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New Zealand v England, Dunedin, 1st Test Thread

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LivinginItaly
Taylorman
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Mike Selig
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Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
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Post by Duty281 Tue 05 Mar 2013, 5:28 pm

First topic message reminder :

The three-test series starts at 21:30 GMT tonight. New Zealand are coming into this series very much as the outsiders, after being trounced in South Africa, although they did manage a surprise 1-1 series draw in Sri Lanka not too long ago. England, fresh off a historic series win in India, are very much the favourites and this is the start of a gruelling 15 Tests in the next 10 months against Australasian opposition, in a double Ashes year.

Expected Teams (Cricinfo):

New Zealand 1 Peter Fulton, 2 Hamish Rutherford, 3 Kane Williamson, 4 Ross Taylor, 5 Dean Brownlie, 6 Brendon McCullum (capt), 7 BJ Watling (wk), 8 Tim Southee, 9 Bruce Martin/Ian Butler, 10 Neil Wagner, 11 Trent Boult

England (probable) 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Nick Compton, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Joe Root, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 James Anderson, 11 Steven Finn

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Post by alfie Thu 07 Mar 2013, 10:22 am

I see you have bounced back quickly , trebs ... putting up a strong start for tomorrow already Smile

Going to need your best efforts throughout , but with your talents working for us I still have faith the day can be saved OK

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Post by VTR Thu 07 Mar 2013, 10:29 am

Bathman_in_London wrote:Ah the old feeling of praying for rain so we can claim a draw. It's been a while, but its like meeting up with an old friend...

Haha, for some reason I miss those days. We'd usually be about 300 runs off making the other team bat again. Out would walk Dominic Cork to join Nick Knight who was on 5*. Can we bat the 6 hours to get a draw, or please would it just pi$$ it down!

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 07 Mar 2013, 10:41 am

alfie wrote:I see you have bounced back quickly , trebs ... putting up a strong start for tomorrow already Smile

Going to need your best efforts throughout , but with your talents working for us I still have faith the day can be saved OK
no this one is done but it's about time I got in the nets and did some work.

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Post by Bathman_in_London Thu 07 Mar 2013, 10:43 am

VTR wrote:
Bathman_in_London wrote:Ah the old feeling of praying for rain so we can claim a draw. It's been a while, but its like meeting up with an old friend...

Haha, for some reason I miss those days. We'd usually be about 300 runs off making the other team bat again. Out would walk Dominic Cork to join Nick Knight who was on 5*. Can we bat the 6 hours to get a draw, or please would it just pi$$ it down!

With a young Andy Caddick ready to come in after...!

We were so bad it was funny, at least you knew where you stood. This winning followed by a complete disaster is harder to deal with!

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:00 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:
alfie wrote:I see you have bounced back quickly , trebs ... putting up a strong start for tomorrow already Smile

Going to need your best efforts throughout , but with your talents working for us I still have faith the day can be saved OK
no this one is done but it's about time I got in the nets and did some work.


thumbsup

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:07 am

Ouch: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8396155/Cricket-fan-cops-6-to-the-head

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:13 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Ouch: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8396155/Cricket-fan-cops-6-to-the-head



Oblivious to the cricket ball. I take it he was an England player then

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:20 am

mystiroakey wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Ouch: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8396155/Cricket-fan-cops-6-to-the-head



Oblivious to the cricket ball. I take it he was an England player then
Laugh

Probably just a scarfie ("scarfie" is the slang term for an Otago University student, largely because Dunedin student flats are so cold they wear scarves all the time. Scarfies make up about 20% of Dunedin's total population). Odds are at least one of his mates was a medical student too, so he'd be in good hands!
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:37 am

He should swap that scarf in for a hat!

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Post by msp83 Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:58 am

Terrible day for England and a rather rare terrific one for New Zealand.
The NZ bowling should never be underestimated. Their seamers are a decent bunch, and has the conditions to help them. The English batters were too generous to the debutant spinner Martin though.
The more worrying thing is that the bowling unit too, had a pretty bad day in office. Credit to the New Zealand openers, to see a higher opening partnership, you have to go all the way back to 2004.
The NZ middle order is much better than the top order. With Willimason, Taylor and an in-form Brendon McCullum could really create hell for England in this match.
But England have weathered some real tricky situations in the past, and this game is not really lost at this point. Said that, they have to get their act together tomorrow itself.

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Post by FerN Thu 07 Mar 2013, 12:11 pm

I really didn't see this one coming.

Just checked cricinfo now, will have to watch the highlights of the game when I get home.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 07 Mar 2013, 12:38 pm

Good summary from msp.

I saw some of the live play up until Broad's dismissal a bit after lunch. Thought the NZ seamers bowled well, putting it there or thereabouts. Marin also did a fine job, although as msp suggests, he didn't need the help we gave him.

I formed the impression that we were a bit muddled by the entire loss of the first day. Was our plan to ignore that or make up ground? Our attempted answer seemed to be to attempt somewhere in the middle which became disastrous as wickets regularly fell without a proper partnership ever getting going.

Well as New Zealand performed, you have to acknowledge we batted very badly. I didn't detect any demons in the wicket and the fast outfield permitted boundaries if the batsmen displayed patience and judgment.

A few words on Joe Root. He has been over hyped but is certainly a very fine player with considerable potential. His dismissal though showed he has a long way still to go. Decent bowling from Boult but it was hardly an Andy Roberts throat ball that did for him. I just hope those who were so quick to praise Root won't immediately be calling for his head. He remains as good a Test prospect today as he was yesterday.

As an aside, I always feel our batting line up looks weak when we have Finn, Anderson and Panesar (effectively three number 11s) batting at 9, 10, Jack. I appreciate there was probably no way of avoiding that with Swann being injured and, in any case, it's the job of those higher up the order to get the runs. However, it still makes me feel that the start of a very weak tail (even though they did better than most as it turned out!) is too close for comfort.

Anyway, not all over yet. Two early wickets in the next session and others might quickly follow. However, there is no getting away from New Zealand currently being well on top. They deserve massive credit for that - particularly their opening batsmen (whom I didn't see) building on the work of their bowlers.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 07 Mar 2013, 12:50 pm

Looks like England were underdone and overconfident going into this test match. Probably more the former than the latter. NZ always seem to do well in these makeshift grounds like Queenstown or Hagley Oval. Just seems like a family outing rather than an international match.

Didn't think we were capable of putting on a century opening partnership but credit where credit's due. Good on the NZ openers for defying the odds. Made a mockery of the England innings and that's always good for scoring psychological points. Always makes it a longer day in the field. Now England will certainly come back fired up so NZ has to create pressure and look for a big innings lead and put doubt into England's batsman. If England can come back and get all the batsman out cheaply then yesterday's play will count for nothing. Wouldn't be surprised if they did but I have a feeling the NZ tails are up and they will surely know this is their chance to strike. They're used to seeing their own blood but that just makes it easier to sniff out their opponents' blood. Prove me wrong you rag tag fugitive team of no-hopers. Kiwi

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 07 Mar 2013, 12:55 pm

NZ will be looking at staying put for another day and a half and try for 500- this is the perfect scenario- but odds against. But i am sure that is there game plan for the start of play.

then try and get england out in a day and a half- for under 320

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 07 Mar 2013, 1:21 pm

That's the ideal scenario and why not aim for that. I think much will depend on these openers. If they can stay in they can sew the seeds of doubt. Often after long partnerships wickets can tumble much like march showers. Nz is known for its batting collapses but if the overs can pass by without wickets and runs accumulate then pressure goes back to the bowling side.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 07 Mar 2013, 1:59 pm

This is apparently the 4th time in a row that England's first first innings score of an away Test series has been below 200.

Reaching into my unlimited supplies of optimism, England are going to have to bowl New Zealand out for under 320, then make 300+ by stumps on Day 4. With New Zealand having to chase 150-190 on the final day, watch England pile the pressure on to claim victory from the jaws of defeat.

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Post by kingraf Thu 07 Mar 2013, 2:11 pm

I honestly wonder why English fans thought they were gonna roll NZ over, just because SA did.
1) That was not their best team
2) SA have a superior bowling line-up
3) NZ pitches in autumn is nothing like Newlands in summer
4) NZ had us in a manner of trouble during the NZ series last year, and we got saved by the weather.
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Post by kingraf Thu 07 Mar 2013, 2:16 pm

Duty281. Mate I do that all the time. Of course its easier when you have a Dale Steyn. This is me after a particularly challenging day...
"Okay, England are 270/3, but we still have a newish ball, if we can jus take 2 quick wickets, we can roll them for 350"
Of course it didnt work day 1 of Perth... Dont think optimism is gonna work here.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 07 Mar 2013, 2:21 pm

kingraf wrote:Duty281. Mate I do that all the time. Of course its easier when you have a Dale Steyn. This is me after a particularly challenging day...
"Okay, England are 270/3, but we still have a newish ball, if we can jus take 2 quick wickets, we can roll them for 350"
Of course it didnt work day 1 of Perth... Dont think optimism is gonna work here.

No worries lad, we don't need him, we've got Anderson. thumbsup

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 07 Mar 2013, 2:27 pm

England were terrible to be honest.

Compton played on to a nothing ball, looked nervous and trying to play well out in front of him.
Cook slapped a wide long-hop to point.
KP got a good inswinger early on, got stuck on the crease a bit. He's had a few issues lining up left-arm seamers in the past and again here.
Bell hit a half-volley straight to short extra.
Prior hit a wide long-hop straight to point.
Trott top-edged a sweep.
Broad slapped a long-hop straight to deep square-leg.

Out of all those wickets, only KP (decent ball) and Trott (had to start moving on and beaten by a nice bit of flight) were "got out" - the rest got themselves out entirely.

Quite a few (Cook, Prior, Bell, maybe even Broad) were undone by the tennis ball bounce - failing to adapt to very different conditions from the India tour, and showing how important decent preparation is.

England's bowling was fairly poor, but understandably they strived a bit hard for wickets rather than settling into line and length. KP's drop was awful, Broad's was a tough one.

New Zealand bowled reasonably, but really most of the wickets were gifts.

Rutherford looks a decent prospect though, good grit and determination. Bruce Martin, well he bowled with good flight and variation, but to be honest I think George Dockrell does everything he does better. England made him into a far better bowler than he is.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 07 Mar 2013, 2:30 pm

Prospects for the rest of the game.

England will look to take a couple of early wickets tomorrow and no fewer than 4 in the morning session. They will want NZ out for 300 or thereabouts. If they do that, they have every chance of saving the test, because the pitch will be good and the batsmen can't play that badly again can they? With the match reduced to 4 days it is difficult to see an England win, unless New Zealand capitulate in a run chase.

New Zealand will want to consolidate. They should aim to bat once, so will be wanting to bat another 4 sessions which would take them past 500.

Of course, what plays out is likely to lie somewhere in between - New Zealand could get between 350 and 400 (so bowled out towards the middle of the evening session) and England will then have to match New Zealand's 2nd innings score and more.

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Post by kingraf Thu 07 Mar 2013, 2:42 pm

in all seriousness, though. England can still win this. They shouldnt, but teams that forgot how to win are capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (or draw, in cricket).

Anderson, for all my mocking of him is good enough to exploit any demons in either the pitch, or the Kiwi batsman psyche. But, ja England are up against it, and I have no idea as to how they got in this position.

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Post by gboycottnut Thu 07 Mar 2013, 6:12 pm

kingraf wrote:in all seriousness, though. England can still win this. They shouldnt, but teams that forgot how to win are capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (or draw, in cricket).

Anderson, for all my mocking of him is good enough to exploit any demons in either the pitch, or the Kiwi batsman psyche. But, ja England are up against it, and I have no idea as to how they got in this position.


Simple really, we just aren't as good as many people like to think we are. Our bowling only looks threatening when there is assistance from the pitch or the overhead conditions, whilst our batting only seems to fire properly when our players wake up after a lay-off or when the first test has finished.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:14 pm

Well this is just embarassing now
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:17 pm

Going well isn't it? OK


Well for New Zealand anyway. Very Happy

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:18 pm

OOPs

And as I speak, the wheels come off for the Kiwi's.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:22 pm

If Rutherford bats for a couple more sessions NZ are going to score a serious quantity of runs.... Shocked

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Post by Taylorman Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:30 pm

Ross Taylor in. First test for a while. Good to see the headlines normally reserved for the Kiwis going elsewhere.

Another test thats ours to lose- the usual story...but we dont often get every single little thing going our way. 150+ on debut for Rutherford and a debut 4 wicket bag from a 32 year old bowler...another from a replacement...surreal...

Cmon the Kiwi's! thumbsup

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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu 07 Mar 2013, 11:50 pm


Smithy says that it the most boundaries by a New Zealand opening batsman on debut. thats not bad when you consider how many opening batsmen we go through.

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Post by Taylorman Fri 08 Mar 2013, 12:02 am

Yeah I'm still waiting for the candid camera guy to jump out- or is it Demi's ex these days?

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 12:03 am

Excellent work from Rutherford.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 12:22 am

A wicket!

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 12:24 am

Lead of 100.

Rutherford's 171 is NZ's 7th all time highest score on debut.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 12:25 am

he is on debut! Shocked

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 08 Mar 2013, 12:56 am

302 - 3 as I hit the hay. New Zealand massively on top. Even if we do get them all out today, they won't be upset to then have a few overs at us.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 12:57 am

Well our bolwers are looking abit more dangerous. but this pitch is offering nothing for them..

If england are going to bat out to save a draw- this could be a good pitch to try!

I have no idea what happened firts day for us Sad

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 1:04 am

Jimmy Jimmy.

4 down

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 1:25 am

the wickets are tumbling!

6 up

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 1:56 am

The Kiwis are either going for it... or leaving them and getting cleaned up.

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 1:57 am

Lead over 200 runs now. 370/7

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 2:12 am

385/7 at Tea

5/130 off 26 overs in that session. The lead is now 218 runs.

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Post by Taylorman Fri 08 Mar 2013, 2:12 am

Yeah theyre scoring at over 1 a ball now so theyre obviously piling the runs on before having a crack at the remnaining two days and a few hours.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 2:19 am

yep good agression from NZ- best thing to do. try and pile on another keep 60 at best , then in a no lose scenario- with time to get US out

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New Zealand v England, Dunedin, 1st Test Thread - Page 3 Empty Re: New Zealand v England, Dunedin, 1st Test Thread

Post by mystiroakey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 2:19 am

Oh nooo. rain on its way

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Post by msp83 Fri 08 Mar 2013, 6:01 am

Another excellent day for New Zealand. They kept the runrate up, and despite losing part of the day to the damn rain, they are on top. If play starts on time tomorrow, since Brendon McCullum is still out there, they could have a go for 10 overs or so, and then get England back on. Will be a huge challenge for Cook and co to save this one.

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Post by Biltong Fri 08 Mar 2013, 6:32 am

New Zealand needs at least 120 overs to bowl at England, with 180 overs left in the remaining two days, and hopefully not too much rain, they can pull this off, I agree with MSP, NZ must bat no more than 10-15 overs tomorrow, go great guns and collect them as fast as possible, a three hundred lead will give England enough to fight to stay in it, even if england goes past the 300 the lead shouldn't be too much.

The rain factor might still spoil this.
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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 08 Mar 2013, 6:39 am

Dunedin is not the best place to pray for no rain! But reaching 400 with a rain delay is a great achievement and two days NZ have dominated England so I tip my hat to the Black Caps and congratulate them. Go you good things. Now to dominate days three and four and have something to shout about in test cricket. If the England rugby team can beat us after ten years, the NZ cricket team can beat England after 30 or so. I do remember in the Hadlee era a victory against England. Plenty of cricket to come yet but nothing to fault NZ in their endeavour so far.

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Post by LivinginItaly Fri 08 Mar 2013, 7:07 am

I can see England escaping from this one if they bat with much greater application and are fortunate enough to attract some more rain delays. I think we will need to bat well for four or five sessions, which is certainly within the realms of possibility if cook and/or trott can get themselves in, as we will need them to be the reliable anchors of the innings.

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Post by VTR Fri 08 Mar 2013, 8:49 am

Is the Test on during the night so children can't see it?

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 08 Mar 2013, 9:07 am

The pitch does look to easy for the england line up to be skittled again.


I think the draw is on and the team should be thanking god for the rain..


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