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India v England, Third ODI Ranchi

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Gerry SA
subhranshu.kumar.5
alfie
trebellbobaggins
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Biltong
guildfordbat
Duty281
Liam
Shelsey93
VTR
Mike Selig
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
msp83
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Post by msp83 Fri 18 Jan 2013, 2:28 pm

The third match of the 5 match ODI series between India and England will be played in Ranchi, the home city of Indian skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni.
The teams go into the match at 1 all, after India leveled the series with a huge win at Kochi having lost the opening match by 9 runs at Rajkot.
This is Dhoni's first match at his home city and Ranchi is all up for welcoming their local hero. It is a new stadium and Dhoni considers it as top quality in terms of facilities.
Going into the match, India have major concerns despite the massive win in the last match. The batting continues to be patchy and hyperreliant on the captain, whether that is saving the innings or setting it up big during the end overs. Gautam Gambhir has been struggling, Ajinkya Rahane hasn't got going in the series. Virat Kohli is experiencing his first real rough patch in ODIs and Yuvraj Singh hasn't really kicked on to a big score after getting a few starts. The law of averages could catch up with Dhoni, he should most certainly get support from his top order. Suresh Raina's reasonable consistency, and Ravindra Jadeja's innings in the last match give India some hope.
In the bowling department, Bhuvneshwar Kumar has stepped in well for his UP teammate Praveen Kumar, getting the new ball to swing big and taking a few early wickets and Dhoni would be hoping for more of the same. Shami Ahmed has done OK in the 2 ODIs he has played so far, and he should get another game tomorrow. Ishant Sharma, despite being the most experienced in that bowling unit has been struggling for impact, but it remains to be seen whether India would opt for someone else. The other relatively experienced bowler Ravichandran Ashwin too has been patchi so far in the series. Dhoni was hit on the thumb during practice, but he should be alright for tomorrow and although Gambhir and Ishant have been struggling it is unlikely India would change around a winning combination.
As for England, they had a good start to the series. Alastair Cook and Ian Bell have been among the runs at the top, and Pietersen has got off to 2 confident starts. Joe Root looked good in the last match, and Eoin Morgan is one of the top players in this format. Samit Patel has been doing a pretty good job down the order. Craig Kieswetter's hit or miss style of batting is a concern though. Should England think of Jos Buttler?
Tim Bresnan is fit again, and is likely to come in for Chris Woakes. Steven Finn and James Tredwell pick themselves, but Jade Dernbach has been leaking plenty of runs, although he managed to keep a check on Dhoni at times and picked up a few wickets.
Reports are that unlike the last match, the pitch for tomorrow's game is an ugly flat monster, where according to the curator, team batting first should be able to score 350 without fuss.
Dew is not expected to be a major factor, although there are chances of a little bit of rain.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 18 Jan 2013, 3:03 pm

Craig Kieswetter's hit or miss style of batting is a concern though. Should England think of Jos Buttler?

What a player with a hit or miss batting style?

Keissweter keeps doing just enough to keep him in the squad (also see Patel). Buttler is a bit of a like for like swap, whos had a couple of decent T20 innings recently but otherwise hasnt done much with the limited chances hes had so far.
Again though its typical England that hes played a fair number of T20s and only one ODI, despite getting called up off the back of his list A performances. That would suggest his strongest format is likely to be 50 over cricket. Keiswetter has arguably been a better 20 over player than he has a 40/50 over one. Woakes of course is best suited test cricket, so gets picked in the other formats and called rubbish.
And so it goes.

Whilst being no Dhoni, Keiswetter hardly has a bad ODI record, Id be surprissed to see him swapped out.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 18 Jan 2013, 3:11 pm

The issue with Kieswetter is the dot balls he plays out. But honestly this is an issue for Jadeja as well, I like the guy but a number 7 in ODI cricket he isn't. Even the other day, I thought he got away with it a bit, cos at the start of the innings he was playing out loads of dot balls, then got away with a couple of miscues, and then when settled did smash it around very well admitedly. But had that slice over mid-off gone to hand he'd have been out for something like 21 off 23. I think he either needs to go up the order to say number 5 where he'll have more time to play himself in, or down to number 8 where he'll either have to only face half-a-dozen deliveries, or he'll have to rebuild which he can do.

I do think Buttler could do a job at number 6 as a finisher for England though, but Kieswetter has done ok so far.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 18 Jan 2013, 3:33 pm

Thats why the moved Keis down the order, hes there on the assumption the plan has gone well ... the proper batsmen have made a decent number of runs at a medium rate, hes their to take on the death bowlers and clear the ropes. Death or glory. (first ODI)
The problem comes when the top order hasnt done its job and hes expected to try and salvage an innings (last game)
As a general rule though Englands plan has worked for them over the last year. Well enough to win the vast majority of their games since the last India tour.

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Post by VTR Fri 18 Jan 2013, 3:58 pm

Good points on Keiswetter's role. Think we are missing Trott's stability at the top of the order. If Bell or Cook go early there's no one else you'd really back to dig in. It all went to pot very quickly in the last game once the openers were out.


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Post by Guest Fri 18 Jan 2013, 4:11 pm

i would like to see this side tomorrow

1.Ian Bell
2.Alastair Cook (c)
3.KP
4.Eoin Morgan
5.Joe Root
6.Jos Buttler (wk)
7.Samit Patel
8.James Tredwell
9.Chris Woakes
10.Steven Finn
11.Stuart Meaker

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Post by Shelsey93 Fri 18 Jan 2013, 4:25 pm

For tomorrow I would bring Meaker in for Woakes. Other than that no need for further changes in my view. I don't want to leave myself with just 2 seamers, and I can't really drop Patel (who's had a good series so far) so no chance for Briggs. Meanwhile, I think scapegoating of Kieswetter after the last game was a bit unfair. I'm no big fan of his but, as others have said, he's done enough over the last year to keep his place (but only just).

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Post by Liam Fri 18 Jan 2013, 4:37 pm

Nah keep Kieswetter, not many other options. I'd drop Dernbach, he's not performing really and i really like Meaker. Him and Finn up front is some serious pace with the new ball.

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Post by Shelsey93 Fri 18 Jan 2013, 5:04 pm

I wouldn't keep Dernbach after this series (unless he performs particularly well) but I do think he has a talent at the death. He's much better then than Woakes or Meaker.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 18 Jan 2013, 5:10 pm

The winner of this ODI will probably win the series. I'm going to say England will win tomorrow by a pretty comfortable 60 run/6 wicket margin. I'd be very tempted to give Meaker a go tomorrow seeing as how the Indian batsman struggle with pace.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 18 Jan 2013, 6:02 pm

Duty281 wrote:The winner of this ODI will probably win the series. I'm going to say England will win tomorrow by a pretty comfortable 60 run/6 wicket margin. I'd be very tempted to give Meaker a go tomorrow seeing as how the Indian batsman struggle with pace.
Duty - I don't share your optimism for tomorrow.

I'm not going to say we were lucky in the first ODI as we weren't - overall, we deserved victory.

That said, I'm not convinced enough credit has been given to Samit Patel for his undefeated knock of 44 off just 20 balls at the close of our innings. Probably as much as anything, that gave us our narrow win in the end. Whilst I'm a far bigger supporter of Patel than many on this thread, I think it also needs to be recognised that he's unlikely to repeat that type of performance too often. That doesn't mean someone else can't step up to the plate tomorrow and so I wouldn't automatically write off our chances. However, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we scraped home in the first ODI and pretty much got hammered last time out. I've been around long enough to know nothing can be ruled out but that's not the ideal background for your predicted ''pretty comfortable'' win.

Like you and Shelsey, I would like to see Meaker given a game. He's certainly got pace and, in my view, is far more likely to make the grade in any form of international cricket than Woakes.

As for Dernbach, we need to accept, as the Corporal astutely flagged a while back, that on his day he can be near devastating but that won't be too often. The Corporal likened him to being a one in four bowler; very good once every four matches and average to middling to poor in the other three. I think that's about right. This doesn't mean he should be binned but it needs to be recognised there is always a risk with his selection.

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Post by msp83 Fri 18 Jan 2013, 6:31 pm

Mike Selig wrote:The issue with Kieswetter is the dot balls he plays out. But honestly this is an issue for Jadeja as well, I like the guy but a number 7 in ODI cricket he isn't. Even the other day, I thought he got away with it a bit, cos at the start of the innings he was playing out loads of dot balls, then got away with a couple of miscues, and then when settled did smash it around very well admitedly. But had that slice over mid-off gone to hand he'd have been out for something like 21 off 23. I think he either needs to go up the order to say number 5 where he'll have more time to play himself in, or down to number 8 where he'll either have to only face half-a-dozen deliveries, or he'll have to rebuild which he can do.

I do think Buttler could do a job at number 6 as a finisher for England though, but Kieswetter has done ok so far.
Mike the issue with Jadeja in the past was that he couldn't produce the big hits during the end overs. He could get the singles and run between like anything, the big shots never really came through with any real effect. But in the last innings, he in fact struggled with the singles as you rightly observed, but managed to produce the big hits. Perhaps the last innings would be he beginning of a turn around for Jadeja. Regardless of the regular stick he gets from many India supporters, I feel he's a valuable cricketer in the ODI format and should be part of th side, consistently, particularly since the new regularations have reduced the impact of the parttime bowlers. Batting him at 5 and pushing Raina who has the ability to smash it from ball one down to 7 could be an option that could be looked into if Jadeja's old batting problems come back regularly. Or if its about 3-4 overs only remaining, then perhaps Ravichandran Ashwin could be promoted ahead of Jadeja.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 18 Jan 2013, 8:35 pm

The reason dernbach will stay for this game is England need wickets, he and Finn both (sometimes) supply those...the only other threat is Tredwell.
Long term he needs to cut down the loose deliveries, if anything its even worse in this format than T20 to give away easy boundaries. One of those cricketers who frustrates by showing signs of something special whilst being mediocre in other ways.
Woakes just looks ineffective, like Bresnan. If Briggs could vaguely pretend to bat id argue for going big on the spinners who India have struggled to score off, and hope the two seamers can take a few wickets.

Its kinda hard to suggest obvious changes when a side was comprehensively outplayed in batting and bowling and dont have any genuinely good players sat waiting to come in

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 6:25 am

India have won the toss, and decided to bowl. Dhoni reckons dew could be more of a factor and there could be little bit of life early on. Cook said he would also have bowled first.
India are unchanged, for England, Tim Bresnan is back in place of Chris Woakes.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 6:49 am

England openers trying to see the newishness of the ball and the expected early life in the pitch through, 7 without loss after 4 overs.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:00 am

India aren't letting England run away with it, but England have done very well not to lose any early wicket. Cook is slowly opening up, and they are 20-0 after 7 overs. Couple of good overs, that run rate will be taken care of.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:01 am

Its like Boycott and Dravid batting to save a test on day 4

He says as Cook finaly gets going!

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:03 am

picard

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:09 am

Cook out to Shami Ahmed, Pietersen joining Bell. Bhuvneshwar Kumar is moving the ball very well, KP has to take his time before opening up. 29-1 after 9.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:13 am

Bell scored almost twice as many runs in the 8th over as he had in the first 7 combined
His excessive caution at the start may have contributed to Cook taking undue risks

Looks like both batsmen accumulating now at least

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:15 am

Urghh my internets being a dick<duplicate post>


Last edited by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:24 am

Ishant Sharma into the attack, and KP wasting no time in taking him on. 2 boundaries in Sharma's first over, England's first 50 up in the 12th over.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:29 am

Spin into the attack after just the one over from Ishant Sharma that went for 10. Ravindra Jadeja on.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:31 am

After scoring 27 in the previous overs, a little bit of control for Dhoni, Jadeja giving away only 4 in his first over. England 66-1 after 14.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:32 am

Oh, Ishant is back from the other end, replacing Bhuvneshwar Kumar.

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Post by Biltong Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:34 am

First 9 overs were quite slow for England, but looks much better after a couple od good overs.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:36 am

KPoo not a happy bunny

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Post by Biltong Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:38 am

Wellhe looked good whilst it lasted, missed his dismissal as I switched to the start of the SA vs NZ match
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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:43 am

I just went away for 10 minutes and England have lost 2 quick wickets. The big wicket of Kevin Pietersen went to Ishant and Dhoni then did well to bring Kumar back on and he took out Ian Bell. 68-3 in the 16th over.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:44 am

Biltong wrote:Wellhe looked good whilst it lasted, missed his dismissal as I switched to the start of the SA vs NZ match

Terrible decision met with his usual sulk.
Oh DRS!

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:47 am

Well, KP had every reason to be unhappy, there was no edge. The bat hitting the pad, and then the ball brushing the trousers, no contact between bat and ball. Unfortunate for Pietersen, a big slice of good fortune for Ishant Sharma and India.
And on a larger note, the poor umpiring in the series continues. There were a few mistakes at Kochi, and the umpires haven't had the best of starts here as well.

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Post by eirebilly Sat 19 Jan 2013, 7:53 am

Wll Moggs is still there so England are still able to get a decent total
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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:02 am

Bhuvneshwar Kumar bowling out early yet again. A good spell from him, 1-40 in his 10 overs.

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Post by eirebilly Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:04 am

I still think that India will win this series either 3-2 or 4-1

They are not as bad as is being made out
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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:15 am

Now this is interesting, we are into the 23rd over, and so far the spinners have bowled only 2 of those. The seamers have to be back for the powerplay, meaning the spinners will be bowling deep into the innings. A very interesting move indeed from Dhoni.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:19 am

Root, like he did in the last match, is looking good here as well. He really is one for the future for England. A batsman of a quality temprament, and he can bowl a bit as well. And Morgan goes, big blow for England, Ashwin's the man for India.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:23 am

Morgan really didn't need to take that chance, reverse sweep, not well executed, and it didn't look good at all. Challenge for Kieswetter, he has to keep the singles going, something he hasn't quite managed well regularly, and now Jadeja strikes!, Kieswetter can forget those singles, he's gone cleaned bowled!.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:24 am

Samit Patel has had a very impressive ODI series so far, now is the chance to play a big innings and save his team. He did set up the first match in some style, but the situation demands a different kind of an innings.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:26 am

Oh!. Double wicket over from Jadeja there, England are collapsing only like they can do, 98-6, Patel goes without scoring.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:32 am

ermm.. Jadeja!!!


Ouch.. Tough times

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:01 am

msp83 wrote:Samit Patel has had a very impressive ODI series so far, one very good innings with the bat and one game where he kept the run rate down with some controlled bowling, now is the chance to play a big innings and save his team make up for his failure with the bat by actually taking a wicket or 4 which is Englands only hope in this match. He did set up the first match in some style, but the situation demands a different kind of an innings. thats pretty much a one off for a frustrating player

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:09 am

Root's gone, good catch from Dhoni, Sharma gets the wicket, so after a bit of resistance, Root failes to carry on, like it happened in the last match.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:10 am

we need to try and get to 190

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:12 am

Now Bresnan goes, Ashwin with his 2nd, England 145-8.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:15 am

what sort of team is this that england have picked anyway!! talk about understrength in the bolwing.. Jeas

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:15 am

Good to see Ashwin getting that wicket with a classic offy, that turned in quite a bit, tossing it upside off, big turn, got it through the gate.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:17 am

But its the batting that has been a big letdown, not so much the bowling.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:18 am

England have made a right mess of this haven't they? Every run is crucial now, we need to get as close to 200 as possible - that will give our bowlers something to defend.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:20 am

one win was the most England could have even hoped for from this poor selection.

they deserve these bashings really. take it seriously in future or just stop scheduling far more series than needed.

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India v England, Third ODI Ranchi Empty Re: India v England, Third ODI Ranchi

Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:26 am

msp83 wrote:But its the batting that has been a big letdown, not so much the bowling.
the batting has been a shambles for ages.

this isn't good for india either. a properly selected England would seriously question where they are, this just allows them to paper over the cracks.

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