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RGC 1404 - the (re)start of something big?

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Post by Casartelli Fri 31 Aug 2012, 8:40 am

Away at Gilfach tomorrow for their first ever competitive game - anyone going along?

Like the Millennium double-header, it's a WRU 5-years-in-the-planning project, but will it be a success?

Will they become our 5th 'region', or will the Valleys beat them to it? Could we end up with 6???

Almost quite exciting.

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Post by Guest Fri 31 Aug 2012, 8:41 am

I'm looking forward to seeing how they go. Moony on twitter is getting very excited about it all, it really could be the start of something special up North. Fingers crossed for them anyway Smile

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Post by Casartelli Fri 31 Aug 2012, 9:01 am

Rupert in his snappily titled new role as "WRU General Manager of the North Wales Development Region" should give them some media profile, and they have Horsman as coach.

Hopefully they have a long term future.

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Post by Kingshu Fri 31 Aug 2012, 11:36 am

Could they Expand to be a North/Valleys team playing 50% of games in each.

It could work and solve both issues, prob neither set of fans competely happy, but the WRU would struggle to support one extra never mind 2, so a compramise?

However the thing I see about bringing a team through like this is, would say Pony fans support it, after watching RGC play against Ponty in the Welsh prem for a few years?

Will northern fans be OK supporting them after watching them play against their local teams on the way up?

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 Aug 2012, 12:06 pm

Kingshu wrote:Could they Expand to be a North/Valleys team playing 50% of games in each.

It could work and solve both issues, prob neither set of fans competely happy, but the WRU would struggle to support one extra never mind 2, so a compramise?

However the thing I see about bringing a team through like this is, would say Pony fans support it, after watching RGC play against Ponty in the Welsh prem for a few years?

Will northern fans be OK supporting them after watching them play against their local teams on the way up?

YEah that would be as easy as it would be to get Ulster and Munster to be one side sharing their games.

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Post by Casartelli Fri 31 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm

Kingshu wrote:Could they Expand to be a North/Valleys team playing 50% of games in each.

It could work and solve both issues, prob neither set of fans competely happy, but the WRU would struggle to support one extra never mind 2, so a compramise?

However the thing I see about bringing a team through like this is, would say Pony fans support it, after watching RGC play against Ponty in the Welsh prem for a few years?

Will northern fans be OK supporting them after watching them play against their local teams on the way up?

That's probably the best idea I've ever seen on 606v2. Genius.

A centrally (WRU) funded region representing the 'middle bit', everything from the Bristol channel coast, to Cardigan Bay and the Manx Sea in the North.

Within 2 seasons they'd be pulling in 15k+ at the CCS, the Liberty (they wouldn't mind sharing) and the Racecourse - and taking lesser games (Connacht, the Italian teams, the Dragons) on the road elsewhere.

And they'd outsell the Ospreys in terms of jerseys - to be fair the RGC logo/badge is a beaut.

How do we make this happen?

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Post by Casartelli Fri 31 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Could they Expand to be a North/Valleys team playing 50% of games in each.

It could work and solve both issues, prob neither set of fans competely happy, but the WRU would struggle to support one extra never mind 2, so a compramise?

However the thing I see about bringing a team through like this is, would say Pony fans support it, after watching RGC play against Ponty in the Welsh prem for a few years?

Will northern fans be OK supporting them after watching them play against their local teams on the way up?

YEah that would be as easy as it would be to get Ulster and Munster to be one side sharing their games.


Come on Spidey, that's not a valid analogy. Ulster and Munster are actual things that have heritage going back centuries. We have some made up stuff going back 9.5 years.

An RGC/true Welsh region? Everyone would like that. Even Scarlets fans would sneak along to the odd game, incognito.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:14 pm

Casarelli - I was more on about location. And the fact that technically their region would be cut in two by other regions, as the Scarlets, Ospreys, Dragons region do spread across the mid of Wales, and Ponty is further south.

I would love to see RGC working as a region, and can't really thing of any reason anyone wouldn't. They are being built from the ground up, and developing the way a region should.
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Post by Coleman Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:16 pm

Pretty excited about this. They've been developed slowly which is what everyone was calling for, rather than just being dumping in to the Prem to get 60-0'd every game. Do they still have the development deal with Canada or has that expired now?

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Post by Casartelli Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:28 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Casarelli - I was more on about location. And the fact that technically their region would be cut in two by other regions, as the Scarlets, Ospreys, Dragons region do spread across the mid of Wales, and Ponty is further south.

I would love to see RGC working as a region, and can't really thing of any reason anyone wouldn't. They are being built from the ground up, and developing the way a region should.

Assuming Dragons are 'Gwent', Cardiff are, well, Cardiff, Ospreys are basically Swansea/Neath/Port Talbot and Scarlets take Carmarthenshire, then RGC 1404 could scoop up fans from the Bridgend county coast, up through the Valleys (sod Ponty fans if they don't want to get involved) and everything north of the Heads of the Valleys.

Massive potential (if done properly, which is of course highly unlikely).

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:35 pm

Casartelli wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Casarelli - I was more on about location. And the fact that technically their region would be cut in two by other regions, as the Scarlets, Ospreys, Dragons region do spread across the mid of Wales, and Ponty is further south.

I would love to see RGC working as a region, and can't really thing of any reason anyone wouldn't. They are being built from the ground up, and developing the way a region should.

Assuming Dragons are 'Gwent', Cardiff are, well, Cardiff, Ospreys are basically Glamorgan and Scarlets take Dyfyd, then RGC 1404 could scoop up fans from Gwynedd, Clwyd and Powys.

Massive potential (if done properly, which is of course highly unlikely).

Fixed.
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Post by Casartelli Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:45 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Casartelli wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Casarelli - I was more on about location. And the fact that technically their region would be cut in two by other regions, as the Scarlets, Ospreys, Dragons region do spread across the mid of Wales, and Ponty is further south.

I would love to see RGC working as a region, and can't really thing of any reason anyone wouldn't. They are being built from the ground up, and developing the way a region should.

Assuming Dragons are 'Gwent', Cardiff are, well, Cardiff, Ospreys are basically Glamorgan and Scarlets take Dyfyd, then RGC 1404 could scoop up fans from Gwynedd, Clwyd and Powys.

Massive potential (if done properly, which is of course highly unlikely).

Fixed.

You're hampering my plans for RGC domination Spiderman!

Not sure Ospreys can claim Glamorgan. Neath and Ponty not wanting a piece of the Ospreylia pie. And Scarlets representing all of Dyfed??? Really? Not by the size of the crowds they don't.

Anyway, that's not the point. RGC is the future. I'm going to draw a map.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:54 pm

Casartelli - Lets not get into the who represents who nonsence (by as for Dyfyd please don't argue with me I live in Pembs, and know people in Cardiganshire and Carms too). Anyhow RGC has to be kept to a sensible size.

Coleman - by building bit by bit and slowly edging towards their final goal, and not rying to dive straight in I think that RGC will probably end up being a real success story when they finally get their break at the big time. A bit like Exeter in the Jeff.
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Post by Casartelli Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:59 pm

I can see us taking some games to Carmarthen, Whitland, Narbs, Harrywest etc. We'll let the public decide! RGC, the democratic team.

All the Welsh speakers will be with us, for a start.

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Post by Kingshu Fri 31 Aug 2012, 2:13 pm

I just suggested it, because I can see Valley ones, not getting their region, they will either snub Regional rugby (as they do), or start supporting RGC as it is true region (but not attending games) buying shirt maybe?

while it would cover a big area, if it could sell out each ground when it played there, and in terms of shirt sales would have one of the biggest populations to appeal to,

While you may laugh at the concept SS, there surely it is better than the WRU trying to please RGC and the Valleys proposal

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 Aug 2012, 2:24 pm

Kingshu - I was not mocking your suggestion, just pointing out that the logistics are not feasable. Wales has a very poor public transport infrastructure, and the links between North and South are bad. I only used Munster and Ulster as an example as it is geography that you will understnad better.

First off the Scarlets and Dragons do represent real regions of Wales (Dyfyd and Gwent), if you ask people from those areas the majority agree. If you look at the map here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preserved_counties_of_Wales and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WalesRugbyRegions.png then it is pretty clear (ignoring north wales beeing lumped in with the Scarlets), that the SCarlets and Dragons are based on true regions of Wales.

Second the WRU will not entertain the Valleys region, even when the Valleys came out and said they would be self sufficient. The welsh prem is down to 12 teams (3 per region) and the valleys intend on plundering the other regions to make to take 7 of those sides (Blues, Ospreys, Dragons to have 1 side, Scarlets to have 2). There is no chance that the WRU will ever wan to do that. They would be better off entering the Welsh national side into the Rabo and having village teams taking up the other three slots. RGC has been the preferance for the 5th region since the Warriors went belly up, and things are being built up very carefully there in order to ensure it is maintainable. It will seem to the outside that nothing is happening, but behind the scenes things have been building nicely (age grade rugby etc). Fingers crossed this will continue and they will make the transition to being a full fledged region in the future.
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Post by Swperb Fri 31 Aug 2012, 2:29 pm

I think the RGC region should be left alone as is. North Wales have been denied access to high level rugby for too long. North Wales sides who managed to get through the divisions where sent back down because teams from the south could not afford to travel once a year to the north. It is currently impossible for any team (bar RGC 1404) from the north to be promoted. A merger with the Valleys proposition would be completely unfair as again North Wales would be denied access or there would be a reduction in the number of professional games up North. Although I like the idea of a Valleys region, I think North Wales should be given the opportunity.


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Post by Shifty Fri 31 Aug 2012, 8:00 pm

Ive been debating going to Bridgend Vs Llanelli, or Kenfig hill Vs Ammanford, but I may well end up going to Gilfach tomorrow, having read this topic.
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Post by Guest Fri 31 Aug 2012, 9:00 pm

It's a fair suggestion Kingshu, but the mountain range right through the middle of Wales makes the logistics really bad. It's not a straight line between the two so would be a nightmare for travelling fans. Unless of course they were happy to mainly attract the 'local' fans (I.e. mainly North Walians for the north games and valleys folk for the South Wales games). It could work, and would sort of satisfy the fans, apart from some Pontypridd fans who only want a region called Pontypridd playing at Sardis Road (I'm jesting of course :-})!

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Post by Swperb Fri 31 Aug 2012, 10:59 pm

I don’t think it would work or even be fair Grif. North Wales have never had a fair crack at the big time. It’s looking like they are going about it the right way from the ground up, creating a solid fan base. It has been in development for well over 10 years. To then declare that they must share this with the Valleys would be most unfair.
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Post by Guest Fri 31 Aug 2012, 11:26 pm

I agree Swperb. The North would be my choice over the valleys, mainly as the South is well served by 4 teams. Whether people buy into that or feel left out is up to them, but there's more than enough in a small geographical area already. But, it wouldn't be the first time that the WRU forced together two to make one!


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Post by Casartelli Sat 01 Sep 2012, 9:10 am

RGC 1404 will be playing half their games in the South and could attract a lot of casual fans, the curious and even the (dreaded word) 'disenfranchised', whoever the hell they are. And with a core of support in the south, finances will dictate that they'll bring some home games down here too.

If the WRU put some genuine effort (and some money) into it and '1404' perform well, they'll become a true Welsh region, appealing to anyone who wants to follow them.

Getting hung up on which team represents which patch (which, let's be honest, don't extend far beyond the town centres) has been holding us back for a decade.

1404 could be a team for the people and finally drag Welsh domestic rugby into the 21st century. I think it's a wonderful thing (until the money runs out and Roger creates another team in Cardiff or Llanelli at least) - and will be there from the start.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Sat 01 Sep 2012, 11:11 am

I agree with the rest of you the north deserves to be given the first crack at being the 5th region. And doing it the way they are looks to be hte sensible way of ensuring it will be sustainable.

Cas - get your head out of your rump mate, there are numerous people on here telling you on different threads that the regions are supported by people of the regions. If you did a quick survey on here of the regional fans and where they live you would know that.
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Post by Casartelli Sat 01 Sep 2012, 1:29 pm

That's the great thing about 1404. We're not disrupting the current set up - we're adding to it and enhancing it.

I see us as becoming the team that represents everything north of the M4, but anyone is welcome to be a 1404 follower, regardless of race, creed or where you live.

It's very inclusive and exciting, Spiderman, embrace the changes.

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Post by Casartelli Sat 01 Sep 2012, 5:08 pm

Solid start but plenty to work on. We're keeping our feet on the ground. Early doors yet.

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Post by Swperb Sat 01 Sep 2012, 5:16 pm

But I still believe that all of the home games should be played up in the north. There are four regions in the south within an hour of each other. It takes four and a half hours to see a regional game from the most northerly point.

There is more than enough interest as was evident from the attendance of the U20's six nations. (A record attendance of 5,500 for a Welsh U20's game) And the recent RGC game against Georgia was also a sell-out.
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Post by Swperb Sat 01 Sep 2012, 5:17 pm

Are you at the game Casartelli?
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Post by Swperb Sat 01 Sep 2012, 5:21 pm

Team sheet for RGC

1. Tom Hughes
2. Andrew Baston
3. James Jones
4. Bryn Williams
5. Mareddyd Francis
6. Aaron Gwyn
7. Tom Parry
8. Kelvin Davies (C)
9. Alex Schwarz
10. Rhodri Carlton-Jones
11. Richard Hopkins
12. Mike Jones
13. Harri Evans
14. Ben Stelmaszek
15. Llywarch Ap Myrddin

16. Rhodri Evans
17. Liam Leung
18. Marc Morris
19. Bryn Phillips
20. Carwyn Ap Myrddin

21. Brandon Allsop
22. Callum Bennett
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Post by Casartelli Sat 01 Sep 2012, 5:21 pm

Swperb wrote:Are you at the game Casartelli?

Regrettably not. Going to monitor results and see if we're any good before I fork out my hard earned for a ticket.

I was there in spirit though.

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Post by Swperb Sat 01 Sep 2012, 5:38 pm

RGC 1404 start season with great away win at last seasons fourth placed team Gilfach Goch

WRU Division One East
Gilfach Goch 19 v RGC 1404 42

Fixtures for the season

1 September 2012 Gilfach Goch v RGC1404, 14:30

8 September 2012 RGC1404 v Merthyr, 14:30

15 September 2012 Ynysybwl v RGC1404, 14:30

22 September 2012 RGC1404 v Tredegar, 14:30

29 September 2012 Rhydyfelin v RGC1404, 14:30

6 October 2012 RGC1404 v Heoly Cyw, 14:30

13 October 2012 Treorchy v RGC1404, 14:30

20 October 2012 RGC1404 v Rumney, 14:30

3 November 2012 Ystrad Rhondda v RGC1404, 14:30

17 November 2012 RGC1404 v Penallta, 14:30

8 December 2012 Mountain Ash v RGC1404, 14:30

22 December 2012 RGC1404 v Gilfach Goch, 14:30

5 January 2013 Merthyr v RGC1404, 14:30

12 January 2013 RGC1404 v Ynysybwl, 14:30

26 January 2013 Tredegar v RGC1404, 14:30

16 February 2013 RGC1404 v Rhydyfelin, 14:30

2 March 2013 Heoly Cyw v RGC1404, 14:30

23 March 2013 RGC1404 v Treorchy, 14:30

30 March 2013 Rumney v RGC1404, 14:30

6 April 2013 RGC1404 v Ystrad Rhondda, 14:30

13 April 2013 Penallta v RGC1404, 14:30

20 April 2013 RGC1404 v Mountain Ash, 14:30
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Post by Shifty Sun 02 Sep 2012, 8:52 am

Kingshu wrote:Could they Expand to be a North/Valleys team playing 50% of games in each.

It could work and solve both issues, prob neither set of fans competely happy, but the WRU would struggle to support one extra never mind 2, so a compramise?

However the thing I see about bringing a team through like this is, would say Pony fans support it, after watching RGC play against Ponty in the Welsh prem for a few years?

Will northern fans be OK supporting them after watching them play against their local teams on the way up?

Sadly this idea won;t work, if you remember the Scottish side Caledonia they played some games in Perth and Aberdeen and a lot of their fans complained it was difficult to support them. If you have 12 home games a year hat is halved again if the team played at the other end of the country.

6 "home" games a season is not really enough to be honest.
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Post by Shifty Sun 02 Sep 2012, 8:53 am

RGC1404 head coach Chris Horsman described his side's 42-19 win over Gilfach Goch as "a fantastic day for north Wales," as they kick started their season with an easy victory.

Competing in SWALEC League One East for the first time, RGC ran in five tries as they eventually overran a competitive and physical Gilfach side.

Flanker Tom Parry crossed twice with centres Mike Jones and Harri Evans and winger Richard Hopkins also getting themselves on the score sheet.

And Horsman was particularly pleased with how his young side took on their opponents up front as well as running in five tries.

"This is a step up of about four or five leagues for our boys who have been playing in division one north and division two north and to come into division one of the national leagues is a huge step," he said.

"There were a few nerves but with a young side and coming to a difficult place we'd have taken 42 points this morning.

"The lineout was exceptional and we dominated and controlled theirs.

"Gilfach are a very good side and their results over the last few years show that no one comes here and wins by that margin of points so we're really, really pleased."

After a scrappy opening to the game in blustery conditions, RGC took control through tries from Jones and Evans with fly-half Rhodri Carlton-Jones adding the extras to give his side a 14-0 lead.

Two infringements from the visitors allowed Gilfach fullback Ian Davies to narrow the lead to eight points before RGC pulled further clear when Hopkins dived over in the left hand corner. Carlton-Jones missed the conversion and when Gilfach flanker Craig Davies replied with a try just before half-time, RGC led by just eight points.

And Horsman believes his squad can be even more clinical as the season progresses.

"We're disappointed as we wasted seven or eight missed opportunities," he added.

"They put us under a lot of pressure and it was a great test for us but the average age in our squad is 20 or 21 and I was pleased with it.

"Our skill work started to show with the good rugby that we played.

"We'll have a look at the video but overall it's a good start."

The start of the second half saw RGC forward Parry score his first try after he picked up a loose ball and although the visitors allowed the scores to get close at one stage there was only ever going to be one winner.

After securing possession, it was the RGC backs who looked the most dangerous with Evans running some dangerous lines from centre and scrum half Alex Shwarz feeding his backs effectively.

Sustained spells of pressure saw RGC waste a number of gilt-edged chances and even though they saw two players receive yellow cards they ran out comfortable winners.

Parry scored again with Carlton-Jones adding the conversion and although Andrew Williams crossed for Gilfach, two late RGC penalties from Carlton-Jones secured the win leaving Horsman happy with how things went.

"It's a fantastic day for north Wales and I feel very humbled to be the head coach," he said.

"It's not just me though, so many people are involved in it and I feel humbled really to be lucky enough to head it up."

1. Tom Hughes (Bala)
2. Andrew Baston (Chester)
3. James Jones (Nant Conwy)
4. Bryn Williams (Colwyn Bay)
5. Mareddyd Francis (Llandudno and RGC 1404 Academy)
6. Aaron Gwyn (Caernarfon and RGC 1404 Academy)
7. Tom Parry (Pwllheli and RGC 1404 Academy)
8. Kelvin Davies (C) (Llandudno)
9. Alex Schwarz
10. Rhodri Carlton-Jones (Rhyl)
11. Richard Hopkins (Mold)
12. Mike Jones (Ruthin and RGC 1404 Academy)
13. Harri Evans (Llandudno and RGC 1404 Academy)
14. Ben Stelmaszek (Bethesda)
15. Llywarch Ap Myrddin (Nant Conwy)

16. Rhodri Evans (Caernarfon RFC, RGC 1404 Academy, Wales U18)
17. Liam Leung (Caernarfon)
18. Marc Morris
19. Bryn Phillips (Welsh Exiles)
20. Carwyn Ap Myrddin (Nant Conwy)

21. Brandon Allsop (Llangefni)
22. Callum Bennett

Results so far:
RGC 19-5 Bargoed (at Llanidloes RFC)
TATA Steel 50 v RGC 14
RGC 36-5 Caldy (at Ruthin RFC)
Gilfach Goch 19-42 RGC
Shifty
Shifty

Posts : 7393
Join date : 2011-04-26
Age : 44
Location : Kenfig Hill, Bridgend

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RGC 1404 - the (re)start of something big? Empty Re: RGC 1404 - the (re)start of something big?

Post by Coleman Mon 03 Sep 2012, 6:30 pm

Great result! Will be a toughie next week when Merthyr go up there. As regarding some of the comments, RGC could easily become a lot of fans second team. As North Wales has long been ignored and the teams from that way aren’t really involved in the tribal grudges from down this way.

Coleman

Posts : 1554
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Cardiff

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