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India v England 4th Test, Nagpur

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Dec 2012, 3:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

So we are reaching the last lap of the series with lots of things at stake.
England are 2-1 up, and this is a historic chance for Alastair Cook's side to make history by winning a series in India after 28 years. After a dreadful year where they lost 7 test matches and the well earned number one ranking, England seem to be getting firmly back on track.
Captain Cook is leading from the front, Kevin Pietersen and Matt Prior are backing him well with the bat and Nick Compton has been solid if not spectacular. Of late Jonathan Trott also found some form. James Anderson has been good, Monty Panesar and Graeme Swann comfortably outbowled their Indian spin counterparts.
There are injury concerns though Steven Finn, who bowled very well in the last match is almost ruled out. Stuart Broad won't be able to step in for him, as he's already ruled out. That leaves a straight choice between Tim Bresnan and Graeme Onions. Bresnan has struggled to match his ashes form since his elbow troubles, and was pretty poor at Ahmedabad in the first test. Onions didn't have a great time in the tour matches. I would personally go for Onions, who has more pace than Bresnan has and bowls a wicket to wicket line. But England might prefer Bresnan's experience and his previous record in the sub-continent. There are questions over Samit Patel's place as well. Patel hasn't really gone on to play a big innings so far, but he has got a few important starts. If Finn's ruled out, his 5th bowling option would be more handy for England.
As far as India go, its a test match at the crossroads for them. The team has lost 2 back to back home tests after 12 years. They are facing the prospect of a home series loss after 8 years. All these come on top of the disasters in England and Australia. The batting isn't firing, the spinners are being outbowled. The leader of the pace pack is send packing by the selectors. There are shrill calls for the captain's head.
Captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni expects his side to show some character in these circumstances. He expects Gautam Gambhir to convert one of those starts into a big one and he believes Sachin Tendulkar, as he has often done will deliver for his team and prove the speculators wrong. He things he can handle the criticism coming his way.
They are sure to go in with 2 changes as Zaheer Khan and Yuvraj Singh who played the previous matches are dropped. It could be Ajinkya Rahane's much anticipated test debut. He might bat 6 in place or else they can bat him at 5 and push Virat Kohli to 6. The other option is to pick Ravindra Jadeja who has been in the form of his life in the Ranji Trophy this season. Jadeja has already scored over 800 runs with 2 triple hundreds for Saurashtra and has picked 26 wickets with his left-arm spin. Playing Jadeja would mean they can play 3 spinners without losing the balance of the attack. The absence of Zaheer and the unavailability of the injured Umesh Yadav might mean that Ishant Sharma's experience might see him playing. Remains to bee seen as to who would partner him in the seam bowling department. Ashok Dinda has been in the squad for some time, Parvinder Awana has good pace and recent good form.
As far as the pitch goes, cricinfo reports that it hasn't been watered for the last couple of days. So the dry pitch should turn. From when onwards and how much remains to bee seen.
Weather is expected to stay good.

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 13 Dec 2012, 8:45 am

A day....or a year? Averaging 100+ in a year is incredibly consistent...it can hardly be called a flash in the pan.

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Post by GSC Thu 13 Dec 2012, 8:48 am

The whole, we'll decide whether we want to use DRS thing needs to end. Either everybody uses it or nobody does
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 13 Dec 2012, 8:49 am

he is a great player- dont get me wrong- but how often could we attribute a decent dispaly by bell as being a match winning performnace- yes we may be able to say the same about Trott- however one anchor for me and one only.. Bell goes on runs of getting out to early alot!! he scores big in games that are allready won or lost!

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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 8:56 am

Brave call to include Root, very defensive call to take Bresnan. India will be kicking themselves that they didn't include 2 seamers. Very slow and low pitch. Scoring is difficult and India are actually fielding decently. Fortunately, England won the toss. Mind you, batting India out of contention hasn't gone well - Compton got a good ball, Cook got a shocker from the umpire, Trott didn't know where his off stump was and Ian Bell batted like Ian Bell. I would take 300 from here, KP is doing really well to grind out an innings.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 13 Dec 2012, 8:56 am

Btw the Ian bell confuses me.

He is allways touted as a silky player. a player with a great range of shots and a great tecnique..

He was even touted as one of our only players that could play spin!!

however as you say his average has been boosted by a year playing on quick tracks..

So how does this add up.

Trott, KP, cook and even prior(not that his tecnique would suggest it) can play anywhere.. that defines the batsmen for me..

Its more about the head game.. bell is a flake..

good scores v Sri lanka at home isnt what I cal ldefining cricket

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Post by VTR Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:00 am

Bell should have stayed at home with wife and baby. Pathetic attempt yet again today. Would rather anyone was playing rather than him at the moment. And yes that includes Ravi Bopara.

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Post by alfie Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:01 am

I see Bell is under fire again Smile

Nobody could accuse me of being a Bell critic - I think he is a wonderful batsman. But I do question the assumption that he is bound to come good in Asia sooner or later so we might as well pick him.

He averages under twenty in India , thirty or so ? I think in Sri Lanka and about minus three in the UAE . Expecting him to produce runs "next time" sounds like the triumph of hope over experience...

I pray he scores big in the second innings. But I'm not off down the betting shop Smile

Root has at least got to double figures. Fingers crossed he can get going again after tea.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:03 am

desperately poor innings from Bell again, unfortunately. Just didn't seem to have much of an idea of how he was going to score runs.

See Cook got a shocker, which is a shame but happens. KP going nicely, boundary to get us going after tea. Root looked nicely organised too before tea, hope he can build on that.

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Post by VTR Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:04 am

I think the issue with Bell at the moment alfie is this whole paternity fly in and out as you want business. Really he should have missed the whole tour as its bound to affect his game.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:06 am

The magnitude of Bell's crime doubles when you think he gave his wicket away to Chawla of all peop.le.

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Post by VTR Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:09 am

TMS described it as good captaincy bringing Chawla on for Bell. Basically insinuating tempt him with the long-hop bowler to slap a tame shot to the fielder. It worked alright!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:09 am

KP gifts it away with a terrible shot Sad

England in trouble

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:11 am

I don't think I'd read too much into the paternity thing. Didn't Graeme Smith went to SA in between the tour for a similar reason? Not the first cricketer to have a similar experience by any means. And anyways he had the baby safely, so now what's the fuss?
His mental approach to playing on slow and low tracks is the problem, perhaps if he manages a good start it can all fall into place quickly, but that hasn't been happening for him.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:11 am

England as a whole having batted brilliantly on this tour and still have some issues against the spinners. KP and Cook have flattered the overall contribution, the majortity of the team have struggled.
Its not just Bell.
We are already trying to fill one batting spot in the team, Morgan Bairstow Patel (edit) Bopara, and Taylor now Root....all been tried, none yet able to stake a claim.

Bell certainly gets a free pass for the summer anyway, his record in England is brilliant.


Last edited by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:41 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:11 am

Big wicket that one!.

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Post by VTR Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:12 am

I think we've had it here. This match will be a long slow march to defeat I'm afraid.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:14 am

Jadeja again with the wicket.
He really is going through a period of fine form. Even the little things seem to go your way. Trott inexpiably left a straight ball, and KP plays a loose flick to be caught at midwicket.

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Post by Gerry SA Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:17 am

Might sound strange but I think 200-220 and England will be in the pound seats.

Scoring is tough. Apart from India's wildcard, Sehwag, no one else in their top order can score freely. Coupled with 4 & 5 are out of sorts. 6 is a debutant. 7 is a pretend Test cricketer.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:18 am

So long as Prior is there, India won't feel entirely comfortable. He can quickly change the complexion of the game situation. As things stands now, this has the makeings of a low scoring match, and if Prior gets going for a while, then that could be trouble for India. They should keep the intensity up. Dhoni has been very proactive behind the stumps today and the fielding has held up alright so far.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:19 am

actually looking at it again, KP's trying to do the right thing and get after Jadeja who England have just allowed to bowl at them. However he probably should have been hitting straight, always an element of risk to that shot, and it was a good low catch by Ohja (nice to see KP accepting the fielder's word too). India in fact have been much much better in the field today, the presence of Jadeja giving them new energy.

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Post by Gerry SA Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:19 am

msp83 wrote:Jadeja again with the wicket.
He really is going through a period of fine form. Even the little things seem to go your way. Trott inexpiably left a straight ball, and KP plays a loose flick to be caught at midwicket.
Seems strange that, even with a better first class bowling record than Ashwin, Ojha and Chavla India only selected him in T4.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:20 am

Oh by the way cricinfo reports that both Broad and Finn won't be available for the T-20Is. Morgan to captain, James Harris in as replacement.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:21 am

Useless Chawla giving away easy runs on a track dificult to score.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:30 am

England have been much too passive of Jadeja, who hasn't really turned the ball, but he's varied his pace nicely and kept a good length, just short of drivable. Surprised Ashwin's bowled so little: Ashwin playing as a batsman and Jadeja as a bowler? Wink

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:31 am

Ishant Sharma back on for Chawla.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:34 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:England have been much too passive of Jadeja, who hasn't really turned the ball, but he's varied his pace nicely and kept a good length, just short of drivable. Surprised Ashwin's bowled so little: Ashwin playing as a batsman and Jadeja as a bowler? Wink
MFC Jadeja hasn't offered too many hit me balls and England rightly didn't try and go after him. May not be the best of ideas against a wicket to wicket bowler on a slow and low track. Perhaps they should have looked for a few more singles and try and put him off his line and length.
Ashwin hasn't bowled too much, very much a result of an imbalanced attack. Someone has to be underbowled, and looks like its Ashwin for today.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:36 am

8 overs for Ashwin out of 75 bowled so far.

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Post by Guest Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:36 am

Good to see Joe Root getting a chance, he's got all the talent needed at this level and a good head on his shoulders. I can see him bumping the likes of Morgan, Bairstow and Bopara down the pecking order.

All set for another one of Matt Prior's batting masterclasses India v England 4th Test, Nagpur - Page 3 3559488474

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:40 am

Perhaps Dhoni should give Jadeja a rest and try Ashwin? Root wouldn't have seen too many of his variations?

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:40 am

msp83 wrote:Oh James Harris in as replacement.

So yet again England call up a kid with a goodfirst class record and mediocre limited overs record...to play his first internationals in T20 picard

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:40 am

Game over for England this...thrown it away in the face of some distinctly average bowling.

I maintain that this pitch should never have been suitable for Test cricket, but it is the type of pitch England struggle on most.

Jadeja is a completely innocuous bowler, yet we have somehow gifted him a couple. There's more chance of George Michael turning than a Jadeja delivery. Typical.

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:41 am

msp83 wrote:Perhaps Dhoni should give Jadeja a rest and try Ashwin? Root wouldn't have seen too many of his variations?

Which variation is that? The long hop or the full toss?

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:47 am

Jadeja is given a rest, but it's Ohja into the attack to replace him.

slightly overpitched outside off and Root drives nicely through point for a couple.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:48 am

and here is Ashwin, replacing Sharma after a short burst.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:50 am

Fists of Fury wrote:
msp83 wrote:Perhaps Dhoni should give Jadeja a rest and try Ashwin? Root wouldn't have seen too many of his variations?

Which variation is that? The long hop or the full toss?
Good one that Fists!.
Still, Ashwin can bowl a few different balls, just that his selections, like a batsman's shot selection isn't quite working well at the moment Too many hit me balls really, making life easy for English batsmen.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:51 am

Now Ashwin's on and Root so far has looked comfortable. Ojha also back on, so Sharma off after a 2 over spell. Will Dhoni take the new ball?

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Post by alfie Thu 13 Dec 2012, 9:56 am

England battling away here but looking at the way this pitch is playing on day one I am certainly not calling panic stations yet.

Anything over 200 in the first innings might be a good score . Obviously a Sehwag special could render that idea ridiculous , but if Monty and Swanny are on form I don't envy India batting last.

India's fielding much more energetic today..fresh players ?

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:00 am

Alfie, being on the front foot helps them. India are very much a fair weather team, they just dont like it up 'em.
Test cricket is hugley pshcological, England too despite all the focus on characther and menatl toughness and positive thinking are prone to the same roller coaster of effort application and execution.

This games very much alive, its really hard to know how India will cope with Englands spinners and how much of an advantage batting first will be. Prios one of the few England batsmen to have shown he can do well on this tour, and India are unlikely to have specific plans for Root. Big partnership here and we can post 250 ...which may oprove to be comeptitive.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:06 am

Root looks set now and Prior also looking good. Good bit of rebuilding between these tow, nothing flashy, taking there time on a slow wicket, dificult to score, but not so dificult to survive. Its only day one, there is plenty of time for England, those cracks will open up as the game progresses and they have Swann and Panesar and and an out of form Indian batting lineup.

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Post by alfie Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:07 am

PSW ... I would love to see these two prosper and get England up to 250 ! They will need to play well and keep their concentration to do so ...

Fortunately they seem to be in better form than your spellchecker Smile

Reckon you are spot on about the mental thing , especially as regards Indian fielding application .

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:10 am

India would love to separate these 2 before stumps today. With Bresnan in that batting lineup is extended further, but they would really want to have Prior before stumps.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:12 am

250 will be a good enough score.. 50/50 game at the mo.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:13 am

You can't judge a pitch untill both sides bat, but I don't think survival is dificult on this track. It is just that the ball's not coming on to the bat and the bounce is not really there, but there is no real turn or uneven bounce that should create any major problems for batsmen intent on survival.

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Post by alfie Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:16 am

msp83 wrote:You can't judge a pitch untill both sides bat, but I don't think survival is dificult on this track. It is just that the ball's not coming on to the bat and the bounce is not really there, but there is no real turn or uneven bounce that should create any major problems for batsmen intent on survival.

Not yet ...

Day three might be a bit different Smile

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:16 am

yeah maybe..

I see your getting more confident msp3!!

where are all your indian mates by the way..

This forum needs more fans from other teams!!

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Post by Guest Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:17 am

Well I support Canada over England, but we're not likely to ever play test cricket, so...

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:23 am

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Well I support Canada over England, but we're not likely to ever play test cricket, so...

excellent Very Happy

we need more associates fans on here Very Happy

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:24 am

India take the new ball. possibly a good move by Dhoni as things were just drifting along a bit...

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India v England 4th Test, Nagpur - Page 3 Empty Re: India v England 4th Test, Nagpur

Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:28 am

somewhat bizarrely it's given to Jadeja rather than Sharma. Another maiden though.

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India v England 4th Test, Nagpur - Page 3 Empty Re: India v England 4th Test, Nagpur

Post by alfie Thu 13 Dec 2012, 10:29 am

New ball after 87 overs ...a spinner of course

This is certainly different Smile

And I really don't mind very local type pitch conditions...makes for variety in the international game. But this one is a bit poor for the first day of a match. Takes a few things out of the game from a spectator viewpoint...though I guess the locals won't care if India are able to win on it Very Happy

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