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Quiz Question

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 1:57 pm

Here is a little rules quiz; I want to know what you would do in the following situations.

Before I set the question a little back story must be told. One day a beloved kitty went for a stroll in the setting summer sun along the fairways of a local course. This puss was enjoying the views and vaguely looking out for some other poor animal to chase, but mostly just lapping up the atmosphere of the wonderful evening. You would not find a more contended feline in all the land.

Out of nowhere the poor critters brains were blown from inside its skull, the beast departed this world before its body hit the deck and long before the sound of the shot echoed around the empty course. The only other sole in the vicinity of this most heartless of crimes was a man dressed in white trainers and white shell suite running into the forest. As the man ran away, a business card with the inscription “Super Realists fat camp” fluttered from his pocket. It seems this was in no way the perfect crime and that the culprit – clearly not as clever as he thought he was - would be easily caught…….

Situation 1

You are the first to play the course the next day and after a fine drive into the middle of the fairway you notice that your ball has come very close to an unidentified object. The closer you get you realise your follow through will hit the object. On arrival you are met with the horrible sight of your ball next to a dead cat.

What do you do?


Situation 2

Super realist returned later in the dead of night –totally racked with guilt - and placed the cats body in the bunker, wrongly assuming sand (litter trays) were a holy site for cats. In his muddled mind he thought this would be a worthy resting place for his victim.

Your drive is tweaked a little left and ends up in this bunker, where your next shot will again be interfered with by the slain cat.

What do you do?
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Post by lorus59 Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:08 pm

I don't think situation 2 is possible. That would be saying that Super has a conscience.

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Post by dynamark Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:11 pm

Next time Tee off a bit later?

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:13 pm

Despite the preamble this is an interesting rules issue. I would really like to hear what people would do.
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Post by theshanker Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:32 pm

Situation 1
Take a drop (under penalty of course)

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Post by Fader Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:34 pm

Move the dead cat and play on! If it was SR I'd say probably killed the cat because it resembled shane lowry

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:40 pm

fader

In what situation would you move the cat?
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Post by SmithersJones Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:46 pm

Is shooting a cat a crime? If it is, it shouldn't be.

Move it in the fairway but not in the bunker, would be my guess.
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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:47 pm

Applicable to both situations: never, ever play on a course that Mac frequents.

Number 1: move dead cat, loose impediment

Number 2: play it as it lies or take penalty drop unless local rules allow dead cats to be removed

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Post by theshanker Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:55 pm

Simular to 1. several years ago in a team comp one of our pairings was disqualified for taking a free drop when their ball came to rest in what was left of a dead seagull.

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Post by Fader Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:56 pm

Mac:

1. Rule 23 - Loose impediment, even the R&A websote shows an image of a dead rat as such

2. Play as it lies, clean club after and ball once marked on green, one less cat in the world wouldn't cause me issue to take an unplayable

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Post by incontinentia Wed 18 Jul 2012, 2:59 pm

In situation 1 I'm pretty sure the dead cat would be a moveable obstruction, Not sure if you would be permitted to clean any brain matter off your ball though.

In situation 2 you would have to play it as it lies or take a penalty drop, unless there's a provision in the local rules whereby animal carcasses may be moved in a bunker.
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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:00 pm

i dont think it matters why the cat was there - just move the cat job done- its a movable object

we can move stones from bunkers, so we much be able to move dead animals as well

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Post by oldparwin Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:09 pm

Mac
I think you have to much time on your hands, and with that type of brain I think you might need a cat-scan!!! Yahoo


Last edited by oldparwin on Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:12 pm

Mysti - loose impediments that are natural: divots, acorns, pine needles etc cannot be moved in a bunker. Sweet wrappers, cans and bottles etc. can be moved. 2 shot penalty applies.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:13 pm

but we can move stones cant we ?

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:14 pm

A stone is surely a natural impediment.

btw not saying that a cat is one thing or the other- but i would move the thing for sure.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:18 pm

Actually i just read up for it- the stone thing is a local rule- that i take is applied almost everywhere

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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:26 pm

Sometimes Mysti, you should check the card to make sure. I have heard of penalties being called including loss of hole for stones being moved where people have made the assumption that they could move them based on the practice at their own club

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 5:27 pm

I should your right- i really didnt know!!

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 7:37 pm

ok, i did not realize that so many people knew a dead animal was a loose impediment. You would think some other rule covered the situation where your ball was impeded by a carcass so that you could get a free drop. But no, you actually have to touch a dead animal or just hit it during the swing.
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Post by Slowride Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:00 pm

isn't there a rule about getting a free drop from hazardous materials?

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:03 pm

slowride

Not sure, maybe this situation is not as straight forward as it appeared so far? Does anyone know anything about the hazardous material rule?
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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:29 pm

I think it's more for hazardous wildlife such as snakes, alligators, hornet's nest, fire ants - the types you are not likely to find in the UK.

Or you should hire Brian Gay's caddy to scare said animals away. If you didn't know he took on an alligator with a bunker rake when Brian Gay's ball ended up very close to an alligator at Hilton Head this year.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:46 pm

ok lads...

questions.

would you swing through the cat in the sand and play the best shot possible?

would you move the cat and expect your marker to not apply a penalty?

would you take a drop or play out sideways to not touch the cat?

would you apply a penalty to your partner if he/she was in the situation and if he moved the cat?

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Post by Fader Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:50 pm

Swing through, its already been sent to kitty heaven by Super or who killed said beast, so dispersing its carcass further down the fairway won't matter

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:54 pm

Imagine all the blood and guts after playing an aggresive splash shot

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:14 pm

If you hit the cat during the back swing while in a bunker it would be a penalty stroke i think. Was it not striking a loose impediment on the way back when inside a hazard that caught brian davis out at harbour town?
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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:21 pm

so the cat becomes part of the hazard and basically the same as touching the sand on the way back!!

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:24 pm

No, you just cant move a loose impediment in a bunker unless in the process of striking the ball. The back swing does not count as part of the strike.
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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:26 pm

yep so why say no?

you cant ground your club in the sand- you cant touch the sand,you cant touch the sand on the backswing, you cant touch the loose impediment either.. thats the point

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:32 pm

Mysti

Testing the sand and touching a loose impediment are technically not the same infringement.
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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:34 pm

i didnt say tetsing the sand did i- I said hitting the sand on the back swing- if you were to touch the sand or touch the loose impedement surely that would also be a penalty and theoritcally the same infringment

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:36 pm

anyway this is all completly irrelevant- its just the way i applied the logic of the ruling

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Post by McLaren Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:38 pm

Hell knows, either way it is a penalty.


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Post by incontinentia Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:14 am

So was super realist caught or not?!

I have a wacky rules question that I've been wondering about for a while. In some circumstances the player is entitled to take a drop in line with the flag and go back as far as they want. In theory, could that player state that their line backwards extends around the planet and thus take the drop at the flagstick?
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Post by BlueCoverman Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:43 am

Bet he would still finish his round before Ben Crane...

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 19 Jul 2012, 7:07 am

Incontentia- you cant drop backwards in line beyond an ob

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Post by super_realist Thu 19 Jul 2012, 7:12 am

I've got more of an aversion to seagulls than cats after one defecated in my eye at secondary school.

I'm actually considering the purchase of a rifle for the purpose of ridding my area of th vermin. every morning my car is covered in scheisse and the noisy buggers wake me up at 5am.


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Post by mystiroakey Thu 19 Jul 2012, 7:36 am

SR i am doing the same but to cull the parrots- all the local birds are hiding out in one part of my golf course. I know a couple of people that shoot squirels as well. they love it. Lucky i dont have any off them horrid gulls near me

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Post by super_realist Thu 19 Jul 2012, 7:56 am

Apparently squirrel fajitas are quite good.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 19 Jul 2012, 8:57 am

Dont sound to great but i suppose if the meat was seasoned well enough its gonna taste as good as a kebab

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Post by McLaren Thu 19 Jul 2012, 9:39 am

Incon, you cant go closer to the hole so at best you could drop it the same distance away on the other side of the green. I think.


Super

Why not buy a cat to scare away the gulls?
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Post by super_realist Thu 19 Jul 2012, 5:40 pm

Mac, I'd need a wolf as the seagulls are the size of a cat up here. Don't think the neighbours would appreciate a wolf next door.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 19 Jul 2012, 5:41 pm

nah you dont need a wolf pal- You need a honey badger

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Post by Roller_Coaster Fri 20 Jul 2012, 12:45 pm

Don't get a cat, apparently there's too much potential for a rules quandary.

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