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World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September

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World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September - Page 2 Empty World Cup Qualifiers Thread 11th September

Post by Duty281 Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:45 am

First topic message reminder :

Serbia v Wales (19:30)
Northern Ireland v Luxembourg (19:45)
England v Ukraine (20:00)
Scotland v Macedonia (20:00)


Predictions:

Serbia 1-1 Wales
Northern Ireland 3-0 Luexmbourg
England 2-0 Ukraine
Scotland 0-0 Macedonia

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Post by nasisillmatic Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:00 pm

So if Gerrard is past it what does that say about the rest of the team? Get rid?

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Post by Crimey Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:16 pm

I don't think Gerrard is past it, I just think his style is very unpopular amongst football fans now. I think if he, or Beckham, debuted today they would not have the same praise or popularity as they did 10-15 years ago because football is obsessed with the 'right' way to play football and short passes, keeping 60%+ possession.

It's why I think more and more people are starting to dislike Rooney as a football talent (most always disliked him as a human being) because his style is falling out of popularity, he's too bulldog-like, he is always fighting his way to the goal rather than the slick style favoured by the Spanish.

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Post by nasisillmatic Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:41 pm

That's a good point Crimey regarding people's perception of footballers these days.

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Post by Guest Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:10 pm

I think the point is do we stick with gerrard & lampard et al to get us possibly to the world cup and realistically go out early after the group stages or before OR do we just go youth everywhere and give them the experience to learn and build a new team. If we fail to qualify well then we do, it's not like staying with the experienced boys is going to do us any good in brazil or the long term is it. Give these youngsters the opportunity, build a new squad and get them ready for euro 2016 in france. thoughts?

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Post by Crimey Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:18 pm

I think that's an awful way to look at it, why then stick with the players in 2016, why not while attempting to qualify for 2016 do we not try and get the youth for 2018 ready, and then while qualifying for the 2018 get the youth for 2020 ready. It's just more evidence of this awful fixation with having to play the youth.

Hodgson is handling it perfectly, he's using who he believes are the best players available at the moment to qualify for the tournament and do the best at the tournament. At the same time, he is slowly integrating the youth into the side. It's exactly how it should be done.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:33 pm

Crimey wrote:I don't think Gerrard is past it, I just think his style is very unpopular amongst football fans now. I think if he, or Beckham, debuted today they would not have the same praise or popularity as they did 10-15 years ago because football is obsessed with the 'right' way to play football and short passes, keeping 60%+ possession.

It's why I think more and more people are starting to dislike Rooney as a football talent (most always disliked him as a human being) because his style is falling out of popularity, he's too bulldog-like, he is always fighting his way to the goal rather than the slick style favoured by the Spanish.

I hate it. Swansea get many many more plaudits for last season than Norwich did, despite only beating us on goal difference and us doing the double over them. Yet because they play a 'better' style of football, they get more plaudits. It's bullcrap
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Post by Guest Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:40 pm

Crimey wrote:I think that's an awful way to look at it, why then stick with the players in 2016, why not while attempting to qualify for 2016 do we not try and get the youth for 2018 ready, and then while qualifying for the 2018 get the youth for 2020 ready. It's just more evidence of this awful fixation with having to play the youth.

Hodgson is handling it perfectly, he's using who he believes are the best players available at the moment to qualify for the tournament and do the best at the tournament. At the same time, he is slowly integrating the youth into the side. It's exactly how it should be done.

That's not what i was saying. If you get the players the experience now during this campaign then we can build a new team that can be england team for the next five years +. Why would you chop and change every two years? England have come to a point, a crossroads, where this change can be enforced. The older players just arent good enough anymore. Gerrard and Lampard are not going to cause international midfielders problems at the highest level in 2014. Time we got some balls and got rid of the deadwood now. Why prolong or extend lampard's career, the only reason he's still in the team is because his penalties paper over his dire performances.

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Post by Crimey Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:44 pm

That's what the U21 is supposed to be for.

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Post by Smirnoffpriest Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:06 pm

John the only reason I can think is coz their currently playing better than the youngsters, and that youngsters like Cleverly and Chamberlain have proved they need some more experience and time before being up to the standard to be 1st team starters.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:10 pm

liverbnz wrote:
Duty281 wrote:We had more chances and had more of the ball last night than when we played Ukraine at Euro 2012. We're improving, but luck just wasn't on our side last night,

You are making it out that England are some sort of plucky underdogs coming up against one of the world's big hitters. This England team is full of CL winners, PL winners, etc. Why have people suddenly gone from expecting England to win tournaments (completely ridiculous granted) to being pleased with scraping a draw at home to a team ranked 36 places below them? If Capello had been in charge last night there would have been uproar.

No I'm not fully pleased, we should have won yesterday. What I am pleased about is the level of performance which was so much better than when we played Ukraine in June. We should have won yesterday but didn't on account of poor finishing and shocking refereeing.

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Post by GG Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:35 pm

Olly wrote:
Crimey wrote:I don't think Gerrard is past it, I just think his style is very unpopular amongst football fans now. I think if he, or Beckham, debuted today they would not have the same praise or popularity as they did 10-15 years ago because football is obsessed with the 'right' way to play football and short passes, keeping 60%+ possession.

It's why I think more and more people are starting to dislike Rooney as a football talent (most always disliked him as a human being) because his style is falling out of popularity, he's too bulldog-like, he is always fighting his way to the goal rather than the slick style favoured by the Spanish.

I hate it. Swansea get many many more plaudits for last season than Norwich did, despite only beating us on goal difference and us doing the double over them. Yet because they play a 'better' style of football, they get more plaudits. It's bullcrap

Football is about entertainment, which it seemed Swansea provided more so than Norwich. It's subjective, get over it.

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Post by Crimey Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:43 pm

I found Norwich more entertaining than Swansea.

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Post by Liam Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:52 pm

Olly,

Look, it seems you have a real grudge with swansea because they got more plaudits than Norwich last season, even though, like you said, you did the double over them and only finished behind on goal difference. I understand where you coming from.

But you have to put it into perspective. Swansea like Norwich, have endured bad times in the last decade, with Swansea almostb dropping out of the league. To then come as far as they have is astonishing to all Welsh fans/; To be the 1st Welsh side in the PL was incredible. Then, to play the football that they did and do it effectively on a tiny budget was superb. They played teams off the park with football not seen in the PL by a side in their first season in the PL.

I've spoke with numerous other fans, including Villa and Liverpool fans on my holiday in Cyprus, and they said they appluded Swansea off the pitch because it was simply a joy to watch them play. Now I know they don't speak for very fan of their club and indeed the country, but when a team like Swansea are able to play the way they do and be successful as a result of it, its going to get plaudits and rightly it should.

Norwich did tremendously well last year. Everyone tipped them and Swansea to go down but both defied the odds and stayed up comfortably. The thing is, when Swansea play the way they do and play teams off the park and make them look silly at times, they are going to get the accolades and appreciation because they are better to watch and more memorable than Norwich. Doesn't mean Norwich shouldn't get plaudits, they have and quite rightly too. But Swansea have got a brand of football that is one of its kind in the PL, pretty hard to fault them really and this season they have continued to play the same way and have picked up some magnificent results. They are getting the play forward more quickly I may add under Laudrop, but honestly I just love watching Swansea and I can see them challenging for the 8th/9th/10th place spots. Smile

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Post by Smirnoffpriest Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:00 pm

It's worse than that Liam, Swansea almost ceased to exist the same season they were 1 game from dropping out of the league. They then got promoted 3 times in 4 years (or something similar), then spent 3 years or so in the Championship before getting into the Prem.

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Post by Thomond Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:23 pm

I think England's chances of beating Spain rose significantly with that magnificent draw v Ukraine. They will be quaking in their boots as will the Germans......

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Post by Crimey Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:26 pm

Spain only just beat Georgia in their last game.

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Post by Thomond Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:30 pm

Yep but they still won, it was an odd lineup though, some players playing out of position.


If this result v Ukraine is considered a great one, then Ireland's one v Kazakhstan is probably as good.

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Post by Liam Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:14 pm

Crimey wrote:Spain only just beat Georgia in their last game.

Yup and have just defended the Euro's and are current world champions, poor point really.

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Post by Crimey Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:33 pm

I was pointing out that maybe England could give Spain a game as a country as poor as Georgia can in a competitive game.

I wasn't suggesting that England are the better international side, only that it's not totally unrealistic to suggest England can beat Spain.

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Post by Thomond Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:37 pm

Nothing is totally unrealisticf though. Is it likely? Nope is the answer. England will never be truely competitive on the world stage until they recognise the problems that exist in the game over there and some fans just seem to want to block it out and pretend everything is grand.

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Post by Liam Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:48 pm

Crimey wrote:I was pointing out that maybe England could give Spain a game as a country as poor as Georgia can in a competitive game.

I wasn't suggesting that England are the better international side, only that it's not totally unrealistic to suggest England can beat Spain.

Well Spain dominated the game and won, even though it wasn't 5-0 like most people expect from Spain but Spain don't tend to score 2's and 3's really.

Sure, anyone can beat anyone but it seems we go around in circles with England. All of a sudden it seems people feel like they've done wonders since the euro's, but they haven't. They played an average Ukraine side and just about got a draw (Although they had plenty of chances) and now they can give Spain a game. Wasn't long ago I was watching probably the most one sided 1/4 final in internationals i've ever seen, only for that side to be made quite ordinary by Spain in the final, even before the red card. Now, England can give Spain a good game because Georgia only lost 1-0. Come on now.

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