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*Team announced* Pietersen not in the T20 Squad

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Post by KP_fan Tue 21 Aug 2012, 7:59 am

Update* here is the team
World Twenty20 squad Stuart Broad, Jonny Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Jos Buttler, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Alex Hales, Craig Kieswetter, Michael Lumb, Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Graeme Swann, Luke Wright



Sources have leaked reliably to CI that KP will not be in the T20 squad for Lanka


Pietersen set to miss World Twenty20 squad

Andrew McGlashan

August 20, 2012

Teams: England



Less than 24 hours after seeing their No. 1 Test ranking slip away England will name their squads for the World Twenty20 and the one-day series against South Africa. Kevin Pietersen, the focus of so much attention over the last few weeks, is not expected to be among the names chosen.
There remains a huge amount of work to do between Pietersen and the ECB to create a path for his return to international cricket after his omission from the final Test against South Africa. There remains uncertainty over when the two sides will meet and while Pietersen's relationship with Andrew Strauss has the been the focus of the attention, the teams in the next few weeks will be led by England's other captains, Alastair Cook and Stuart Broad.

When the selectors sat down to pick the World Twenty20 squad two weeks ago Pietersen was officially retired from limited-overs international cricket, only to announce, via YouTube, that he was now available for all formats the day before he was dropped from the Test side.

England had started the process of moving on from Pietersen with Ian Bell slotting in at the top of the 50-over side and Alex Hales making 99 against West Indies at Trent Bridge in the T20I. The Twenty20 side would clearly be stronger with Pietersen included - his Man-of-the-Tournament display in the Caribbean was stunning - but the selectors would have been loath to ditch Hales.

England's batting, though, faces a mighty challenge in Sri Lanka in conditions that will test their techniques against spin, which remains the weaker suit. The rest of the batting order will have to be at the peak of their powers to compensate for the loss of Pietersen. Eoin Morgan becomes a key figure, a player with a similar X-factor quality to Pietersen who can turn a game in an instant.

The other issue the selectors have to decide on is Ravi Bopara, who has just returned to action following his personal problems, having earlier in the season cemented his one-day place with a strong series against Australia. He has a month to get back into cricket before the tournament - there may be consideration to leaving him out of the one-day series against South Africa - but England do not want to be left with any last-minute dramas to solve if his issues reoccur. The ECB is likely to have checked with the ICC if they would be allowed a replacement.

Jonny Bairstow and Jos Buttler are likely to make up the middle-order batting options while there could be a vacancy for a player able to fill a variety of roles if injury or illness occurred. As a batsman Bell fills the remit, but someone like Luke Wright would give full all-round options and the experience of having been part of the 2010 success. In that regard, do not discount Michael Lumb from discussions after his move to Nottinghamshire sparked his career, which had slumped following his brief England spell.

The bowling attack poses fewer issues with most names nailed on although James Anderson faces a nervous wait having not been regular in Twenty20 cricket. Chris Woakes, the Warwickshire allrounder, has pushed his claims recently while Surrey's Stuart Meaker could be an outside chance. Back-up, or support, for Graeme Swann will be required even though Samit Patel will be the second spinner. In a tournament environment experience is important so that could earn James Tredwell the nod ahead of Danny Briggs.


Last edited by KP_fan on Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by KP_fan Tue 21 Aug 2012, 8:01 am

I am surprised they are not even consdiering Prior
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 21 Aug 2012, 8:13 am

Wheres the leak?
"Not expected" is hardly news is it

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug 2012, 8:43 am

Such a shame. Strauss isn't in the T20 reckoning, so I think the pompous selectors should perhaps have swallowed their pride and picked him, for the good of the nation. Without KP England have next to no chance of retaining their title (it was going to be a tough ask anyway).

More importantly, it is fans of the game worldwide that are losing out. The tournament is effectively being deprived of one of if not its premier player.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 21 Aug 2012, 9:00 am

As I've said elsewhere, it would be totally wrong for the ECB to pick KP for one-day squads right now. He has forced them to pick replacements for him, then slagged off the England management and disrupted team unity. To re-pick him in one-dayers now because of his apparent change of heart would be over-generous, unnecessary, unfair on those that replaced him well and would send out completely the wrong messages.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 21 Aug 2012, 9:01 am

he will go to Lanka for the world cup...

Kevin Pietersen may head for Sri Lanka for England's defence of the world Twenty20 title next month even if he is omitted, as expected, from the squad that will be announced on Tuesday.

Pietersen is understood to have been offered the opportunity to make his debut in the media during the tournament several weeks ago, when he was not available for selection as a result of his retirement from one-day international cricket in May.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:13 am

World Twenty20 squad Stuart Broad, Jonny Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Jos Buttler, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Alex Hales, Craig Kieswetter, Michael Lumb, Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Graeme Swann, Luke Wright

---------------------------------------

Luke Wright is a good man to have for T20 side...can't undertsand why Prior is not considered
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Post by VTR Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:15 am

That's not a team, its a squad

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Post by KP_fan Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:19 am

Looks lean on batting.......innings building and holding one end at a SR of about 100% is a skill essential and seeminlg missing in this side
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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:20 am

Ah the title at least has changed. It was a bit strange to qualify a squad announcement as a leak.

Nobody is surprised, there was no way KP was ever going to make this squad, and he only has himself and his actions to blame. Whatever the faults of the ECB (and there are a few, as I say they should have taken his concerns over scheduling more seriously) there is no excuse for acting as KP has done. As Shelsey said those who have replaced KP have done very well (in fact Bell and Hales have arguably made themselves undroppable).

Can we move on now please?

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:35 am

Hales scored one 99 Mike, yes, but do you really think he is undroppable? To me he always looks very awkward and likely to get out at any moment. He just doesn't look a natural, if that makes sense (he's obviously a good cricketer).

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:41 am

Why do people keep thinking the problem is only between KP and Strauss? Even before the texts it was well reported that he had issues with Swann and Broad too .....I would be very surprised if Flower wanted him in the squad as well.

As for Prior ...his limited over record is abysmal. It does seem odd when hes just about good enough to justify selection for the test squad as a pure batsman and is as good a keeper now as anyone else around. You would think his batting style suited limited overs more than tests but there you go.
Which leads on to Luke Wright ....who has arguably an even worse record in international limited over cricket. As suggested in the article his selection would be based on wanting someone in the squad who can "fill a gap" should there be injuries or the requirement for a reshuffle.

On the positive side both Bairstow and Hales have solid international performances under their belts. Finn looks like a genuine force in all formats and having a fast stroke bowler in T20 is very useful.
of course the squad looks light without KP, but most people wrote them off prior to the last world cup. England have been the dominant force in international T20 for some time now, theres no reason they cant continue that.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:42 am

Fists of Fury wrote: but do you really think he is undroppable?

At this point and without KP? Yes


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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:44 am

Fists of Fury wrote:Hales scored one 99 Mike, yes, but do you really think he is undroppable? To me he always looks very awkward and likely to get out at any moment. He just doesn't look a natural, if that makes sense (he's obviously a good cricketer).

I think his 99 (which IIRC was the last T20 he played) has made him undroppable for now, yes. You can't really drop someone who's just scored 99 IMO. On the rest I agree with you, I'm not sure how his predominant leg-side style will work in the subcontinent (where straight through the line is usually the best option).


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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:48 am

I have made the point on here previously that Prior scores a lot of his runs between point and third-man, and these shots which give him boundaries in tests will bring him only singles in ODIs/T20s. I suggest he scores a lot of his runs in boundaries (he isn't a nudge-nurdler player). We've seen even in his recent innings against SA that when point/third-man are cut off, he struggles to hit the big shots straight. So realistically the only place he could bat in ODIs is as an opener, to take advantage of the PP. When England first tried him there he was fairly hopeless, perhaps he needs another chance but I suspect he doesn't play the swinging ball well enough TBH.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:58 am

Oh I think he should play, Mike, I just don't think he is undroppable in a wider sense. If you meant in terms of purely the next match then I agree.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 21 Aug 2012, 11:12 am

Mike Selig wrote:I have made the point on here previously that Prior scores a lot of his runs between point and third-man, and these shots which give him boundaries in tests will bring him only singles in ODIs/T20s. I suggest he scores a lot of his runs in boundaries (he isn't a nudge-nurdler player). We've seen even in his recent innings against SA that when point/third-man are cut off, he struggles to hit the big shots straight. So realistically the only place he could bat in ODIs is as an opener, to take advantage of the PP. When England first tried him there he was fairly hopeless, perhaps he needs another chance but I suspect he doesn't play the swinging ball well enough TBH.

Mike taking this way off on a tangent ...do you have any thoughts on why Prior hardly ever gets out lbw? (5 times in 87 test innings and only once that wasnt to a right arm spinner, ODIs 6 times from 62 innings, T20 0 from 8)

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue 21 Aug 2012, 11:26 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Mike Selig wrote:I have made the point on here previously that Prior scores a lot of his runs between point and third-man, and these shots which give him boundaries in tests will bring him only singles in ODIs/T20s. I suggest he scores a lot of his runs in boundaries (he isn't a nudge-nurdler player). We've seen even in his recent innings against SA that when point/third-man are cut off, he struggles to hit the big shots straight. So realistically the only place he could bat in ODIs is as an opener, to take advantage of the PP. When England first tried him there he was fairly hopeless, perhaps he needs another chance but I suspect he doesn't play the swinging ball well enough TBH.

Mike taking this way off on a tangent ...do you have any thoughts on why Prior hardly ever gets out lbw? (5 times in 87 test innings and only once that wasnt to a right arm spinner, ODIs 6 times from 62 innings, T20 0 from 8)

I'm not Mike, but I'd guess it's because he likes staying leg-side of the ball (which suits his strength through the covers), hence doesn't get his pad in the way (balls which hit his pad tend to be missing leg stump or just glance back onto his stumps). I would also guess he has been bowled far more often.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 21 Aug 2012, 11:27 am

I think it's because his natural way is to stay inside the line of the ball. I've very rarely seen Prior play around his front pad, he hits balls on middle-and-leg towards mid-on rather than mid-wicket (or squarer).

Also he often gets out (because of the way the game is going) attempting a big hit, which except against the spinners won't result in an LBW.

I would suspect Gilchrist wasn't out LBW all that often either (although more so than Prior given he was left-handed so the usualy swing to him was inswing) - yep 12 in 117 but 5 in 64 against pace bowlers. Similar set-up, both like to give themselves a bit of room.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 21 Aug 2012, 11:58 am

Interesting. that ties in with what the TMS chaps were talking about regarding spinners and lbws in the DRS era. After a steep climb in the number given ( and a resurgence in spinners as a force) it was agrued that over the last year the numbers have dropped back again ( as has Swanns effectiveness) dramatically as players look to get in positions where they cannot be lbw.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 21 Aug 2012, 1:03 pm

Well Prior is a clever batsman who adapts....if the point / thirdman is vacat he uses it.....
and uses the reverse / switch hit when he sees vacancies

and if there is a diffrent type of field setting in T20s.....he will adapat.

he should bat at No.4 and use his experience / temperament to guide a chase.

BIG BIG opportunity missed by Eng in having a level head....whihc is as essential even in t20 as are bbig hitters
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Post by jimbohammers Tue 21 Aug 2012, 2:43 pm

Stuart Broad, Jonny Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Jos Buttler, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Alex Hales, Craig Kieswetter, Michael Lumb, Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Graeme Swann, Luke Wright


Hales
Kieswetter
Morgan
Bairstow
Buttler
Patel
Bopara
Broad
Swann
Briggs
Finn

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 21 Aug 2012, 2:50 pm

I thought they mightve given Bell a spot, only other one is Woakes but hes very similar to other players in the squad. Briggs ahead of Tredwell is perhaps a slight surprise, given england desperation to pointlessly pick him as back up at every opportunity.

Jimbo id expect the team to have Bresnan in ahead of Briggs

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Post by skyeman Tue 21 Aug 2012, 6:08 pm

England have named a 14-player squad for the ICC Women's World Twenty20 in September and October.

Maybe he could ask them for a spot Wink

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Post by chrisss Tue 21 Aug 2012, 9:23 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Stuart Broad, Jonny Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Jos Buttler, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Alex Hales, Craig Kieswetter, Michael Lumb, Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Graeme Swann, Luke Wright


Hales
Kieswetter
Morgan
Bairstow
Buttler
Patel
Bopara
Broad
Swann
Briggs
Finn

I like that team, but you can't drop Bopara down to 7 after he scored a 50 in the last t20 batting at 3.

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Tue 21 Aug 2012, 10:56 pm

Strauss is tired and needs rest says Flower. Broad is rested for the 5 x ODIs. KP must play in every game. Or else.....

No wonder KP lost the plot.

I know, we are all bored with this......sorry.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 22 Aug 2012, 12:03 am

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:Strauss is tired and needs rest says Flower. Broad is rested for the 5 x ODIs. KP must play in every game. Or else.....

No wonder KP lost the plot.

I know, we are all bored with this......sorry.

Thats not the case. They said he has to make himself available for every game, and that the rests and rotations are done to suit the team not the IPL/BBL/Custard Cup. Dont forget he previously got a rollicking for whinging when he was rested.

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Wed 22 Aug 2012, 9:09 am

But don't you think some 'off the record' discussions could have taken place, about mutually agreeing some games /series where he would have been rested? I suspect had it been Cook, they would have bent over backwards....

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 22 Aug 2012, 9:57 am

They were, the discussions/arguments had been ongoing for years. The big event of 2013 is the Champions Trpphy, which starts two weeks after the IPL finishes. Do you imagine that England would:
a) want to give their players time off to play IPL
or
b) Want their team actually playing the warm up fixtures

The row that kicked this latest round off was his availability for the home ODI series against New Zealand that overlap the IPL and forms the warm up for the CT. He also didnt want to go on the winter tour to India for a 5 match ODi series, which whilst being understandable seems a bit cheeky when his reasoning was he would be away from home a long time if he played the IPL.
Thats very different to Cook/Broad who are being given time off due to fatigue from a series that noone cares about and who arent in need of break because they are playing non England matches.

Now it could still be argued that England have dropped a ball on this one all the same, but I dont see any evidence hes been treated differently or that the coach and captain in some way have it in for him. These problems have been problems for a long time and hes been disciplined on multiple occasions.
Its absurd to suggest that discussions havent been held, although not unreasonable to suggest the ECB and KP have both been somewhat inflexible.

The real issue is with the schedules. Something has to give, the ECB are desperately trying to avoid an IPL window (understandable in some ways as it would be cedeing primacy to a domestic privately funded competition over international cricket and over similar competitions held elsewhere) ...in doing so theyve managed to send their star player off in a huff because hes a stroppy ego maniac who wouldnt say no if someone offered him a million quid for a few days work.

Lets be honest here, there wasnt a right answer, and everyones worked tirelessly to come up with the wrong one.

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Post by alfie Wed 22 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm

Well no surprise KP wasn't in the t20 team - was just too early and no chance to clear the air ... a pity in several ways but couldn't be helped.

Actually think there are two distinct issues here : one being KP's wish for special arrangements on availability ; and the other the apparent personality clashes within the dressing room.

Now I wasn't a fly on the wall in either situation , so can only speculate , but it seems to me that KP is entitled to some sympathy in the first matter. He is really the only England player currently affected by the clash of IPL and national commitments , and I don't blame him asking for consideration , though it is also hard to see how that situation could be resolved without detriment to one of his employers...I also suspect his negotiating style may have been a little ...counter productive ?

The second issue is the main problem now though , and I imagine it is something that has been building for some time. Experience of many dressing rooms over the years tells me that personality clashes between team mates tend to be kept fairly low key while the team is having a strong run of success , but can quickly get blown up when a string of defeats sets everyone looking to find reasons for the reverses they are suffering. Words that were held in - or just muttered over a beer with minimal animosity - start getting flung about and things can go from bad to worse in a very short time.
Of course at a club level these things tend to be resolved , usually by the voluntary departure of the minority party - who wants to play with people you no longer share respect and regard ? , but are less easily settled in the international area.
It sounds as if KP is at odds with several members of the team , and it doesn't really matter much who is at fault (there is often some blame on both sides !) , the matter either needs to be settled by some frank discussions between all parties or else someone has to go...and obviously one man on his own is always going to be the loser in that choice.

Still hope a bit of common sense all round can see a reconciliation , but I reckon the first thing needed is a bit of time apart to let everyone cool off and remember where their mutual interests lie. An ODI series and a T20 Cup may serve very well in that regard Smile

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 22 Aug 2012, 2:31 pm

alfie wrote:He is really the only England player currently affected by the clash of IPL and national commitments ,

You think the likes of Broad and Morgan wouldnt get offers if they made themselves available then? From memory Bopara pulled himself from this years to chase his England test spot. Yes KP is the one who could command the highest fee but its patently false to suggest hes the only one affected by the overlap through anything other than his own choice. Chucking interest in the BBL into the mix as well doesnt exactly help his cause.

I do have some sympathy for KP but lets not misrepresent facts

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Post by Mike Selig Wed 22 Aug 2012, 2:58 pm

Morgan has participated in at least 3 seasons of IPL that I can remember (including last season, where of course he didn't play a single match).

For some strange reason none of the guys doing the bidding seem to like Swann, but himself, Anderson and Prior (?) have I think put themselves up for auction in the past.

I thought Billy got this one pretty much spot on on the other thread. I really do think it's time to put this one to bed though.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 22 Aug 2012, 3:30 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Morgan has participated in at least 3 seasons of IPL that I can remember (including last season, where of course he didn't play a single match).

For some strange reason none of the guys doing the bidding seem to like Swann, but himself, Anderson and Prior (?) have I think put themselves up for auction in the past.

I thought Billy got this one pretty much spot on on the other thread. I really do think it's time to put this one to bed though.

In fact this years auction included plenty of English (not necessarily England) players, in addition to KP, Morgan (sold but benched) and Broad (sold but injured):

Graeme Swann, Alastair Cook, James Anderson, Owais Shah, Matt Prior, Chris Tremlett, Luke Wright, Rikki Clarke, Jade Dernbach, Ravi Bopara, Simon Jones, Tom Maynard (RIP), Jason Roy and Mal Loye

The reason for them not being sold has been threefold:

1. The base prices don't take availability into account. Therefore, Swann (available for half the tournament) is placed in the same category as Brendon McCullum (available for the whole tournament).

2. The very fact that some English players aren't available for half the tournament.

3. Without any English coaches/ captains domestic players from other countries tend to be picked up more often.

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Post by alfie Thu 23 Aug 2012, 10:09 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
alfie wrote:He is really the only England player currently affected by the clash of IPL and national commitments ,

You think the likes of Broad and Morgan wouldnt get offers if they made themselves available then? From memory Bopara pulled himself from this years to chase his England test spot. Yes KP is the one who could command the highest fee but its patently false to suggest hes the only one affected by the overlap through anything other than his own choice. Chucking interest in the BBL into the mix as well doesnt exactly help his cause.

I do have some sympathy for KP but lets not misrepresent facts

Oh please , Peter : "misrepresent the facts" ? Cut me a little slack here - I will admit to oversimplification ...

I am of course well aware of Morgan's involvement with the IPL - and of the other England players who have had/might have had/would like to have similar involvement - but KP was at the critical time the only England player in the national team in all three forms of the game who was also looking to play IPL , so I saw no need to over complicate my post by drawing in other players , only to rule them out in detail , if you see what I mean...

I also fully accept that KP was only in that unique position through his own choice , which is one reason why - as I thought I had made clear - I hold only qualified sympathy for him. The only relevance of other players to this matter , in my opinion , is that creating special arrangements for KP might create an unwanted precedent for the future , which is another reason why I quite understand a compromise was difficult to reach.

Apart from the above , my post was only concerned in passing with the issue of IPL , being more about the matter of dressing room harmony , which I consider to be rather more important. Again , I thought I had made that clear.

Perhaps I am being over sensitive here , but I would not like to be mistaken for a Professional Pietersen Apologist : I do want him back , but only if this can be done without compromising the effective management of England's international cricket or causing damaging divisions to persist within the England dressing room.

I hope that is plain and detailed enough for everyone Smile

alfie

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Join date : 2011-05-31
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*Team announced* Pietersen not in the T20 Squad Empty Re: *Team announced* Pietersen not in the T20 Squad

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