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Yuvraj Singh's comeback - sentiment over common sense?

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Fists of Fury
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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 3:11 pm

A lot is being made in India of Yuvraj's fairytale return to fitness and Indian colours.

But there are no logical grounds on which he should be in the squad. He hasn't faced a single delivery in a match situation since going through such a tough ordeal, and has said that he only feels ready to play in T20. Surely he should be easing back in through domestic cricket and getting back into form before playing international cricket.

Part of why I argue this is for his own sake. I see it as highly unlikely that he can succeed in the World T20 without any cricket behind him whatsoever in near enough 12 months. What happens then?


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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 11 Sep 2012, 3:26 pm

2 overs for 14 so far for him vs NZ, so nothing spectacular. If I was India I'd have wanted to see him play domestically, but if he can produce the goods, good on him.
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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 11 Sep 2012, 3:37 pm

Not sure I agree, Shelsey.

He could have eased back in to it at a lower level, and that would perhaps have been best from purely a cricketing perspective. However, on the flip side, the adulation of thousands of fans in a white hot atmosphere may just be the tonic he needs after such tough times.

It is more than just sentiment, it is a great symbol of hope to many cancer sufferers around the world. That, surely, is of greater importance.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 3:49 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:
It is more than just sentiment, it is a great symbol of hope to many cancer sufferers around the world. That, surely, is of greater importance.

That can all be done in time. This tournament is about winning a trophy for India.


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Post by msp83 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 4:00 pm

I believe its a bit of a gamble taken by the selectors. If Yuvraj comes off, then there is nothing like it, he adds so much to the balance of the India limited overs side. T-20 would be the easiest format for Yuvraj to make a come back. Ideally it would have been great had played a few matches at the lower level to ease his way back to the side, but we don't live in an ideal world. Yusuf Pathan or Ravindra Jadeja haven't done anything significant so that they could have a better claim over that all-rounder slot and no new youngster has been banging down the selectorial door either.
A bit of an emotional call arguably, but one worth the risk I believe.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 4:14 pm

I agree with you about the alternatives not creating a commanding case, although I would still go with Jadeja (been good in T20 and less good in ODIs).

I'd actually say that India shouldn't need an all-rounder though: Sehwag, Gambhir, Kohli, Sharma, Raina, Dhoni, I. Pathan, Ashwin, Zaheer, Ojha (anyone but Harbhajan, and Chawla hasn't created a strong case), Balaji would have plenty of batting as well as five front-line bowlers and three or four part-timers.

Without wanting to sound cold-hearted I'd question whether Yuvraj would be playing if he was coming back from knee surgery instead of cancer. I don't in any way want to belittle his ordeal, but just think that this is a cricket tournament more than anything and that a player who has been through what he's been through and hasn't yet tested himself is a massive gamble.

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Post by msp83 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 5:06 pm

Rohit Sharma has been in absolutely dreadful form, and his temprament at the highest level to bring about consistent performance is very doubtful.
Jadeja is not good enough to play big shorts consistently and so is less effective batting down the order. In the last T-20I WC, his bowling was absolutely thrashed.

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Post by msp83 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 6:05 pm

Watched Yuvraj's knock today Shelsey? I think he showed why the selectors are kind of justified in taking the gamble. One innings is not enough to pass a judgement, but it has proved the gamble itself was worth it.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 6:36 pm

msp83 wrote:Watched Yuvraj's knock today Shelsey? I think he showed why the selectors are kind of justified in taking the gamble. One innings is not enough to pass a judgement, but it has proved the gamble itself was worth it.

thumbsup I was pleasantly surprised by how cleanly he hit the ball. You're also correct in saying that we shouldn't pass judgement on one innings though.

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Post by msp83 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 7:52 pm

Lets see how he would go about in the world event.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:05 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:I agree with you about the alternatives not creating a commanding case, although I would still go with Jadeja (been good in T20 and less good in ODIs).

I'd actually say that India shouldn't need an all-rounder though: Sehwag, Gambhir, Kohli, Sharma, Raina, Dhoni, I. Pathan, Ashwin, Zaheer, Ojha (anyone but Harbhajan, and Chawla hasn't created a strong case), Balaji would have plenty of batting as well as five front-line bowlers and three or four part-timers.

Without wanting to sound cold-hearted I'd question whether Yuvraj would be playing if he was coming back from knee surgery instead of cancer. I don't in any way want to belittle his ordeal, but just think that this is a cricket tournament more than anything and that a player who has been through what he's been through and hasn't yet tested himself is a massive gamble.
Sharma? Has a strong case? Was utterly awful in SL.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue 11 Sep 2012, 8:46 pm

I'll admit I didn't see a ball of the SL series (Sky don't show Sri Lanka home series unless England are playing), but in the wider scheme of things I think Sharma's a pretty good player.

If not him there are plenty of others in India who go well in IPLs or have done well in the past for India - Tiwary, Uthappa, Rayudu off the top of my head, who I would have wanted to pick ahead of Yuvraj.

But hats off to Yuvi - it looks like he's worked really hard, and as I said, I was surprised how cleanly he was able to hit the ball after so long out of the game

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 12 Sep 2012, 8:44 am

Just don't understand all this hype over Rohit. What has he ever done at international level?

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 9:15 am

Nothing Shanky, just nothing. He did score a few runs in Australia in the 07-8 tour, and when he comes off he could look a worldbeater. He has the shots, seems to have that extra bit of time that great players have, but the temprament isn't good enough to sustain it all together for more than 1 good show in 10 or 15 opportunities. They say he could even make getting out look silken, might as well do it in the nets to entertain, not on field.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 9:30 am

Just looked at Rohit's stats and nothing special at all - 85 matches, 2 100s and an average of 30.

Strange then that last winter some commentators were saying he's a better player than Kohli whose played 90 ODIs, has 13 100s and averages 52.

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 9:45 am

Suresh Raina and Rohit Sharma are the pampered boys of Indian cricket. I remember Rahul Dravid's comeback to the India ODI side after he was dropped in 2007. Think it was following the world T-20I where the 2 struggled with the short balls. For tough pitches and tough challengess like South Africa and Australia Dravid was recalled, he did alright, then was promptly dropped for the Rohits and the Rainas when flat roads of the sub-continents became available. Raina has at least developed into a decent ODI batsman, but Rohit has a fair way to go.

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 12 Sep 2012, 10:12 am

Shelsey93 wrote:Just looked at Rohit's stats and nothing special at all - 85 matches, 2 100s and an average of 30.

Strange then that last winter some commentators were saying he's a better player than Kohli whose played 90 ODIs, has 13 100s and averages 52.
He is not better than Kohli in any way.

He is better than the other Indian youngsters in terms of the time though. He has that extra time, as that msp said but thats all that he's got. No temperament, no technique. Head constantly falls over to the off side while trying to play towards the on line. Also plays flat footed drives to full length deliveries. Doesn't come forward. Even if set, often has brainfades and chucks it away all too often.

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Post by Gerry SA Wed 12 Sep 2012, 9:09 pm

Anyone thinking that Kohli is better than Sharma has never watched the latter play when he's a his very best.

Whilst working in India I've seen him play in their domestic tournaments and his talent can be seen a mile off.

Watching him is like poetry, the kid is an artist.

The difference between Kolhi and Sharma, Raina, Yuvraj etc is he more at ease with his mental state.

He doesn't over think. Sharma is the opposite.

Mental strength Kohli wins hands down over all of India's young brigade along with probably Pujara.

In pure talent Sharma and Rahane are better than Kohli and Pujara.

But as famously said talent alone gets you no where!

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 9:15 pm

Gerry SA wrote:Anyone thinking that Kohli is better than Sharma has never watched the latter play when he's a his very best.

Whilst working in India I've seen him play in their domestic tournaments and his talent can be seen a mile off.

Watching him is like poetry, the kid is an artist.

The difference between Kolhi and Sharma, Raina, Yuvraj etc is he more at ease with his mental state.

He doesn't over think. Sharma is the opposite.

Mental strength Kohli wins hands down over all of India's young brigade along with probably Pujara.

In pure talent Sharma and Rahane are better than Kohli and Pujara.

But as famously said talent alone gets you no where!
Many believed Mark Ramprakash could be a batting legend for England as they did with Graeme Hick. Vinod Kambli is considered a loss to Indian cricket. Its not about the artistic ability of the batsman, its about the runs he scores. The way they do become important in the case of successful players such as Hashim Amla and VVS Laxman. Give me a Graeme Smith or a Mike Hussey over all the Rohits of the world, anyday, all year!!.

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Sep 2012, 9:17 pm

Kohli for me is way ahead of Rohit, he has scored the runs at the highest level, has been a superb player in ODI cricket and has become integral in the other formats as well. And its not that he plays in the workman like mode either.

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Post by msp83 Wed 19 Sep 2012, 6:31 pm

Yuvraj shows his value in the first game of the T-20I wc, 18 runs at almost a run a ball, and made up for that unconverted start with a spell of 3-24 in his 4 overs.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 19 Sep 2012, 9:08 pm

msp83 wrote:Yuvraj shows his value in the first game of the T-20I wc, 18 runs at almost a run a ball, and made up for that unconverted start with a spell of 3-24 in his 4 overs.

Didn't think he looked quite right with the bat (nor did any of the others apart from Kohli), but good again with the ball.

He is an all-rounder and should be classed as such. Having said that I'd still like India to play the extra bowler - 7th bat is unnecessary, and the extra bowler provides a good cushion if (as is quite likely) one of the others gets tonked.

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Sep 2012, 5:31 am

But shelsey, as I said, there are not many quality bowling options available. There is no point in playing a 5th bowler for the sake of it. But then again Playing Rohit Sharma as the aditional batsman is more or less on similar lines.
Perhaps they should think about the lower order batting all-rounder who plays for essex to come in at 8 with Pathan moving up to 7.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:31 pm

Yuvraj's return is purely emotional......and it's premature to throw him in...in a high stake world cup.

his few wkts and 20s and 30s so far notwithstanding......there's gotta be a procss of rehabilitation, recuperation, playing oneself back into form and fitness...that's gotta be followed.

But the captain is weak.....he cannot put his foot down when zonal / quota/ emotional or other types of favourites are thrown in....

because he is using his strength to tradeoff people like Raina, Rohit, Balaaji.......who othrwise would struggle to be in for the lack of consistency.....he has to bear Sehwag and Yuvrajs imposed on him.

Well....you can't win major tournaments if you carry 30 to 40% subsidized players


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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:37 pm

So Raina has to be out, Rohit has to be out(I too agree), Sehwag and Gambhir have to go, and Yuvraj will have to wait.
Then?

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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:15 pm

msp83 wrote:So Raina has to be out, Rohit has to be out(I too agree), Sehwag and Gambhir have to go, and Yuvraj will have to wait.
Then?

--Raina can be left in....Rohit's gotta go.....addtional bowler replaces him......with Pathan and Aswin at 7 and 8.

--Yuvraj's gotta wait.....Tiwari plays

--Atleast one of Sehwag or Gambhir goes.......Rahane plays

--the other of Sehwag or Gambhir also goes if he doesn't deliver and Ambapati Rayadu( the brightest star this IPL) gets in....

this will be meritorious, procedural, consistent and a long term solution.........inpsite of being a bit unpopular and ruffling some feathers initially

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:36 pm

Rayudu haven't proved himself consistent enough to merit national selection. IPL performances can only mean so much. He hasn't been a regular opener either. Besides its a global tournament and throwing him in at the deep end wouldn't have been a very good idea.
Yuvraj even in this not fully match fit stage showed he could hit the ball cleanly in the New Zealand match, and he's a much better bowler than Tiwary is.
The additional bowler is another problem area. Vinay Kumar is not good enough, Ishant Umesh are better in the longer format and need careful managing, Aaron is not fit, PK has lost his form.
The only other option is Harbhajan, and all that he can do is to fire it in fast and falt and cannot be expected to take wickets. Yuvraj could be a better bet.
But said that I am not completely opposed to playing Harbhajan in place of Rohit Sharma, with Irfan moving up to 7. That would give India a batting lineup with power down to 9, and Harbhajan's containing role could be put to good use

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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:52 pm

Rayudu haven't proved himself consistent enough to merit national selection. IPL performances can only mean so much. He hasn't been a regular opener either. Besides its a global tournament and throwing him in at the deep end wouldn't have been a very good idea.

Rayadu has been solid and consistent in IPL.
and IPL is all that is played other than the T20 world cup that matters to judge the calibre...abd IPL these days prepares palyers temperamentally with enouhg intenrational stars and high pressure situations.


Yuvraj even in this not fully match fit stage showed he could hit the ball cleanly in the New Zealand match, and he's a much better bowler than Tiwary is.

Yeah...maybe...it's also about process, procedures, consistency in intenrational selections....when you pick people returning cold from injury and no match practise...remember what happend to Zaheer in T1 in England, and RPS on the same tour and how the whole tour went downhill.....
for consistent results.......consistent processes gotta be followed

The additional bowler is another problem area. Vinay Kumar is not good enough, Ishant Umesh are better in the longer format and need careful managing, Aaron is not fit, PK has lost his form.

Dinda, Awaana and Sami Ahemd are all good...fit...140+...proven themselves in IPL and the WI-A tour thereafter.
even Bhuvan Kumar at 135kph did well in IPL, WI-A and the India A game against NZ yesterday...

sadly like Tendulkar's captaincy days...Dhonis is also too reluctant to try new potential......and so he keeps going back to Balaaji and RP singh types...well past their prime.

The only other option is Harbhajan, and all that he can do is to fire it in fast and falt and cannot be expected to take wickets. Yuvraj could be a better bet.
But said that I am not completely opposed to playing Harbhajan in place of Rohit Sharma, with Irfan moving up to 7. That would give India a batting lineup with power down to 9, and Harbhajan's containing role could be put to good use

Bhajji has to prove himsefl also.......he did nothing in Ranji or in Ranji one dayers or in IPL.......he is cannon fodder....and goes back to the syndrome of Dhoni wanting tried tested in his comfort zone players.......even if they are well past their prime, returning from injury or in bad form......

if they wanted a spinner batting allrounder.....Jalaj Saxena should have been who gave a good account of himsefl in WI-A series in ODIs

If selection follows processes, procedures and doesn't make exceptions....picks on merit and form.....it helps tremendously in the long run.Dhoni-Srikkanth era has been anything but the above in italics....
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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Sep 2012, 8:27 pm

I don't understand how you attribute every selection to Dhoni. Yes captain has a say and Dhoni has used his position in some cases, but at the end of the day its about the selection committee. Greater responsibility is with Srikanth and co I believe.
But among the bowlers you mentioned, I believe Dinda has earned squad oppourtunity for himself through consistent domestic performances. But his game time show hasn't been that good and hence him not making it to the playing 11 is quite understandable. Shami Ahemmed's A team selection itself wasn't quite expected, he hasn't done anything great at the domestic level, having a decent Ranji season shouldn't give an automatic pass to the national side. B Kumar doesn't have the pace to trouble quality international batting lineups and Jalaj Saxena again has only been average and by no means spectacular.
For understanding the nonsensical ways of functioning of the Srikanth panel just look at the NZ and WI touring A teams.
Yuvraj is a very key player particularly in the limited over formats with his all-round skills, and unlike the case in test matches the demands on the body are far less. Considering his importance to the side I think the selectors are justified in gambling on him. To their credit that has come off so far.
Too much process driven rigidity might prove to be a problem at some stage.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Sep 2012, 8:47 pm

I don't understand how you attribute every selection to Dhoni. Yes captain has a say and Dhoni has used his position in some cases, but at the end of the day its about the selection committee. Greater responsibility is with Srikanth and co I believe.


Srikanth is mascot of CSK...his son gets paid from CSK.....BCCI chief owns CSK..Dhoni captains CSK....Dhoni as the saleable captain of brand CSK and with his CSK bosses / stake holders running BCCI and selection comittee...gets a lot of thisngs his way
and that's how inconsistent, bizzare, out of order selection keep coming back...
Dhoni doesn't get 100%...but gets a lot because of the above equation

But among the bowlers you mentioned, I believe Dinda has earned squad oppourtunity for himself through consistent domestic performances. But his game time show hasn't been that good and hence him not making it to the playing 11 is quite understandable. Shami Ahemmed's A team selection itself wasn't quite expected, he hasn't done anything great at the domestic level, having a decent Ranji season shouldn't give an automatic pass to the national side.

solid Ranji season is just a start...then there is a network of current players and ex-cricketes( aakash chopra, WV Raman, Siva, B. Arun, Razdan, Vengsarkar, Sandhu...and may others ) who when they see a international potential on the Ranji circuit...talk...word spreads on network on who are exceptional talents are .....then the selectors especially keep an eye on those players......and that's the route Awaana, Sami and Dharekar came......amaranth, Hirwani were specially monitoring these guys in some Ranji and Duleep tropy games.

B Kumar doesn't have the pace to trouble quality international batting lineups

he is on an average 5 kph faster than Balaaji and Pathan

and Jalaj Saxena again has only been average and by no means spectacular.

he was good enough in Ranji as a spin bolwing allrounder to make it to India-A
whihc means he is on the fringes of India selections
and he gave a good account of himself in Ind-A games in WI
he went throuhg the ranks, channels and processes and passed every test put in front of him....and is ripe for selections and first in the queue ( or aught ot be)

For understanding the nonsensical ways of functioning of the Srikanth panel just look at the NZ and WI touring A teams.


I agree a number of selections on A tours as well as national side have been baffling....but doesn't mean all the selections are nonsense.
I would say about 30 to 40% selections are subsidized, out of order / based on not strict merit....but the other 60 to 70% are meritorious

Yuvraj is a very key player particularly in the limited over formats with his all-round skills, and unlike the case in test matches the demands on the body are far less. Considering his importance to the side I think the selectors are justified in gambling on him. To their credit that has come off so far.
Too much process driven rigidity might prove to be a problem at some stage.

Gambling is done with thought/ logic / rationale......with a risk , high return assesment cold calculations.

None of that was done.....Srikkanth is too fickle to even think that long.....pure emotionalism...no respect for processes....no sit throuhg assesment of consequences.
It's neithr good for Yuv...nor for the team

they should have compassionately sat with him explained that he is in their next 5 years plan.......and they will support his rehabilitation and bring him back for eg against Eng in ODIs.

None of that balanced rationalism seems to have occured....but pure emotionalism overflowing...a grateful BCCI showing loyalty and gratitude to their world cup star...but the populist, short-sighted way
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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Sep 2012, 8:56 pm

Jalaj Saxena averages 30 with the bat in FC cricket and has 58 wickets from 41 matches at over 40 and a strike rate touching 87. His T-20 strike is 87 and bowling average 26 with an economy rate above 7.
Not even good enough for an A team spot.

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Sep 2012, 9:04 pm

Shami Ahmed has played all of 9 first class matches and he has not set the world on fire in those, 34 wickets at 27. Those are good figures, but lets see what he's all about in the next season. Remember Deepak Chahar? Unlike Saxena, Ahmed could be a national prospect in the future.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Sep 2012, 9:44 pm

msp83 wrote:Shami Ahmed has played all of 9 first class matches and he has not set the world on fire in those, 34 wickets at 27. Those are good figures, but lets see what he's all about in the next season. Remember Deepak Chahar? Unlike Saxena, Ahmed could be a national prospect in the future.

we have to undertsand how these otherwise nonedescript guys playing in Mouffsil small towns Ranji games with no TV or radio commentary coverage for sevral years get on selectors radar screens ?? ( OK there is some TV these days covering big sides Ranji games..but only a small fraction)......

solid Ranji season is just a start...but stats is not all.
There is a network of current players and ex-cricketes( aakash chopra, WV Raman, Siva, B. Arun, Razdan, Vengsarkar, Sandhu, TS Sekhar, Sunil Valson...and many others currently on that network ) who when they spot a international potential on the Ranji circuit...talk...word spreads on network on who are exceptional talents are .....then the selectors especially keep an eye on those players......and that's the route Awaana, Sami and Dharekar came......amaranth, Hirwani were specially monitoring these guys in some Ranji and Duleep tropy games.

for eg. In 90s I heard Srinath being talked about much before he broke throuhg on this network....as someone who was express and hurting average ranji batters with his speed.

similarly Sami Ahmed with just one season got talked about by these Old-boys network...as one who made the ranji level batsmen hurried and got it to rise off a length...and Dharekar as one who had the ball on a proverbial string....and they got under the scanner...and impressed.

Chahar was reportedly like ashish winston Zaidi...a medium pacer...who got the right conditions on the right wintery morning day, hit the right rythm swinging on banana trajectories..against an inept Ranji side...and ran throuhg them.
But he was never reported as a long term potential........Sami ahmed defnitely is....awaana is....Dinda is..
harshad patel and Bhuna kumar are below Sami, Dinda and Awaana as the 2nd tier potentials

Rituraj singh of Rajasthan has been picked for NZ-A tour........he ain't an all condition potential...more like Praveen Kumar type swing bowlers....as is Blawinder Sandhu Jr. of Mumbai...........i would rate these as 3rd iter potentials

and Pankaj Singh somewhere between 2nd and 3rd tier...unfortunate not to have played for India so far.
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Post by msp83 Fri 21 Sep 2012, 7:52 am

If people like Jalaj Suxena make it to the squad through the word of the network, I think there is a serious reason not to trust the word.
But I think his selection was more a case of acknowledging MP's 2nd place show in the Ranji trophy and since TP Sudhindra couldn't have been selected, they just went for Jalaj. Nowhere near good enough.
As I said, I agree on Shami Ahmed being a potential, but he isn't ready yet for international cricket in my view. Even someone like Ishant Sharma should have spend a couple of seasons at the domestic level so that he could have a better idea about his body and what works for him with the ball.

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Post by msp83 Fri 21 Sep 2012, 7:53 am

In that context the Dada Sourav led panel's suggestion to split the Ranji trophy into 3 groups ensuring at least 8 games for all domestic sides is an excellent one and good that the BCCI have accepted that.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 21 Sep 2012, 8:46 am

msp83 wrote:If people like Jalaj Suxena make it to the squad through the word of the network, I think there is a serious reason not to trust the word.
But I think his selection was more a case of acknowledging MP's 2nd place show in the Ranji trophy and since TP Sudhindra couldn't have been selected, they just went for Jalaj. Nowhere near good enough.
As I said, I agree on Shami Ahmed being a potential, but he isn't ready yet for international cricket in my view. Even someone like Ishant Sharma should have spend a couple of seasons at the domestic level so that he could have a better idea about his body and what works for him with the ball.

Jalaj saxena is in the 30% category......subsidized / quota/ favoritism....but once give the undue break he delivered.

Look it's the sytsem of netowork that found the Tendulkars, Srinaths, Ganguly, Dravids, Zaheers, Laxmans....its a system that works......has it's flaws......but it's more good ( 70% good) and less bad.

Ishant was good when picked....and he delivered against Aus in Aus and In India...and then he fell apart under the defensive cataincy of Dhoni.

There is a number of attacking bowlers gone lame under Dhoni line / length...choke runs styled defensive handling of bowlers.........Sreesanth, Ishant, and Bhajji the prime examples
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Post by KP_fan Fri 21 Sep 2012, 9:06 am

Meanwhile Irani Trophy started today......and one of my favourites and much improved first class cricketer Binny plucked out a couple of wickets with his gentle medium pace in the morning session

I have observed Stuart Binny's growth over last two seasons.......more maturity / responsibility with the bat( his primary trait)..and become almost like a Ganguly in his prime as a bowler...which may not sound great, but is very handy in the Indian compositon where every other change bowler is a spinner, barring Kohli whose medium pace is actually slower than kumble's spin Sad

I hope he delivers with the bat too and comes in reckoning for atleast ODIs

Harmeet and Ojha bowling in tandem........but none gotten a wicket so far.

Ranji's most succesful batsman from the last season..Robin holding the innings together for Rajasthan
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Post by msp83 Fri 21 Sep 2012, 9:45 am

If only Binny's pace could have been of international standards. But I agree, he has shown massive improvement over the last couple of seasons, and if his bowling continues to improve and batting retain the consistency, being an all-rounder, he might just be coming into the national spotlight.
Now on the network. VVS Laxman and Rahul Dravid progressed through the age groups and did well in domestic cricket for more than one season before they were selected for India. Sourav Ganguly too had 2 decent Ranji seasons before he was first picked and after being sidelined did well again for 2-3 seasons to find his way back to the national side, although all kinds of obnoxious theories were thrown around when he was reselected in 1996.
The old player's network may have played a role in identifying some of the tallents, but they did well consistently at the domestic level before being picked.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 21 Sep 2012, 11:14 am

Yadav running throuhg the middle and lower middle order of Rjasthan....too hot to handle...all 7 wickets gone to seamers so far.
Bisht doing himself no harm...by standing firm and closing in on a 100 after two back to back solid Ranji seaosn and in full view of selectors today.....
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Post by KP_fan Fri 21 Sep 2012, 11:56 am

Like the Irani tropy of last year.......this year again Yadav's 90mph pace proves too hot for Rajastani batsmen to handle barring Bisht.....who the selectors must make a not of for a middle order slot
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Post by msp83 Fri 21 Sep 2012, 1:29 pm

Bisht was unfortunate not to get more chances with the A side. He looks a determined cricketer.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 22 Sep 2012, 6:52 am

Indeed msp! Baffled to see Menaria in the A squad ahead of him.

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Post by msp83 Sat 22 Sep 2012, 8:04 am

Shanky there is something about Ashok Menaria that I like, but I would have had him playing the domestic season opener and Bisht would have gone to New Zealand.
Menaria and Manish Pandey are 2 cricketers I have high hopes for.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 22 Sep 2012, 8:17 am

Manish, I agree. Menaria doesn't look Test standard to me. Seems to be a Jadeja to me. Chand looks like a special player to me. I like S Yadav and Mandeep too. Bist should have been in NZ, as should Rahane.

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Post by msp83 Sat 22 Sep 2012, 8:20 am

The thing with Menaria is his temprament, there is a look of confidence about him and he scores big in the big matches. Not quite ready for tests or even the limited overs internationals, but I have a feeling he would go places after a couple more seasons.
Mumbai's Suryakumar Yadav is someone I would like to see more opportunities given at the A level, and I hope MI would also give him more opportunities in the IPL.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 22 Sep 2012, 9:58 am

Rahane and Vijay give a solid start........Rajasthan with their gentle medium pacers........in the absense of Rituraj ( on Ind_a duty) and Pankaj singh ( dunno where)...and lack of any quality spinner........they don't look like getting a wicket.

India also should look beyond Vijay, Mukund, and Dhawan when choosing their A and ROI sides

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Post by KP_fan Sat 22 Sep 2012, 10:07 am

After a great IPL....rayadu shows his finishing prowess in 2 out of 2 games again NZ-A unbeaten at the end.
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Post by msp83 Sat 22 Sep 2012, 12:05 pm

KPF, who would you see as potential opening reserve beyond Rahane? I would rather have Rahane lower down the order as he hasn't been regularly opening for his Ranji side, but it seems team India looks to him as the reserve/replacement opener at the moment.
Mukund and Vijay, although haven't been massive international successes, have terrific numbers and great consistency at the domestic level, particularly so in Mukund's case. No other domestic opener has been that consistent. The other contenter at least in his view is good old Wasim Jaffer, but he's just not good enough and is in the very wrong side of 30 to make a national come back.
Unmukt Chand will have to first establish himself and prove good enough in terms of temprament and technique for the longer format before being considered for India. Aakash Chopra is getting on a bit too much in terms of age and he doesn't have enough strokes to get going at the highest level. The other opener who has been doing well at the domestic level and is not too old is Rajasthan's Vineet Saxena But I doubt whether he's international class.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 22 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm

I would have Rahane replacing Gambhir against England, for starters. Chand and Mukund, for me, depend on how they go on in NZ with the A team. I think performances for the A side are a better guide than Ranji performances. Vijay is not on the A tour to NZ but has just scored a big hundred in the Irani Trophy and I believe has the talent but needs to show the sort of consistency that has eluded him over the last year and a half. The Duleep Trophy will be held before the Ranji Trophy this time around which is a wise move as I think the Duleep Trophy is a better guide to selection.

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Post by msp83 Sat 22 Sep 2012, 12:33 pm

Chand is a fine tallent but he has to first establish himself at the domestic level before being taken on for higher responsibilities.
Mukund has a superb record at the domestic level, but he has to do more work on his technique before being recalled to the national side. He had a pretty poor tour of the West Indies with the A side.

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