prone to the yips and Biggar out of favour, surely this has to be Tovey's international breakthrough season?
Wales could do much, much worse.

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Jul 2012, 6:52 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
IanBru wrote:1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Strokosch
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. De Luca
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg

Breaking through: Pat McArthur (hooker), Rob Harley (blindside), Tom Ryder (lock), Alex Dunbar (Centre), and Stuart McInally.
Put out to pasture: Graeme Morrison, Al Jacobsen, Nikki Walker, and Hugo Southwell
Back with a bang: Kelly Brown and Johnnie Beattie.
Shining light: Laidlaw, Gray (again), Murray, Visser, and Scott.
On the horizon: Harry Leonard (Stand-off) Jamie Farndale (wing), Mark Bennett (Stand-off/Centre), and Mitch Eadie (Number 8).

Can't disagree with much of this. I think Lee Jones will be right back in contention next season, and I expect Max Evans also to be there or there abouts. Also think Tim Swinson will be a big hit at Glasgow and come into contention.

Still, your XV is about right.

Would have his KellyBrows in at 6 instead of the Head Clash Monster, but otherwise that looks like our best XV.

Can we sort out our demons and actually win matches with this shower, that is the question.

The other question is whether this will be Farndale and Bennett's season to make an international emergence. I doubt it - each of them needs at least one full pro club season to get their feet under the table and their bodies up to the rigours.

by R!skysports Mon 16 Jul 2012, 9:44 am

IanBru wrote:1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. ~~Strokosch~~ Brown (subject to getting form back)
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. De Luca
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg

Breaking through: Pat McArthur (hooker), Rob Harley (blindside), Tom Ryder (lock), Alex Dunbar (Centre), and Stuart McInally.
Put out to pasture: Graeme Morrison, Al Jacobsen, Nikki Walker, and Hugo Southwell
Back with a bang: Kelly Brown and Johnnie Beattie.
Shining light: Laidlaw, Gray (again), Murray, Visser, and Scott.
On the horizon: Harry Leonard (Stand-off) Jamie Farndale (wing), Mark Bennett (Stand-off/Centre), and Mitch Eadie (Number 8).

by bluestonevedder Mon 16 Jul 2012, 10:52 am

Hopefully England will have got back a lot of the injured players from last seaosn. I'd hope to see:

Corbs
Youngs
Cole
Lawes
Palmer
Haskell
Robshaw
Morgan
Care
Flood
Ashton
Allen
Tuilagi
Sharples
Goode

Bench players: Foden, Wood, Marler, Hartley, Launchberry....and a few others (undecided as of yet)

Monster carrying capacity in the backrow, and good work rate on the flanks. Robshaw's seriously impressed me at 7. Goode is on a better vein of form than Foden at the moment and deserves a run of starts. Sharples is one i'd love to see given a consistent run out also.

by red_stag Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:10 am

From an Ireland point of view a lot depends on the provinces. For example if Ulster line up as:

11 Gilroy
12 Wallace
13 Bowe
14 Trimble

then I think we would or could see it reflected in the Irish team. Similarly if Munster decide that James Downey is a good lump but JJ Hanrahan breathes life into their backline then he could very well feature. And if Schmidt decides that his backline has McFadden at 12 in all the Heineken Cup matches you can bet your bottom dollar Kidney will replicate that internationally.

I think by March 2013 (i.e. the Six Nations) we will be looking at:

01 Cian Healy
02 Rory Best
03 Mike Ross
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Stephen Ferris
07 Sean O'Brien
08 Jamie Heaslip
09 Conor Murray
10 Jonathan Sexton
11 Keith Earls
12 Fergus McFadden
13 Brian O'Driscoll
14 Tommy Bowe
15 Rob Kearney

16 Sean Cronin
17 Declan Fitzpatrick
18 Dan Tuohy
19 Peter O'Mahony
20 Eoin Reddan
21 Ian Madigan
22 Craig Gilroy

by **rodders** Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:18 am

I think you've been out in the sun too long stag..... Whistle

I'll eat my hat if McFadden is starting at 12 and Madigan and Gilroy are on the bench come the 6N.

I'd say we'll be looking at:

01 Cian Healy
02 Rory Best
03 Mike Ross
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Stephen Ferris
07 Sean O'Brien
08 Jamie Heaslip
09 Conor Murray
10 Jonathan Sexton
11 Keith Earls / Fergus McFadden
12 Gordon D'arcy / Keith Earls
13 Brian O'Driscoll
14 Tommy Bowe
15 Rob Kearney

16 Sean Cronin
17 Tom Court
18 Donnacha O'Callaghan
19 Peter O'Mahony
20 Eoin Reddan
21 Ronan O'Gara
22 Fergus McFadden/ Andrew Trimble

There's a couple of guys like Tuohy, Zebo, Paddy Wallace and Fitzpatrick who may feature if there are injuries but beyond that I'd say there'll be little change.

by red_stag Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:25 am

Rodders, I'll expect that hat to be well and truly eaten come March. We aren't talking about the Autumn its the 6 Nations.

by **rodders** Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:30 am

Stag I think we'll see more change in the Autumn than in the 6N. Unless there is a change to the coaching set up I think we'll see a very familiar looking side come the 6N.

Fitzpatrick and Gilroy may not even be starting regularly for Ulster.

Kidney clearly sees D'arcy, Earls and Wallace as his only options in the centre alongside BOD...apart from Sexton who won't move.

McFadden is seen as a winger and bench man and on the evidence of the tour looks to be edging out Trimble from the 22.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:32 am

Riskysports wrote:
IanBru wrote:1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. ~~Strokosch~~ Brown (subject to getting form back)
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. De Luca
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg

Breaking through: Pat McArthur (hooker), Rob Harley (blindside), Tom Ryder (lock), Alex Dunbar (Centre), and Stuart McInally.
Put out to pasture: Graeme Morrison, Al Jacobsen, Nikki Walker, and Hugo Southwell
Back with a bang: Kelly Brown and Johnnie Beattie.
Shining light: Laidlaw, Gray (again), Murray, Visser, and Scott.
On the horizon: Harry Leonard (Stand-off) Jamie Farndale (wing), Mark Bennett (Stand-off/Centre), and Mitch Eadie (Number 8).

I think that's about right, the only name that makes me nervous is De Luca. I foresee big season's ahead for Hogg, Dozer and Scott - the trio have the opportunity to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are the real mccoy

Braveheart

by **rodders** Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:36 am

Johnie Beattie?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:45 am

rodders wrote:Johnnie Beattie?

Might get his mojo back, but there is a big question mark over that in my mind, rodders

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:52 am

Bluesman - why would we rest up possible lions players? It is the 6Ns and we are defending champions. Surely we would go with the best we can feild?

I think we will proabably have

First CHoice (Second Choice)

Jenkins (R Jones)
Owens (Rees)
A Jones (P James/ S Lee?)
I Evans (B Davies)
AW Jones (Chateris / Reed)
Lydiate (Shingler)
Warburton (Tipuric)
Faletau (R Jones)

Phillips (Webb)
Priestland (Tovey / Biggar?)
North (Robinson)
Roberts (Beck)
Davies (S Williams)
Cuthbert (Stoddart / Prydie?)
Halfpenny (L Williams)

I think Samon Lee, Jason Tovey and Tom Prydie may all get into the 6Ns squad (possibly above more proven players) as the management try to work out how they will fit into the squad, and if they have the potential to be of use for the 2015 RWC. Other than that, I dount we will see too many new faces unless those who have moved away fail to show form.

by gowales Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:55 am

Why would Rhdori Jones be second choice loosehead? James, Gill and Bevington are all arguably ahead of him. Mitchell is ahead of Lee for tighthead as well. A tad bit of Scarlets bias perhaps? Smile

by gowales Mon 16 Jul 2012, 11:59 am

Actually reading what you said about how they might bring Lee into the squad, that could be the case. But i think it would be at the expsense of R Jones or Bevington, not another tighead.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 16 Jul 2012, 12:16 pm

go - maybe your favouring Bevington is a bit of Osprey bias? I don't rate Gill, he seems a bit of a liability (gut feeling from what I have seen). And if James and Jones are there then that would be two players who are very good losseheads, but also acceptable tightheads too. But I can see where your coming from with Mitchell.

by gowales Mon 16 Jul 2012, 12:24 pm

Bevington just seems to be the more favoured loosehead between them, the management seem more interested in playing R Jones as a tighthead.

by gowales Mon 16 Jul 2012, 12:30 pm

Remember by the 6 nations the 23 man squads will be in full force. There will be no need for props who can cover both loosehead and tighthead.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 16 Jul 2012, 12:36 pm

go - but IMO James is our second best Tight-head and Jones is our 2/3 (behind Jenkins and James) best loose-head. It just happens that they can play both sides. Maybe with Bevington being the first choice at the Ospreys this season my opinion will change come 6Ns (I doubt it though).

by gowales Mon 16 Jul 2012, 12:41 pm

I strongly disagree that Jones is our 3 best loosehead, in no way shape or form is he the 2nd best.
Gill is defo ahead of him, for one i have much more confidence in him holding the scrum up than Jones at this moment in time.
In all honesty i'd let Jones have more game time with Scarlets, same with Bevington.

Jones is the 4th best tighthead in the management's eyes and that's where they see him atm, that could change by the 6 nations though.

by Geordie Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:06 pm

Cant see many changes for England:
Note this is not the team i would put out....but this is what i believe will start:

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Parling
5 Palmer / Lawes (Only position im not sure)
6 Johnson
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

9 Youngs
10 Flood
11 Sharples
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

by anotherworldofpain Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:27 pm

Ok, Wales, ENG and IRE all lose their SH tours 3-0 (or 2-0 in ENG case), so there is shows something about the players and squad not quite good enough to compete at the "next level". ENG to more extent and WAL to less extent can offer up the idea about "growing" and "developing" but the IRE team have been developed and grown for a number of years.

Given the "gap" still exist do you think it is time to look for more radical selection to the 1st combinator? and bring in more U20's and developer players who show potential for the "X-Factor" needed to get a win in the SH?

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:33 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:Ok, Wales, ENG and IRE all lose their SH tours 3-0 (or 2-0 in ENG case), so there is shows something about the players and squad not quite good enough to compete at the "next level". ENG to more extent and WAL to less extent can offer up the idea about "growing" and "developing" but the IRE team have been developed and grown for a number of years.

Given the "gap" still exist do you think it is time to look for more radical selection to the 1st combinator? and bring in more U20's and developer players who show potential for the "X-Factor" needed to get a win in the SH?

THe 6Ns is agains the NH sides so track records against the SH mean sod all. Maybe the AIs are times to experiment, but the 6Ns is a serious competition to be competed for by the best teams that the 6Ns sides can put out, and not a training ground for when we play the SH sides next.

by clivemcl Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:35 pm

rodders wrote:Stag I think we'll see more change in the Autumn than in the 6N. Unless there is a change to the coaching set up I think we'll see a very familiar looking side come the 6N.

Fitzpatrick and Gilroy may not even be starting regularly for Ulster.

Kidney clearly sees D'arcy, Earls and Wallace as his only options in the centre alongside BOD...apart from Sexton who won't move.

McFadden is seen as a winger and bench man and on the evidence of the tour looks to be edging out Trimble from the 22.

Is it possible that Ulster may be asked to take a look at Bowe at 13? Probably not, but if hey did, I'd love to see a backline of

9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Earls
12 BOD
13 Bowe
14 Gilroy
15 Kearney

Pick who you think will be in your nations starting XV come the Six Nations in 2013 3933776953

Pick who you think will be in your nations starting XV come the Six Nations in 2013 3933776953

by IanBru Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:45 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Can't disagree with much of this. I think Lee Jones will be right back in contention next season, and I expect Max Evans also to be there or there abouts. Also think Tim Swinson will be a big hit at Glasgow and come into contention.

Still, your XV is about right.

Re Jones and Evans - yeah, if i'd proposed a bench, one or the other would have featured. I'd probably lean more towards Jones who seems to have handled the step up to 6N level better than I expected. Swinson could be pretty tidy - I didn't want to say anything conclusive until I've actually seen him play; to date, I've seen nada.

George Carlin wrote:Would have his KellyBrows in at 6 instead of the Head Clash Monster, but otherwise that looks like our best XV.

This was a tough one - I suppose if he plays well for Sarries and puts in a good shift in the AIs he'll be in with a shout, but Stroker is the incumbant, and wasn't there to 'deputise' for anyone this summer. Until the real emergance of Gray, KB was without doubt our best player, but I'm genuinely terrified (sleepless nights and cold sweats) that he'll do a Jason White and not quite get back to his best, yet keep out better players based on his former glories. No doubt, if KB returns to his best form, he would rightfully be in the starting XV, and possibly captain.

George Carlin wrote:The other question is whether this will be Farndale and Bennett's season to make an international emergence. I doubt it - each of them needs at least one full pro club season to get their feet under the table and their bodies up to the rigours.

Exactly - they're ones to watch at club level who could, possibly, get a run in blue in the next twelve months. Bennett is going to have to start playing for Clermont 1st team - if he doesn't, his 'wonder move' is going to start looking like a mistake, and a one-way ticket to international tumbleweed land.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I think that's about right, the only name that makes me nervous is De Luca. I foresee big season's ahead for Hogg, Dozer and Scott - the trio have the opportunity to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are the real mccoy

Oh deary me. Playing De Luca is like a prostate exam - you know you don't have a choice, and it's probably a good idea, but you're damned if you're going to look forward to it. Hogg, Dozer and Scott could all be greats if given a chance. With Hogg and Scott playing alongside Blair and Laidlaw, I love the multi-axis kicking threat that they provide. Visser and Jones are strong under the high ball and well-versed in taking kick-through balls, so I'd like to see some cheeky grubbers, particularly at Twickers.

by Geordie Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:45 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:Ok, Wales, ENG and IRE all lose their SH tours 3-0 (or 2-0 in ENG case), so there is shows something about the players and squad not quite good enough to compete at the "next level". ENG to more extent and WAL to less extent can offer up the idea about "growing" and "developing" but the IRE team have been developed and grown for a number of years.

Given the "gap" still exist do you think it is time to look for more radical selection to the 1st combinator? and bring in more U20's and developer players who show potential for the "X-Factor" needed to get a win in the SH?

The question was who i thought would start...not who i want (there are loads of threads on that)

I could list 4/5/6 players i hope are in the starting lineup but none of us are mind readers. We dont know that Wade will sort his suspect defence out...or that May will continue his progression...or that Attwood will find his old rampaging form...or that Fearns will get seriously fit...or Tom Youngs will be stand out for Leicester or that Twelvtrees will be the standout 12 in the league...etc etc Thats just England...dont forget wales, Ireland etc all have their ? over players aswell.

by anotherworldofpain Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:46 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
anotherworldofpain wrote:Ok, Wales, ENG and IRE all lose their SH tours 3-0 (or 2-0 in ENG case), so there is shows something about the players and squad not quite good enough to compete at the "next level". ENG to more extent and WAL to less extent can offer up the idea about "growing" and "developing" but the IRE team have been developed and grown for a number of years.

Given the "gap" still exist do you think it is time to look for more radical selection to the 1st combinator? and bring in more U20's and developer players who show potential for the "X-Factor" needed to get a win in the SH?

THe 6Ns is agains the NH sides so track records against the SH mean sod all. Maybe the AIs are times to experiment, but the 6Ns is a serious competition to be competed for by the best teams that the 6Ns sides can put out, and not a training ground for when we play the SH sides next.

In my mind this is what drive the "two tier" system that is developing, and why the 6N teams largely fail to competing in the RWC.

by anotherworldofpain Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:46 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
anotherworldofpain wrote:Ok, Wales, ENG and IRE all lose their SH tours 3-0 (or 2-0 in ENG case), so there is shows something about the players and squad not quite good enough to compete at the "next level". ENG to more extent and WAL to less extent can offer up the idea about "growing" and "developing" but the IRE team have been developed and grown for a number of years.

Given the "gap" still exist do you think it is time to look for more radical selection to the 1st combinator? and bring in more U20's and developer players who show potential for the "X-Factor" needed to get a win in the SH?

The question was who i thought would start...not who i want (there are loads of threads on that)

I could list 4/5/6 players i hope are in the starting lineup but none of us are mind readers. We dont know that Wade will sort his suspect defence out...or that May will continue his progression...or that Attwood will find his old rampaging form...or that Fearns will get seriously fit...or Tom Youngs will be stand out for Leicester or that Twelvtrees will be the standout 12 in the league...etc etc Thats just England...dont forget wales, Ireland etc all have their ? over players aswell.

Ok! Far enough thumbsup

by Geordie Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:53 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
anotherworldofpain wrote:Ok, Wales, ENG and IRE all lose their SH tours 3-0 (or 2-0 in ENG case), so there is shows something about the players and squad not quite good enough to compete at the "next level". ENG to more extent and WAL to less extent can offer up the idea about "growing" and "developing" but the IRE team have been developed and grown for a number of years.

Given the "gap" still exist do you think it is time to look for more radical selection to the 1st combinator? and bring in more U20's and developer players who show potential for the "X-Factor" needed to get a win in the SH?

The question was who i thought would start...not who i want (there are loads of threads on that)

I could list 4/5/6 players i hope are in the starting lineup but none of us are mind readers. We dont know that Wade will sort his suspect defence out...or that May will continue his progression...or that Attwood will find his old rampaging form...or that Fearns will get seriously fit...or Tom Youngs will be stand out for Leicester or that Twelvtrees will be the standout 12 in the league...etc etc Thats just England...dont forget wales, Ireland etc all have their ? over players aswell.

Ok! Far enough

Ask me again in January...and ill be able to give you a much better idea of what team i think...and what team i want out there.

England alone have many players (youngsters and those looking to regain form) right on the verge of making it...or not...and by January, i think we'll have a good idea of where we are...who will make it and who should be left as decent club players....

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 16 Jul 2012, 1:54 pm

AWOP -I don't want to go off topic. However no team enters a tournament witht he idea of trying out new sides. They go in to feild their best side and to win the games. The summer tours and the AIs are where the new players get blooded and prove their worth. (also are there any teir two teams in the 6Ns, italy are only ones rated below 10th in the IRB rankings).

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 16 Jul 2012, 2:06 pm

Have to pick up the mantle of defending DeLuca again who seems to be in for unfair harsh criticism yet again from certain Scottish posters.

In the summer tour he resolutlly defended his channel and co-ordinated the defensive effort that kept us afloat during the Ozzie onslaught. Making 6 tackles and missing none. He also made the clean break that got us out of dodge and gained us the Field position that led to the scrum and the match winning penalty.

Against Fiji, he got Visser into space for his try. Made the best tackle I have seen from a Scottish player since Jason White was in his prime, making the hit and driving his opposite number back a good few yards and again made all the tackles he was expected off him.

So he tackles and organises the defence as well as Morrison but he also provides an attacking threat.

IMO he solidified his presence in the Scotland team and repaid the faith AR has shown in him. I felt he had a great tour but people still seem to be comparing him to a prostate examination..... come on guys he did well in the summer and was instrumental in winning our 1st 2 tests.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Jul 2012, 2:13 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Have to pick up the mantle of defending DeLuca again who seems to be in for unfair harsh criticism yet again from certain Scottish posters.

In the summer tour he resolutlly defended his channel and co-ordinated the defensive effort that kepy us afloat during the Ozzie onslaught. Making 6 tackles and missing none. He also made the clean break that got us out of dodge and gained us the Field position thatled to the scrum and the match winning penalty.

Against Fiji, he got Visser into space for his try. Made the best tackle I have seen from a Scottish player since Jason White was in his prime, making the hit and driving his opposite number back a good few yards back and again made all the tackles he was expected off him.

So he tackles and organises the defence as well as Morrison but he also provides an attacking threat.

IMO he solidified his presence in the Scotland team and repaid the faith AR has shown in him. I felt he had a great tour but people still seem to be comparing him to a prostate examination..... come on guys he did well in the summer and was instrumental in winning our 1st 2 tests.

Completely agree. Comparing his selection to undergoing a prostate examination is a tad harsh.....

He should have some tough competition this season to retain that 13 jersey, both at Edinburgh and for Scotland. The return of Ben Cairns should keep him honest at Edinburgh, as will the arrivals of Tonks and Atiga (both of whom can play 13), and a fully fit and firing Joe Ansbro will once again keep him honest in a Scotland jersey, as will Grove and Dunbar. Nice depth, and it means that should NDL go back to his early Scotland days, then there will be no excuse for Mr Robinson to stick with him.

Now the selection of Morrison at 12, that's a full on colonoscopy!

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Jul 2012, 2:27 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Have to pick up the mantle of defending DeLuca again who seems to be in for unfair harsh criticism yet again from certain Scottish posters.

In the summer tour he resolutlly defended his channel and co-ordinated the defensive effort that kepy us afloat during the Ozzie onslaught. Making 6 tackles and missing none. He also made the clean break that got us out of dodge and gained us the Field position thatled to the scrum and the match winning penalty.

Against Fiji, he got Visser into space for his try. Made the best tackle I have seen from a Scottish player since Jason White was in his prime, making the hit and driving his opposite number back a good few yards back and again made all the tackles he was expected off him.

So he tackles and organises the defence as well as Morrison but he also provides an attacking threat.

IMO he solidified his presence in the Scotland team and repaid the faith AR has shown in him. I felt he had a great tour but people still seem to be comparing him to a prostate examination..... come on guys he did well in the summer and was instrumental in winning our 1st 2 tests.

Completely agree. Comparing his selection to undergoing a prostate examination is a tad harsh.....

He should have some tough competition this season to retain that 13 jersey, both at Edinburgh and for Scotland. The return of Ben Cairns should keep him honest at Edinburgh, as will the arrivals of Tonks and Atiga (both of whom can play 13), and a fully fit and firing Joe Ansbro will once again keep him honest in a Scotland jersey, as will Grove and Dunbar. Nice depth, and it means that should NDL go back to his early Scotland days, then there will be no excuse for Mr Robinson to stick with him.

Now the selection of Morrison at 12, that's a full on colonoscopy with a rusty beach umbrella.

Have further detailed.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 16 Jul 2012, 3:18 pm

I agree with most of the other English posters in the main:

1.Corbs
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Deacon
5.Parling
6.Croft
7.Robshaw
8.Morgan
9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.Ashton
12.Barritt
13.Manu
14.Foden
15.Goode

Bench: Marler, Webber, PDJ, Launchbury, Wood, Care, Farrell, Joseph.

Now personally I think Tom Youngs and Freddie Burns would be better calls on the bench but I can't see them progressing enough for Lancaster who likes the solidarity of Farrell and the all round reliability of Webber. Crane or Fearns are possibilities at 8 but Lancaster seems likely to cling onto the more chunky and dynamic Morgan/Waldrom type. I suspect Morgan as Waldrom will be playing second fiddle to Crane by the time of the 6N. Deacon to be brought back as Palmer and Botha aren't up to much and with both Attwood and Garvey currently being ignored England will be short of grunt options in the second row.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 16 Jul 2012, 3:23 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Have to pick up the mantle of defending DeLuca again who seems to be in for unfair harsh criticism yet again from certain Scottish posters.

In the summer tour he resolutlly defended his channel and co-ordinated the defensive effort that kept us afloat during the Ozzie onslaught. Making 6 tackles and missing none. He also made the clean break that got us out of dodge and gained us the Field position that led to the scrum and the match winning penalty.

Against Fiji, he got Visser into space for his try. Made the best tackle I have seen from a Scottish player since Jason White was in his prime, making the hit and driving his opposite number back a good few yards and again made all the tackles he was expected off him.

So he tackles and organises the defence as well as Morrison but he also provides an attacking threat.

IMO he solidified his presence in the Scotland team and repaid the faith AR has shown in him. I felt he had a great tour but people still seem to be comparing him to a prostate examination..... come on guys he did well in the summer and was instrumental in winning our 1st 2 tests.

Qué? I said that he still makes me nervous, and IanBru commented on his likely selection with "you know you don't have a choice, and it's probably a good idea, but you're damned if you're going to look forward to it." - do either of those count as "unfair, harsh criticism"?

by bedfordwelsh Mon 16 Jul 2012, 3:31 pm

I think us Welsh are pretty settled but I would like to see another T/Head developed/given a chance and a No10

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 16 Jul 2012, 3:43 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Have to pick up the mantle of defending DeLuca again who seems to be in for unfair harsh criticism yet again from certain Scottish posters.

In the summer tour he resolutlly defended his channel and co-ordinated the defensive effort that kept us afloat during the Ozzie onslaught. Making 6 tackles and missing none. He also made the clean break that got us out of dodge and gained us the Field position that led to the scrum and the match winning penalty.

Against Fiji, he got Visser into space for his try. Made the best tackle I have seen from a Scottish player since Jason White was in his prime, making the hit and driving his opposite number back a good few yards and again made all the tackles he was expected off him.

So he tackles and organises the defence as well as Morrison but he also provides an attacking threat.

IMO he solidified his presence in the Scotland team and repaid the faith AR has shown in him. I felt he had a great tour but people still seem to be comparing him to a prostate examination..... come on guys he did well in the summer and was instrumental in winning our 1st 2 tests.
Qué? I said that he still makes me nervous, and IanBru commented on his likely selection with "you know you don't have a choice, and it's probably a good idea, but you're damned if you're going to look forward to it." - do either of those count as "unfair, harsh criticism"?

I would say he has done nothing to warrant not looking forward to him playing. I would say looking forward to Either Morrison or Lamont playing at 12 is a much worse prospect.

Having had a very solid defencive performance in the summer tour and having established a credible attacking threat with Scott at 12 we would be looking forward to what this backline can do rather than saying we're not looking forward to it, or stating he still makes you nervous.

The summer tour was a great platform to build on and I'm quite looking forward to the AI's.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 16 Jul 2012, 3:45 pm

So we shouldn't hold those views because you don't agree with them, Radge? Headscratch

I am also looking forward to the AIs

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