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India v England, Fourth ODI, Mohali

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trebellbobaggins
VTR
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
alfie
Pal Joey
guildfordbat
subhranshu.kumar.5
rwalton9
dummy_half
mystiroakey
Duty281
msp83
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Post by msp83 Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

The 4th match of the ongoing series between India and England takes place tomorrow at the PCA stadium Mohali.
India are 2-1 up in the series and would want to rap the series up here itself. Over the last couple of matches, the bowling unit clicked together, providing quite some relief to skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni, although the led bowler Ishant Sharma's inconsistencies should be a matter of concern. In the batting department, there has been too much reliance on the captain in recent times, but the return to form of Virat Kohli in the last match again provides Dhoni some space. The opening is a trouble spot, Gautam Gambhir's struggles have now extended into ODI cricket as well, and Ajinkya Rahane hasn't been able to take his chances. It is unlikely though that Cheteshwar Pujara would make his ODI debut tomorrow, as the team management may not opt to change a winning combination.
After a promising start to the series, familiar problems have returned to haunt England. The 2 batting collapses in the last 2 matches were quite dreadful. Although James Tredwell has stepped in well for Graeme Swann, Steven Finn bowled well, and Joe Root and Samit Patel combined well for the 5th bowler duties, the support seamers, Jade Dernbach, Tim Bresnan and Chris Wokes were very disappointing so far. There are hints that hard hitting wicketkeeper Jos Buttler might come in for the inconsistent Craig Kieswetter, and Dernbach might give way to Stuart Meaker.
Conditions won't be too demanding for England, and in fact, there should be some life for their quicks on the Mohali track.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:50 pm

141-3 off 29. We need one wicket, ideally two, very soon ....

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Post by mystiroakey Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:52 pm

england got 100 runs of the last 10- india have 20 overs and only have 110 to win!!


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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:54 pm

To be fair that boundary should be the last ball Dernbach bolws in ODIs

So long and thanks for all the fish. get your hair cut.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:56 pm

From TMS:
Dernbach Meaker and Woakes are competing for a single spot in the NZ tour still to be announced, Dernbachs been given the games in this series but failed even more than Woakes has (if thats possible). Meakers not even been tried out.

So do you go for the experienced guy you have faith in whos been mullered, the all rounder who cant bat or bowl, or the less good version of Finn that you have demonstrated absolutely no faith in?

Great choice

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:00 pm

Thank god for the more good version of finn.

....in comes Dhoni, oh well.

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Post by msp83 Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:13 pm

The umpiring standards continue to be poor in the seris, Cook, Gambhir and Sharma were all done with poor calls.

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Post by alfie Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:18 pm

I do not wish to be uncharitable to Dernbach , but I was very surprised he retained his place for this game ...wondering why Meaker was brought to India if they have no intention of using him. But surely he will get the dead rubber at least...
Not sure if we will see Dernbach in an England shirt again after this ...I would imagine Woakes will go to NZ , though only as a reserve because Jimmy and Broad will be back.

As for this match ...all we need is a hat trick Smile

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Post by msp83 Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:21 pm

Stumping appeal against Raina of Root, he seems ok.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:24 pm

tidy by root..

india still well on top though.



Yeahhh!!!


NOOOOO- finns wicket is a no wicket.,

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Post by msp83 Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:26 pm

Well well well!!!!. This was on the cards, Finn gets a wicket, but alas, he has smashed the stumps at his end!. Not for the first time, doesn't reflect well on the coaches!.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:26 pm

Its really not englands day, Finn knocks the stumps whilst bowling what otherwise wouldve been a wicket taking ball.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:28 pm

finn is too gangly.. His body goes all over the shop.. I think its unfair that he shoudl get punished..Its predudiced against his action.. Poor finn. poor england Sad

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Post by VTR Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:29 pm

That's not bad luck though. Finn keeps doing this, he is an international bowler and the knocking over of the stumps really needs to stop now.

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Post by alfie Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:33 pm

Raina safe - just - but good work from Butler.

And now a big moment as Finn gets Raina caught at slip ...but it won't count as he knocked over the stumps at his end...dead ball !
He really has to eradicate this fault , does it far too often. In my mind it makes his otherwise strong case for a regular Test spot just a little less than certain.
(whether the dead ball ought to automatically apply in these cases is another argument )

The little things haven't gone England's way today...but India deserve to win , game and series. Better balanced team , and the batsmen have generally kept their heads better. Good for them.

Dhoni will end the tour with something to smile about , at least.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:35 pm

Excuse my gibberish


Seriously- yes he shouldnt make an amatuer mistake like that!


India only need 60 or so from 13-- its childs play tbh!!



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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:09 pm

alfie wrote:I actually fancy England to defend this.

Will need all the seamers to keep their minds on the job though ( looking at you , Dernbach ) so India have to work for their runs...don't want to be donating a bunch of wides and short rubbish.

...of course Yuvraj or Dhoni could make a joke of this theory on their own , but I'm feeling optimistic...

I blame Alfie. Don't think he looked hard enough at Dernbach! Very Happy

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Post by trebellbobaggins Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:10 pm

slightly better from England but still way short of the standard needed.

I wonder if they'll select so poorly in future?

and I wonder if India will live off this now or accept it's a bits and pieces side and the Pakistan series was a better indication of where they are?

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Post by mystiroakey Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:13 pm

I have no idea why the no.1 odi side in the world at the time(england) in the hardest place to play in the world(v india in india) wouldnt put out the best possible side..

The only positive out of this tour is Root!!

Why the heck didnt we rest players v NZ instead??

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:19 pm

VTR wrote:That's not bad luck though. Finn keeps doing this, he is an international bowler and the knocking over of the stumps really needs to stop now.

+1.

I agree with the Cricinfo column http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/601315.html - knocking the stumps over should be a no-ball, not just dead ball
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Post by trebellbobaggins Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:25 pm

mystiroakey wrote:I have no idea why the no.1 odi side in the world at the time(england) in the hardest place to play in the world(v india in india) wouldnt put out the best possible side..

The only positive out of this tour is Root!!

Why the heck didnt we rest players v NZ instead??
The only thing we seem to be really good at at the moment is losing the number one spot. We wanted the full set!

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Post by msp83 Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:00 pm

In the end India did it comfottably, and for a change, the captain wasn't there to do it all by himself. Good knock from Raina, this time staying the course and finishing the job. An understated, but crucial all-round role from Ravindra Jadeja, had he got soon after Dhoni, England could have been right back in it. Instead he calmly supported Raina and saw the chase through.
It was an excellent spell from Bhuvneshwar Kumar at the top although he didn't get any wicket. Young Shami Ahmed, although went for a few in the middle and end spells, supported Bhuvi well with the new ball. Ishant Sharma had a pretty good game and he even managed to get in a valuable yorker to get KP at a very important moment. Jadeja was superb with the ball, containing the runs, and picking up 3 wickets. Ashwin picked up 2 wickets, although he went for a few.
Well on Rohit Sharma, strictly in the context of the game, it was good. I would certainly wait quite a bit even before hoping, let alone judging. As MS said at the presentation, he's a gifted player, but his temprament wasn't up to it. Lets see whether this is the beginning of something better, or yet another false dawn.
When will they drop Gambhir?

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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:16 pm

Msp - very vaild comments. Feel Dhoni's role with the bat also merits a bit of praise. He only scored 19 but stuck around with Yuvraj to put on 55. Had he gone straightaway, that really would have put pressure on Jadeja and those after him.

Not a shameful England performance but not good enough. Too far behind the clock when batting the first 40 overs. The bowers then ranging from ''ok to poor'' whilst we want them ''good to ok''.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:19 pm

3-1 down, probably be 4-1 in fairness. Can't read too much into this series for either team, with the absence of England's first choice bowling attack bar Finn. Can't wait for this tour to be over, we got what we came for in mid December! Roll on the Kiwis, we haven't played them in a series for around 5 years!

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Post by chrisss Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:31 pm

Root has got to be added to the NZ ODI squad, surely?

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Post by VTR Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:44 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
VTR wrote:That's not bad luck though. Finn keeps doing this, he is an international bowler and the knocking over of the stumps really needs to stop now.

+1.

I agree with the Cricinfo column http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/601315.html - knocking the stumps over should be a no-ball, not just dead ball

That seems fair to me. And maybe that would finally encourage Finn to stop this schoolboy habit of his! He is going to be a great bowler I feel, but this is going to hold him back a bit until sorted. Crucial wickets are going begging.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:15 pm

mystiroakey wrote:

Why the heck didnt we rest players v NZ instead??

Probably because the current ODIs are seen as a build up to the chumps trophy, played in England. Give the fringe players a chance to make their case for inclusion in the squad, then play that squad together trying out combinations in similar conditions (NZ) Only thing with the NZ series is they have loads of T20s and less ODIs.
That this tour had a natural break in it anyway made it easier to reduce travelling and maximise the rest for those players.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:26 pm

Well that looks like the much predicted end of Dernbach's ODI career!

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Post by Gerry SA Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:27 pm

Duty281 wrote:3-1 down, probably be 4-1 in fairness. Can't read too much into this series for either team, with the absence of England's first choice bowling attack bar Finn. Can't wait for this tour to be over, we got what we came for in mid December! Roll on the Kiwis, we haven't played them in a series for around 5 years!
Swann aside, when have Anderson or Broad ever done well in India against India in ODIs?

IIRC Anderson failed to even take a wicket in the last 5-0 whitewash.

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