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The Official *England to World Twenty-20 Glory* Thread

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Sep 2012, 9:51 pm

"What is our aim?... Victory... Victory at all costs. Victory in spite of all terror. Victory, however long and hard the road may be. For without victory, there is no survival."
Sir Winston Churchill


So in just over 2 weeks time, on Friday September 21, England will begin their quest to defend their World T20 Crown in Sri Lanka, just 2 years after winning the trophy in the Caribbean.

"This England never did, nor never shall, Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror."
William Shakespeare


The preparations will begin with a 3 match T20 Series at home to the Saffers, win that series and England will become the No.1 T20 Side in the World. From there, England will fly off to Sri Lanka and have 2 warm-up games against Australia and Pakistan in Colombo.

"Let not England forget her precedence of teaching nations how to live."
John Milton


After that, the tournament will finally begin. In England's pool are Afghanistan and India. Afghanistan will be mercilessly thrashed, and India will be beaten soundly to once again prove that they and the IPL are overrated.

"Only the Englishman is the pinnacle of perfection and nature’s masterpiece."
Riem


Then the Super Eight phase will start. If it goes the way it should, the West Indies (one man team), South Africa (never good at tournaments or T20s) and New Zealand (whipping boys) will all be in the Super Eight Group with England. Of course, none of them will be able to compete with the might of England and will be brushed aside.

"The world still consists of two clearly divided groups; the English and the foreigners. One group consists of less than 50 million people; the other of 3,950 million people. The latter group does not really count."
George Mikes


Then a probable semi-final against the Aussies, a good test before the Final but, ultimately, an England win. England will then march into the final at Colombo - I think against the Sri Lankans but never rule out Pakistan - and give a dominant display to cement England's back-to-back titles. And remember lads:

"England expects that every man will do his duty."
Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson

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Post by skyeman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 9:57 pm

Love your patriotism.

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Post by skyeman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 9:59 pm

But with giggle cricket, all we can do is hope. The Official *England to World Twenty-20 Glory* Thread 3933776953

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:06 pm

skyeman wrote:But with giggle cricket, all we can do is hope. The Official *England to World Twenty-20 Glory* Thread 3933776953

Always a worry with Twenty-20 Cricket is rain, because D/L doesn't really work for T20. And the games can get reduced to 5 overs an innings and that improves the chances of the smaller teams.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:09 pm

Duty281 wrote:
skyeman wrote:But with giggle cricket, all we can do is hope. The Official *England to World Twenty-20 Glory* Thread 3933776953

Always a worry with Twenty-20 Cricket is rain, because D/L doesn't really work for T20. And the games can get reduced to 5 overs an innings and that improves the chances of the smaller teams.

Like Australia? Wink

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Post by Duty281 Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:11 pm

JDizzle wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
skyeman wrote:But with giggle cricket, all we can do is hope. The Official *England to World Twenty-20 Glory* Thread 3933776953

Always a worry with Twenty-20 Cricket is rain, because D/L doesn't really work for T20. And the games can get reduced to 5 overs an innings and that improves the chances of the smaller teams.

Like Australia? Wink

laughing thumbsup

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:15 pm

The rain point is actually very true, particularly in the initial group stage where one defeat makes all the difference.

Lets look back to 2010. England made a big score v WI but with the chase reduced to 10 overs or something WI got home. The next game against Ireland, the Irish were in a strong position before the rain eventually saw the match abandoned.

Had we lost to Ireland we wouldn't even have made the Super Eight.

In this tournament all teams need to be watched. In the 50-over WC it takes an exceptional effort for anyone other than the top 8 to make the quarter-finals. But here it could only take one win for an outsider to make the Super Eights.

Afghanistan are a good bowling side (probably as good in the pace department as any Asian team, though slightly lacking elsewhere save for a couple of players) and could catch England out if we don't play well, particularly in a shortened game.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:21 pm

good luck
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Post by JDizzle Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:29 pm

Here are the groups:

A: England, India, Afghanistan
B: Australia, West Indies, Ireland
C: Sri Lanka, South Africa, Zimbabwe
D: Pakistan, New Zealand, Bangladesh

So where is the shock coming from? I could see Ireland beating West Indies, on the conditions they can get Gayle out early and master Narine, but it probably isn't likely and I wouldn't rule them out against Australia either, who I feel will have real trouble on these pitches.

Zimbabwe should be cruised past by SL and SA, they will just be too strong in all departments and the Zimbabwe spinners aren't good enough to
restrict them and they only really have Brendan Taylor to get their runs.

Bangladesh will get out of their group. I am going to put my neck on the line and call that, and I suspect it will be NZ that they beat but then NZ could easily beat Pakistan if they have a poor game and McCullum and/or Taylor fires. I'll claim every team in this group finishes on one win.

Afghanistan are a very good Associate side, but they have a tough draw. India should bat them out of the game and England should have enough as well, unless rain intervenes.

Super 8 qualifiers: India, England, West Indies, Australia, SA, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan

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Post by skyeman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:13 pm

I think we will be ok with the monsoon season. The South-west corner of Sri Lanka, the Wet Zone, has its main wet season from May to early September.

The three stadia used Colombo, Kandy and Hambantota are away from that region.

Fingers crossed.

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Post by Biltong Fri 07 Sep 2012, 12:00 am

Well Duty after that ode to all things English, I can only wish you the best of luck. thumbsup
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Post by skyeman Fri 07 Sep 2012, 12:12 am

But i must add, well done Duty. That must have taken you quite some time to compile.

I like the effort clap

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 07 Sep 2012, 1:13 am

Lovely read and most of it's true...

Get on board the tipping comp fellas.

Your country needs you!

https://www.606v2.com/t34564-t20-world-cup
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 07 Sep 2012, 12:09 pm

JDizzle wrote:Here are the groups:

A: England, India, Afghanistan
B: Australia, West Indies, Ireland
C: Sri Lanka, South Africa, Zimbabwe
D: Pakistan, New Zealand, Bangladesh

So where is the shock coming from? I could see Ireland beating West Indies, on the conditions they can get Gayle out early and master Narine, but it probably isn't likely and I wouldn't rule them out against Australia either, who I feel will have real trouble on these pitches.

Zimbabwe should be cruised past by SL and SA, they will just be too strong in all departments and the Zimbabwe spinners aren't good enough to
restrict them and they only really have Brendan Taylor to get their runs.

Bangladesh will get out of their group. I am going to put my neck on the line and call that, and I suspect it will be NZ that they beat but then NZ could easily beat Pakistan if they have a poor game and McCullum and/or Taylor fires. I'll claim every team in this group finishes on one win.

Afghanistan are a very good Associate side, but they have a tough draw. India should bat them out of the game and England should have enough as well, unless rain intervenes.

Super 8 qualifiers: India, England, West Indies, Australia, SA, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan

Agreed . This is Bangladeshs big chance to get out of their group. Of course one of the beauties of T20 is that one off games can easily throw up freak results so we could see some other shocks too. England and India though should be safe from the Afghans, they may be the rising force of second tier cricket but they are still little more than enthusiastic amateurs. I dont think either will lift the trophy though..Englands side is a mess again and theres people been named in the squad who on form shouldnt be there. India just havent been very good at T20 fullstop despite the IPL
The Aus group really is wide open. They in theory should be able to put together a very good side but the lack of spinners and experience in playing spin is a huge issue for them, as is the captain. West Indies are a team who on paper have all the ingredients but also have some pretty dodgy players too, and seem stacked with all rounders and finishers. Narine gives them a dimension theyve maybe lacked in the past ...like Aus I wouldnt like to predict how they go. Ireland are obviously the weakest of the three, although if Aus lose the 2nd Pakistan game they will be ranked BELOW them and in cricinfos words be classed a "krill nation"
Zimbabwe have no hope up against two of the serious title contenders

Im going to stick my neck out and say Pakistan or Sri Lanka for the title. Sorry , Im a traitor

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Post by msp83 Fri 07 Sep 2012, 3:09 pm

Good luck England, but I don't see them repeating 2010. Don't have the fire power with the bat, particularly without Pietersen, and unless Swann's injury situation improving big time they would struggle on the spinning tracks.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 10:14 pm

So we draw the rain-affected home series 1-1. The bowling looks class, the batting is looking better and batter. Good signs for England. Now it's time to jet off to Colombo for warm-up matches against Australia and Pakistan on Monday and Wednesday before the tournament proper starts a week Friday.

"This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure."
Sir Winston Churchill

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Post by skyeman Wed 12 Sep 2012, 10:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:So we draw the rain-affected home series 1-1. The bowling looks class, the batting is looking better and batter. Good signs for England. Now it's time to jet off to Colombo for warm-up matches against Australia and Pakistan on Monday and Wednesday before the tournament proper starts a week Friday.

"This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure."
Sir Winston Churchill



I wish KP was there.

Mr Skyeman

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 10:44 pm

Great stuff Duty. Keep it up.

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Post by skyeman Wed 12 Sep 2012, 10:55 pm

Dhoni said conditions in Sri Lanka had changed over the years and there wasn't much help for spinners during India's limited-overs tour to the country in July and August.

They were very spin friendly when England toured SL a few months back and i still think the likes of Ashwin, Ajmal, Botha, Narine, Rehman and Swann will fair better than the quicks.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 11:07 pm

It will be a mix in Sri Lanka.

Most of the matches are played at Colombo (RPS) - generally a flat pitch, which will turn if anything. With so many matches there you've got to think the pitches will get tired.

The others are played at the new grounds in Kandy (which you might hear called Pallekele) and Hambantota. Kandy in particular has been a good ground for the seamers of late. Hambantota is still a bit of an unknown.

Galle is probably the spin capital of world cricket, but only the women's tournament is being played there.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 12 Sep 2012, 11:38 pm

Briggs bowled well today. Could England pick Patel as well (instead of Bresnan, well though he bowled today) and go in with three spinners? With Briggs capable of bowling in PPs it's not impossible...

I'm a bit worried about our top 3 (Kies excepted). Hales is a good player, but does he have the firepower? PP key as that's where the biggest runs will probably come. Middle-order looks good now Buttler will have the belief. Bowling looks great. I think we have a very good chance...

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Post by chrisss Thu 13 Sep 2012, 12:55 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Briggs bowled well today. Could England pick Patel as well (instead of Bresnan, well though he bowled today) and go in with three spinners? With Briggs capable of bowling in PPs it's not impossible...

I'm a bit worried about our top 3 (Kies excepted). Hales is a good player, but does he have the firepower? PP key as that's where the biggest runs will probably come. Middle-order looks good now Buttler will have the belief. Bowling looks great. I think we have a very good chance...

How about Patel instead of Wright or Bopara, with Morgan or Bairstow or at 3? With the way Bopara and Wright have been batting, I don't think that would weaken the batting at all.

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Post by skyeman Thu 13 Sep 2012, 1:28 am

England's win this evening takes them back to the top of the T20 rankings.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 13 Sep 2012, 7:51 am

chrisss wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Briggs bowled well today. Could England pick Patel as well (instead of Bresnan, well though he bowled today) and go in with three spinners? With Briggs capable of bowling in PPs it's not impossible...

I'm a bit worried about our top 3 (Kies excepted). Hales is a good player, but does he have the firepower? PP key as that's where the biggest runs will probably come. Middle-order looks good now Buttler will have the belief. Bowling looks great. I think we have a very good chance...

How about Patel instead of Wright or Bopara, with Morgan or Bairstow or at 3? With the way Bopara and Wright have been batting, I don't think that would weaken the batting at all.

Have you see Patels recent scores? He averages 11 in international T20s...frankly he doesnt warrant a place in the side either

Englands "all rounders" are all but

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 13 Sep 2012, 8:26 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Briggs bowled well today. Could England pick Patel as well (instead of Bresnan, well though he bowled today) and go in with three spinners? With Briggs capable of bowling in PPs it's not impossible...

I'm a bit worried about our top 3 (Kies excepted). Hales is a good player, but does he have the firepower? PP key as that's where the biggest runs will probably come. Middle-order looks good now Buttler will have the belief. Bowling looks great. I think we have a very good chance...
No Finn????

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Post by Duty281 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:59 am

Doing well in the warm-up against the Aussies so far, England made 172/6 with Hales making 52. Australia currently 4/1.

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Post by Shelsey93 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 8:26 am

England win their warm-up game by 9 runs. Mike Hussey made 71 but little else from Australia.

England played Briggs and Bresnan rather than Patel and Dernbach. I'd expect the other two to play in the second warm-up game and v Afghanistan.

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Post by Fists of Fury Mon 17 Sep 2012, 9:20 am

Decent workout for England. Broad and Briggs too expensive, and Bresnan too, but good work from Swann and Finn.

Nice knocks from Hales, Wright, Morgan.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 17 Sep 2012, 9:30 am

We must be keeping our powder dry... Wink

Just a reminder - we've got a World T20 tipping competition happening.

https://www.606v2.com/t34564-t20-world-cup
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 17 Sep 2012, 10:48 am

Nice to see Luke Wright making some runs (give a monkey enough typewriters...), even if Buttler is back to "form"

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Post by Duty281 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 7:53 pm

Linebreaker wrote:We must be keeping our powder dry... Wink

Just a reminder - we've got a World T20 tipping competition happening.

https://www.606v2.com/t34564-t20-world-cup

No worries, I've joined. thumbsup

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 17 Sep 2012, 11:15 pm

Yeah thanks Duty. OK
Not long to go now. Should be a good comp.
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Post by Duty281 Tue 18 Sep 2012, 5:36 pm

Final warm-up game tomorrow against Pakistan, should be a challenge and a yardstick of where we are.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 19 Sep 2012, 8:05 am

England bowled out for 111, Wright top scored with 38. Thanks to the bowlers, Pakistan have gone from 41/2 to 86/7 with 2 overs to go.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 19 Sep 2012, 8:16 am

England win by 15 runs, fantastic bowling display. 2 wins out of 2 in the warm-ups!

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 19 Sep 2012, 8:17 am

Especially impressive as while England played an 11 man team, Pakistan used 13 men - so effectively replaced two bowlers with batsmen when they were chasing.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 19 Sep 2012, 9:08 am

and today showed why Pakistan probably won't win the T20 WC either. Muddled selection (what's the point in playing 13 in your final warm-up?), even more muddled batting order (Kamran Akmal in at 9, really?), they don't seem to know what their best team is. Maybe I'm being harsh and they were just trying a few things out, but with 9 batsmen + Arafat they should be chasing 112.

England had their "usual" problem of struggling to hit boundaries in the middle, but then again Pakistan hit very few too, so maybe it just wasn't a very good pitch. Excellent bowling performance from England, Briggs impressive again, as were Dernbach and Broad. I've a few mixed feelings now about our best side as I'd like to see us try to squeeze Briggs in (much more effective bowler than Patel) but that leaves us with a long tail (as in today's match with Swann instead of Patel). Thoughts?

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Post by Fists of Fury Wed 19 Sep 2012, 9:14 am

Bowlers bowl, batsmen bat. Get rid of Patel and go with Briggs. The safe option gets you nowhere. Back your top six.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 19 Sep 2012, 9:22 am

I'm tempted to agree with you Fists. I'm just a bit worried by Finn at n°9 Shocked. Briggs is of course a much better fielder than Patel too (worth maybe 3-4 runs per innings). Before the last few games I'd have said Patel gives the side better balance so go with him. I still think Patel gives the side better balance, but in these conditions I'd like to see Briggs in. Plus having five proper bowlers would mean absolutely no let-up for the batting side.

Another option is Bresnan in for Finn to bolster the batting, but I'm really not a fan of that one (as a trio of seamers Finn Dernbach and Broad work really well in T20 I think).

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Post by jimbohammers Wed 19 Sep 2012, 9:48 am

Fists of Fury wrote:Bowlers bowl, batsmen bat. Get rid of Patel and go with Briggs. The safe option gets you nowhere. Back your top six.

Exactly what i said last week! clap

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Post by Fists of Fury Wed 19 Sep 2012, 10:20 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I'm tempted to agree with you Fists. I'm just a bit worried by Finn at n°9 Shocked. Briggs is of course a much better fielder than Patel too (worth maybe 3-4 runs per innings). Before the last few games I'd have said Patel gives the side better balance so go with him. I still think Patel gives the side better balance, but in these conditions I'd like to see Briggs in. Plus having five proper bowlers would mean absolutely no let-up for the batting side.

Another option is Bresnan in for Finn to bolster the batting, but I'm really not a fan of that one (as a trio of seamers Finn Dernbach and Broad work really well in T20 I think).

I think Finn has to play, MFC. His pace will not be to the liking of many sub-continental batsmen and it gives us an extra edge. Variation is perhaps one thing he must still work on in the shortest format.

I agree with you about our tail. If we collapse then it could have big consequences, but I think you have to back your top 7 to perform. Also, as you rightly say, we should offer no let-up for the batting side.

By the way, WHERE'S YOUR CHINA REVIEW? Haha.

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Post by Mike Selig Wed 19 Sep 2012, 10:28 am

After the warm-ups I'd say "stuff it" and go all out with the best bowlers. Swann and Broad can bat a bit, and Finn can bash it for a couple of overs mostly. This is T20, if you can't rely on 6 batsmen to play for 16 of those overs between them...

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Post by jimbohammers Wed 19 Sep 2012, 10:29 am

If our batsmen don't do anything ridiculous then our bowlers at 9, 10 and 11 won't have to bat in a 20 over game.


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Post by VTR Wed 19 Sep 2012, 10:32 am

I don't think it matters who bats at 9. I'm I read there have only ever been two 50's from number 7 in T20 internationals. That's across quite a few games now. If you lose 7 wickets in 20 overs you're likely to be struggling anyway and the no9 would have no time to turn it round.

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Post by Fists of Fury Wed 19 Sep 2012, 11:45 am

Spot on, VTR.

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Post by JDizzle Wed 19 Sep 2012, 2:56 pm

I wouldn't expect the number 7's to score many 50's, but it is not those that are crucial in T20's. From that role, the 20's off 10 and the 30's off 14/15 are equally crucial to get you the momentum for the bowling and just to get you above par. Bres made 23* from 11 in the Super 8's against NZ in 2010 which proved crucial in getting us over the line and I am not sure I would back Broad or Swann to be able to play that knock like Patel could.

I'd still go with Patel, but the fact Briggs has played both warm up games and opened the bowling suggests they have a specific plan for him to do that in the tournament and I wouldn't mind if they went that way, as long as we win!

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Post by VTR Wed 19 Sep 2012, 4:36 pm

Agree JD. I was responding to the person who was concerned by Finn at 9. I'd be concerned if our 9 was batting be it Steven Finn or Don Bradman. Generally losing 7 wickets have killed momentum so you'd be looking at a slow run rate and only a couple of overs left for the number 9.

A decent 9 may squeak you over the line in a tight game, but we've got to back our top 6 or 7 and if they fail we weren't good enough so deserve to go home.

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Post by JDizzle Wed 19 Sep 2012, 5:04 pm

Yeah, I agree with you there. Our three best seamers are Broad, Finn and Dernbach (not necessarily in that order) so they all have to play. Swann has to play, then it is a straight choice between Patel and Briggs and batting has to come into this decision IMO. Whether you are happy with Broad and Swann at 7/8 or not. If you decide that the extra benefit from Briggs's bowling off sets Patel's batting, I am not sure it does, then fair enough. I wouldn't go that way, but it is looking like Flower will and he knows better than me!

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 19 Sep 2012, 10:07 pm

I'm still uncertain on Briggs. Whilst I've been very dismissive of Samit Patel the Test cricketer I don't think he's the worst second spinner - my impression is he doesn't get hit that much, and we saw today that a Yuvraj-type bowler isn't the worst to have.

Briggs is very effective in the FL t20 where opposition teams view him as a threat. But I can see some batsmen deciding to go after him here, and I'm not sure he's quite good enough yet to react to that if the batsman starts going big.

Of course in a tie-break Patel wins because of his batting. The fielding isn't that different - Patel is mercurial in the field, but Briggs isn't ligtning himself.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Wed 19 Sep 2012, 11:52 pm

Dernbach going through one of his better phases at the moment. I hope it lasts.... Shocked

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