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Ryder Cup Pairings

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BlueCoverman
monty junior
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delToro87
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GPB
pedro
McLaren
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Sand
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Alsie
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John Cregan
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Post by John Cregan Tue 18 Sep 2012, 8:01 pm

Ok, as we get closer, maybe it's time to have a look at possible Friday Pairings in the Morning Foursomes and Afternoon Fourballs.

I want to know what YOU think are good pairings, not what you think the Captains will go for.

Here are mine (in order):

Foursomes:

Furyk & Z. Johnson Donald & Westwood
D.Johnson & Duffner Garcia & Rose
Kuchar & Stricker McDowell & Hanson
Woods & Snedeker McIlroy & Poulter

Fourballs:

Bradley & Mickelson Kaymer & Lawrie
Simpson & Watson Colsaerts & Donald
D.Johnson & Kuchar F. Molinari & Poulter
Stricker & Woods McIlroy & Westwood

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 18 Sep 2012, 9:05 pm

No way.....The Irish boys are automatically paired......and should be out front!!

Start with your best players......see If you can get on a roll...

Mcdowell mcilroy
Westwood Donald
Poulter Garcia
Rose Kaymrer

re-evaluate after these have finished....if you need to..

Maybe give Lawrie to Colsearts in the afternoon..calm him down etc..

Woods - Kuchar
Johnson - Watson
Bradley - Mickelson
Furyk - Stricker (banker pair)

re-evaluate after these games..

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Post by SetupDeterminesTheMotion Tue 18 Sep 2012, 9:46 pm

Garcia Donald will be a pairing.

Rose with Poulter
GMac and Rory

Friends will play better together.
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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 19 Sep 2012, 2:10 am

Foursomes;
Simpson and Dufner vs Westwood and Donald
Woods and Stricker vs Poulter and Rose
Mickelson and Bradley vs McIlroy and McDowell
Furyk and Zach vs Hanson and Lawrie

Fourballs:
Simpson and Watson vs Garcia and Donald
Kuchar and Dufner vs Westwood and Colsaerts
Woods and Stricker vs Poulter and Rose
Mickelson and Sneds vs McIlroy and McDowell


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Post by Alsie Wed 19 Sep 2012, 9:37 pm

i like the sound of Hanson/Molinari for the foursomes but not sure i can fit them in

4somes
Woods Stricker Garcia Donald
Mickelson Furyk Rose Poulter
Zach Johnson Snedeker Rory Gmac
Simpson Dufner Westwood Lawrie/Hanson Molinari

4balls
D Johnson T Woods Colsaerts/Westwood
Mickelson Bradley Rory GMac
Kuchar Simpson Poulter Kaymer
Furyk Watson Garcia Donald

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Post by John Cregan Thu 20 Sep 2012, 12:38 pm

Thanks for the views all.............

Personally, i think The Rory/McD partnership doesn't work as well as it is generally thought........thought it was weak enough at Celtic Manor and not sure their games suit each other.....................ok they were 1-1-1 at Celtic Manor so that was ok, but i think Rory should be a European player to play with 2 or 3 different partners........i think he can give others a "lift"............and i love the thought of him and Westwood playing together.............they get on very well even though they are savagely competitive with each other.................

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Post by hend085 Thu 20 Sep 2012, 12:46 pm

thats an interesting point John. hadnt really considered spreading the Rory buzz like that. it could work quite well if he is at his best.
it will be interesting to see who Luke plays with, as two obvious ones imo are Rose and Poulter but it is likely they will stay together.

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Post by super_realist Thu 20 Sep 2012, 12:47 pm

Donald and Westwood seem like the perfect combo to me and have a good record together.

Actually, they've only played together once. Donald and Garcia is an unbeaten pairing.

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Post by SmithersJones Thu 20 Sep 2012, 12:55 pm

Glad you've said that, JC. I agree, they weren't exactly unbeatable and there are better combinations using those two. Any combination of the florida based players, GMac, Rose & Poulter would work well, I also thing Hanson's game matches GMac's quite well. Rory and Lee would be pretty unstoppable in fourballs, and Lee's offered to partner Rory on the basis that they'd make so many birdies.

Garcia & Donald is a good one, or Colsaerts & Donald to give the length & accuracy combo with the rookie/stalwart factor. Frannie & PL, neither rookies nor old hands, but could gel well, and would frustrate their longer hitting opponents (pretty much guaranteed whoever they are!) by not going away. Kaymer is going to be a tough man to pair up, I don't expect to see a great deal of him before Sunday but maybe in a throwaway surprise first fourball with someone like Poulter who might just have enough determination for the both of them.
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Post by super_realist Thu 20 Sep 2012, 12:58 pm

I think Captains have learned the hard way with Mark James debacle where he didn't use Coltart until singles when he was blown away.

I'd expect every player to make at least one match on each day

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Post by SmithersJones Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:04 pm

Do you really think Coltart would have done any better against Woods, who was pretty much at the height of his powers, if he'd played a couple of foursomes or fourball matches? And by better I mean not losing, not simply hanging on for a few more holes.
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Post by super_realist Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:09 pm

Why not? Woods hasn't got a stellar record in the Ryder Cup (no American's do) but it would have given him a bit of confidence and familiarity if he had had a taste prior to going into a match he was pretty certain to lose going in cold.

The point is that, it's a team event, and everyone should pull their weight and be given opportunity to shine, not just thrown in at the deep end. Therefore, tough pairings like who plays with Kaymer have to be dealt with rather than just giving him a token fourball appearance and a singles.

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Post by Sand Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:11 pm

I dont think Rory and Gmac is such as definate pairing. As others have said they werent that great in 2010. I can see Rory playing with Westwood in one of the formats. Think Luke will definately play with Sergio in the foresomes after all they have an unbeaten record. Although Luke did play with Westwood to pump Stricker & Woods so that could also be an option.

In the local press, Lawrie thought he could play with Colsaerts in one of the formats and can see that. Think Rose & Poulter is a given.

I think this year, there is a lot more scope for most players sitting out at least one session with how strong the team is. Wouldnt hinder the team and would keep them fresh for Singles.

Think Kaymer will play more than some are saying, he showed a bit of form again last week with his T5 finish and the week before. Hes a class player at the end of the day.

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Post by SmithersJones Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:18 pm

It's not just form with Kaymer, it's finding someone whose game either opposes or matches his for the fourballs or foursomes. He's pretty long, but not huge, pretty straight but not radar like, short game isn't outstandingly good or bad. I suppose you could argue he can therefore play with just about anyone, but given that there are so many combinations with positive reasons to pick them, I can't see him playing both Friday and Saturday at the expense of a potentially better pairing.
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Post by super_realist Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:20 pm

Kaymer and Hanson or Lawrie might be decent. Steady eddies.

Encouraging though that there are so many natural pairings. Can't say the same for the disparate American "team". Too many big time Charlies.

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Post by Shotrock Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:34 pm

Natural pairings ... disparite American team ... what a stretch!

Big time Charlies played well in Australia last year, look for more solid golf from them.

Enough to take the cup? That's anyone guess.

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Post by super_realist Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:37 pm

Not really a stretch SR. They haven't got a good record of any pairings doing particularly well, also the rookies mean lots of pairings will be unknown quantities.

Not sure The Presidents Cup is much more than a sojourn, but agree, it's anyones cup.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:15 pm

As mentioned on another thread, Gilford and Walton, Clark and James came through big time at Oak Hill, while Rocca and Torrance were superb together.
You just never know!
Will it be "alright on the night"?
Fingers crossed!

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Post by McLaren Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:19 pm

I think the Coltart role would work well for Lawrie, i dont imagine he will be in the best mental state after having been forced to travel to the US.

I think kaymer and Mcilroy would make a good pairing.
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Post by super_realist Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:19 pm

Kwini, from your viewpoint as a Brit in America how are the Ryder Cup and Presidents Cup seen.

Mac give up on Lawrie bashing will you. Just watch his ball striking, he's a superb player.

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Post by Shotrock Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:24 pm

So, who from the American side will struggle the most?

My hunch would be Bradley. A fine player, but just not convinced he's in control of his emotions enough for the pressure of this event.

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Post by super_realist Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:29 pm

Good shout SR, I think he's one that's tasted early success and probably let it go to his head a little.
Simpson might not be great either but I've got Dufner down as a star man for America, don't really know why, just doesn't seem to give a toss about anything so could be fearless.

One thing I really hate though is fist touching. Looks really stupid on fat white men. Sadly I'm sure we'll see a lot of it.

I'll volunteer sniper duty for anyone who shouts "mash potato" though.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 20 Sep 2012, 2:31 pm

s_r:
On a scale where the Ryder Cup is a 10 in Europe, I'd say the Ryder Cup is about a 7 in the US, Presidents Cup about a 3.
Trouble is, can't imagine the Presidents Cup is any more than a 3 or 4 for the Rest Of The World except where it is played.
Went to the Montreal playing and all people wanted was great golf and Mike Weir to win his matches - so much jubilation when he duffed Tiger in the singles, but seriously doubt Les Quebecois gave a monkey's about the team result.

(Big irony there was that none of the Americans needed a passport to cross the border; all but Weirsy did of the Internationals!)

Expect much the same degree of passion in Korea, i.e. very little. Probably much more support for Tiger Woods than Oosthuizen or Scott for instance, so the Pres Cup is nothing more than a feelgood (for the Americans) exhibition.

Can't see USA ever losing Presidents Cup except in Aussie or Saaf Africa so big chance lost last autumn. Mainly because most of the Aussies stunk!

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Post by pedro Fri 21 Sep 2012, 3:38 pm

I think it's dangerous to put out all our big guns early. If they loose early it will be lethal for team moral. Just imagine if Rory, Westy, Poultry, Garcia and Donald all loses their forsomes - the rest of the team will be shell shocked. We saw something similar happen at Valhalla. If Europe had had a less weak start back then, I'm sure it could have all gone better. Of course, you can always blame Faldo for bad team moral, but after all he's not the one swinging the clubs. I think we need to have less hyped players like Franny / Colsaerts / Hanson / Lawrie out in the morning, and maybe Kaymer, as nobody seems to be expecting something from him.

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Post by SmithersJones Fri 21 Sep 2012, 3:44 pm

pedro wrote:I think it's dangerous to put out all our big guns early. If they loose early it will be lethal for team moral. Just imagine if Rory, Westy, Poultry, Garcia and Donald all loses their forsomes - the rest of the team will be shell shocked. We saw something similar happen at Valhalla. If Europe had had a less weak start back then, I'm sure it could have all gone better. Of course, you can always blame Faldo for bad team moral, but after all he's not the one swinging the clubs. I think we need to have less hyped players like Franny / Colsaerts / Hanson / Lawrie out in the morning, and maybe Kaymer, as nobody seems to be expecting something from him.

I agree, that's why I suggested putting Kaymer in a throwaway pairing early on. In many ways he's in a better position than many of the others; if he wins, he's a class player and nobody would be amazed. Equally, if he loses he's been on poor form so it's no great scalp. As such, Olly may well put him out early and focus on the other 3 games.
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Post by John Cregan Fri 21 Sep 2012, 4:22 pm

Ollie will be picking his Top 8 for Friday morning though...........

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Post by Alsie Fri 21 Sep 2012, 4:28 pm

Bold!
4somes is such a hard game to get into you cant get any rythmn going and if someone is not swinging well it could ruin the rest of his week being on the end of a drubbing

if someone is off form i still think he could have a chance of winning a 4ball game with a good partner, i cant see that happening in 4somes

i'd go safe strong pairings 1st out, this Ryder Cup looks so close on paper i dont think we should be throwing away any points

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 22 Sep 2012, 10:38 am

"Where he didn't use Coltart till the singles and got blown away!!"

He was playing Tiger woods Mate!!

Hardly a match you'd expect him to win If he'd played four out of four!!

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Post by GPB Mon 24 Sep 2012, 12:07 am

Everyone plays every day on GPB's team.

Foursomes

Mickelson/Furyk vs Sergio/Luke
Kuchar/Sneds vs GMac/Rory
Woods/Stricker vs Poulter/Rose
Dufner/Zach vs Westy/Molinari


FourBall

Bubba/Webb vs Sergio/Rory
Keegan/Sneds vs Hanson/Colsaerts
Woods/DJ vs Westy/Lawrie
Dufner/Kuchar vs Kaymer/Luke

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Post by GPB Mon 24 Sep 2012, 2:27 am

kwinigolfer wrote:

(Big irony there was that none of the Americans needed a passport to cross the border; all but Weirsy did of the Internationals!)


A passport sure does help on the way back though!

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Post by super_realist Mon 24 Sep 2012, 7:21 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"Where he didn't use Coltart till the singles and got blown away!!"

He was playing Tiger woods Mate!!

Hardly a match you'd expect him to win If he'd played four out of four!!

Why should he have been worried about that? Woods has a poor Ryder Cup record, Coltart would have been better prepared if he'd been involved in some of the other matches.
He may still have got beaten, but it's stupid not to give all players a couple of matches prior to the singles.

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Post by Faldono1fan Mon 24 Sep 2012, 7:49 am

I think most of the Europeans will be queueing up to play Woods tbh. His record is poor & is confidence looks fragile. Coltart would not have been that worried after Rocca beat Woods in the singles in 97. I agree with SR. He was just under prepared.

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Post by delToro87 Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:43 am

Faldono1fan wrote:I think most of the Europeans will be queueing up to play Woods tbh. His record is poor & is confidence looks fragile. Coltart would not have been that worried after Rocca beat Woods in the singles in 97. I agree with SR. He was just under prepared.

His record in singles is actually pretty good, just one defeat, which came in his first Ryder Cup, and one half way back in 2002, when he was playing the last match and knew with several holes to go that USA had lost. His foursomes/fourballs record is pretty mediocre however, so no European player should mind taking on him and whoever he's partnered with.

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Post by Roller_Coaster Mon 24 Sep 2012, 1:51 pm

Sort of ties in to the OP but may possibly be a dumb question so apologies if so...

In relation to the foursomes, as it's one ball per team, does the captain have to consider the balls each player prefers as well as matching playing styles/personalities etc of the players?

If one guy usually uses (say) Srixon Z-Star XV and the other a Pro V1 does the difference between the two affect the player who's regular ball isn't being used?

If the players do have to choose one over the other when they usually use different ones, who chooses?

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Post by super_realist Mon 24 Sep 2012, 1:55 pm

What if one uses a Pinnacle and the other a Pro V?

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Post by Roller_Coaster Mon 24 Sep 2012, 2:05 pm

Well, not that stark a difference but that principle.

Pro V and Z-Star are sufficiently different to make a difference to my game especially around the greens, and of course I won't get as much out of the balls as they do.

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Post by dynamark Mon 24 Sep 2012, 4:03 pm

Come on super mischief making.You know a ryder cup pro wouldnt use a Pinnacle - unless he needed the extra distance that is

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Post by McLaren Mon 24 Sep 2012, 4:24 pm

Maybe the ryder cup is the perfect event to experiment with a tournament ball?
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Post by dynamark Mon 24 Sep 2012, 4:32 pm

Be a very marketable thing but im guessing players are contracted.
Good original question though and I have no idea of the answer TBH

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Post by super_realist Mon 24 Sep 2012, 5:29 pm

There is no need for a tournament ball Mac. Golf isn't too easy as it is, you're always saying par is an irrelevant measure.

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Post by monty junior Mon 24 Sep 2012, 5:44 pm

super_realist wrote:Why not? Woods hasn't got a stellar record in the Ryder Cup (no American's do) but it would have given him a bit of confidence and familiarity if he had had a taste prior to going into a match he was pretty certain to lose going in cold.


Woods singles record in the competition is very good though, i think he's only lost once and was 9 under for 15 holes against Molinari in 2010.

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Post by GPB Mon 24 Sep 2012, 6:14 pm

IIRC, the one ball rule is not in effect. Typically on a par 4, the player teeing off will use his partners ball so the partner can hit the approach shot with "His ball".


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Post by Roller_Coaster Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:40 pm

Gpb - but if you tee off with a pro v, I can't then place my z-star where you hit it to, I have to hit the pro v. I get that you are saying you would drive with the srixon so I could approach with it, but then that leaves you putting with a z-star you don't like (in this example).

Do we just figure a game plan out or do we do as I did the only foursomes I've played and just agree to play the pro v I don't like (badly).

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Post by BlueCoverman Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:01 pm

Don't you mean that leaves you playing out of a bunker with a z-star you don't like Roller? Whistle Laugh

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Post by Roller_Coaster Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:53 pm

Don't believe for a second I'd be left in a bunker by gp, now where he'd be after my approach is a different matter...

Although it'd be likely to involve chasing the beer buggy!

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Post by ScottieD18 Tue 25 Sep 2012, 12:13 pm

I think form during the week should be a big consideration. We need to get the form guys playing as many matches as possible. I'd play everyone the first day therefore 4 guys play twice. Rory, Donald and Westwood deserve to have first crack at playing twice.

After each round, if anyone is stuggling get them out for one round and let them find their game on the practice ground, not the course. Replace them with one of the four that was due not to play the next round but played well.

The additional benefits includes every player contributing early and getting the chance to play in more rounds and reduced risk of players tiring before the singles.

The only problem dropping favoured players is ego. Westwood took the huff with Faldo 4 years ago, but that was probably down to poor communication from Faldo. I think Ollie will communicate his plans very clearly and get every player to guy in.

Can't wait. Should be a cracker again.

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Post by incontinentia Tue 25 Sep 2012, 12:57 pm

I wonder how Westwood will play, he didn't seem in great form last weekend.
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Post by super_realist Tue 25 Sep 2012, 12:58 pm

Westwood played great the week before so I wouldn't think this was the start of some sort of downward spiral. In terms of Ryder Cup players who also played badly he was in good company.

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Post by Shotrock Tue 25 Sep 2012, 2:27 pm

A very interesting read about the origins of this event:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/sports/golf/roots-of-ryder-cup-golf-tournament-involve-seed-company.html?ref=sports

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Post by McLaren Tue 25 Sep 2012, 3:35 pm

Thank for the article shotrock, I really didn't know very much about the origins of the event. It is interesting that the final 1926 version was not the first attempt at an event of its type.

Also, I had never heard of verulam. Has anyone played ther?
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