New Zealand vs England 2013 - Series Page

While we'll likely have individual match threads, I figured I'd set this up for general pre-series stuff.

Tour fixtures:

Spoiler:

An NZ XI squad has been named for the tour opener T20s:
Andrew Ellis (capt), Anton Devcich, Colin Munro, Hamish Rutherford, Ian Butler, Jimmy Neesham, Luke Ronchi, Matthew Henry, Michael Bates, Neil Broom, Neil Wagner, Nick Beard, Ross Taylor, Tom Latham

NZ T20 squad:
Brendon McCullum (capt),
Trent Boult,
Ian Butler,
Grant Elliott,
Andrew Ellis,
James Franklin,
Martin Guptill,
Roneel Hira,
Mitchell McClenaghan,
Nathan McCullum,
Colin Munro,
Hamish Rutherford,
Ross Taylor

NZ One-day squad:
Brendon McCullum (capt),
Trent Boult,
Grant Elliott,
Andrew Ellis,
James Franklin,
Martin Guptill,
Mitchell McClenaghan,
Nathan McCullum,
Kyle Mills,
Colin Munro,
Ross Taylor,
BJ Watling,
Kane Williamson


England T20 Squad
Stuart Broad (captain),
Jonny Bairstow,
Danny Briggs,
Jos Buttler,
Jade Dernbach,
Steven Finn,
Alex Hales,
Michael Lumb,
Stuart Meaker,
Eoin Morgan,
Samit Patel,
James Tredwell,
Chris Woakes,
Luke Wright.

England ODI Squad
Alastair Cook (captain),
James Anderson,
Jonny Bairstow,
Ian Bell,
Stuart Broad,
Jos Buttler,
Steven Finn,
James Harris,
Eoin Morgan,
Samit Patel,
Joe Root,
Graeme Swann,
James Tredwell,
Jonathan Trott,
Chris Woakes.

England Test Squad
Alastair Cook (capt),
Nick Compton,
Jonathan Trott,
Kevin Pietersen,
Ian Bell,
Joe Root,
Jonny Bairstow,
Matt Prior,
Chris Woakes,
Stuart Broad,
Graeme Swann,
Steven Finn,
James Anderson,
Monty Panesar,
Graham Onions

Taylor coming back will be a welcome return for the Kiwi's.

This is the England squad, I'm expecting.

Cook
Compton
Root
Trott
Pietersen
Bell

Prior
Bairstow

Swann
Panaser

Anderson
Finn
Onions
Broad
Bresnan

That will most likely be the squad... I'd take Meaker over Bresnan personally

Personally, I'd like to see Onions get selected ahead of Broad.

Test Squad being named tomorrow for England. Nice to see we get the limited overs stuff out of the way first, before the more important business of the tour. Cricinfo say this will be the probable England squad:

Alastair Cook (capt), Nick Compton, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Joe Root, Jonny Bairstow, Matt Prior, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Steven Finn, Graham Onions, Monty Panesar

I wouldn't disagree with that either. From there my 1st XI would be:

Cook, Compton, Trott, KP, Bell, Root, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Finn.

chrisss wrote:Personally, I'd like to see Onions get selected ahead of Broad.

In the team?

I agree.

Duty281 wrote:Test Squad being named tomorrow for England. Nice to see we get the limited overs stuff out of the way first, before the more important business of the tour. Cricinfo say this will be the probable England squad:

Alastair Cook (capt), Nick Compton, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Joe Root, Jonny Bairstow, Matt Prior, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Steven Finn, Graham Onions, Monty Panesar

I wouldn't disagree with that either. From there my 1st XI would be:

Cook, Compton, Trott, KP, Bell, Root, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Finn.

So you're okay with Bres in the squad?

ShankyCricket wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Test Squad being named tomorrow for England. Nice to see we get the limited overs stuff out of the way first, before the more important business of the tour. Cricinfo say this will be the probable England squad:

Alastair Cook (capt), Nick Compton, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Joe Root, Jonny Bairstow, Matt Prior, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Steven Finn, Graham Onions, Monty Panesar

I wouldn't disagree with that either. From there my 1st XI would be:

Cook, Compton, Trott, KP, Bell, Root, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Finn.

So you're okay with Bres in the squad?

Indeed.

Avg 50 last year and 210 in his last 4 Tests. I think we have better options tbh. Its insulting to Meaker and co if the selectors think Bres is a better option.

I mentioned this in the 4th India ODI match thread, but I'll mention it here as well: surely Root has got to be added to the ODI squad.

Would like to see this Test squad (I know it won't happen but still....)

Cook(c) Compton Trott KP Bell Root Prior Swann Onions Finn Anderson Bairstow TRJ Meaker Panesar Taylor

I'd say the Kiwis will be happy that the limited overs stuff is first.

As they showed against South Africa(still crying ) they are more that good enough to beat anyone in the shorter formats.

I'd say that the Kiwis could build some momentum ahead of the Tests by winning the limited overs contests.

Gerry SA wrote:I'd say the Kiwis will be happy that the limited overs stuff is first.

As they showed against South Africa(still crying ) they are more that good enough to beat anyone in the shorter formats.

I'd say that the Kiwis could build some momentum ahead of the Tests by winning the limited overs contests.

Well for the tests, they now have a few of their best players back like Southee, Vettori and their leading batsman Ross Taylor. Also throw in former Australian wicketkeeper Luke Ronchi into the test side and suddenly New Zealand have a strongish and very healthy test XI again. People must remember that NZ aren't that bad at test cricket as they did manage to beat Australia in a test match in 2011 in their own backward and not many teams have managed this in recent times apart from England in 2010 and South Africa last year. A very strong India team got absolutely thrashed by Australia at the start of 2012 in test matches.

The Test Squad has been announced:

England Test squad
Cook (captain), Anderson, Bairstow, Bell, Broad, Compton, Finn, Onions, Panesar, Pietersen, Prior, Root, Swann, Trott, Woakes

Bresnan has been dropped from the ODI and t20 squads, Kieswetter has been dropped from the ODI squad, Woakes has been added to the ODI and t20 squads and James Harris has been added to the ODI squad.

The ODI squad named a few weeks back has been ripped up... Kieswetter, Dernbach and Bresnan (injured) out and Harris, Woakes and Root in.

A sensible selection I think, although it begs the question as to why they named the original squad in the first place!

Woakes in the Test squad. Interesting.

Why hasn't James Taylor been given a chance to get further test match experience on the NZ tour for the 2 upcoming Ashes test series? He has only played 1 test match for England and did well enough with the bat unlike others in the England team when we played SA last summer.

I think Taylor has been left out as although he did okay, Compton, Root and Bairstow did better with their opportunities. As Cook, Bell, KP and Trott will play, you still have 3 to choose from for 2 places.

Also didn't he play in 2 or 3 Tests in the summer?

Root & Compton have justified their spots.

Also we can't send a Hobbit to NZ as he may be drafted into the films and never come back!

Compton did a lot for England in India - his battling starts spread the field, and arguably did a lot to prevent the type of batting display seen in the UAE. That said, he always seemed more comfortable when Cook was in, and so will probably need a century in this series.

Root justified No. 6, which I think he's suited to.

Bairstow has to go as spare, because he's also covering for Prior.

Bold move, an exciting move, but it is the right move? Time will tell, until then good luck to Woakes.

Im not sure Compton so much justified his spot as did enough to retain it because they dont want to ex[pose Root at the top of the order right now and Trott was never ever going to be an opener.
Hes more an "in the context of what is available" pick than a must have.

Woakes is a big surprise but Im glad they took the punt on him. His limited overs record has been woeful, but first class cricket has been his best format domestically so its always struck me as daft that hes never been given a shot at the test squad whilst getting a fair few T20s and ODIs.
Although it does appear hes an injury replacement for Bresnan and unlikely to play. In a like for like hes an obvious replacement i guess. If he does somehow get a game and performs well that could see him replace Bresnan ( whos forms been poor in all formats) longer term.

The ODI squad is understandably a mess. Of the fringe players given a chance in India only Root really came out with credit ...and he was always just a place sitter for trott.

So glad Woakes has eventually got a punt in the test format and that the ECB have realised that his ability is more suited to the longer format. I bet this kid can bat 7 for England and his line and length bowling will be more than good enough for 3rd seam bowler behind Jimmy and Finn! Check his First Class stats with the bat they are better than many a batsman in the First Division! 25 with the ball 38 with the bat..

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Im not sure Compton so much justified his spot as did enough to retain it because they dont want to ex[pose Root at the top of the order right now and Trott was never ever going to be an opener.
Hes more an "in the context of what is available" pick than a must have.

I disagree. His contributions were vitally important. However, as I said, if he has a poor series in NZ there are other options.

I like Root at 6 TBH.

Trouble is, if Compton does have a medioce series, then Root may be asked to open, as we have Taylor, Bairstow and Morgan who like to bat in the middle order.
I hope it doesn't come to that. Compton looked like a good old fashioned test player, just needs a ton or a couple of fifties etc.

rwalton9 wrote:So glad Woakes has eventually got a punt in the test format and that the ECB have realised that his ability is more suited to the longer format. I bet this kid can bat 7 for England and his line and length bowling will be more than good enough for 3rd seam bowler behind Jimmy and Finn! Check his First Class stats with the bat they are better than many a batsman in the First Division! 25 with the ball 38 with the bat..

Do you think that the selectors included Woakes purely because they want to try out a 5 man bowling attack with Prior at 6 for the upcoming ashes series?

No they selected him because Bresnan is injured.

Stella wrote:Trouble is, if Compton does have a medioce series, then Root may be asked to open, as we have Taylor, Bairstow and Morgan who like to bat in the middle order.
I hope it doesn't come to that. Compton looked like a good old fashioned test player, just needs a ton or a couple of fifties etc.

Taylor will end up at the top of the order for England I feel. He has the attributes for an opener e.g. plays late, comfortable off the back foot, can play a long innings and prefers pace to spin. I can't see him batting below four in the long run (if he cements himself next time he gets a chance) whereas Bairstow and Morgan are definitely more suited to 4/5/6. Plus, in my fantasy world, I like the idea of a tall leftie in Cook opening with a man of Taylor's stature. Would offer problems to the bowlers, that is for sure. Certainly in ODI cricket, I think Taylor is a top three player.

I do like Compton though, if he can get a ton early on in his series then he could push on and really start to feel at home.

JDizzle wrote:

Stella wrote:Trouble is, if Compton does have a medioce series, then Root may be asked to open, as we have Taylor, Bairstow and Morgan who like to bat in the middle order.
I hope it doesn't come to that. Compton looked like a good old fashioned test player, just needs a ton or a couple of fifties etc.

Taylor will end up at the top of the order for England I feel. He has the attributes for an opener e.g. plays late, comfortable off the back foot, can play a long innings and prefers pace to spin. I can't see him batting below four in the long run (if he cements himself next time he gets a chance) whereas Bairstow and Morgan are definitely more suited to 4/5/6. Plus, in my fantasy world, I like the idea of a tall leftie in Cook opening with a man of Taylor's stature. Would offer problems to the bowlers, that is for sure. Certainly in ODI cricket, I think Taylor is a top three player.

I do like Compton though, if he can get a ton early on in his series then he could push on and really start to feel at home.

Rubbish. Taylor bats more like Kevin Pietersen than an orthodox opening batsman such as Nick Compton. Taylor may be a fine attacking batsman but does he really have the defensive technique needed against high class express bowling dished out by the likes of Pat Cummins, James Pattinson, Jackson Bird, Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood when the wicket is offering assistance to the new ball bowler and/or their is plenty of overhead cloud cover, I'm not really sure as Taylor isn't a proper opening batsman even for his county team.

The short James Taylor who likes to play on the back foot and will get as far back in his crease as possible to the faster bowlers whilst scoring runs mainly square of the wicket bats like KP who will very rarely play off the back foot and almost never from his crease against the quick men and who scores very heavily down the ground? They are nothing alike.

Alastair Cook had a weakness on and around off stump and will still occasionally push at the ball there, but due to his mental strength he has found a way to make this technique work (with some technical improvements, granted). Taylor is not the classical opener but that is where I see his future.

JDizzle wrote:The short James Taylor who likes to play on the back foot and will get as far back in his crease as possible to the faster bowlers whilst scoring runs mainly square of the wicket bats like KP who will very rarely play off the back foot and almost never from his crease against the quick men and who scores very heavily down the ground? They are nothing alike.

Alastair Cook had a weakness on and around off stump and will still occasionally push at the ball there, but due to his mental strength he has found a way to make this technique work (with some technical improvements, granted). Taylor is not the classical opener but that is where I see his future.

They are in the sense that both prefer scoring shots on the legside.

Bresnan is injured it seems, but he at the moment doesn't deserve a place in any of the squads. Dernbach too had to go after that horrible performance in the ODI series in India. Interesting to see Woakes in the test squad, he won't be the first choice bowler, but if he gets an opportunity, that could be interesting, as I have a feeling his batting is better than that of Bresnan or Broad. Test cricket might just be more suited to his style of bowling as well. Will Onions get a game? I hope so, and I believe he'll be pretty useful in NZ conditions.
As for the ODI squad, when Jonathan Trott comes back, who has to go? Bell? Patel? Root? I would certainly love to see young Root in there, and I believe Pietersen should be back to opening. Cook, KP and Morgan pick themselves.
Bell has done OK after his comeback last year, but even then I had my doubts, and in this series he did struggle up front in the last 3 matches, getting out early in the 2nd game, and that could happen to anyone, but in the other couple of games, he struggled to get going for a rather longish stretch, put pressure on the batsman at the other end, and then got out without scoring big runs. But his overall record over the last 7-8 months is pretty ok.
Trott has a fantastic ODI average, and has scored big ODI runs. But he often bats one paced, and can't really provide the end over momentom to the innings.
Patel is a useful ODI cricketer. The new ODI regulation places more importance on a decent 5th bowling option. Trott or Pietersen aren't quite up to the task with the ball in ODIs. Patel can score some quick runs in the end overs.
Root in his young international career, has shown a fine temprament. As an ODI batsman, he has a greater range of shots than Trott has and can adjust the pace of his innings according to the situation. Besides, his bowling is much better than that of KP or Trott.

Msp. ..root isn't in the odi squad , that question is already answers

Root has been added to the ODI squad. In any case we shouldn't build Root up too far - I don't think he's yet good enough to score the 100s that Bell will. I know he's not always fashionable, but he's a top player.

Shelsey93 wrote:Root has been added to the ODI squad. In any case we shouldn't build Root up too far - I don't think he's yet good enough to score the 100s that Bell will. I know he's not always fashionable, but he's a top player.

Aside from the fact that Bell has only 2 100s in 123 ODIs.

I think you're being far too pro-Bell, Shels. Need to look at it from a wider perspective.

Shelsey93 wrote:Root has been added to the ODI squad. In any case we shouldn't build Root up too far - I don't think he's yet good enough to score the 100s that Bell will. I know he's not always fashionable, but he's a top player.

Bell depends far too much on a good start. Doesn't have the patience to ride out the tough periods. KP should probably open, I think.

As you know, I disagree. ODI 100s are hard to get, and England players seem to get them particularly infrequently. In fact, only 16 England players have ever got more than 2 100s, and only Pietersen (9), Cook (5), Trott (3) and Morgan (3*) are current. When you consider that he hasn't always batted top 3 (where most 100s come from), he's not doing that badly. In fact, his conversion rate is quite average - whilst that is something we need to work on, he has 3 more 50s than Trescothick got in a similar number of games (Trescothick is England's leading 100-maker with 12).

We also know that Bell isn't always at his best in Asia. But he's improved as the tour has gone on, and the fact is that England don't play an ODI in Asia for some time now - in fact only 5 in Sri Lanka in 2014 before the next World Cup.

Besides, he has a 50 in this series and was superb last summer.

* Plus 1 for Ireland against another associate

So on one hand you say ODI 100s are hard to get but at the same time say, Root should not be picked because he won't score hundreds.

It of course is too early to build Root up too much, but he has shown a good attitude and temprament so far in his career. Besides, Bell certainly hasn't been too much of a hundred scorer in his ODI career, even after his comeback, has just the 1 hundred against the West Indies. The question to be asked is what is good for the tem? Should Bell or KP open? I'd say the latter. If not opening, where else should Bell bat? Can England have a top 6 that include both Bell and Trott? If they go with a top 5 of Cook, Pietersen, Bell, Trott and Morgan, and select Bairstow or Buttler as the wicketkeeper, who would provide the 10 overst of the 5th bowler?

ShankyCricket wrote:So on one hand you say ODI 100s are hard to get but at the same time say, Root should not be picked because he won't score hundreds.

I think Bell is more likely to score ODI 100s (or at least 75+s) on a regular basis than Root is at this stage. Root now my first reserve for when one of the top 4 are resting.

100s are important - much of England's success in the last year has come off the back of us realising that we need players who score them at the top: Cook, KP and Bell. I don't know why anyone would want to meddle with that.

Its not just Asia where he has struggled in ODIs. His record in Australia is p**s poor.

msp83 wrote:It of course is too early to build Root up too much, but he has shown a good attitude and temprament so far in his career. Besides, Bell certainly hasn't been too much of a hundred scorer in his ODI career, even after his comeback, has just the 1 hundred against the West Indies. The question to be asked is what is good for the tem? Should Bell or KP open? I'd say the latter. If not opening, where else should Bell bat? Can England have a top 6 that include both Bell and Trott? If they go with a top 5 of Cook, Pietersen, Bell, Trott and Morgan, and select Bairstow or Buttler as the wicketkeeper, who would provide the 10 overst of the 5th bowler?

We shouldn't need the 5th bowler. I would still drop Patel. I'm not too worried about Bresnan/ Broad/ Woakes/ Swann batting 7.

Shelsey93 wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:So on one hand you say ODI 100s are hard to get but at the same time say, Root should not be picked because he won't score hundreds.

I think Bell is more likely to score ODI 100s (or at least 75+s) on a regular basis than Root is at this stage. Root now my first reserve for when one of the top 4 are resting.

100s are important - much of England's success in the last year has come off the back of us realising that we need players who score them at the top: Cook, KP and Bell. I don't know why anyone would want to meddle with that.

And as far as I know, you get only 50 overs to bat in ODI cricket. A guy who gets frustrated too easily after 2-3 bad overs and chucks it away. Thats not good enough.

Shelsey93 wrote:

msp83 wrote:It of course is too early to build Root up too much, but he has shown a good attitude and temprament so far in his career. Besides, Bell certainly hasn't been too much of a hundred scorer in his ODI career, even after his comeback, has just the 1 hundred against the West Indies. The question to be asked is what is good for the tem? Should Bell or KP open? I'd say the latter. If not opening, where else should Bell bat? Can England have a top 6 that include both Bell and Trott? If they go with a top 5 of Cook, Pietersen, Bell, Trott and Morgan, and select Bairstow or Buttler as the wicketkeeper, who would provide the 10 overst of the 5th bowler?

We shouldn't need the 5th bowler. I would still drop Patel. I'm not too worried about Bresnan/ Broad/ Woakes/ Swann batting 7.

Broad has an ODI batting average of 12.57. His test batting is declining rapidly too. Ditto Swann. Not sure Woakes is a better limited overs bowler than Patel (List A records). Bresnan should not be considered in any format atm.

Shelsey93 wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:So on one hand you say ODI 100s are hard to get but at the same time say, Root should not be picked because he won't score hundreds.

I think Bell is more likely to score ODI 100s (or at least 75+s) on a regular basis than Root is at this stage. Root now my first reserve for when one of the top 4 are resting.

100s are important - much of England's success in the last year has come off the back of us realising that we need players who score them at the top: Cook, KP and Bell. I don't know why anyone would want to meddle with that.

Bell has shown very little in his ODI career to suggest that he is capable of scoring ODI hundreds. Don't put him in the same sentence as Cook or KP, please.

Not saying I'd pick Patel btw. Rikki Clarke and Ben Stokes are both in the Lions OD squad, which suggests to me that they're looking at one of those 2 to possibly fill that slot. Rikki's late inclusion certainly would suggest so.

Woakes could be a possible option at 7 in English conditions, Stokes, if he could take his all-1rond game to the next level could be a potential. Bresnan at the moment is not good enough with bat or ball to make to the squad. Swann's a quality slogger, perhaps a number 8 at the moment. Broad's batting has declined significantly for some time now. In India, only Trott was missing frist choice batting lineup, and England failed big time to bat out their overs in 2 of the matches.