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Bryan Redpath...why?

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LondonTiger
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Post by Hood83 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 8:58 pm

I could probably leave it at that, but as it's my first post I guess I should qualify this.

As far as I can tell, Redpath is an at best mediocre, at worst, awful coach. He took a perfectly solid Gloucester team and reinforced in them mediocrity. For some baffling reason, he was then snapped up by Sale, to impart his particular brand of tripe on them.

So, my question is - How is this man a coach of a Premiership team? It's a genuine question, and I guess one Gloucester fans can best answer for me. Maybe I've done him a disservice, maybe he coached a particular player or skill exceptionally well, or had an eye for young or foreign talent to bring through. Or perhaps he was an innovator, constantly seeking out the 1% improvements.

As far as I can see, he gave Gloucester one thing in spades. Inconsistency. I know they've played tough teams, but he looks like he's already addressed this with Sale. He's got them playing consistently terrible.

I'm very happy to be proven wrong, but I think shuffling a coach like Redpath around the Prem does nothing for anyone.

P.S. - Full disclosure, but for some reason I've always thought the guy was an idiot, so again, could be my inherent bias.

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Post by Hood83 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 9:23 pm

I guess it is just me then...

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Post by HongKongCherry Mon 17 Sep 2012, 10:10 pm

Despite the manner of his departure I still like and rate Brush. He was given a very tough task at Glaws to galvanise a team already in free fall from the Dean Ryan era and to significantly cut the wage bill. He oversaw a 3rd place finish, with only a dodgy piece of referring stopping us getting to the final, as well as winning the LV on the 3rd time of asking.

Unfortunately, something went wrong mid way through last season. There are lots of rumours doing the rounds in Glaws, such as he had no say in who we signed. One thing that is clear is that he didn't enjoy the role of DoR and being responsible for every aspect as well as coaching. Whilst he is DoR at Sale, Diamond is taking all the commercial responsibility.

He brings a very strong and honest work ethic to a team. He likes his team to play with flair, but also to play sensibly and kick for position. I think Sale's 6th place finish slightly flattered them last year, due to Glaws' free fall and the likes of Bath and Irish underperforming too. So despite all the signings this year was always going to be a transitional year for Sale. I have every faith he will do well at Sale, but I also firmly believe he truly had taken Glaws as far as he could.


Last edited by HongKongCherry on Mon 17 Sep 2012, 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by TJ1 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 10:12 pm

I do have hpes for him as an eventual scottish coach. we shall see. Its early in his coaching career

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Post by beshocked Tue 18 Sep 2012, 8:24 am

HongKongCherry wrote:Despite the manner of his departure I still like and rate Brush. He was given a very tough task at Glaws to galvanise a team already in free fall from the Dean Ryan era and to significantly cut the wage bill. He oversaw a 3rd place finish, with only a dodgy piece of referring stopping us getting to the final, as well as winning the LV on the 3rd time of asking.

Unfortunately, something went wrong mid way through last season. There are lots of rumours doing the rounds in Glaws, such as he had no say in who we signed. One thing that is clear is that he didn't enjoy the role of DoR and being responsible for every aspect as well as coaching. Whilst he is DoR at Sale, Diamond is taking all the commercial responsibility.

He brings a very strong and honest work ethic to a team. He likes his team to play with flair, but also to play sensibly and kick for position. I think Sale's 6th place finish slightly flattered them last year, due to Glaws' free fall and the likes of Bath and Irish underperforming too. So despite all the signings this year was always going to be a transitional year for Sale. I have every faith he will do well at Sale, but I also firmly believe he truly had taken Glaws as far as he could.

Sorry HKC what is this dodging piece of referring which you think stopped you get to the final? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

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Post by HongKongCherry Tue 18 Sep 2012, 8:50 am

I thought you may pick up on that!!! Sharples was clearly on his feet at that ruck - we exceeded our expectations that season so it's not sour grapes as ultimately I would've bitten your hand off for a 3rd place finish at the start of that season. It was a dodgy decision, but we had ample opportunity to try for a drop goal, yet we never attempted it, so it was in our hands.
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Post by beshocked Tue 18 Sep 2012, 9:04 am

HKC we missed 5 kicks that day from guess who? Whistle

There are always refereeing decisions we question.

Agree with you about Redpath. He's not all bad. Also agree that Sale were flattered. I really fear for them in the HC.

I wonder what Richie Gray is thinking.

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 18 Sep 2012, 9:29 am

sounds like some retrospective adjudication is needed on the 2010/11 season.

Sarcens received a shocking homer decision from the ref andrew small (is that his real name, is he really related to James Short).

as the victims of this heinous crime, Gloucester are re-instated to the Premiership final to play Leicester. As we are unable to replay the match - the statisticians look up in th erecord books for similar games - finding of course the the 2007 final.

Leicester therefore win the final 44-10 and are declared champions.

Sounds fair to me.

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Post by HERSH Tue 18 Sep 2012, 9:33 am

I agree, why indeed.

IMO his living off his name as a player and not as a coach.
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Post by beshocked Tue 18 Sep 2012, 9:42 am

LondonTiger wrote:sounds like some retrospective adjudication is needed on the 2010/11 season.

Sarcens received a shocking homer decision from the ref andrew small (is that his real name, is he really related to James Short).

as the victims of this heinous crime, Gloucester are re-instated to the Premiership final to play Leicester. As we are unable to replay the match - the statisticians look up in th erecord books for similar games - finding of course the the 2007 final.

Leicester therefore win the final 44-10 and are declared champions.

Sounds fair to me.

While we are at it why don't we reverse the Leicester-Saints result because Manu Tuilagi got a yellow instead of a straight red?

What would have happened in a Saints-Gloucester final?

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 18 Sep 2012, 9:53 am

Ah yes but that did not affect the match Very Happy

but in you scenario - both Leicester and Saracens would have appealed and there would have been two matches played at the same time at Twickenham.

alessana would have scored 3 tries sadly against gloucester so would have counted to saints.

Brits would have got very confused as to which way Sarries were playing and run the wrong way every time conceding 10 5m scrums all resulting in penalty tries to tigers as he would also scrummage between Chuter and Castro.

all told the score would be Tigers 70 - Saints - 35 - Sarries 27 - Gloucester 24.

tigers, again, the champions.

Leicester - you knowe it makes sense Wink


(ps rewriting of history also awards the 07 and 09 HECs to Tigers)

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Post by beshocked Tue 18 Sep 2012, 9:59 am

How does that make sense? Are you seriously telling me that playing with 14 men for over 40 minutes wouldn't make a difference?

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Post by HongKongCherry Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:03 am

LondonTiger wrote:sounds like some retrospective adjudication is needed on the 2010/11 season.

Sarcens received a shocking homer decision from the ref andrew small (is that his real name, is he really related to James Short).

as the victims of this heinous crime, Gloucester are re-instated to the Premiership final to play Leicester. As we are unable to replay the match - the statisticians look up in th erecord books for similar games - finding of course the the 2007 final.

Leicester therefore win the final 44-10 and are declared champions.

Sounds fair to me.

No, no. That's why I'm not sour. I'd rather lose just to Sarries than be thumped by Tigers in the final again Crying or Very sad
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Post by LondonTiger Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:10 am

Beshocked,

try and take a light hearted post in a light hearted way.

As to that day - no i am not sure playing with 14 men would have changed the result. For perhaps that day only, toby flood was exemplary with his tactical kicking and Saints created nothing at all. The last time Tigers had a player sent off (Julian White - for a clean punch on Sheridan who had thrown two crappy ones first with no penalty) Tigers pulled together and played better.

But who knows.


Oh and a slight correction on what you said earlier - the five missed kicks were shared between Farrell, Goode and Wigglesworth

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Post by yappysnap Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:12 am

What did Dean Ryan do to Glaws anyone?

When ever I see him on Sky he always comes across as one of the more reliable and intelligent pundits. Was he just not coaching material or something? I know that there was a lot of clamor for him to go and coach Wasps and then England as well so he can't have been too bad surely?

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Post by HongKongCherry Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:46 am

yappysnap wrote:What did Dean Ryan do to Glaws anyone?

When ever I see him on Sky he always comes across as one of the more reliable and intelligent pundits. Was he just not coaching material or something? I know that there was a lot of clamor for him to go and coach Wasps and then England as well so he can't have been too bad surely?

He did very well and nearly got us there, but then fell away dramatically even more so than Redpath. He spent an absolute fortune and we were clearly well over the salary cap, as there is no way you can lose 11 players and still be at the cap! His style of coaching was incredibly controlled, so the players had to do exactly as he said, which ultimately led to Lamb leaving the club as he was far too much of a maverick. Our style at the end became incredibly one dimensional and teams worked us out very quickly. But, in general the bulk of his tenure was very good and we won far more than we lost under him.
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Post by Hood83 Tue 18 Sep 2012, 8:47 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:Despite the manner of his departure I still like and rate Brush. He was given a very tough task at Glaws to galvanise a team already in free fall from the Dean Ryan era and to significantly cut the wage bill. He oversaw a 3rd place finish, with only a dodgy piece of referring stopping us getting to the final, as well as winning the LV on the 3rd time of asking.

Unfortunately, something went wrong mid way through last season. There are lots of rumours doing the rounds in Glaws, such as he had no say in who we signed. One thing that is clear is that he didn't enjoy the role of DoR and being responsible for every aspect as well as coaching. Whilst he is DoR at Sale, Diamond is taking all the commercial responsibility.

He brings a very strong and honest work ethic to a team. He likes his team to play with flair, but also to play sensibly and kick for position. I think Sale's 6th place finish slightly flattered them last year, due to Glaws' free fall and the likes of Bath and Irish underperforming too. So despite all the signings this year was always going to be a transitional year for Sale. I have every faith he will do well at Sale, but I also firmly believe he truly had taken Glaws as far as he could.

Thanks HKC. I didn't know about the need to reduce wages, I can see how that may have affected things drastically. I actually think Steve Diamond did a brilliant job as DoR last year, and not just as a result of others failing. He seemed to get Sale playing a very useful, fast-rucking style that suited their smaller forwards. They seem to have gone backwards in this area already, but it's early days.

I've found it very hard to pin down exactly the sort of style Redpath favours, part of the reason I'm unconvinced.

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Post by Hood83 Fri 21 Sep 2012, 11:04 pm

Another loss for Sale. Pitifully bad. I really hope Redpath gets pushed because I am utterly unconvinced he improves this league

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Post by RDW Sat 22 Sep 2012, 10:26 am

Wonder if Richie Gray is regretting his move.....

As a Scotland fan I'm quite concerned because he is an integral part of our team and I don't want him losing all his form and confidence in a rubbish Sale team!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 22 Sep 2012, 10:31 am

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw the score last night. Why he couldn't have gone to a top Aviva side or a top French side I'll never know. Imagine Gray at Quins, Leicester or Northampton.

It was a stupid move, and pretty much all us Scots said it at the time. He'd have been better staying in Glasgow until a top club came calling. I seriously think he's one of the top locks in world rugby. He will not improve at Sale.

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Post by RDW Sat 22 Sep 2012, 10:33 am

There's a get out clause if they don't make hk qualification within 2 seasons - I hope he's got one for relegation too!

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Post by Hood83 Sat 22 Sep 2012, 1:37 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Exactly what I was thinking when I saw the score last night. Why he couldn't have gone to a top Aviva side or a top French side I'll never know. Imagine Gray at Quins, Leicester or Northampton.

It was a stupid move, and pretty much all us Scots said it at the time. He'd have been better staying in Glasgow until a top club came calling. I seriously think he's one of the top locks in world rugby. He will not improve at Sale.

Did he agree to the move before or after Redpath was announced as Head Coach? I think that makes a little difference. Steve Diamond had a small pack playing smart rugby last year- quick rucking, and very competitive at the breakdown with a good understanding of when to attack it or not. In that sense I think it mirrored the Scottish game in focusing on dynamic, aggressive packs rather than attritional set-piece focused ones. If Gray and Vernon had come into that pack playing that way, I think they would have added an excellent extra dimension, particularly Gray's carrying.

As it is, Redpath's utterly baffling approaching to coaching has resulted in a team without any discernible game plan or focus.

You're right though, either way you'd think one of the better teams could have snuck him under the wage cap


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Post by yappysnap Sat 22 Sep 2012, 2:44 pm

I thought Toulouse and Leinster were both interested in him? It is baffling that he went for Sale!

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