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India v England, 3rd Test, Eden Gardens Kolkata

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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Dec 2012, 5:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

The third test of the series is getting underway at the historic Eden Gardens tomorrow. The series is at one all after 2 tests.
Eden usually is an intimidating place for touring teams. The crowd turns up large, although not on the scales of earlier times and it usually has the effect of India playing with 12. Could be an experience in itself for all players involved.
In the runup to the test, the pitch has been quite a talking point with the CAB curator engaging with a public spat with the Indian captain. Although the Eden wicket has lost some of its old spark, it has been producing results, often in the last session of the match. A used pitch will be used for the match and spinners might find some turn. How much of bounce will be available, has to be seen though.
The other factor could be the timing. In the eastern parts of the country, light fades early in winter and so the match will have a half an hour early start. Might just be of a bit of interest to the seam bowlers. Artificial lighting will be used if required.
On the team front both teams have things to think about. Harbhajan Singh got a national recall without doing much to deserve it, and his bowling in the Mumbai test was nothing spectacular. Seemingly he has some health concern and didn't train today. Anyways it is unlikely India would go in with 3 spinners on this track. Umesh Yadav is not fully recovered as yet, so Ishant Sharma should get his chance here. Yuvraj Singh too had some injury concerns following getting hit on the arm during training, but he seems to be OK.
For England, Ian bell is back from leave. Jonny Bairstow didn't make compelling case to take over from Bell, so the senior man should be back. Remains to be seen whether that would be at the expense of Bairstow or Samit Patel. There have been indications that Stuart Broad who has had an inneffective series so far is in line to be replaced by a fit again Steven Finn.
No major worries with the weather at this stage.

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:32 am

India have to make changes. They've been outbatted and outbowled solidly in the last 2 tests. None of their top and middle order are in any kind of form bar Pujara
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Post by Guest Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:33 am

their bowling attack must be a huge worry....nothing threatning about it at all..

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:36 am

That as well, but its hard for them to build pressure like England do with the worst fielding unit in international cricket.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:36 am

I have to say I personally think Tendulkar's time has come to step away from the test team for India. He's a shell of his former self and India (like the Aussies have done recently) need to move onto a younger generation imo

Great day for England. If Finn can stay healthy we have such a talent on our hands here
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Post by GSC Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:37 am

Tendulkars time to step away came before this series. He'll never be dropped though.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:39 am

No he'll never be dropped i agree but i think he needs to do what Ponting done and make this next test his last.

I cant see India making many changes for the next test apart from dropping Yuvraj, but for there next series I can see wholesale changes
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Post by Guest Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:42 am

out of the four modern greats

Lara-went too early
Kallis-can go on forever in his current form


Ponting-went on too long
Sachin-has gone on too long

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Post by Shelsey93 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:47 am

I don't like to tell people to retire. After all, they can always be dropped.

Having made 78 here dropping him wouldn't quite seem fair, but Rahane really has to play, and he's not a number six.

Making this next Test Sachin's last could be a great marketing ploy. Nagpur usually produces a sea of empty yellow seats: I'm sure they'll come in for Sachin's last game.

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Post by Guest Sat 08 Dec 2012, 11:49 am

Rahane should come in for sehwag IMO..whether that be for the next test or end of the series..

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:09 pm

I would imagine Rahane will come in for Yuvraj. Kohli can drop down to six , he has done nothing either. Tendulkar won't be dropped , but he just might call time after this series.
Suppose the bowling depends a bit on the pitch . Again. You'd want to drop Ishant Sharma just for his fielding , but he actually bowled a lot better than Zaheer , so ??? Three spinners again and hope it works this time ?

Can't leave Sehwag out. He is a bit hit or miss these days , but when he fires he actually makes India look as if they can take the England attack apart...rest of the time the batting just hasn't been convincing.

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:10 pm

Leaves India in a bit of a pickle as to what pitch to prepare in the final test. Obviously they have to have a result, but England's seamers and spinners have outplayed theirs.
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Post by Guest Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:10 pm

for the sake of indian cricket, head need to roll, and tough decisions need to made, sooner rather than later!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:13 pm

After England messed up the batting, and India breezed to 86/0 at lunch, I was a bit concerned. No need to be however, as Swann, Finn and Anderson blew away the Indian batting. Just a bit frustrating at the end as Ashwin played a good innings to ensure it goes to the final day. No worries though, new ball, unsettled batsmen, one wicket to get and then a small total to chase - should be done in the first hour!

Then roll on Thursday for Nagpur, England 2-1 up against a demoralised and out of form team. No idea what pitch India will have, they need a win so can't prepare a pancake, they can't prepare a sharp turner because England's spinners are better, and they can't try and prepare a seaming pitch because England's seamers are better.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:21 pm

indias bolwers allways just look like stock bowlers . and i suspect they have hundreds of the same quality..

How do they get there bowlers to just push on, how do they get the special ones to shine and break though!


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Post by Guest Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:24 pm

t20's had a negative effect on indian test cricket..


shots from sehwag, kohli and Ishant demonstrate that quite well...immediatly at the start of a new season, big booming drives against the spin or swing came out immediatly and that wouldnt usually happen in a test match..

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:24 pm

Thats just Sehwag being Sehwag
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Post by alfie Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:27 pm

Perhaps India should prepare a flattish pitch and hope winning another toss will combine with some understandable tiredness in the England bowling ranks to ensure them a really good score...they could pick two fresh seamers and hope scoreboard pressure will do the job...but if Cook were to win a toss at last that might look a bit of a Bad Idea.

Mustn't get carried away. No doubt England are playing much better at present , but Ahmedabad is only three weeks ago...

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Post by Guest Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:29 pm

also let's be honest Dhoni dosent set a great example as test captain..

if it wasnt for him being captain he wouldnt get into the side..his wicket-keeping is shoddy, and thats being nice! he hasnt scored test match runs for a hell of a long time...he's living off the world cup win..

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Post by ShahenshahG Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:36 pm

IPL has killed indian test cricket. Bowlers, Batsmen whatever, everyone playing for the buck and concentrating on that. For any fast bowler to grow and be good he needs to go to SA, Eng or Aus FC where he can grow - not the IPL where the short nature of the game provides the pressure on the batsmen that sustained excellent fast bowling in the tests do. When they get into the tests that crutch is gone and the added unhelfulness of the pitch renders them sterile. They've always struggled with the pacers but its gone beyond a joke now. Dhoni needs to be replaced because he has caught the do what I say or die arrogance from the BCCI and Srinivisan thinks he's jehova's first witness therefore only he is entitled to pick and choose what happens and doesnt.

Anyone think Tendulkar has looked at the indian team and at the newcomers and thought - I can't leave it like this.

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Post by gboycottnut Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:39 pm

England can still lose, if India's last pair extend the lead past 150. Not actually impossible considering that England struggled to bowl out the last West Indian pair in the 3rd test in the summer when Tino Best scored a century V England against a bowling attack which included the likes of Steven Finn.
And also let's lot forget the spectacular batting collapses of England's 4th innings V Pakistan in the UAE at the start of this year.


Last edited by gboycottnut on Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:40 pm

so you gonna take my bet then GB- no limit- 60/1!!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:41 pm

gboycottnut wrote:England can still lose, if India's last pair extend the lead past 150. Not actually impossible considering that England struggled to bowl out the last West Indian pair in the 3rd test in the summer when Tino Best scored a century V England against a bowling attack which included the likes of Steven Finn.
And also let's lot forget the spectacular batting collapses of England's 4th innings V Pakistan in the UAE at the start of this year.

You love to be negative lad. Are you actually an England supporter? Just enjoy the fact that we're about to go 2-1 up in India.

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Post by gboycottnut Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:
gboycottnut wrote:England can still lose, if India's last pair extend the lead past 150. Not actually impossible considering that England struggled to bowl out the last West Indian pair in the 3rd test in the summer when Tino Best scored a century V England against a bowling attack which included the likes of Steven Finn.
And also let's lot forget the spectacular batting collapses of England's 4th innings V Pakistan in the UAE at the start of this year.

You love to be negative lad. Are you actually an England supporter? Just enjoy the fact that we're about to go 2-1 up in India.

Of course I am an England cricket supporter. It is just that my confidence in the England team has somewhat been dented by the batting collapses V Pakistan at the start of this year and by that frustrating piece of last wicket batting by Tino Best and his West Indian colleague during the 3rd test match when we had the likes of Steven Finn bowling.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Sat 08 Dec 2012, 12:48 pm

If India win from here would it be the greatest test match comeback of all time?

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Dec 2012, 1:04 pm

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:If India win from here would it be the greatest test match comeback of all time?

Winning after staring down an innings defeat with 1 wicket left? Yeah
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Post by Guest Sat 08 Dec 2012, 1:06 pm

I think England will win but it's not impossible for India to build a lead of around 100. A few early england wickets chasing, say 90, and the tension and nervousness would be extremely high and anything could happen.

Must say though, England have been superb this series and deservedly should go 2-1 up in the series.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 08 Dec 2012, 1:26 pm

At the start of the day's play if someone would have said we would have India 9 down and only 30 odd runs ahead I'm fairly certain most England fans would have snapped the person's hand off!

Brilliant day from our boys especially coming back after an horrific first session!
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Post by msp83 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 1:42 pm

England will chase nothing more than 40 in the last innings. Ojha did a decent job hanging around, but I don't think that can be expected to last long. No question of India building a 100+ lead. 26 is the lowest test innings score isn't it? England was bowled out for 51 in the West Indies 4 years ago, and they were bowled out for 72 by Pakistan early this year. But unfortunately, Even that much will be plenty for England to win. So no hope. The only thing to hope is that the BCCI, after an extended period of denial, will take some steps in the interest of Indian cricket.
There has to be changes in terms of players and the team leadership. Yuvraj hasn't taken his last chance, lets just focus on his ODI brilliance and at last reconcile to the reality that he's not quite a test player despite his tallents as an ODI batsman or that green top hundred against a quality Pakistan bowling lineup or that Lara like counterattacking 169 that came from a position of 61-4.
Ishant Sharma has to go back to Ranji, work out his bowling better, understand his strengths and weakness better and comeback later. Zaheer has to be dropped on his current form. He didn't do anything expected of a bowler of his ability over the last 5 tests.
Gautam Gambhir's half filled contributions aren't enough, he has to be placed on notice, get a big one or go back to domestic cricket soon.
Ravindra Jadeja has just scored a 70 in his teams total of 209. If he can do a good job with the ball, then he has to come in.

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Post by msp83 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 1:44 pm

A good innings from Ashwin though. But he needs to deliver more with the ball, these batting contributions are always nice and important, but Ashwin the bowler has a lot to learn and I hope he does it soon.

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Post by msp83 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 1:46 pm

Will the India tour see the making of Nathan Lyon? Pattinson has already trampled all over India, Hilfenhaus rediscovered himself and Siddle showed his mental strength, all against India.

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Post by msp83 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 1:49 pm

Ganguly is gone, Kumble is gone, VVS is gone, Dravid is gone, Tendulkar looks like going soon. The goldan generation is gone for India. We have to get used to far more mediocrity, even at home in the future. The IPL generation aren't good enough in T-20Is, they aren't good enough in tests. There are some quality ODI players like Dhoni, Yuvraj and Kohli in the ranks. Perhaps in the near future the only format where they would be doing some decent job would be ODIs.
Its better to be resigned to this rather than placing high expectations.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 08 Dec 2012, 1:55 pm

I think Kohli will come good in Tests he's just going through a bad patch at the moment
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Post by msp83 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 2:02 pm

India have send a senior player the press meet after the day's play this time. Virender Sehwag said Indian batsmen have a lot to learn from their english counterparts.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Dec 2012, 2:44 pm

The denial of India:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/story/596086.html

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Post by Guest Sat 08 Dec 2012, 5:24 pm

Grant Holt V2 wrote:I think Kohli will come good in Tests he's just going through a bad patch at the moment

OK

Kohli is class, and will be a great of the game, but everyone goes through bad patches!

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Post by skyeman Sun 09 Dec 2012, 4:12 am

Thank heavens England are not chasing 120.

Eng 8/3. 27 more to win.

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Post by skyeman Sun 09 Dec 2012, 4:25 am

Not without a wee flutter, Eng chase the required runs to go 2-1 up with one to play.

Bell being positive and played some fine shots in his wee cameo.

Outstanding clap

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Post by msp83 Sun 09 Dec 2012, 5:22 am

Fine performance from England overall, but that flutter at the beginning of their 2nd innings should make the Indian top order think what if. It was good bowling from England, but there was no application whatsoever.

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Post by msp83 Sun 09 Dec 2012, 7:40 am

Indian captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni has put his captaincy future in the hands of the selectors but clarified that he won't run away from the responsibility.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 09 Dec 2012, 9:03 am

Ermm not amazingly haapy with that end, However just a hiccup.. and a Great England win overall!!!

Well done england- India showed abit of fight! something to take forward

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Post by GSC Sun 09 Dec 2012, 9:19 am

England thoroughly outplaying India, but honestly it wasn't a great England performance. India were just very poor
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Post by GSC Sun 09 Dec 2012, 9:25 am

Yuvraj, Harbhajan and Zaheer Khan dropped, Parmender, Chawla and Jadeja in
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Post by msp83 Sun 09 Dec 2012, 9:46 am

The one major statement in that India squad for the 4th test is dropping Zaheer Khan despite his stature and past record. Fair enough, but India need a lot more than that to turn things around.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun 09 Dec 2012, 10:00 am

Great win but a right old wobble with the batting again in the final innings. Blimey. The signs are still there, the batting is still the chink in the armour for sure.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 09 Dec 2012, 11:17 am

Another fantastic win for England. First time India have lost consecutive tests since 2000, and first time they've lost a Test in Kolkata since 1999. Surely Cook will win the toss on Thursday, then we can bat India out of the game and the series. Well done England. clap

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Post by alfie Sun 09 Dec 2012, 11:44 am

Not too bothered by a few wickets going down in the nominal "chase"...wasn't able to watch it , but surely not even England supporters were ever seriously concerned they wouldn't make forty one ? Smile

A good win. One can be critical of India , but their poor performance is partly a function of the pressure being put on them by some excellent England bowling and batting.

Not assuming Nagpur will be an automatic win ...I am no great believer in the momentum theory , so although India might seem disconsolate right now that is not to say they won't be able to raise their game in a few days. Get off to a good start and who knows...

On form you have to favour England , who look far more settled. But as has been pointed out , there have been collapses even in these big innings , and no guarantee there won't be a more complete one st some stage. Bell got a nice little 28 to settle the match , but that is probably the best score he has made in Asia for a long time , and I am not overly confident he can be relied upon for a big score...any more than Patel. They might think about Bairstow , but I expect the team to remain unchanged.
Hope Cook keeps churning out the runs...

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sun 09 Dec 2012, 12:08 pm

England do look fragile past kph. Bells not making runs, Patel is a passenger ( although all rounders rarely get a chance to shine if the specialists are doing their jobs) prior is throne rock then swan is no more than a fair hitter followed by three rabbits. If India bring injadeja they will look a long more solid

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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 09 Dec 2012, 12:08 pm

alfie wrote:Not too bothered by a few wickets going down in the nominal "chase"...wasn't able to watch it , but surely not even England supporters were ever seriously concerned they wouldn't make forty one ? Smile

A good win. One can be critical of India , but their poor performance is partly a function of the pressure being put on them by some excellent England bowling and batting.

Not assuming Nagpur will be an automatic win ...I am no great believer in the momentum theory , so although India might seem disconsolate right now that is not to say they won't be able to raise their game in a few days. Get off to a good start and who knows...

On form you have to favour England , who look far more settled. But as has been pointed out , there have been collapses even in these big innings , and no guarantee there won't be a more complete one st some stage. Bell got a nice little 28 to settle the match , but that is probably the best score he has made in Asia for a long time , and I am not overly confident he can be relied upon for a big score...any more than Patel. They might think about Bairstow , but I expect the team to remain unchanged.
Hope Cook keeps churning out the runs...

Gboycottnut was tying his children to the altar after the first ball and sharpening his knife

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Post by Duty281 Sun 09 Dec 2012, 12:30 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
alfie wrote:Not too bothered by a few wickets going down in the nominal "chase"...wasn't able to watch it , but surely not even England supporters were ever seriously concerned they wouldn't make forty one ? Smile

A good win. One can be critical of India , but their poor performance is partly a function of the pressure being put on them by some excellent England bowling and batting.

Not assuming Nagpur will be an automatic win ...I am no great believer in the momentum theory , so although India might seem disconsolate right now that is not to say they won't be able to raise their game in a few days. Get off to a good start and who knows...

On form you have to favour England , who look far more settled. But as has been pointed out , there have been collapses even in these big innings , and no guarantee there won't be a more complete one st some stage. Bell got a nice little 28 to settle the match , but that is probably the best score he has made in Asia for a long time , and I am not overly confident he can be relied upon for a big score...any more than Patel. They might think about Bairstow , but I expect the team to remain unchanged.
Hope Cook keeps churning out the runs...

Gboycottnut was tying his children to the altar after the first ball and sharpening his knife

Laugh

I must admit I was a bit nervous at 8/3 and seeing Bell walk to the crease with Patel the next man in. I hope Bairstow comes in for Patel for the next Test.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 09 Dec 2012, 12:36 pm

If they're not gonna bowl Patel I don't think he should play the next test personally.

But they might use him a little more in the next test as Monty and Swanny did look to be getting a bit fatigued by the end of the 4th day
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