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Congratulations England!!!

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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:40 pm

I want to start a thread that isn't based around bickering, bias or any wummery at all, or at least try!

What I take from today as a neutral...

England forwards did one hell of a job first half, provided exactly wht was needed to perform.

Italy have to be commended for the fight they showed, and hadn't seen since the French game!

Chris Robshaw will definately tour with the lions and has his name all but on a test jersey for me (he was my MOTM)

Parisse is one hell of a player!

Ashton has all but played himself out of an England spot, let alone lions.

That 30 minute spell was exactly what England needed, they looked at half time like the job was done, and expected it to happen second half rather than fight for every inch, Italy looked dangerous without ever really threatening to take the game.


What I got out of today as a Welshman...

The English tight 5 and Robshaw are extremely powerfull, playing well around the park, working as a unit and has the best set peice we will face!!

I hope Wood starts at 8, he's nowhere near as effective there and IMHO is top class at 6!

Care showed he's a speed demon but nowhere near as classy as Youngs, and Flood wasn't great either.

The 2 centres are ferocious defencively, but don't offer a massive amount going forward except the hard yards, very siilar to what the welsh centres are trying to do but Englands are more effective.

Englands back 3 are a bit of a shambles, the harder Ashton tries the worse he's getting, the quality is there, but the platform isn't and the more we talk about his defencive weakness the more teams attack him and the more chances he gets to struggle.

Brown is a good player being wasted at wing, neither he or Ashton are offering any sort of strike plays or line threat the Welsh wings are.

Goode struggled today, which surprised me as I'm a fan, maybe it was a case of he and Flood trying too hard with too much poor ball with a defence who wasn't tied in enough?

All in all England will take just what they want out of today... The win and GS finale next week. This game reminded me of Wales win in France, both teams knew that a 1 point win, in any sort of fashion, under any circumstances was what was important, and the job was done.

Congrats England and I look forward to next week (especially to the battle between Cole and James), for me the bulk of the lions squad will come from these 2 teams (and by bulk I mean probably 60% or so) and it should prove an absolute stormer of a game, I wish all involved (players, coaches, fans alike) good luck and hope that the final game of the 6N really shows what the tournament can provide!

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Post by Morgannwg Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:52 pm

Mods can you merge this with my thread? It's just I don't want to see 'congratualions England' on the home page more times than I have to, ie; more than once.
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Post by Biltong Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:55 pm

No can do Morg, this thread has different context.
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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:58 pm

Biltong wrote:No can do Morg, this thread has context.

OK

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:00 pm

Thanks.

I thought you would be shreading us tbh!


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Post by glamorganalun Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:01 pm

Well done England it's a win not sure if deserved but a win. It does add to next week as Wales have a chance to win it but England have the advantage. I am sure England must have a wing better than Ashton but SL keeps picking him his defence .is going to cost England.

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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:02 pm

Why would I be shredding a team who did the job and set up a GS decider?

It wasn't perfect, it wasn't pretty, but it was a tense and exciting finish and will be one of the few memorable games so far.

Todays game and Italys win over France have been the 2 most enjoyable games IMHO.

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Post by Biltong Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:03 pm

Can anyone tell me what the conditions were like?
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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:04 pm

If I had a criticism of Englands performance it would be that similarly to France and Scotland if any decent ball went wide they'd give easy yards and Brown and Ashton look really weak on the wings.

But theyre in it to win it, and thats all you can ask!

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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:05 pm

Conditions looked good, cold but dry.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:05 pm

Blues Sorry mate.. Ta for the thanks. TBH we deserve a bit of stick after today though.. And I was ready for it!!

I looks like Morgs is the one taking that role on.

BTW doesnt this mean wales actually have a shot at this title!!

14 pts only!!


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Post by A World Cup and 3 Finals Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:05 pm

It's going to be tense, that's the only certainty. In a way England have it all to lose and Wales's confidence must be on the up whereas England's on a slight decline. For me the coaches over the next week will play a pivotal role and will probably determine the outcome and the abrasive atmosphere that will surely be at near boiling point will either drive England on or put them on the back foot. All too close to call.

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Post by englandglory4ever Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:06 pm

Congrats to England for scraping an ugly win. The players will feel pretty down after letting the second half slip so easily. BUT, a very big congratulations to Italy because in the second half they really took their game to England and were very close to a shock win. I thought Italy looked like a top side on a fast track which is HQ.

England should go and practice next week in a bog in some god foresaken marsh somewhere in preparation for playing at the MS next week. Or at the very least on the same ground where the Welsh get their turf from.

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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:08 pm

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:It's going to be tense, that's the only certainty. In a way England have it all to lose and Wales's confidence must be on the up whereas England's on a slight decline. For me the coaches over the next week will play a pivotal role and will probably determine the outcome and the abrasive atmosphere that will surely be at near boiling point will either drive England on or put them on the back foot. All too close to call.

Never thought I'd say this AWCA3F...

+1

Mister

8 point win will give Wales the title, and a 7 point win will almost certainly give Wales the title (I think)

How this will effect both teams I'm not sure, will wales chase it? Will England defend it? Or will both teams see it as a winner take all until the final 5/10 minutes?

Either way it will be exciting as shoite!!!!!

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:12 pm

Yeah i think a 7 pt would favour wales- because you would have the head to head, and if its points scored you have 1 more allready.

In a way I am kind of glad. It means that there is something to play for rather than just to stop england slamming. This seems more exiting and honest tbh..




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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:14 pm

Ye I was happey we are chasing 7 points rather than 17!!!!

Shame we couldn't have turned up 40 minutes earlier to the tourny, it mightve been a GS decider proper!!!

If you think morgs going nuts now, imagine if Wales were on for a GS too steam

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Post by SecretFly Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:14 pm

Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me what the conditions were like?

???

Italy are a good dry ground team. They ain't what they used to be so we shouldn't necessarily look for explanations for their performance in the weather. They simply played better than England..and just lacked a clinical edge and a kicker.

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Post by kingjohn7 Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:15 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Blues Sorry mate.. Ta for the thanks. TBH we deserve a bit of stick after today though.. And I was ready for it!!

I looks like Morgs is the one taking that role on.

BTW doesnt this mean wales actually have a shot at this title!!

14 pts only!!


Just got in from work, missed the action but cant believe the close score!! Chuffed, championship is on now! Only 7 right? Cos you guys will lose a point for every one that we get. Or am I being a muppet?
Congrats England, sounds like it was a good game, gonna have to get on iplayer.

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Post by kingjohn7 Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:16 pm

Ok already been covered whilst I typed like a snail

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Post by Biltong Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:17 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me what the conditions were like?

???

Italy are a good dry ground team. They ain't what they used to be so we shouldn't necessarily look for explanations for their performance in the weather. They simply played better than England..and just lacked a clinical edge and a kicker.
the reason I was asking is because earlier today I read comments regarding poor weather after the first weekend of the Six nations as a justification for the little number of tries being scored during the 6 nations.
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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:18 pm

Kingjohn

It was an odd game, definately worth a watch, there are a few comedy moments in the first half when England fluff a few huge overlaps and try scoring opportunities, the an Italy resurgance of real quality followed by some heart we hadn't seen from England so far, or hadn't needed to see I shouldve said!

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Post by mbernz Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:18 pm

Poor performance from England, inaccuracy in the first half and then more than a bit ineptness in the second. Don't want to take away too much from what was a good performance from Italy though.

For England to have a decent chance of winning next week they need Farrell and Morgan (with Wood in his proper position) back fit and a reversion to Youngs starting. Plenty of problems in the back 3 as is, but I think we can get by if the other areas are addressed, though after the 6N Brown needs to start at 15 with new proper wingers focused on in the summer tour and Ashton left at home to rest and prepare himself for next season.

Should be a good tough game next week which Wales are more than capable of winning, particularly if England play like that again, though I can't see them playing that badly and think it's set them up for a hard week's training and the frame of mind that will see a cracking match that could be anyone's game.

Good luck one and all!

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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:20 pm

Biltong wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me what the conditions were like?

???

Italy are a good dry ground team. They ain't what they used to be so we shouldn't necessarily look for explanations for their performance in the weather. They simply played better than England..and just lacked a clinical edge and a kicker.
the reason I was asking is because earlier today I read comments regarding poor weather after the first weekend of the Six nations as a justification for the little number of tries being scored during the 6 nations.

Thats a fair assumption IMHO, it was dry, but was cold and the ground was pretty soft. No excuses for no tries today though, England shouldve walked a few in and arguably Italy shouldve gone over too!!!

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:21 pm

Biltong wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me what the conditions were like?

???

Italy are a good dry ground team. They ain't what they used to be so we shouldn't necessarily look for explanations for their performance in the weather. They simply played better than England..and just lacked a clinical edge and a kicker.
the reason I was asking is because earlier today I read comments regarding poor weather after the first weekend of the Six nations as a justification for the little number of tries being scored during the 6 nations.

Well weather is a factor in terms of how rugby is played- we all now that, today wasnt to bad. but it was freezing cold

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Post by SecretFly Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:22 pm

Biltong wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me what the conditions were like?

???

Italy are a good dry ground team. They ain't what they used to be so we shouldn't necessarily look for explanations for their performance in the weather. They simply played better than England..and just lacked a clinical edge and a kicker.
the reason I was asking is because earlier today I read comments regarding poor weather after the first weekend of the Six nations as a justification for the little number of tries being scored during the 6 nations.

well some teams were having bad weather and some of them had no excuses. Besides..the bad weather affects all sides as a ball slips and slides (out of the hands) of bad players as much as good players.

The weather has affected certain games to an extent. England Italy looked like good conditions for errorless rugby.

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Post by Biltong Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:22 pm

I see the last three 6 nation matches Wales won against England was by 2, 8 , and 9 points, there was also a 7 point loss in 2011.

Either way, it is going to be tight.
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Post by thebluesmancometh Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:24 pm

Maybe,

As a welshman I can see a pretty big Welsh victory if they play to their strengths.

As a rugby fan I can see a dominant England breakdown providing platform for plenty of shots at goal.

As a realist though your probably right.

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Post by englandglory4ever Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:26 pm

Handling errors in the Eng v Italy game were far fewer than the other two games but England fluffed 2 or 3 try scoring opportunities in the first half and had to defend their socks off in the second half. But hey, they won.

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Post by IanBru Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:29 pm

As a neutral, that was one of the most enjoyable games I've watched in a long time, and I'm not exactly sure why. Watched it with all my family, gathered for mothers' day, cup of tea and some cake. Not to be underestimated in the Bru household!

England did exactly what was needed, so hats off to them. We say this every time Italy perform well, but I think 2013 will be seen as the year Italy stepped beyond one-off results and began to really compete in all their matches.

Next week sure looks like a humdinger of a match and I can't wait! Events like a Wales-England title decider is the reason why, in my opinion, the Six Nations is the best tournament in rugby, and possibly in other sports as well.
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Post by BristolDave Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:33 pm

Conditions were fine but cold. (Bloody cold in the stadium) I thought England did Italy a disservice by trying to run everything without commiting the forwards first of all. Italy then gained sme confidence and got their tails up. Some of the passing in the first half was terrible as well and they buggered 3 or 4 chances then

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Post by A World Cup and 3 Finals Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:34 pm

IanBru wrote:As a neutral, that was one of the most enjoyable games I've watched in a long time, and I'm not exactly sure why. Watched it with all my family, gathered for mothers' day, cup of tea and some cake. Not to be underestimated in the Bru household!

England did exactly what was needed, so hats off to them. We say this every time Italy perform well, but I think 2013 will be seen as the year Italy stepped beyond one-off results and began to really compete in all their matches.

Next week sure looks like a humdinger of a match and I can't wait! Events like a Wales-England title decider is the reason why, in my opinion, the Six Nations is the best tournament in rugby, and possibly in other sports as well.

Yeah, but much more enjoyable if you're a neutral. I'm looking forward to it like a trip to the dentist with a tooth ache.

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Post by SecretFly Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:40 pm

If Wales lose and Scotland look like beating France...THEN IanBru will be fearing the dentist's chair (and looking at the score board) in the final half hour or so of the final game.. Wink Nicer being 2nd than 3rd

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Post by Taylorman Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:43 pm

It was a good game actually, both sides running it at will. I was as annoyed at England not being able to finish tries as much as English fans were frustrated.

For me there just seems to be too many players on the field congesting it all. The width isnt used effectively and theres always masses of players waiting for the ball carrier.

Putting it all down to good defences is only half correct. How can all 6 sides in any tournament be just as effective as eachother? Focus on the use of space and generating fast ball is really lacking, resulting in this endless side to side stuff.

We get it here as well but eventually theres a method to the madness and sharper attacks eventaully find a way through.

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Post by englandglory4ever Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:49 pm

Just a thought but did England's game plan and the way they played suggest they expected and were looking for a big win? If so, the coaches need to look at themselves because they under estimated Italy.

Can Italy replicate their second half performance next week? If they can they are going firmly in the right direction.

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Post by Morgannwg Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:57 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Just a thought but did England's game plan and the way they played suggest they expected and were looking for a big win? If so, the coaches need to look at themselves because they under estimated Italy.

Can Italy replicate their second half performance next week? If they can they are going firmly in the right direction.

England just aren't that good.

Italy will beat Ireland next week IMO.
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Post by IanBru Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:If Wales lose and Scotland look like beating France...THEN IanBru will be fearing the dentist's chair (and looking at the score board) in the final half hour or so of the final game.. Wink Nicer being 2nd than 3rd

Ha ha, Fly, I like your thinking!

To be honest, I wouldn't say I don't enjoy watching Scotland play, but it's always such a nerve-racking experience whether we're winning or losing. I remember being ill for a week after Scotland lost to Wales in 2010 - sure proof that your mood can affect your immune system!
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Post by mystiroakey Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:14 pm

Bru . I am glad someone enjoyed that game. Because I certainly didnt.

I thought the rugby was pretty good. Italy actually looked like france did against us first half, but carried it on for 40 mins.

I am not going to blow englands trumpet here. But I do think Italy were playing at a good level as they did in there opener. They just cant do it game after game..

But I also thought Englands changed team looked unbalanced.

And anyone not seeing OH's (and ben youngs) worthy places - take a look at that game again..

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Post by SecretFly Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:15 pm

Italy could well produce this week's second half performance next week - over two halves too. But, if they do and Ireland still beat them, will it be seen as an Ireland finding their true feet in a final game...or Italy not being as good as they were the week before?

Ireland playing to their true strengths (which are still there somewhere buried in the coaching meltdown and player humptydumpty syndrome) would still beat a resurgent Italy and easily enough too .... meaning two halves of our Welsh game first half! Wink

I'm not overly confident Ireland with present coaches will ever find their 80 minute feet though, so yes, a good 80 minutes from Italy could be a very good day indeed for them. Absolutely, no Irish person will disagree with that one.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:19 pm

"Italy could well produce this week's second half performance next week - over two halves too. But, if they do and Ireland still beat them, will it be seen as an Ireland finding their true feet in a final game...or Italy not being as good as they were the week before?"



A question that we allways have to be a bit open minded about tbh!

Rugby is a funny game like that.

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Post by Big Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:00 pm

Morgannwg wrote:
England just aren't that good.

Italy will beat Ireland next week IMO.

Sadly I'm inclined to agree on both fronts.

After the best opening weekend I can remember, this has turned into possibly the poorest 6 nations there has ever been (in terms of standard of play, some of the games have been exciting to watch).

I don't actually think England were any worse than the last two matches, they just get a fair amount of credit for wins over France and Ireland by default.

The frustration is that I can see the replacements getting the blame and being dropped, but Vunipola and Flood were both pretty decent - and though Haskell had a poor game by his own standards, any proper back row is better than Lawes at 6. Flood in particular seemed to make more half breaks in the first half hour than the rest of the team had made in the last two games. If there had been anyone used to/aware of his lines and getting in a position to support, I expect England would have had a couple of tries in the first 20 minutes and Italy would have been out of it by half time. And if I recall rightly the first player to actually notice and do the support was Vunipola.

Still, what will be will be... England are capable of much better, and hopefully they will pull fingers out of rears and put in a much better shift next week.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:10 pm

Englands baalnce wasnt right . Which is the biggest shame for me. Because we have looked to have different plans that can be effective . Today it didn't.

I think Flood did ok. But playing ok means nothing if others arnt connected to you(through fault of yours or theres)

Of course we could argue that it just needs time.

Well the next game isnt the time to try that out.

Flood has to be benched

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Post by Big Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:36 pm

mystiroakey wrote:I think Flood did ok. But playing ok means nothing if others arnt connected to you(through fault of yours or theres)

My point was largely that we were no worse than before, and were possibly a bit better than the last two games. Nobody notices that overlaps get missed when the team isn't creating any - if you get my gist. Specifically looking at Flood, if there was no-one there to take advantage of Flood's half breaks, he still made decent yards and put the team on the front foot. His contribution shouldn't be discarded because people expected Italy to be a push over - I doubt that Farrell would have made the yards Flood did, and he certainly couldn't have converted more of the kicks at goal. As a result any assumption we'd have done better with Farrell is dubious in my view, and I'm inclined to think the opposite. It's all subjective, but that's my take.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:44 pm

Well OF is no.1 at the moment and has done nothing wrong. His replacement hasnt done enough to take his place.

Sometimes its just about familiarity.OF may help others work better around him.

OF seems the sort of player that can produce one peace of magic that can get us a try as well as allow us a solid base..

That pass he made v scotland(was it) was the pass of the tourny. It reminded me of some of JW's plays..

Sometimes its all about the quarter back role..If you get my drift


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