Liam Williams

For all the obvious discussion points from the Wales game yesterday I'm surprised more hasn't been made of the young scarlets lad. I thought he had a brilliant game and was exactly the breath of fresh air we needed.

Absolutely committed to the tackle, he cut off more than one very dangerous nz attack. He is pretty quick too and his ball skills looked decent with a swift take and give. He never looked over awed by his highly vaunted opponents either.

If he continues like he started then he could have a bright future.

Yes, I was pleasantly surprised by him, he showed some real commitment.

I'd love to see 3 of him playing in a back 3, he has nearly the complete package but sadly Gatland is all about the weapons so expect him to play 2nd fiddle to Cuthbert, North and 1/2p for a long time.

Williams and 15
Halfpenny at 14
Whoever is playing the best out of North and Cuffbutt for 11

The biggest positive for me was his technical ability and his confidence in that ability, he arrived late at a few very good high balls but didn't half throw himself into a potentially dangerous situation desperate to win the ball, and when all around him were losing their head and missing tackles he was cutting all blacks in half, not an easy feit at all!!

I don't think he will be put aside so Leigh and George can play. He’s not exactly a small guy is he. With Roberts due to be out next week if his hip doesn’t recover in time, we could well see North in the centre (Not who I’d chose but Gatland likes that big ball carrying centre) This would free up a wing spot which Williams could well make his own within a few games time.

Really coleman, You don't think Williams will be drafted into the centre to work with JD2?

Scott not Liam.

I'd much rather see Scott Williams and JD in the centre, they're proven together at regional level and made a good fist of it last night against the Blacks.
But the Welsh game plan is very simple at the moment; it revolves around a big guy carrying the ball in to their 10/12 channel and then another big ball carrier following up on the second phase in hope that we've created space or gaps for third phase ball (if we haven’t turned it over). Unfortunately Roberts is the key man in this tactic, so without him I believe Gatland will see a natural replacement in North. Which may well give Liam Williams more game time on the wing for Wales.

Not necaseraily, Williams made numerous busts up the middle yesterday and with his speed, hands and lines was far more effective than Roberts has been in a long time. I did ntice that the first crash was pretty effective flattening Cruden, and the 2nd time Williams was nailed hard by Mccaw, Hore and Cruden together, job done if the forwards are throwing themselves at that chennel to stop a bust.

Scott Williams and JD2 should be the starting pair even if everyone was fit in my opinion. Scott Williams is not a lot smaller than JR but he is much quicker, much more aggressive and has better skills. Jamie is already yesterdays man in my opinion. However Gats will continue to persist with him and our try scoring will continue to stagnate and JR will still be coughing up ball too easily with every attack.

Nick

Yesterdays man is harsh, and in his defence the type of ball he takes from RP (flat, on the gain line and not very classy) is very difficult to keep hold of trust me.

That said I wouldnt have had roberts in my squad this Autumn, with no Blues gametime let alone form he was a risk, as was Warburton and sadly both have offered nothing to the team.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Not necaseraily, Williams made numerous busts up the middle yesterday and with his speed, hands and lines was far more effective than Roberts has been in a long time. I did ntice that the first crash was pretty effective flattening Cruden, and the 2nd time Williams was nailed hard by Mccaw, Hore and Cruden together, job done if the forwards are throwing themselves at that chennel to stop a bust.

What is a necaseraily?

Sounds like an up and coming French flanker from Toulouse. Pierre Necaseraily. Quality French under 20 blindside.

It was no real surprise the Liam played so well. He's been playing well all year, the only thing I was concerned about was his size. He's a bit of a lightweight and I thought the AB's may give him a beating. As it happens he more than stood his ground and his commitment was second to none. I still think he's better at fullback and think he should play there for Wales as this is where he plays for the Scarlets. Not that he's a bad option on the wing, he's proved himself at regional and now international level. With Halfpenny playing so well and taking the kicks he has to play, I've always preferred him on the wing though so it leaves the fullback for Liam. The cost as mentioned above is North or Cuthbert.
With a back 3 like this we won't need 2 big bash through the middle wingers. We'll have Halfpennys pace plus one of the big guns and the safety, commitment and attacking brain of Sanjay behind. The ability to swap positions from wing to fullback so easily with 2 of our back 3 will open up some tactical options for Gatland too.

Can't argue with that Overlord, but proven after 1 game with like you said no real pressure is a bit much.

He needs a few games in which we are competitive to see if he cuts it but like you based on that performance I was very impressed!

I would dare to suggest that Williams is a more commited defender than North.

Biltong wrote:I would dare to suggest that Williams is a more commited defender than North.

Wouldnt say North, more so than Cuthbert sure

On last nights performance I'd say he was the most committed defender in red bar none!!

IronMike wrote:

Biltong wrote:I would dare to suggest that Williams is a more commited defender than North.

Wouldnt say North, more so than Cuthbert sure

i have watched North's work rate on defence, in specific last year, it was low, very low

I disagree there Bilt, he looks lazy in defence but because he is so confident in his ability, he constantly shows attackers the outside and attempts to look vulnerable, then just glides them into touch.

However his recoil ability in defence after a kick to support 1/2p is awfull, and when someone does to him what he does to attacker he falls into the trap of taking the outside and gliding into touch himself.

Bluesman go check his tackling stats of last year, I actually did an article for the journal on new up and coming players, and made specific mention of his tackling sats.

I promise

Bluesman
I see your point, perhaps I had written it wrongly, I sort of meant he's proved himself at the Scarlets and if your able to play NZ out of position and be one of the standout players in the side you're not doing badly. Id like to see him start next week as a reward for his commitment and to show some of the others their place is not set in stone.

I can imagine his stats aren't great, but he is playing in a Scarlets team renowned for being soft up front and are regularly goven a tonking. Wingers are never going to be top tacklers in that kind of team, and he was also a teenager, lets not forget.

I'm not saying he's a great defender but he is no weakness, Cuthbert on the other hand is a right soppy sap!!

Well either way, I thought Williams was abrasive last night.

He's probably the only 'real' 15 in Wales at the moment, with Byrne abroad. Unbelievable under the high ball, deceptively strong for someone so lean, and is excellent at running the ball back. But his attitude is so aggressive and unapologetic that he was one of the few players actually looking like he wanted to beat, and not merely compete, with the All Blacks, and that on his second cap.

Also, I think Scott Andrews deserves a lot of credit, solid in the scrum, even when weakened in the second row, and was defiant in the loose, if not always quite up to the pace/physicality of the game, but how many Welsh forwards were?

Overlord

I would agree with you totally, but I see North being reinstated and Cuthbert hold the other wing spot with Scott in the centre.

IMHO I would really mix things up next week, another loss is not going to kill us but another poor performance from our 'starters' might do much more damage!!

I'd like to see the following players start...

Owens,
Shinglar,
Tipuric,
Hook,
Williams,
Williams

I'd give 1/2p the day off (not that he's done much wrong but we need to find replacement FB and goal kicker)

Warburton finally starting to look like he's gaining fitness but Tipuric has been ignored for too long now!!

Rees is useless and should be 3rd choice for Wales as he is 2nd for the Scarlets.

Both Wiliams were ok yesterday and deserve to start, and Hook has had his int career ruined until now and needs to play 10 if he is going to stay in the squad!

Agree with those players starting Bluesman, unbelievable when you consider how these are the form players, yet it's taken 3 games to realise that, if you play form players, they'll probably do alright.

If we have a kicking 10 (i.e. no Priestland) it could be a risk that pays off to drop/rest 1/2P, unfortunately for Liam, Leigh is one of the best Welsh performers, in Australia and during the Autumn, and his kicking makes him almost indispensable.

Sadly miaow you are right.

I'd probably add Andrews to that list too, looked ok for the Blues and was one of our better performers V NZ.

It's not that Cuthbert is a less commited defender, he's just not as good at it as North or Williams. He came to the game later than those two and is less experienced. Cuthberts strike rate does seem to be a bit better than Norths, I think all three are good enough to start for Wales and all three do the basics well as well as finishing. In my opinion that puts all three further ahead in the Lions pecking order than Ashton and Visser.

I'm not sure about Visser, I'd put Cuthbert on par with Visser as both of them can be poor defenders at times.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Overlord

I would agree with you totally, but I see North being reinstated and Cuthbert hold the other wing spot with Scott in the centre.

IMHO I would really mix things up next week, another loss is not going to kill us but another poor performance from our 'starters' might do much more damage!!

I'd like to see the following players start...

Owens,
Shinglar,
Tipuric,
Hook,
Williams,
Williams

I'd give 1/2p the day off (not that he's done much wrong but we need to find replacement FB and goal kicker)

Warburton finally starting to look like he's gaining fitness but Tipuric has been ignored for too long now!!

Rees is useless and should be 3rd choice for Wales as he is 2nd for the Scarlets.

Both Wiliams were ok yesterday and deserve to start, and Hook has had his int career ruined until now and needs to play 10 if he is going to stay in the squad!

I was surprised Owens didn't start against NZ. He'll probably still feature on the bench. I'd imagine the selectors do not want to make any unforced rotations with all the injuries and players heading back to France. That might even seen Priestland start again(although I hope he does not). Unbelievably we have three TH props injured and now three second rows. I think any international team would suffer there. Bevington isn't good enough to start in my opinion but if James and Jenkins head back then what alternative is there? It's going to be a weak pack and the only place where we could beat Aus is the back-row I reckon. So, do we move R.Jones to lock and put Shingler at 6? Or start with two open-sides (warbs and Tips) like the Wallabies do? Either way our back-row still has pace, enough to counter the oppositions.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm not sure about Visser, I'd put Cuthbert on par with Visser as both of them can be poor defenders at times.

Cuthbert and North have been slated for 'not looking for work around the field' which they actually do a lot of. More-so Cuthbert than North. Visser is just an unbelievable finisher but not a better or worse finisher than what we have.

But if we get mullered in the tight 5 Morg with a front row of Andrews, Bevington and Rees (which we will) then the back row will be reckin themselves putting out fires and trying to compete at the muscle.

Williams did well and it seems Wales need more guile and speed in the backs and less power. With Cuthbert, North and Jamie Roberts it seems we have the balance wrong.

Not going to pick the team until I hear who is definitely available. But Williams and Davies would certainly be my choice in the midfield outside Hook/Biggar with an unchanged back 3.

I would think it worth an experiment with Biggar, Williams, Davies in the midfield.

If biggars fit, and williams Davies play together all the time so theres no experiment there.

I think Hook is back to France this weekend so we could be down to Priestland and AN other.

It is a shame that Hook has not been given 80 minutes at 10 to show what he can do, but this management team seem to be so inflexible and stubborn and don't want to admit when something is not working. Same with Jamie Roberts.

I find the size thing with Liam Williams confusing - his stats have him as 13 st something, but when you look at him, he looks quite a big lump. He's very physically committed, and he does seem to have the power to go with it. I though he did very well, and very nice hands for Cuthbert's try.
And I have to say, Scott Andrews didn't do as badly as I feared.

I thought the lad played well. He's been impressive for the scarlets and deserved his call up. One of the few players who had the aggression need to face the ABS. Well done laddy

Why can't the others just outwardly show the aggressive commitment that Liam puts in. He's like Stoddard, in your face. We are such a nice side to play against. I would like to see that change. We lack intensity and urgency and I don't undestand why. Shingler is another you can add to the above as he is outwardly assertive on the field. I don't want us to be a nice side to play against and we should not wait until we are behind in a game I would drop Cuthbert for now and give Liam another chance.

I really would drop Cuthbert from the squad all together until he gorws a pair and starts trying to make tackles, and looking for others when attacking. I think he butchers about four or five attacks, and was iffy in defense. If Liam Wiliams (all 13st 9lbs of him) can put in big defensive takles, and stop a two on one overlap before the try gets scored then someone the size of Cuthbert should be able to. IMO he is the new Thom James/Aled Brew.

I think that the injuries actually strengthened out side at the weekend. Bradley Davies has not been on fire during the AIs, and Shingler played very well, was everywhere. Jamie Roberts was not looking good, but Scott WIlliams was running better crash ball, and was lucky to be the only back I have seen score a try from a 5m line. Scott Andrew was also far more impressive than I would have expected, he has been a bit of a standing joke on here (the modern Cai Griffiths) but must have silenced a few of us with his performance. I think that realistically they all deserve to get given starts this weekend.

The only positions I am worried about is who will play fly half, and who will play on the wing North not on the best of form or Cuthbert (think i have said enough about him already).

Did himself proud good around game,
Got say Wales looked far more dangerous with Scott Williams and JD2 as in the centres,
Roberts offers a lot but Scott Williams has a far better kicking and offloading game.

A press article was saying how the NZ players didn't kn ow who was who in the Welsh team,i bet a few of them know who Liam Williams is now! sit down boy and give me that ball.

It would be a disgrace to drop Liam even if North is fit. If the team had shown half of his commitment against Argentina and Samoa I think we would have won both games.

Out of interest has Liam Williams ever played outside half - he's just a good all round footballer. Biggar looked good recently and I'd be more than happy with him there

Players who can take a break for me are:

Cuthbert (I don't hink we should be too critical though as I still see him as a great asset)
Jamie (just predictable)
Bradley (Ryan offers so much more)
Mathew Rees (we have better more dynamic options)

Built like a twiglet plays like a tornado

I thought both of the Williams were excellent. Liam looked like a particularly good prospect. I hope they get another shot ahead of Roberts and North even if they are not injured. The possess the guile and subtlety that has perhaps been lacking due to Wales' recent obsession with size and power.

Exactly AWOP, it's a pretty basic idea to try and hit the gap instead of trying to run through the defender like Wales have been trying to do. Both Scott and Liam Williams together with JD2 appear to play heads up rugby and play what's in front of them. Of course I may have a slight Scarlets bias here!

No bias subsbench that's how it is - If Stoddard shows the form and aggression he had before he was injured then that would make it very interesting

Ospreys pack with Lydiate and Scarlets backs with halfpenny