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South Africa vs New Zealand series 2012/13

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South Africa vs New Zealand series 2012/13 - Page 3 Empty South Africa vs New Zealand series 2012/13

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 5 Dec - 17:33

First topic message reminder :

NZ are touring South Africa in December and January, playing 3 T20 internationals, 2 tests and 3 ODIs. Just setting up this thread up as a placeholder.

South Africa are on a high following their wins away in England and Australia, while NZ should also be on a high coming off a drawn series in Sri Lanka with a big win in the second test. Things are definitely not looking good for the Black Caps however. Veteran left armer Dan Vettori has been ruled out, while star batsman Ross Taylor may also miss the series due to coach Mike Hesson's efforts to remove him from the captaincy:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8036042/Ross-Taylor-keen-to-stay-on-as-captain
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8041737/Taylor-could-pull-out-of-South-Africa-tour
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8030383/Coach-Hesson-asked-Ross-Taylor-to-resign


As per usual NZ Cricket are reinforcing their status as an amateur and incompetent governing body Sad

NZ squads: http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-new-zealand-2012/content/current/story/595709.html
Test squad Brendon McCullum (capt), Martin Guptill, Kane Williamson, Peter Fulton, Daniel Flynn, Dean Brownlie, BJ Watling (wk), James Franklin, Tim Southee, Doug Bracewell, Neil Wagner, Trent Boult, Jeetan Patel, Bruce Martin, Chris Martin.

Twenty20 squad Brendon McCullum (capt, wk), Martin Guptill, Rob Nicol, Peter Fulton, Colin Munro, Nathan McCullum, Corey Anderson, James Franklin, Jimmy Neesham, Derek de Boorder (wk), Mitchell McClenaghan, Doug Bracewell, Trent Boult, Ronnie Hira, Adam Milne (Mark Gillespie (Michael Bates)).



Last edited by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 13 Dec - 15:46; edited 2 times in total
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Post by msp83 Wed 2 Jan - 10:11

Martin's still there, even after playing 3 balls!.
But He has ran out of partners!!!!. Steyn gets his 2nd, allout 45 New Zealand.

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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 10:12

All out, Steyn got his 2nd.

And I think Vettori did retire from Test cricket, somewhere last year. I might be wrong though.

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Post by Biltong Wed 2 Jan - 10:13

45 all out.

Caught and bowled Steyn.


Philander 5 for 7
Morkel 3 for 14
Steyn 2 for 18

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 2 Jan - 10:14

He's injured, had an operation after the Windies series and then got a hernia.

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Post by Galted Wed 2 Jan - 10:14

20 minutes till my Kiwi colleague gets in, they would've been about 4 down when he left for work so might have to break the news to him then get someone to call 999 for me.

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Post by Biltong Wed 2 Jan - 10:15

comment in cricinfo.

Incredible from South Africa. Feeble from New Zealand. They didn't bat out their 20 overs. Oh, it's a Test match. We knew things were bad for the visitors, but this is on a whole new level. Skittled in less than a session. Far too easy for the home side. Are the Aussies out there feeling a little better? Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 10:15

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:He's injured, had an operation after the Windies series and then got a hernia.

Okay, I stand corrected.

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Post by shivfan Wed 2 Jan - 10:16

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:He's injured, had an operation after the Windies series and then got a hernia.

Ah, hernia and achilles injuries....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-new-zealand-2012/content/story/595181.html


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Post by msp83 Wed 2 Jan - 10:21

Vetori is injured and not retired from test cricket. He in fact wants to focus on test cricket now.
Ryder has personal issues and hasn't made himself available for New Zealand.
Taylor was humiliated by coach Hesson and has pulled out of this tour after the entire debacle.
Ones those 3 are bak, I'd like to see a lineup of
McCullum
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Watling
Franklin
Vetori
Bracewell
Southee
Boult

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Post by gboycottnut Wed 2 Jan - 10:27

Biltong wrote:comment in cricinfo.

Incredible from South Africa. Feeble from New Zealand. They didn't bat out their 20 overs. Oh, it's a Test match. We knew things were bad for the visitors, but this is on a whole new level. Skittled in less than a session. Far too easy for the home side. Are the Aussies out there feeling a little better? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Never mind, as New Zealand have never been good at cricket apart from during a golden spell in the mid-1980's when they managed to get a few world class players in their playing XI. This current New Zealand test team are at least on par if not worse than the England team lead by Mike Atherton in the disastrious Trinidad test match in 1884 when England got bowled out for a similarly embarassing low score.

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Post by Biltong Wed 2 Jan - 10:27

Smith gone LBW.

1/1
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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 10:29

Smith gone, hope we can at least get within 20

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 2 Jan - 10:29

msp83 wrote:Vetori is injured and not retired from test cricket. He in fact wants to focus on test cricket now.
Ryder has personal issues and hasn't made himself available for New Zealand.
Taylor was humiliated by coach Hesson and has pulled out of this tour after the entire debacle.
Ones those 3 are bak, I'd like to see a lineup of
McCullum
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Watling
Franklin
Vetori
Bracewell
Southee
Boult

Not bad, except for Franklin - he simply can't hack it at test level IMO. A shame, as in first class cricket he's phenomenal.
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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 10:33

Amla almost also out, look like there is a fair bit still left in this pitch.

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Post by gboycottnut Wed 2 Jan - 10:44

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
msp83 wrote:Vetori is injured and not retired from test cricket. He in fact wants to focus on test cricket now.
Ryder has personal issues and hasn't made himself available for New Zealand.
Taylor was humiliated by coach Hesson and has pulled out of this tour after the entire debacle.
Ones those 3 are bak, I'd like to see a lineup of
McCullum
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Watling
Franklin
Vetori
Bracewell
Southee
Boult

Not bad, except for Franklin - he simply can't hack it at test level IMO. A shame, as in first class cricket he's phenomenal.

When Franklin first played at test level wasn't he a very good pace bowler then and could have been NZ's best pace bowling all-rounder since Richard Hadlee.

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Post by seanmichaels Wed 2 Jan - 10:51

gboycottnut wrote:
Biltong wrote:comment in cricinfo.

Incredible from South Africa. Feeble from New Zealand. They didn't bat out their 20 overs. Oh, it's a Test match. We knew things were bad for the visitors, but this is on a whole new level. Skittled in less than a session. Far too easy for the home side. Are the Aussies out there feeling a little better? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Never mind, as New Zealand have never been good at cricket apart from during a golden spell in the mid-1980's when they managed to get a few world class players in their playing XI. This current New Zealand test team are at least on par if not worse than the England team lead by Mike Atherton in the disastrious Trinidad test match in 1884 when England got bowled out for a similarly embarassing low score.

Side captained by Stephen Fleming wasn't too shabby. Included Cairns, Nash, Vettori, Astle, Parore, MacMillan, Richardson. Held a great record of 5 unbeaten (albeit without a win) against the great Aussie side around 2000-2002.


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Post by Pal Joey Wed 2 Jan - 11:02

Yes, that was a very good outfit in the early 2000s. I still believe once they get Vettori, Taylor, Ryder and Southee back they will be much more competitive.

Unfortunately they have walked into the lions jaws here in Capetown... as other teams have done from memory.

Let's hope they can salvage something in the next few weeks. Cricket needs NZ to be there or thereabouts in the grand scheme of things.

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 2 Jan - 11:08

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
msp83 wrote:Vetori is injured and not retired from test cricket. He in fact wants to focus on test cricket now.
Ryder has personal issues and hasn't made himself available for New Zealand.
Taylor was humiliated by coach Hesson and has pulled out of this tour after the entire debacle.
Ones those 3 are bak, I'd like to see a lineup of
McCullum
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Watling
Franklin
Vetori
Bracewell
Southee
Boult

Not bad, except for Franklin - he simply can't hack it at test level IMO. A shame, as in first class cricket he's phenomenal.
If Vettori plays, it has to be at No.6, as a batting allrounder. Not as one of the main 4 bowlers. His bowling form in Tests has been horrific of late.

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Post by Pal Joey Wed 2 Jan - 11:12

He hasn't bowled since getting injured in the West Indies a while back though... hence his poor return there.

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Post by shivfan Wed 2 Jan - 11:22

Interesting to see that South Africa have finally dropped Rudolph and replaced him with Elgar...IMHO, a Test average of 35 is disappointing for a Saffer batsman. He's played 48 tests and is now 31, so is probably not going to get any better. Let's see what Elgar can do....
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Post by Duty281 Wed 2 Jan - 11:24

45 out all out in under 20 overs. Ouch. New Zealand have really hit the wall, there's no excuse for that in a Test Match, especially in the opening session!

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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 11:37

shivfan wrote:Interesting to see that South Africa have finally dropped Rudolph and replaced him with Elgar...IMHO, a Test average of 35 is disappointing for a Saffer batsman. He's played 48 tests and is now 31, so is probably not going to get any better. Let's see what Elgar can do....

Too be fair to Rudolph, he wasn't chosen when he was at his best. But he also never really showed that he could make the step up consistently.

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Post by Guest Wed 2 Jan - 12:00

So New Zealand have hit rock bottom, and have England coming to them soon...anyone see them bouncing back and causing England problems?

Hopefully Anderson, Broad and Finn can cause similar fear in the NZ batsmen that Philander, Morkel and Steyn clearly have. What a performance.

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Post by alfie Wed 2 Jan - 12:04

Not everyday you tune in to a Test Match an hour into the first day and find you've missed most of the first innings ! Bit in the pitch , good bowlers on form - but still that was remarkable .
Though it wasn't too long ago Australia were dismissed in similar fashion when touring SA . Just wasn't the first morning

Did suspect NZ (without , as Linebreaker points out , four of their few undoubtedly Test class players ) would struggle on this trip. Hope it gets a bit more competitive , not least for the excellent crowd that has turned out today.

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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 12:22

Amla gets his 50 in 55 balls

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Post by Biltong Wed 2 Jan - 12:24

He has been in sublime form for some time now, an absolute pleasure to watch.
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Post by MMaaxx Wed 2 Jan - 12:27

Philander starting the year with a 5fr, Amla with a run a ball 50 - Are we lookng at the top performers of 2013? SA don't have the most demanding year coming up. Lots of home tests

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Post by shivfan Wed 2 Jan - 12:34

FerN wrote:
shivfan wrote:Interesting to see that South Africa have finally dropped Rudolph and replaced him with Elgar...IMHO, a Test average of 35 is disappointing for a Saffer batsman. He's played 48 tests and is now 31, so is probably not going to get any better. Let's see what Elgar can do....

Too be fair to Rudolph, he wasn't chosen when he was at his best. But he also never really showed that he could make the step up consistently.
Having said that, he has played 48 tests, so he can't complain about the chances he has received....

Of course, a lot depends on how Elgar performs in this series, otherwise when Duminy is fit again, we might once again see him competing with Rudolph for one batting spot.

Alviro seems to be doing okay as Smith's opening partner....
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Post by MMaaxx Wed 2 Jan - 12:35

Alviro averaged 47 in 2012, more than Ok as Smith's opening partner

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 2 Jan - 12:40

Id love to see England NZ played in the UAE that would be a hoot wouldnt it!

What an absolute joke. Still the Werst Indies have shown no matter what a shambles your set up gets to it is possible to get back to a competitive level. NZ are never likely to be a top 4 side in any format, but they should be capable of producing better than this current team.

Vettori obviously would help were he fit, but thats only papering over the cracks. Hes getting old now anyway and with the catalogue of injuries hes had recently you have to wonder how many more years they can get out of him anyway, especially if it stands in the way of his pension scheme in T20 (funnily enough hes said he'll try and ease himself back in the BBL)


As for SA if they could get a proper spinner they would be the perfect team. Replacing kallis seems to be the only challenge in the near future, although he seems to be able to go on for ever.
There may be a question of depth in the seamers when injuries or rests take their toll, but then the front 3 are amongst the finest in the game. Phillanders record is unreal ... more than just a one season wonder. He seems pretty much unplayable, Anderson but 10kph faster.

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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 12:46

MMaaxx wrote:Alviro averaged 47 in 2012, more than Ok as Smith's opening partner

And people see him as our weak link.

Nice weak link to have.

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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 12:56

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:As for SA if they could get a proper spinner they would be the perfect team. Replacing kallis seems to be the only challenge in the near future, although he seems to be able to go on for ever.
There may be a question of depth in the seamers when injuries or rests take their toll, but then the front 3 are amongst the finest in the game. Phillanders record is unreal ... more than just a one season wonder. He seems pretty much unplayable, Anderson but 10kph faster.

Replacing Kallis will always be difficult. He is the best player produce by SA since readmission (In my opinion ever, but some people don't agree with me even though Pollock himself said something along this lines).

Philander has done well, but we have to remember he really likes playing on Newlands (He averages 9 on his homeground). Take that out of the comparison and he just looks like a really good bowler.

On the seamers front, we have quite a lot of talent, but they are a bit erratic. Marchant got 7 wickets in his first innings and didn't get a test after that again. Then you still have Rory Kleinveldt, Parnell, Tsotsobe (don't know if he will get a crack at the test team though) and more that haven't been given a chance but has done well for their franchises

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Post by seanmichaels Wed 2 Jan - 12:59

South Africa can manage their bowlers by continuing to play less Test Cricket than most other nations.

17 December 2012
Team Matches Points Rating
South Africa 29 3566 123
England 41 4825 118
Australia 38 4332 114
Pakistan 29 3148 109
India 37 3879 105

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Post by FerN Wed 2 Jan - 12:59

Amla out lbw to Franklin for 66.

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Post by shivfan Wed 2 Jan - 13:14

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote: Still the Werst Indies have shown no matter what a shambles your set up gets to it is possible to get back to a competitive level.
Laugh
119-2 at tea....

Alviro moving towards a half-century. I've always been a fan of Alviro....
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Post by msp83 Wed 2 Jan - 13:26

James Franklin ones upon a time was one of the most promising seamers in the world. Then injuries happened, one after the other, and he remodelled himself as a a batting all-rounder.
When I mentioned the possible NZ outfit above, I included him because in recent times he showed some stickability although he never really converted the many starts he got into anything substantial. Besides, him being in there would help the captain get a few overs from him, and he usually keep it accurate and doesn't offer too many hit me balls. Would help the real pacers get a bit of rest as well.
Besides the outfit above, I'd also have Tod Astle also in there, playing a similar role to that of Franklin. He showed he was a half-decent spinner in Lanka, and he could bat a bit as well. So in sub-continent conditions, Astle in place of Franklin.
So
McCullum
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Watling
Vetori
Franklin/Astle
Southee
Bracewell
Boult.
How about Colin Munro and perhaps Brownlie as batting backup?

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Post by shivfan Wed 2 Jan - 13:40

Alviro gets his half-century....
clap
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Post by Fists of Fury Wed 2 Jan - 14:26

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Id love to see England NZ played in the UAE that would be a hoot wouldnt it!

What an absolute joke. Still the Werst Indies have shown no matter what a shambles your set up gets to it is possible to get back to a competitive level. NZ are never likely to be a top 4 side in any format, but they should be capable of producing better than this current team.

Vettori obviously would help were he fit, but thats only papering over the cracks. Hes getting old now anyway and with the catalogue of injuries hes had recently you have to wonder how many more years they can get out of him anyway, especially if it stands in the way of his pension scheme in T20 (funnily enough hes said he'll try and ease himself back in the BBL)


As for SA if they could get a proper spinner they would be the perfect team. Replacing kallis seems to be the only challenge in the near future, although he seems to be able to go on for ever.
There may be a question of depth in the seamers when injuries or rests take their toll, but then the front 3 are amongst the finest in the game. Phillanders record is unreal ... more than just a one season wonder. He seems pretty much unplayable, Anderson but 10kph faster.

What on Earth are you talking about man? Philander bowls 80-82mph, Anderson more like 84-85.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 2 Jan - 14:31

Well, NZ are highly limited and, whichever way you change things up the team can never look remotely strong.

Ideally you want Taylor in, and Ryder too (although I don't blame them for leaving him out - he's had so many last chances!).

With those two at least you get a top 5 capable of scoring 100s.

Quite simply some of the players aren't even particularly good FC players. Dean Brownlie played a couple of fighting knocks in Australia, but even then didn't look technically good. Really he's nowhere near Test standard. Flynn wouldn't get near international recognition in England or SA too, and Watling and Franklin were both a place too high today.

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Post by shivfan Wed 2 Jan - 15:51

FerN wrote:
MMaaxx wrote:Alviro averaged 47 in 2012, more than Ok as Smith's opening partner

And people see him as our weak link.

Nice weak link to have.
On 99 not out now....
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 2 Jan - 16:40

45 off 19 overs...

maybe they should have just had a 4th 20/20 game and started the tests next week??????????????

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Post by msp83 Wed 2 Jan - 17:41

Shelsey, Ryder isn't quite left out, he has made himself unavailable due to personal problems, He had in fact taken some time off from the game, the usually useless NZC for a change, provided him with a support system, he came back to the game during the ongoing NZ domestic season and has been absolutely superb form with the bat and chipped in with the ball as well. But he hasn't made himself available for the national side as yet. A real tallent, hopefully he'll be back soon.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Wed 2 Jan - 21:53

If SA don't hang around - say bash out another quick hundred and declare - match could easily be over in two days. Shocked

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 2 Jan - 22:25

Corporal - it did cross my warped mind that SA could have really taken the proverbial by declaring before the end of day one and stcking NZ in again for the last twenty minutes!

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Wed 2 Jan - 22:30

guildfordbat wrote:Corporal - it did cross my warped mind that SA could have really taken the proverbial by declaring before the end of day one and stcking NZ in again for the last twenty minutes!

Guildford - Yes that would have been a bit unsubtle if they had done that. Laugh Even declaring shortly before or after lunch on day two would be pretty embarrassing. Can't imagine that has been done too often in test cricket by a team batting second.

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Post by msp83 Thu 3 Jan - 6:25

Pakistan will be calling on SA after this series, and they do have a decent bowling lineup. So SA can use the time at hand to get their batsmen among runs, even if there is a bit of a weather concern on day 2, it shouldn't be a problem for the rest of the match.

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Post by Biltong Thu 3 Jan - 8:51

New Zealand is using the conditions well, they are bowling much better lines and lengths and the ball is moving under the cloud cover.

SA being kept quiet and Petersen is back in the pavillion.
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Post by msp83 Thu 3 Jan - 9:06

The best passage for NZ so far in the game, but AB and Faf are weathering it alright. They aren't scoring as freely as they did yesterday, but then here is a situation to be toughed out, and like a top ranked side should do, SA are facing up to it and so far they've done well.

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Post by Biltong Thu 3 Jan - 9:14

And Faf du Plessis' bubble bursts. out for 15.
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Post by msp83 Thu 3 Jan - 9:51

Ab on to 40, and I start worring. He has been getting out in the far too many times since taking the gloves.

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