Will Wales/Ireland or Scotland ever make a RWC final?

Will Wales/Ireland or Scotland ever make a RWC final?

IMO no.

But this is a discussion board so let’s discuss this intriguing subject.

The reason I said no is that I don't believe these three nations have the mental believe to take on the big boys in a KO competition like the RWC as it is a different type of pressure when compared to a domestic or euro cup.

Simple as that.

Discuss.

Never is a long time, but personally I can't see anybody other than the 'Big Four' (and maybe France) winning the World Cup for the forseeable future.

Wales maybe, they have a crop of very good young players but need to get over the hurdle of beating SH teams home and away.

Scotland, I'll let the Scots answer... but, in contrast to Wales, they seem to do better against the SH than against their 6N rivals and they have a talented bunch of players.

Ireland not for the forseeable future. The IRFU are too focused on the 6N (and the revenue it brings) and the rest of the country are too focused on the HEC and provincial bragging rights. Had serious chances in 2007 and 2011 and blew them. It will take at least 7-8 seasons to build back to that level imo, if we started rebuilding now, so we've missed the 2015 boat.

With your all mighty powers of reading the infinite future, would you be so kind HERSH to supply me with the winning Euromillion numbers this Friday. Thanking you in advance.

i forgot England won it . its hardly mentioned on here

It's not that difficult to make a prediction like that Kia.

History rarely lies nor does the stats.

Hersh,

Although I am a billion per cent sure this is meant to be a wum article its not a bad question and I hope people try treat it that way instead of just bellyaching that it says something mean about Wales, Ireland etc.

I think Rodders sums it up pretty well for me but I would go a step further.

I am worried that in the long term (say another 20 years) that we could be looking at the likes of Argentina and Italy putting serious pressure on us with a bigger population and resources as well as the fact that Argentina will be well used to the Trinations teams.

"History rarely lies nor does the stats."

Do the stats, that is to say?

Anyway, Wales were within a hares breath of doing it the last time.

Ireland, not for the foreseeable future and Scotland same...

Well Scotland were one bad kick from getting to the Final in 1991..... thanks Gav!

Scotland it looks like a tall order at the moment but Never is a pretty strong word.

Duigers wrote:
Anyway, Wales were within a hares breath of doing it the last time.

That's my new favourite phrase!

I think Wales and Ireland has a chance to make a world cup final sometime in the future.

Why?

Well it is really simple.

Look at last year as an example Ireland beats Australia, which pits the "tough nuts" all on one side of the draw, this allows the Six Nations teams the other side to fight things out.

Now Wales has won the Grandslam 3 times in the recent past, so if they can do that with such regularity, then by all means, they only need to win a "mini slam" to get to the final.

So by that token any team that can win the Grandslam can get to the final, obviously with some cards falling in the right place.

After all, SA won the RWC in 2007 without beating Australia or New Zealand.

when I dream at night, Hastings got that kick over!

I predict that that the 2043 World cup final will be between Scotland and Ireland

you heard it here first!

I forgot about SA's run of beating minnow after minnow in 2007.

England
USA
Tonga
Samoa
Fiji
Argentina
England

The Islanders, USA, Argentina and England. Actually you know what if Ireland had that run of games we would have won the thing too

Yep, those minnows did us some big favours in 2007.

Argentina took out France, France took out NZ, England took out OZ and France, and we just had to take out Arg and EnG

Come to think of it, SA should show some gratitude towards England and give them a win at some stage...



Meh...

so the 2007 RWC was a non event!

Yes, they should have cancelled it after the Quarters.

If France can make a final twice, then I see no reason why any of the Celtic nations cant.

Hersh
It wasnt South Africas fault that they were the best team, by miles, in the 2007 final.

Wales were ONLY a "hare's breath" of doing it last time because a team called Ireland went and upset the predictions and left the competition truly open.

The operative word is 'Upset'. Upsets can happen anytime, anywhere... and wasn't the very final another example of it, when the very best in the competition were almost derailed by a team that had up until then been perhaps one of the worst.

Let's not predict the future too rigidly.

True secretfly anything indeed can happen but I suppose what you can do is analyse each teams resources and current standing to predict where they may be come the next few World cup cycles.

There is always upsets, maybe more than ever now but there is still a pattern in the teams that do well and get to the latter stages.

They tend to be experienced sides, with strong leaders, that have been built over a sustained period of time. Most have had strong packs, excellent defences and good goal kickers as well as the capacity to rotate in the earlier stages. A good mix of youth and experience.

You can certainly look around most of the teams now and make a calculated guess as to which teams are likely to have these attributes in 2015 and possibly even 2019 too.

biltongbek wrote:Come to think of it, SA should show some gratitude towards England and give them a win at some stage...



Meh...

Nah. Instead of throwing England a win, just send a few players up north to suit up in white...........

If rugby stays on the same course, i.e. The top 10 pretty much stays the same, i think they could.

However if countries like the Russia, USA, Canada, Argentina etc... keep improving and have pro structures and leagues. Countries like Wales, Ireland and Scotland could be in danger of falling into obscurity. But that's highly unlikely so...

doctor_grey wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Come to think of it, SA should show some gratitude towards England and give them a win at some stage...



Meh...

Nah. Instead of throwing England a win, just send a few players up north to suit up in white...........

Well we've been doing that for over a decade now, by last count it was 10 guys in the last 12 years, so we must have had some credit.

Guess we're in the clear at the moment.

The No's have it so far

HERSH wrote:The No's have it so far

Only by a rabbit's width.

No. They simply do not have the depth. injuries are inevitable and they cannot cover them. Plus they will never believe they are good enough.

SecretFly wrote:

HERSH wrote:The No's have it so far

Only by a rabbit's width.

Ah, it's good to see people using medieval measurements. A rabbit's width is approximately the same as a badger's hand.

sugarNspikes wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

HERSH wrote:The No's have it so far

Only by a rabbit's width.

Ah, it's good to see people using medieval measurements. A rabbit's width is approximately the same as a badger's hand.

Or a gnat's nadger...

Or as quick as a porcupine's hiccup?

IMHO

England Wales and Scotland are all going to be generic NH rugby teams soon enough. The UKCC has generalised rugby coaching so that every single coach in the UK follows the same patterns, runs the same drills, and basically coach by numbers.

Whatever one is capable of all are capable of, as the players all hold the same genetic make up, all are coached exactly the same, and all follow similar systems from age grade to professional rugby!

When reached international rugby the only difference will be the inspiration of the coaching set up and willingness to take risks, of which there is too much pressure to make mistakes and very few will.

So the answer IMO is right now no, the UK national teams will not make any more WC finals without bold change!

is there a time scale on this or is it until the end of time.

but if its till the end of time there is a time scale.....Right????

I'm so confused

Wales will make the 2015 RWC final because it is part of their strategic plan.

With their introduction to TRC, Argentina could even leapfrog said teams on the way to a WC final. They'll be used to facing harder opposition by that stage so they'll be a lot more confident about knocking off some NH sides on the way there...

If England managed it with that team in 07, of course the others can. Scotland, Ireland & Wales are currently on par, if not better than England were during that tournament. Pointless article, if indeed it is serious.

HERSH wrote:It's not that difficult to make a prediction like that Kia.

History rarely lies nor does the stats.

But we're talking about the future!

PS Laurie, France have made the final 3 times.

Wales and Ireland will do it eventually - Ever is a long time.

Scotland may not as they struggle to grow the game and keep it on a stable footing.

In the short term future, Wales could do it. In the middle term future, Ireland could do it. In the long term future, Scotland could do it.

A classic example of a WUM post by an England fan.

The question most English fans should be concerned about is that with the current crop of players England have no chance of making the RWC final in 2015 and meeting their 'strategic objectives'

as long as any finish second in their respected groups... it will be very difficult to get to a final.

However if they do finish top of their groups then look at SA in 07.. they faced Fiji & Argentina in the KO stages to reach the final so its possible.

In fact they didn't face any of the other top 5 ranked sides (ranked at beginning of the tournament) to and inc. the final. Sides will get fortuitous breaks now and again.

The one thing I would say about the celtic nations and in fact all teams in Europe.... they do go through good periods and bad periods... no one, even the French aren't consistently a world class side.

The problem they face however is that NZ & SA nearly always are. They are conveyor belts for talent and just keep on producing great players. Whenthe NH face those obstacles its near impossible to compete and come out victorious.... and in future the same rules will apply... they are always good enough, perhaps by a single point, perhaps by 50... but they always find a way and I expect that run to continue.

Apart from the fact this is a Wum to stir things up so have`nt bothered to vote in the poll.The thread states Scotland,Ireland,Wales will never make a final NOT
that they will win a RWC.Then people say stats don`t lie true but NEVER is a long time.Stats say to date England,France,New Zealand,Australia[3]and South Africa[2] have made RWC finals.That the 3 SH sides have won 2 each,England one,and France none.In 2007 SA won by not meeting any of the major sides[England 2007 were poor coming into RWC and surprising finalists].IF Nz,Australia or Wales or Ireland all would have fancied a final place or even a win.THAT does`nt devalue the Boks win you can only beat the teams you meet.
In 2011 one surprise result meant all the NH sides were on one side of the draw.
Any of those COULD have reached the final it was just like a 6Ns ,it is also likely that a similar situation will re-occur in future.So it is VERY likely that at some point in time one of the 3 WILL make a Final.

sugarNspikes wrote:

Duigers wrote:
Anyway, Wales were within a hares breath of doing it the last time.

That's my new favourite phrase!

+1

mowgli wrote:A classic example of a WUM post by an England fan.

The question most English fans should be concerned about is that with the current crop of players England have no chance of making the RWC final in 2015 and meeting their 'strategic objectives'

+ 1, But sometimes the monkeys need to be fed

Why is this a wum post?

How many RWC finals have these teams been in?

HERSH wrote:Why is this a wum post?

How many RWC finals have these teams been in?

with all due respect how many world cup finals have there been.

Also in soccer spain reached their first final 2 years ago. if some moron claim 60 years ago that they wouldnt win a world cup what would you say about him.

*please note that i am not calling anyone in particular a moron just saying if some made a stupid claim about spain 60 years ago saying they would never win a world cup they would indeed be a moron.

History can change HERSH. NZ had never beaten Australia in a knockout match before the semi last year. History didn't repeat itself there. Going on 7 RWCs doesn't stack up much when you're considering all the potential RWCs to be played in the future.

Wales has made two semis and Scotland one. Ireland are the underachievers when it comes to the RWC out of your list. England and France have made 3 finals and only have one RWC to show for it out of 6 appearances. Do you think that statistic will remain the same? Likewise SA has won a World Cup final in both final appearances they have made. Do you think this 100 per cent final success rate will stand the test of time?

caoimhincentre wrote:

HERSH wrote:Why is this a wum post?

How many RWC finals have these teams been in?

with all due respect how many world cup finals have there been.

Also in soccer spain reached their first final 2 years ago. if some moron claim 60 years ago that they wouldnt win a world cup what would you say about him.

*please note that i am not calling anyone in particular a moron just saying if some made a stupid claim about spain 60 years ago saying they would never win a world cup they would indeed be a moron.

Well, that puts certain morons back in the moron box...

Can we lay of the moron insinuations please guys, not long before someone directs it at someone on particular.

biltongbek wrote:Can we lay of the moron insinuations please guys, not long before someone directs it at someone on particular.

Sorry.

But football in Spain is popular and always has been, so I agree, to say Spain would never win the World Cup is a silly statement.

The game in Scotland and Wales is dying, Ireland seems to be more interested in HC's, so I can honestly say that I can't see them winning or reaching a RWC Final, EVER!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:History can change

It can't unless you have a time machine (or are some kind of revisionist historian!).

You can affect the future though.

Unless you believe in fate.

Everything that is going to happen is already decided.

Might as well have a pint