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World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September

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super_realist
nasisillmatic
Beer
liverbnz
MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch
Riggs
hampo17
JamesLincs
Henman Bill
monty junior
Ent
Crimey
Kay Fabe
Smirnoffpriest
Duty281
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Post by Duty281 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 7:45 am

Serbia v Wales (19:30)
Northern Ireland v Luxembourg (19:45)
England v Ukraine (20:00)
Scotland v Macedonia (20:00)


Predictions:

Serbia 1-1 Wales
Northern Ireland 3-0 Luexmbourg
England 2-0 Ukraine
Scotland 0-0 Macedonia

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Post by Smirnoffpriest Tue 11 Sep 2012, 2:17 pm

I really hope no one else drops out of the Wales squad and Allen is fit - as it's going to be hard enough missing the number of players we're already missing without losing more.

1-1 sounds sensible, though I really hope we can sneak it, Serbia are a very good side though.

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Post by Kay Fabe Tue 11 Sep 2012, 5:38 pm

Serbia aren't that great to be honest, they haven't scored a goal in their last 6 games, they're technically sound and can pass the ball well but they don't have much creativity or guile in the final 3rd, they're pretty strong in the air and their goalie is very commanding and comes for everything, they're prone to go to sleep though at set pieces so quick corners and free kicks are a must against them



**Edit**

Told you Serbia didn't have any guile in the final third Smile


Last edited by the-gaffer on Tue 11 Sep 2012, 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Crimey Tue 11 Sep 2012, 7:35 pm

I think it's a mistake starting Gerrard and Lampard together against a side like Ukraine who are a lot better than Moldova, he'd have been better off starting Michael Carrick as a holding midfielder.

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Post by Smirnoffpriest Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:17 pm

disallowed goal for defoe

Wales sounds like their playing woefully 3-1 down - shocking

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:34 pm

Wasn't a disallowed goal as whistle blew for foul before he shot, unlucky though.

England are doing alright considering there would be an argument that 8-10 of the outfield players would be second choice or lower.

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Post by Crimey Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:38 pm

Like a reverse of the rest of his career Gerrard is starting to play a lot better for England than he does for Liverpool. I think the role Hodgson is using him in is perfect for this point in his career.

England have been too content to sit back, need to take the game to Ukraine. It's been almost friendly like.

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Post by Crimey Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:39 pm

And now 1-0. Definitely need to go for it a bit more.

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:46 pm

Define go for it? They can't do much more.

Maybe take off cleverly/lampard?

Just got to remember this is a below strength England side

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Post by Crimey Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:51 pm

Ent wrote:Define go for it? They can't do much more.

Maybe take off cleverly/lampard?

Just got to remember this is a below strength England side

They seem too content just to sit back and pass between defence and midfield. Need to try and bring Chamberlain and Milner/Johnson using the wings a bit more. I think they've been a bit too casual maybe.

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Post by monty junior Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:51 pm

Crap first half from Scotland, important goal from Miller but my god our defense is so so so so bad. Hutton has been great going forward, Dixon,Webster and Berra though would struggle to get a game for East Stirling playing like that. Rhodes on in the second half, if we don't win the groups done already. Macedonia have been very good going forward, though their goal was a yard offside they'll feel unlucky to be all square.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:52 pm

Right then. After an early dose of Ukraine pressure, England have kept the ball well, we're patient and it's the right thing to do. Defoe had a clear goal chalked off and Cleverley's had 3 good chances where he should have scored at least 1. Ukraine have the lead virtue of a great strike. So let's up the tempo, push up the field and use width to beat Ukraine. Come on England!

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Post by Henman Bill Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:53 pm

England have been the better side by a clear margin but didn't take their chances, had some bad luck and fell to a sucker punch. Will be harder now as Ukraine fall back but they can't afford to lose this.

The aging Lampard and certainly Gerrrard look like two of our best players. Gerrard has been our best so far while younger players like Cleverly haven't risen to the occassion. Doesn't bode well for the future. I wonder if we're finally seeing the impact of foreign players in the Premiership.

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Post by Smirnoffpriest Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:56 pm

Henman Bill wrote:England have been the better side by a clear margin but didn't take their chances, had some bad luck and fell to a sucker punch. Will be harder now as Ukraine fall back but they can't afford to lose this.

The aging Lampard and certainly Gerrrard look like two of our best players. Gerrard has been our best so far while younger players like Cleverly haven't risen to the occassion. Doesn't bode well for the future. I wonder if we're finally seeing the impact of foreign players in the Premiership.

True, shame you can't go back to the glory days of the early 90s when English talent had plenty of chances to flourish...

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:03 pm

Crimey wrote:
Ent wrote:Define go for it? They can't do much more.

Maybe take off cleverly/lampard?

Just got to remember this is a below strength England side

They seem too content just to sit back and pass between defence and midfield. Need to try and bring Chamberlain and Milner/Johnson using the wings a bit more. I think they've been a bit too casual maybe.

Yeah but Ukraine set up well, kept cleverly quiet an cut off the channels.

All Milner did was make space for Johnson to run into- not sure what he offers but hard work?

Chamberlain I'm not convinced with, looks tidy on ball but doesn't do a lot- is young injured?

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:12 pm

Lucky o stay on the pitch there, mistimed the header so badly he could have gone.

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:28 pm

Lescott is so poor, so many errors and poor on the ball - what's the point in him?

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Post by JamesLincs Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:28 pm

well well, only england are preventing me from winning a nice bit of money tonight! :/

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:31 pm

What is this sub all about? Lampard and Milner are doing nothing?

Stupid to call up players and refusing to use them, may as well bring in guys for one game and be honest about it all.

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:40 pm

Lampards contribution to this game has been to get In welbecks way, nice one.

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Post by JamesLincs Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:44 pm

please 1 more!!!!!

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Post by JamesLincs Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:46 pm

stevie! rush of blood

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:47 pm

Hope your bet comes up but England don't deserve anything from this game.

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Post by JamesLincs Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:56 pm

i have a couple of other teams in different bets, mexico n argentina in one and uruguay n paraguay in an other and 2 others, but its probable that had england won i would of had a few hundred quid. grr!

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Post by monty junior Tue 11 Sep 2012, 9:57 pm

Levein please go and close the door on your way out! you will not be missed

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Post by Duty281 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 10:01 pm

Good solid point that for England. What was it? Clear goal chalked off, 3 times we hit the woodwork and a clear pen waved away. Nevertheless, we battled Ukraine and the crooked ref who liked dishing out cards to players in a white shirt (although Stevie G's red card was fair). Lampard stepped up when it mattered and we rescued a point. I do wonder what's the point of Milner, Johnson had to do 90% of the work down the right including the attacking and crossing. As for what follows, San Marino is a banker 3 points but Poland away will be a tough test.

Looking at the other results, it was a poor night for the other 3 home nations what with NI failing to beat Luxembourg, Wales getting tonked 6-1 and Scotland not winning again.

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 10:04 pm

Players to go for England:

Johnson - cant defend
Lescott - too man errors and no quality on the ball
Lampard - offers very little from open play against good teams
Milner - offers nothing but hard work, a waste
On the wing
Cleverly - come back when he starts as a number 10 for united ie never, unless he is going to be played in centre mid
Defoe - just incredibly greedy

Welbeck first choice, best player on the night IMO.

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Post by hampo17 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 10:22 pm

Ent are you having a laugh, Welbeck best player on the pitch?

Johnson offers so much going forward and his defending isn't as bad as people make out, infact he cleans up numerous messes made by the centre backs during every game. Cleverly isn't a number 10, if he and Welbeck could score England could have had four more on the night. Welbeck and Sturridge are both very selfish players and both lack basic ball control, I'd love to see Defoe play more with Rooney in the number 10 role. Defoe is the closest thing England have to a clinical striker.

Oh and Duty that first Welbeck pen shout was never a pen, it showed on the replay how much of a blatent dive it was, had he stayed on his feet a second longer it's likely there would have been contact but the ref got the decision spot on.

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Post by Crimey Tue 11 Sep 2012, 10:26 pm

I disagree totally on Johnson who once again performed well for England, he's always going to have to attack up the pitch when he's performing the role of winger as well as full back because of the inclusion of Milner, even then he still made many vital interventions at the back.

Lescott is a decent defender, he is a bit error prone, but not every centre back has to be perfect with the ball, when he's only playing six yard balls to Gerrard he's fine. I don't know who'd be a better option? I'm really not convinced by Cahill, Michael Dawson isn't even the Tottenham team, Steven Caulker needs more time. I don't think Rio Ferdinand should be brought back now.

I do agree with Lampard, Milner and Cleverley though. All of whom were pretty anonymous though the game. Milner does offer a lot of hard work, but he's just not good enough technically to warrant a place in the side.

I disagree on Defoe who while is perhaps a little greedy is a great goalscorer and has a great knack of being in the right place. He's a much better option than Welbeck who runs around like a headless chicken and has an awful first touch, he was good tonight because he was brought on when Ukraine were tiring and he's a fast, physical player. Defoe is a much better option, probably deserves second place behind Wayne Rooney.


I don't think 1-1 at home is a great result for England, it will probably be good enough in the end, but England should really be beating Ukraine.

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Post by Ent Tue 11 Sep 2012, 10:43 pm

Lescott is full of errors, so what is his benefit over a young player? He's made about 10 errors over the last 2 games with ni real defending to be done.

Johnson got roasted one on one tonight like every night, play him on the wing if anywhere.

Welbeck was pacy and direct and caused all sorts of problems, he an Rooney should start until a better option comes along- he missed because lampard was in his way narrowing his angle! No excuses for cleverly who tried hard in a position he isn't suited too but 2 poor misses.

Defoe is just greedy plain and simple, poor link up play and no physical presence.

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Post by Riggs Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:04 am

England were lucky against Ukraine....tells you something.....that something being we're still not good.

Frank: these games are not easy.
Yes Frank but you're professionals and not Amateurs. You play in the premier league therefore you are used to high pressures of expectation and you can play well.

No excuses what-so-ever, they should've won clearly but the Ukraine did a good job and good've won it. Great Ukraine goal.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 8:32 am

We had more chances and had more of the ball last night than when we played Ukraine at Euro 2012. We're improving, but luck just wasn't on our side last night,

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Post by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch Wed 12 Sep 2012, 9:10 am

What a frigging mess from Wales.
Diablolical.

That's a team of Premiership footballers now - there's no longer any excuse for that kind of performance. It was Sunday League. Completely and utterly inept. Well done - let's use the rest of the campaign to get ready for the next one shall we? That seems to be the plan every other bloody year. Why change the habit of a lifetime?

You know its bad when Scotland start licking their lips in anticipation of a gimmee.

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Post by liverbnz Wed 12 Sep 2012, 10:41 am

Duty281 wrote:We had more chances and had more of the ball last night than when we played Ukraine at Euro 2012. We're improving, but luck just wasn't on our side last night,

You are making it out that England are some sort of plucky underdogs coming up against one of the world's big hitters. This England team is full of CL winners, PL winners, etc. Why have people suddenly gone from expecting England to win tournaments (completely ridiculous granted) to being pleased with scraping a draw at home to a team ranked 36 places below them? If Capello had been in charge last night there would have been uproar.

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Post by hampo17 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 10:48 am

Riggs wrote:England were lucky against Ukraine....tells you something.....that something being we're still not good.

Frank: these games are not easy.
Yes Frank but you're professionals and not Amateurs. You play in the premier league therefore you are used to high pressures of expectation and you can play well.

No excuses what-so-ever, they should've won clearly but the Ukraine did a good job and good've won it. Great Ukraine goal.

Disagree with that comment, England had a legitimate goal disallowed, Cleverly should have had two goals maybe even three and Welbeck missed a great chance as well. On another night it would have been a very one sided scoreline from the same performance.

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Post by Guest Wed 12 Sep 2012, 11:42 am

hampo171 wrote:On another night it would have been a very one sided scoreline from the same performance.

WTF? Seriously?

Yes, England had chances but Ukraine had plenty of great chances that people just seem to want to forget. Ukraine could of had three or four last night with ease.

England were missing players but last night was embarrasing. Lampard's international career gets extended because he's a penalty taker, he offers absolutely nothing anymore, just plods around with his hunchback and duck mouth getting in people's way. Do international keepers realise he goes left on every penalty? Had to laugh when Andy Townsend gave the MOTM to Lampard........embarrasing. Cleverley is nowhere near good enough for that role. He's not good enough for Man Utd and should be nowhere near the England first team, those missed chances were appaling. Oxlaide-Chamberlain positional play is poor, it's like he doesnt really know what his best role is, anonymous for most of the night. Lescott is dreadful, mistakes waiting to happen. Actually thought Johnson played well up against their left winger. Gerrard is gone for Liverpool and is without doubt gone for England. The engine is not there anymore, players were walking around him in the second half.

This draw was a shocker. Hodgson can blame the ref all he wants but there's bigger problems for England. Poland, Ukraine, Montenegro away are going to be tough trips now.

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Post by Beer Wed 12 Sep 2012, 11:55 am

I thought Johnson was shocking going forward. When is he going to just ping the ball into the box rather than poncing around with the ball and doing stepovers? You say keepers should learn from Lampard but how ever left back in the world can't see that all Johnson can do is cut inside is ridiculous.

Baines was probably our MOTM from both games. Shame Chambo couldn't get into this game.

What it did highlight is that we have no other real options at present. Sturridge and Welbeck off the bench? Great, that'll get you goals, play 2 strikers who can't get a game or goal for their clubs. We had no plan B other than the usual hoofball which Gerrard started in the 6th minute of the game.

Defoe can get goals, problem is he's too inconsistent and doesn't play off the last man, which is what England need.

Cleverley was woeful. Hurry up and get fit, Wilshere.

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Post by Crimey Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:04 pm

To be fair, there isn't much aim for in the box, a few times people would cross the ball into the box only for Defoe to be too small.

I'm not sure England really know how they want to play, whether they want to play passing, flowing football with a pacey finisher up front or play with crosses into the box, wingers and full backs running up and down the line.

I have a feeling, had Rooney and Carroll been fit, they would have started ahead of Cleverley and Defoe. I think that's what Hodgson really wants to play. There is no benefit to starting Welbeck ahead of Defoe when Rooney isn't playing.

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Post by Guest Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:07 pm

- - - - - - - - -Carroll- - - - - - - - - - -

Young- - - - Rooney - - - - A Johnson

- - - - - -Rodwell - -Wilshere - - - - -

Cole - - Terry - - Cahill - - - G Johnson

- - - - - - - - - Hart - - - - - - - - - - -

That's the England side I would like to see.


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Post by Crimey Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:09 pm

Rodwell?!

Maybe in a couple of years time, but Manchester City buying you does not prove you're an established player at all.

I would have thought taking out Rodwell and replacing him with Gerrard is fairly similar to what Hodgson has in mind, with possibly Parker in for Carroll against the bigger sides.

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Post by nasisillmatic Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:18 pm

Jack Rodwell?

So you take out Gerrard, the only player that makes things happen with his passing, and replace him with a player who passes sideways and creates nothing.

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Post by Beer Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:21 pm

He'd be playing alongside Wilshere.

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Post by nasisillmatic Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm

So is Wilshere the answer to all our hopes?

I always thought Wilshere was more of an advanced midfielder. Having Rodwell as your only defensive midfielder is suicide.

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Post by Guest Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm

some people really have no idea @nasisillmatic

Lampard and Gerrard are gone. If you can't realise that then there's no hope.

You say having a specialised defensive midfielder in Rodwell is suicide but playing Gerrard and Lampard there is not???? I guess you want Parker or 'the crab' barry back in the mix?

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Post by Crimey Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:34 pm

Gerrard has been England's best player over the last two tournaments, despite the fact that many say he lost his legs year before.

If you want a defensive midfielder, Parker or Carrick or much better options than Rodwell who other than showing a lot of promise has yet to even make an impact at club level, so to suggest he is ready to be in the first team of England is ludicrous I think.

I also don't think we can rely on Wilshere, he's been injured for over a year, that is not just a small injury that people recover from, that's the kind of injury that affects the player for their entire career, he's young and has lost a key year of his progression and development as a footballer. I also think that he'll find it hard to even break into the Arsenal side on his return as Cazorla and Arteta are doing so well in the middle it will be hard to take them out.

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Post by nasisillmatic Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:39 pm

Gerrard has been Englands best and most creeative player now for a while, he's having better games for England than for Liverpool at the moment.

I never said playing Gerrard & Lampard wasn't suicide, I said replacing Gerrard for Rodwell was.

And why oh why do these England managers keep picking Gerrard & Lampard together? It hasn't worked for 8 years, drop one and move on.

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Post by super_realist Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:48 pm

Saying Gerrard has been England's most creative player is like saying Vanessa Feltz is better looking than Cherie Blair. It might be true, but it's nothing to boast about.

England given their resources are an absolutely terrible side.
Number 3 in the world is an hysterical joke.

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Post by Crimey Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:52 pm

Well when discussing who should play for England, it's entirely relevant though. It's not comparing Gerrard to Iniesta.

It's comments like that which make people think you're a WUM SR. It's neither relevant or appreciated.

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World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September Empty Re: World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September

Post by nasisillmatic Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:54 pm

I wasn't boasting, I was merely pointing out the fact that he has performed better than most so how can he be finished?

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World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September Empty Re: World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September

Post by GG Wed 12 Sep 2012, 12:59 pm

Gerrard is past it. Even his mediocre performances are hyped ridiculously now. He was a great player once, but his time has gone. Get rid of him.

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World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September Empty Re: World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September

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