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New Zealand vs England - Third Test

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Post by Stella Wed 20 Mar 2013, 9:19 am

Are we going to get a result? With decent weather, I think we will, and dare I say it to England.

The only change I can see is Bracewell coming in for the Kiwi's, although there was talk of England playing five bowlers, which I would be surprised at.

Broad is the only England bowler who has looked anything near his best, but with Jimmy who needs five wickets for 300, and Finn, who will hopefully pitch the ball up, things should improve.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 20 Mar 2013, 9:47 am

I can see the Kiwi's just putting out a flat track and playing for the draw tbh
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 20 Mar 2013, 9:49 am

Sky Sports News ‏@SkySportsNews 1m
Kevin Pietersen has been ruled out of the final Test v New Zealand with a knee injury #ssn

Maybe the 5 bowlers could be true Stella?
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Post by Stella Wed 20 Mar 2013, 9:52 am

Woakes for Pietersen?

I would.
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Post by msp83 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 10:49 am

KP is to be out of action for up to 8 weeks. What a terrible shame. But hopefully he'll be fit and firing for the summer.
Think Bairstow will come in place of Pietersen. and Bracewell should come in for NZ, but for whom? Think it has to be Wagner, he has taken wickets, but hasn't been able to maintain control for long spells.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 20 Mar 2013, 11:11 am

Eden Park's going to have a drop in pitch, and given that the Blues played a rugby match there at the weekend it won't have had long to bed in. Hence I'd expect the track to be a bit slow (not that Eden Park's ever had much pace).

I'd expect Bracewell to come in for Wagner, word is NZ want to refresh the attack somewhat given the workload over the last 2 England innings.

More interesting will be what NZ do regarding spinners for the return tour, as Martin's done a good job while Vettori should be fit.
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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 11:29 am

KP's injury isn't too much of a crisis. Means he doesn't play in the IPL (which he shouldn't be, given this year's schedule). But he'll need to play a few matches for Surrey - he usually likes games behind him.

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Post by gboycottnut Wed 20 Mar 2013, 12:06 pm

Question now is with KP ruled out injured who is going to replace him? I personally think that now is the ideal time to play Chris Woakes as England need a 5 man bowling attack on these flat and slow batting surfaces.

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Post by sirfredperry Wed 20 Mar 2013, 12:33 pm

This may be the chance to play - belatedly - a five-man bowling attack, which I would do even if Pietersen was fit.
There's no reason why Prior cannot bat at six - he's averaging well over 40 in Test cricket, after all - and then we can play five bowlers.
In these days of no rest days and back-to-back Tests, four-man bowling attacks are NOT the answer (unless you are the West Indies in the 1980s allowed to bowl just 72 overs a day).

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Post by alfie Wed 20 Mar 2013, 12:50 pm

Five bowlers ? Maybe...though if the pitch is anything like the last two I am not sure Woakes would do much damage.
As Pete says it is a drop in pitch and perhaps we should not assume too much in advance. Probably more important will be five days good weather...I fancy a result is quite likely if that can be arranged.

I actually expect Bairstow for KP and don't mind that at all. Would like to see him get a chance to show his wares.

If they need to "freshen up" the bowling I'd prefer Onions to Woakes , though I doubt they would lengthen the tail by bringing him in for a batsman. And I would only pick him if his net work has convinced them he is back in better form than in the warm up ! Suppose if the pitch suits they might look at Tredwell ?

Hope Jimmy gets his 300 ...and hope Finn gets his radar back !

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 20 Mar 2013, 12:55 pm

Can't see them batting Woakes or Broad at 7, so it will be Bairstow for KP.

With Compton almost nailed to open in the Ashes with Cook, it would give them a chance to play Root & Bairstow together and have a serious look at who will bat 6.


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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 2:06 pm

Bairstow will almost certainly play... ramp up the pressure on Root (who isn't secure yet - 1 good Test innings) and also allow England to assess where Bairstow is.

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Post by Stella Wed 20 Mar 2013, 2:08 pm

I see why Bairstow may play but shouldn't we be looking at winning this match, rather than see who will play at six in the future?
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Post by mystiroakey Wed 20 Mar 2013, 2:09 pm

root needs to dig in next innings. Bad series for him so far

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 2:24 pm

Well, maybe.

But if 5 bowlers was seen as the strategy most likely to win matches that would be Plan A. The fact is that it isn't.

You can argue either way on which is the better strategy, but I'd maintain that England have it right. Headingley '08 and '09 proved the inclination that 5 bowlers could expose the batting to be largely correct.

Prior is good enough to bat six, but that misses the point. You then need somebody equally good at seven to not weaken the batting. We don't have that. Woakes can bat, but little better than Broad could at the start of his Test career. Thus, whilst he can bat 7 an international level he's probably an 8.

And there aren't any genuine all-rounders to cover both. Rikki Clarke's name has become fashionable again in the last year, but its too early to tell if his batting form was a flash in the pan, and he's also not really a Test quality bowler these days if he ever was.

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Post by JDizzle Wed 20 Mar 2013, 2:26 pm

If we get 5 dry days, England should win this Test match whoever bats at 6 to be honest. I'd play Bairstow for sure and I'd consider resting Anderson as well if he's still feeling a bit dodgy. Although this opens the same can of worms as after the WI series with him being slightly annoyed about him being dropped so maybe it is not such a good idea...

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Post by msp83 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 3:15 pm

Think Bairstow for the injured KP would be the direction England would take, and I don't really mind that. I don't think playing Woakes could make that much of a difference if the track is going to be on the slower side and it would certainly weaken the batting.The English batting hasn't exactly on top of their game in the last couple of matches. They really had a poor match in the first game, and even in the 2nd game, they did experienced a middle order collapse. Prior batting down at 7 and pushing the total up to 465 had made an impact on the game's course, although not eventually. But if the conditions are good for swing and if the track has something for the seamers, then I would consider Woakes.
If Anderson is not hundred %, he shouldn't play, no need to take a chance and aggravate the situation.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 3:48 pm

Get Bairstow in for KP. Great chance for Bairstow to challenge for the no.6 spot long-term with Root, who has had a pretty appalling series thus far - 14 runs in 3 innings! I'd also be tempted to play Onions in place of Anderson, we don't want Anderson to aggravate that injury any further.

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Post by Guest Wed 20 Mar 2013, 5:35 pm

Huge blow that KP is out, however the good news is that he wont play IPL!

IMO Morgan will play...dont know why, but i have a hunch....Root needs runs!

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Post by gboycottnut Wed 20 Mar 2013, 5:54 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:Well, maybe.

But if 5 bowlers was seen as the strategy most likely to win matches that would be Plan A. The fact is that it isn't.

You can argue either way on which is the better strategy, but I'd maintain that England have it right. Headingley '08 and '09 proved the inclination that 5 bowlers could expose the batting to be largely correct.

Prior is good enough to bat six, but that misses the point. You then need somebody equally good at seven to not weaken the batting. We don't have that. Woakes can bat, but little better than Broad could at the start of his Test career. Thus, whilst he can bat 7 an international level he's probably an 8.

And there aren't any genuine all-rounders to cover both. Rikki Clarke's name has become fashionable again in the last year, but its too early to tell if his batting form was a flash in the pan, and he's also not really a Test quality bowler these days if he ever was.

Well if Steve Smith is good enough to bat at 5 for Australia V India, I'm sure that Chris Woakes is good enough to bat at 7 for England V NZ. Sort of that, England could move Broad up to bat at 7 and bring in either James Harris or Graham Onions to strengthen our bowling attack which currently only has 2 bowlers in any sort of form so far during this test series in Anderson and Broad. Finn has been disappointing with the ball in hand (looks like he has been spending to much time working on his batting!, whilst Monty Panesar well the less said the better!

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Post by msp83 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 6:05 pm

Going by his declining batting standards, Broad has to bat at 10 just a head of Panesar. But he has revived his bowling many times in his career, perhaps he'll be able to do the same with his batting, but the moment he's nowhere close to being considered even a bowling all-rounder, forget him batting at 7.

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Post by Eyetoldyouso Wed 20 Mar 2013, 6:08 pm

IMO, with KP out there isn't a hope that they will pick 5 bowlers. Root can fill in with a few overs as can Trott, if the quicks need a rest.
Finn, Anderson & Broad, on form, on a sporting wicket, ought to be good enough to bowl NZ out twice even without any help from Monty.


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Post by gboycottnut Wed 20 Mar 2013, 7:17 pm

Eyetoldyouso wrote:IMO, with KP out there isn't a hope that they will pick 5 bowlers. Root can fill in with a few overs as can Trott, if the quicks need a rest.
Finn, Anderson & Broad, on form, on a sporting wicket, ought to be good enough to bowl NZ out twice even without any help from Monty.


So then who the heck bats at 4? Perhaps Andy Flower can persuade Michael Vaughan to come of retirement for one test match!

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 20 Mar 2013, 9:53 pm

CF wrote:Huge blow that KP is out, however the good news is that he wont play IPL!

IMO Morgan will play...dont know why, but i have a hunch....Root needs runs!
What is the problem with him playing in the IPL?

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Post by JDizzle Wed 20 Mar 2013, 9:58 pm

CF, I am willing to bet large amounts of money that Morgan won't play. Mainly because he isn't in NZ as far as I know!

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 10:30 pm

No problem with England players playing in the IPL where the schedule permits.

This year it quite simply doesn't. There are no T20 tournaments, but there are two Ashes series and a Champions Trophy. We also won't be back from NZ until the start of April, and will have been away for most of the winter.

Most England and Australia players have recognised this, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few more that can be certain of playing come July pull out now (Clarke etc.).

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Post by Eyetoldyouso Wed 20 Mar 2013, 11:09 pm

gboycottnut wrote:
Eyetoldyouso wrote:IMO, with KP out there isn't a hope that they will pick 5 bowlers. Root can fill in with a few overs as can Trott, if the quicks need a rest.
Finn, Anderson & Broad, on form, on a sporting wicket, ought to be good enough to bowl NZ out twice even without any help from Monty.


So then who the heck bats at 4? Perhaps Andy Flower can persuade Michael Vaughan to come of retirement for one test match!

Don't show yourself up as an idiot. I was merely stating that they will not pick 5 bowlers. Bell will bat at 4 and Bairstow/Root will be 5/6

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Post by Jetty Thu 21 Mar 2013, 2:56 am

Bairstow last played in India in November and got 9 runs. What form will he be in?

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 21 Mar 2013, 5:58 am

Shelsey93 wrote:No problem with England players playing in the IPL where the schedule permits.

This year it quite simply doesn't. There are no T20 tournaments, but there are two Ashes series and a Champions Trophy. We also won't be back from NZ until the start of April, and will have been away for most of the winter.

Most England and Australia players have recognised this, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few more that can be certain of playing come July pull out now (Clarke etc.).
KP is not a fast bowler.

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 21 Mar 2013, 6:13 am

Shelsey93 wrote:No problem with England players playing in the IPL where the schedule permits.

This year it quite simply doesn't. There are no T20 tournaments, but there are two Ashes series and a Champions Trophy. We also won't be back from NZ until the start of April, and will have been away for most of the winter.

Most England and Australia players have recognised this, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few more that can be certain of playing come July pull out now (Clarke etc.).

Thankfully, they won't.

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 21 Mar 2013, 8:43 am

It doesn't matter. Its the mental fatigue as much as anything.

Despite what some journalists try to suggest 90% of players wouldn't jeopardise international cricket for the IPL. The 10% that do are those whose international careers might benefit from the IPL, or who can't be certain of an international place. And obviously I'm not including Indians, for whom its a home domestic competition and thus a completely different situation.

I'd be gobsmacked if Clarke plays, particularly now his injuries have recurred.

In general, of course, its a good thing - experience in Asia, experience in T20, experience in front of big crowds - but this year isn't about that.

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Post by Stella Thu 21 Mar 2013, 4:44 pm

Bairstow is in then.
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Post by JDizzle Thu 21 Mar 2013, 4:57 pm

No surprise there. It will take a very extreme scenario for 5 bowlers to be considered again under Flower.

Hopefully, if the rain stays away, England should get the job done!

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Post by Duty281 Thu 21 Mar 2013, 5:02 pm

Chance of rain on Saturday according to the BBC, other than that it's fine. Come on England!

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 21 Mar 2013, 7:01 pm

Rumoured that England might play four seamers - because of the short boundaries and brand new drop in pitch. (a rugby match was played at Eden Park last weekend)

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Post by Carrotdude Thu 21 Mar 2013, 7:26 pm

Woakes for Panesar is likely.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 21 Mar 2013, 9:23 pm

Bairstow in for KP, England to bowl first
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 21 Mar 2013, 9:24 pm

Bowling first. Makes a decent change..

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Post by Biltong Thu 21 Mar 2013, 9:29 pm

This scenario was exactly what SA faced last time we went to NZ, if it isn't the weather that holds out on you it is those pesky Black Caps. Wink

Not so simple to just go over there and win a test series.
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Post by NickisBHAFC Thu 21 Mar 2013, 9:38 pm

Good opening bowling from Broad, can see him having a good morning session.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 21 Mar 2013, 9:47 pm

Tennis ball like bounce out there, not amazingly quick
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 21 Mar 2013, 10:01 pm

Fulton just looks like a walking wicket
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Post by NickisBHAFC Thu 21 Mar 2013, 10:27 pm

Not every day you see Monty do a superb bit of fielding like that.

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Post by GSC Thu 21 Mar 2013, 10:32 pm

Why would you insert a team on this pitch.

Another dull pitch, I hope we prepare some pitches with life this summer.
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Post by GSC Thu 21 Mar 2013, 10:35 pm

Only winners on pitches like these are ticket sellers.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 21 Mar 2013, 10:36 pm

GSC wrote:Only winners on pitches like these are ticket sellers.

Judging by the crowd they ain't gonna be getting much either
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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 21 Mar 2013, 10:44 pm

Poor toss decision I think - can see the logic, given the drop-in pitch and NZ's problems in SA, but they've looked solid enough in this series and 'runs on the board' would probably have been a better option.

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Post by Carrotdude Thu 21 Mar 2013, 11:04 pm

Snoozefest.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 21 Mar 2013, 11:19 pm

Monty's launched for a couple of sixes by Rutherford.

Could be in for the long haul here
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Post by JDizzle Thu 21 Mar 2013, 11:27 pm

Poor shot to be honest from Rutherford, just before lunch. Good take by Cook though.

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