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2012/13 Premier League discussion thread part 2

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Post by Guest on Sat 17 Nov 2012, 7:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

The discussion(s) continue here guys.

Unbelievable win for the Canaries tonight which see's Man City top for the first time this season, will they hold on.

QPR - still without a win - look doomed and Aston Villa drop into the bottom 3.


Last edited by FreekShow on Sat 17 Nov 2012, 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 3:39 pm

Sky Sports News ‏@SkySportsNews
Vincent Kompany’s red card against Arsenal has been overturned after a successful appeal #SSN

Justice rightfully served
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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 3:43 pm

oh cool...

wow didnt expect that but good stuff!! FA sees sense

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 5:01 pm

Thank god for that. A bit of common sense which usually alludes the FA. It is virtually impossible to get the FA to do anything unless it is a blatantly obvious case of wrongful dismissal. Hopefully the anti-tackling brigade will take note.

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Post by Crimey on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 5:36 pm

I think it's a ridiculous decision and only makes the FA look weaker and more stupid than ever. I can't see the reason for overturning that ban, but not overturning the FA Cup tackle on Nani, two very similar tackles, I actually thought the more recent one was more dangerous.

I can understand why some people think it's justice, but I think it's actually bad news, it means referees, players, managers and fans now have very little indication on what constitutes a bad tackle, what is allowed and what isn't.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 5:41 pm

I think the reason they overturned it is because he done nothing wrong.

Although I agree, the tackle on Nani was not a foul either. Still, at least they have got this one right, always expected them to given the clear cut nature of the incident.

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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 5:43 pm

I do agree with crimey in the fact that inconsitancy is crazy.. Let one off but not another. and who the heck knows what a foul is anymore..

But personally i didnt think the tackle warranted a red card and in this case happy that it was overturned

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Post by PaulHv2 on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 8:05 pm

I would say the tackle on Nani was worse as he jumped in two footed while this was one footed and he won the ball a good few second before Wilshire fell over him.

We need to remember that their is a fine line between a reckless tackle and a great one, Kompany was on the right side of that line this time.
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Post by spencerclarke on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 8:43 pm

The problem is they have over ruled themselves. I don't particularly like the rule but as a fair few former refs have stated under the current rules it was not a wrong decision. Merely harsh.

Mike Dean didn't have a bad day. He made the correct decisions for as the rules are right now. Not just on the Kompany challenge.

The man that did ruin the game was Koscielny by making the challenge. Although it would be nice to see consistancy from one game to another.

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Post by Ent on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 11:28 pm

At the end of the day these tackles are banned to protect the players, just like the tackle from behind.

The majority performed aren't fouls/dangerous but they are very dangerous when mistimed/catch the player.

Thems the rules.

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Post by Guest on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 1:59 pm

Can someone tell me why Wenger is not offering £7m for M'Vila? Puzzling.

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Post by GSC on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 2:03 pm

Because hes a ****
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Post by The Special Juan on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 2:08 pm

QPR - The poor man's Man City. I hope they go down.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 2:14 pm

John wrote:Can someone tell me why Wenger is not offering £7m for M'Vila? Puzzling.

He's going that cheap? Haven't seen him play myself but friends that have say he looks a very good player, good enough to make £7m a bargain that's for certain.

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Post by Crimey on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 2:48 pm

Because he's proven himself to be an extremely disruptive player who isn't good enough to warrant the trouble he makes.

His reputation has gone down the drain over the past 18 months as his own hype went straight to his head and his performances downhill. His stats aren't really any good and there are better, cheaper offers elsewhere.

The main reason though is that Wenger has huge amounts of faith in Abou Diaby to live up to his potential and become the next Vieira.

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Post by JDizzle on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 4:06 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21048679

So Pep to Bayern. Where does this leave Chelsea?

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Post by Guest on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 4:29 pm

Diaby is a good player but is injured 75% of the season. M'vila, regardless of his off the field reputation is an extremely good talent and would allow Cazorla & Wilshere freedom they require. £7m is ridiculously cheap and especially as Wenger wanted Tiote only 6 months ago for £15m........??????

Pep to Bayern is a surprise but it's clever. It's a side built to win trophies regardless of their manager and Dortmund, as expected, will probably weaken over the next year or so due to their own success. Lewandowski wants to leave, Kagawa left and already there struggling domestically compared to Bayern. Guardiola knows his reputation for winning trophies is more likely to continue in Germany than in London in the EPL.

Benitez should just sign a long term deal already, unless 'you know who' is already in behind closed door discussions for a comeback next season.

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Post by Crimey on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 4:58 pm

I think Guardiola has made a clever move as Bayern are currently running away with the league and have one of the best squads in the world, he's got a very good foundation to work with. I think Chelsea would have been a much more difficult job to have, with a squad which obviously has some quality but is lacking in many others. I don't see Guardiola as the manager to get you out of a difficult spell, but one to push you from a good one into a great one.

I'm not sure how successful he'll be outside of Barcelona, so, like many, I'll be keeping an eye on how he does. Let's hope Barca face Munich in the Champions League next year as well.

As for Chelsea, I think this leaves them in a very difficult position and I really don't think Benitez will take the job permanently. Real Madrid fans have voted for Benitez as the man they want to replace Mourinho who I think will leave Madrid this year, so if Benitez goes to Real, I think Chelsea will want Mourinho, but I'm not sure Mourinho will want to return.

Alan Curbishley? He's also being tipped for jobs. Laugh

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 5:23 pm

How about the return of the Special One?

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Post by Crimey on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 5:30 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:How about the return of the Special One?

I don't think Mourinho will want to go there, I think he'll definitely have a preference for one of the Manchester clubs over Chelsea. The only thing Chelsea can offer him over City is the nostalgia of going back to Chelsea and unfinished business, but Chelsea are quite far behind the Manchester clubs at the moment an Mourinho knows only too well that Abramovich doesn't have the patience.

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Post by Guest on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 6:48 pm

what a signing for QPR im very suprised Remy has chosen to go there though

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 6:50 pm

Arry does his magic,,,

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Post by Crimey on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 7:09 pm

Money does its magic.

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Post by Guest on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 7:10 pm

Crimey wrote:Money does its magic.

This.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 9:58 pm

Premiership has officially become a two horse race If it wasn't before...

2-2 v Southampton at home..Poor!!!!

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 10:01 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Premiership has officially become a two horse race If it wasn't before...

2-2 v Southampton at home..Poor!!!!

It's actually a one horse race, no way United will be caught by City this season.

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Post by GSC on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 10:03 pm

Chelsea fans want their Chelsea back.

Which Chelsea was that again, the perennial also rans or the PL/CL winners
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Post by PaulHv2 on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 7:40 am

Chelsea fans asking for Rafa to be sacked, do they not realise their side had 18 shots but only hit the target 3 times last night? Can't exactly blame the manager for that.

Chelsea could have the best manager in the world and some fans would still want him sacked after a few bad results.
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Post by CFCNick on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 7:51 am

^^^^^ That is not true. Ancelotti and Mourinho were held in extremely high regard by Chelsea fans. They only turn on bad managers who try changing the team. AVB tried ditching Lampard and look how that turned out.

It also doesn't help that whilst 2-1 up and needing a goal he took off Lampard for his beloved Fernando Torres.

GSC - Chelsea haven't been also rans since 1993. Very much one of the best teams in the league from that time onwards winning trophies and ginishing top 6 to becoming a very strong title contender under Roman's reign

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 7:52 am

If i was a chelsea fan i would have a problem with the current sitiuation. however rafa has only been picked as an interim manager..

what would be the point in sacking him untill they have a long term one.

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Post by liverbnz on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 8:15 am

MockingJay33 wrote:^^^^^ That is not true. Ancelotti and Mourinho were held in extremely high regard by Chelsea fans. They only turn on bad managers who try changing the team. AVB tried ditching Lampard and look how that turned out.

Since when did Chelsea fans know more than people in the game who have won things at European and World level? Every single manager Chelsea have had in the last 9 years have been successful at a very high level in the game but for some reason they think they have the devine right to pick and choose who they want as their manager. "They only turn on bad managers who try changing the team" translates as they only turn on managers who don't bow to player power.

Chelsea's away record since Di Matteo got the boot has been championship winning form. Their home record relegation form. So the poisioness atmosphere being created at Stamford Bridge by the fans is having a wonderful effect.

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Post by CFCNick on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 8:28 am

mystiroakey wrote:If i was a chelsea fan i would have a problem with the current sitiuation.

I do have a problem. I've started supporting Northampton as well to show my lack of support for what the club is currently going through and because I'm sick and tired of trying to defend the things they get themselves into. Coincidently they come out of the tunnel to the same music as Chelsea so that makes it easier.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 8:34 am

MockingJay33 wrote:^^^^^ That is not true. Ancelotti and Mourinho were held in extremely high regard by Chelsea fans. They only turn on bad managers who try changing the team. AVB tried ditching Lampard and look how that turned out.

Bad managers? Scolari was regarded as one of the best managers in the world, how long did he last? 6 months? AvB one of the top young managers in europe, brought over to England and given a budget to breathe life in to the team, sacked after no time at all instead of being given time to install his style on the side. Now they have Rafa who they where happy to cheer when they smashed Villa 8-0, but draw at home to Southampton because your players have the finishing ability of a sumo wrestler and they want him sacked.

The players need to start taking some flack of the fans instead of focusing on the manager. Do they think part of Rafas tactics was to kick the ball in to the crowd instead of the net?
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 9:07 am

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Premiership has officially become a two horse race If it wasn't before...

2-2 v Southampton at home..Poor!!!!

It's actually a one horse race, no way United will be caught by City this season.

Wasn't it an eight point lead with 6 games left last season and United still threw it away?

Not counting my chickens till the final whistle on the last day.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 9:12 am

hampo171 wrote:Chelsea fans asking for Rafa to be sacked, do they not realise their side had 18 shots but only hit the target 3 times last night? Can't exactly blame the manager for that.

Chelsea could have the best manager in the world and some fans would still want him sacked after a few bad results.

Chelsea fans crack me up. Someone needs to remind them they were a barely relevant club before Roman's billions, a footnote in any title race at best, and they'll be back there once he gets board and leaves - which'll probably be as soon as he gets permission to build a new CFC ground and convert Stamford Bridge into a couple of blocks of big swanky flats.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 9:38 am

olh come on havent we got past the roman billions by know..

London clubs have allways had a massively distinct dissadvantage to others in the fact we have so many- so support is split and we get loads of good clubs yet its hard to be ubber succesfull.

Man city are only good due to investment- it has little bearing on the fact there were once a good club..

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Post by GSC on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:00 am

Yes, but would Chelsea be multiple PL champions and CL winners in the past decade without Roman.

Give me Chelseas last decade over what they were before anyday if I were a fan.
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Post by liverbnz on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:05 am

mystiroakey wrote:olh come on havent we got past the roman billions by know..

London clubs have allways had a massively distinct dissadvantage to others in the fact we have so many- so support is split and we get loads of good clubs yet its hard to be ubber succesfull.

Man city are only good due to investment- it has little bearing on the fact there were once a good club..

The population of London and the price London clubs can charge for tickets far outweighs any disadvantage from having to compete with other clubs.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:13 am

if london had 2 main clubs like liverpool or manchester ..... well not gonna say they woulld be the best two teams- but they would clearly be the most supported teams

however we have 9 top flight clubs(pl and championsip)

arsernal,chelsea, totenham, qpr, fulham, palace, west ham, charlton, millwall..

anyway no sour grapes here.. its the way it is. but the population argument is outweiged by the amount of clubs..


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Post by liverbnz on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:28 am

No it's not. Merseyside, Lancashire and Greater Manchester have a population of c6m to be spread among Liverpool and Manchester United (2 of the worlds largest supported clubs) as well as Blackburn, Bolton, Blackpool, Wigan, Everton and Burnley. There is also Preston North End who are one of the founder members of the Football League.

London on the other hand has a population of over 8m with a much denser population so your arguement just doesn't stack up and it's made even worse by the fact the London teams charge considerabley more for tickets and therefore have much larger matchday revenue. Manchester United's matchday revenue is 9% more than Arsenal's, yet their average attendance is 25% more.

To put that in perspective, if Arsenal matched United's attendance, they would earn 20m more in match day revenue - that's 20m extra earned purely because they are situated in London.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:30 am

liver you cant use money(turnover) as a gauge here pal.

Everything is more expensive in london so its not like for like.

to make the same profit or break even or to make the same less loss(which is sometimes the case in football) london clubs have to charge more.

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Post by liverbnz on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:35 am

mystiroakey wrote:liver you cant use money as a gauge here pal.

Everything is more expensive in london so its not like for like.

Which disproves your bizarre theory that London clubs are at a disadvantage because they clearly benefit from the London economy.

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Post by liverbnz on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:39 am

[quote="mystiroakey"]liver you cant use money(turnover) as a gauge here pal.

Everything is more expensive in london so its not like for like.

to make the same profit or break even or to make the same less loss(which is sometimes the case in football) london clubs have to charge more.[/quote]

Rubbish. The majoirty of football clubs expenses are wages of the players ranging from 50% to over 100% if you are Manchester City. The biggest wage bills in the country are the 2 Manchester clubs and Chelsea so yet again your arguement falls short. London clubs charge high ticket prices because they can, not for any desire to break-even.

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Post by CFCNick on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:43 am

GSC wrote:Yes, but would Chelsea be multiple PL champions and CL winners in the past decade without Roman.

Give me Chelseas last decade over what they were before anyday if I were a fan.

Why do you and some others have this crazy illusion that Chelsea were nothing before Roman?

Do some research and you'll see just how big Chelsea were from the early to mid 90s up to Roman coming along in 2003.

Man City were today's Aston Villa of the league before they got rich. Don't tar Chelsea as a nothing club like that. They had a lot of success before Roman.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:44 am

As i said you cant use turnover as argument that london teams are at an advantage..


your probally right about the rest. thumbsup

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:49 am

MockingJay33 wrote:
GSC wrote:Yes, but would Chelsea be multiple PL champions and CL winners in the past decade without Roman.

Give me Chelseas last decade over what they were before anyday if I were a fan.

Why do you and some others have this crazy illusion that Chelsea were nothing before Roman?

Do some research and you'll see just how big Chelsea were from the early to mid 90s up to Roman coming along in 2003.

Man City were today's Aston Villa of the league before they got rich. Don't tar Chelsea as a nothing club like that. They had a lot of success before Roman.

50 odd years without a league trophy before Roman? Remind me how many European cups they won before Roman?
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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:52 am

[quote="liverbnz"]
mystiroakey wrote:liver you cant use money(turnover) as a gauge here pal.

Everything is more expensive in london so its not like for like.

to make the same profit or break even or to make the same less loss(which is sometimes the case in football) london clubs have to charge more.[/quote]

Rubbish. The majoirty of football clubs expenses are wages of the players ranging from 50% to over 100% if you are Manchester City. The biggest wage bills in the country are the 2 Manchester clubs and Chelsea so yet again your arguement falls short. London clubs charge high ticket prices because they can, not for any desire to break-even.

the running costs of a big club in london(overheads) could be upwards of an extra 30 mill a year..

I have no idea what your 50%- to over 100% means by the way.. would you care to explain?

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Post by liverbnz on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:54 am

But you can mystir. You are an accountant so you know the importance of revenue especially when you know football clubs place very little importance in making a profit. London clubs have an advantage in that their revenue is inflated due to the London economy whilst ther costs are not really affetced due to their situ. The more revenue you have, the more you have to spend on player's wages and transfer fees. It's no coincidence that the clubs with the highest revenue are the ones winning things year after year. This has always been the case really even before the Sky boom.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:56 am

I run my own business- an accountant by trade.

Accountants care about profits..

Business men care about profits.

many football clubs really truely dont give a monkies your right.. Just a play thing..

your right that economies of scale(charge what you can get away with) make a massive difference-and so do players wages- by far the biggest expense!.. however they all employ accountants that will be trying to quantify costs and all day long.. even just the small ones.. look after the pennies and all that(even if the owner is some rich bloke throwing away millions at the other end!!

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Post by Crimey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:59 am

Surely the lack of home support from Chelsea fans has got to be a big reason for their poor home form. Away from home where Rafa doesn't get the same poor reputation they play really well but at home they struggle, and I think the boo boys have got to realise they are making things harder.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 11:02 am

basically i allways look at things as if a football club is a business.

How a business should operate and that in london a standard business's overheads would be 30% higher than in manchester..

but you are right that in footballs case it is clearly different at the high end

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