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Tuesday's World Cup Qualifiers

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 1:50 pm

Serbia v Scotland (19:30)
Wales v Croatia (19:45)
Republic of Ireland v Austria (19:45)
Northern Ireland v Israel (19:45)
Montenegro v England (20:00)


In Group A, after Scotland lost at home to Wales on Friday, they've hit rock bottom and face a difficult away test to Serbia in horrid conditions. Wales are certainly a bit more buoyant and could just be 4 points off 2nd place with victory over Croatia tonight.

If the Republic of Ireland beat Austria tonight after that dogged display against Sweden, they will go into 2nd place, and will be on the tail of the Germans.

Northern Ireland must beat Israel at home to keep their faint chances of qualification alive.

England? England face their biggest qualifier of the lot tonight, away to Montenegro. We may remember they were in the same group for Euro 2012 qualifying, with 0-0 and 2-2 being the results, the latter game being where Rooney got sent off. Victory for England tonight and they'll be a point clear at the top, and they can start thinking about the 2014 Brazilian carnival. A loss would be disaster, 5 points adrift of top spot, and the murky world of the play-offs will enter into England's thinking. Plenty of build-up as well, the Montenegrin coach has labelled England 'arrogant', a 'long-ball team', and 'scared of Montenegro'. Yeah right.

Predictions

Serbia 3-1 Scotland
Wales 2-1 Croatia
Republic of Ireland 2-0 Austria
Northern Ireland 0-0 Israel
Montenegro 0-3 England.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 4:08 pm

Ireland need Wes. PICK WES
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 6:30 pm

SunSport Now ‏@SunSportNow 3m
Scotland team v Serbia: Marshall, Hutton, Caldwell, Hanley, Whittaker, McArthur, Boyd, Bridcutt, Maloney, Rhodes, Naismith

Like that they're giving the likes of Bridcutt, Boyd, Rhodes a proper run out
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Post by The Special Juan on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 6:38 pm

I had a minor heart attack as I thought that was Kris Boyd...

Do mind games work at international level? I don't and I think the Montenegro coach is talking a load of Korean meatballs.
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Post by Duty281 on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 7:00 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9952095/Montenegro-may-douse-patchwork-pitch-to-level-the-playing-field-with-England.html

Cowardly foreigners! Or it might be more mind games. Montenegro are massively up for this I sense. 6 changes made by the England gaffer:

Hart, Johnson, Smalling, Lescott, Cole, Gerrard, Carrick, Milner, Cleverley, Welbeck, Rooney.

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Post by monty junior on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 7:06 pm

Olly wrote:SunSport Now ‏@SunSportNow 3m
Scotland team v Serbia: Marshall, Hutton, Caldwell, Hanley, Whittaker, McArthur, Boyd, Bridcutt, Maloney, Rhodes, Naismith

Like that they're giving the likes of Bridcutt, Boyd, Rhodes a proper run out

Ooozes mediocrity, who the hell is bridcutt anyway, i'd much much rather give guys with genuine talent like Mackay Steven a run out as opposed to some Englishman in their mid twenties who will probably only play a couple of times. At least Rhodes is playing. Whittaker, Caldwell,Maloney and Hutton just make me want to gouge my eyes out, completely useless players.

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Post by monty junior on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 7:08 pm

Predictions

Serbia 7 Scotland 0
Wales 0 Croatia 3
Republic of Ireland 2 Austria 1
Montenegro 1 England 2

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 7:09 pm

Welbeck. 2 goals all season for the club that are romping away with the league. Yet he starts for England. Baffles me

Sturridge should be in ahead of him every day of the week

Oh and Monty tbf Bridcutt is a pretty handy player
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Post by Crimey on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 7:22 pm

I think what's an issue for England is that there are no in-form wingers, Walcott and Lennon were playing quite well, but both were injured which has left the squad woefully light for wingers.

I'm also not convinced Carrick-Gerrard is a good partnership, they both too similar roles, Carrick is not a defensive midfielder, but Gerrard is the deep-lying playmaker of the side, so I'm not sure what the idea is. Parker would be a better option next to Gerrard, even if he hasn't had that much playing time for England recently.

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Post by monty junior on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 7:50 pm

Serbia really is a dump

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 8:26 pm

#superwoy
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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 8:35 pm

The left foot shot from Glen Johnson, that led to the corner of the goal. Did you think it came off the keeper, bar or both?

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Post by Crimey on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 8:38 pm

I thought it was saved by the keeper then hit the bar.

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Post by sportform on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 8:38 pm

I have never quite understood the hype around Steven Gerrard and why much of the media seem to have their heads stuck up his 'rose tinted' a***.

Every time I watch Liverpool or England, I just see Gerrard running around like a headless chicken, trying 'Hollywood balls' and constantly giving the ball away.

That said, watch locally junior football on Sundays, that is watch our supposed qualified coaches are teaching the kids to do.

England will never win major tournaments until we have a proper chance in philosophy and that needs to start with media hype.
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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 8:44 pm

Disgusting diver.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 8:50 pm

England clearly deserve to be ahead, and 0-2 might even have been fairer after that half than 0-1, had they created one or two more chances it could have been. But it did look like the shot hit the bar. However the keeper may have got a slight touch. I didn't see it, but I guess he did, otherwise there would have been complaints from him and team mates that we didn't see. Anyway, would be good to see it again.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 8:51 pm

Sportsville Gerrard's not having a great game tonight admittedly but he is a very good player!

Surely we must have a better option than Welbeck to play left wing? Heck I'd even out Baines down that wing ahead of him
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Post by Liam on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:00 pm

Wales been very good tonight although Croatia well on top so far second half. Feel Bales miss may come back to bite us on our arses.

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Post by sportform on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:00 pm

Olly wrote:Sportsville Gerrard's not having a great game tonight admittedly but he is a very good player!
Sorry but I have never seen it. Overrated definitely. He is a trier, I'll grant you that and this country loves a trier...

...but I could sit down and go through any England game and pick his game apart. Gives the ball away far too much for a supposed 'class' player and drops far too deep. Just rewind to the 8th then 9th then 10th minute of this game to see him give the ball away unnecessarily when simple balls were on.

Spain/ Barcelona are good because they play the simple ball. Gerrard looks for the 'Hollywood pass' 9 times out of 10.
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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:08 pm

Olly wrote:Sportsville Gerrard's not having a great game tonight admittedly but he is a very good player!

Surely we must have a better option than Welbeck to play left wing? Heck I'd even out Baines down that wing ahead of him

Wellbeck's had a poor game and next to Rooney in this form he just doesn't look the same class. Maybe just below par today though.

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Post by Crimey on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:11 pm

Welbeck just isn't very good, particularly his control of the ball, he just lets it run ahead of him far too much.

Gerrard hasn't had a great game, but as somebody who watches him most weeks I think this is not the norm. He doesn't always look for the Hollywood pass, but obviously plays to his strengths and can open up sides with his passes.

I think Welbeck did dive as well, and would rather the ITV commentators and pundits accepted that. He dived because he didn't have the 30 foot radius he needed to keep control of the ball.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:15 pm

No, I wouldn't call it a dive - quite. He did choose to collapse to the ground slightly theatrically but I think to use the word "dive" there should be almost no contact at all. It's borderline, but I would let him get away with just a "went down easily".

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:17 pm

Went down to easy is a dive.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:19 pm

Are you saying that every time a player goes down and it wasn't a foul it is a dive?

If not, what words would you use to describe the situation where it wasn't a foul but the player goes to ground?

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:20 pm

Wow, Montenegro have created far more in 15 minutes of the second half than all 45 of the first. They have even probably had as many or more chances than England now.

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Post by monty junior on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:22 pm

Another unbelievably poor performance, with the customary assist from Gary Caldwell. At the half way point of the campaign this Scotland team has equaled the worst showing in the countries competitive history with four defeats, the worst thing is the likes of Miller,Caldwell etc don't retire, the team has no heart which was always a hallmark of the side when against better technical team.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:25 pm

Scots used to complain in the 90s about how they couldn't get out of a world cup group stages but at least they consistently qualified, actually did alright in those days for a nation of that size.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:26 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Are you saying that every time a player goes down and it wasn't a foul it is a dive?

If not, what words would you use to describe the situation where it wasn't a foul but the player goes to ground?

If a player falls over when he doesn't need to it is a dive.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:26 pm

The word I would use for that one is that Wellbeck "bought" that free kick. He was looking for the foul.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:29 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Are you saying that every time a player goes down and it wasn't a foul it is a dive?

If not, what words would you use to describe the situation where it wasn't a foul but the player goes to ground?

If a player falls over when he doesn't need to it is a dive.

Sorry, I don't agree. Players rarely "need" to fall over in the sense that they have actually been knocked to the ground and can't stay on their feet. By your definition most fouls include a dive when the player goes to ground. By that definition some stonewall penalties are a dive. If players didn't go to ground on a foul it wouldn't be given 3/4 of the time. Suggest you look up on you tube Gary Neville's masterclass of diving and Michael Owen's interview on the topic, which is also insightful.


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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:31 pm

Montengro have really faltered on the final pass, some judgement and composure in the final third. This type pf second half performance from England would have been really punished against a top side.

The first half was good though, passed the ball around well.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:31 pm

Good defending! That had og written all over it

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:32 pm

It is still a dive, even if they have been fouled prior. Falling to the floor when one doesn't need to is a dive, plain and simple.

It is a problem of the system, referees don't recognise a foul unless a player is on the ground.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:33 pm

God I wish Wilshere was fit, Cleverley isn't nowhere near his level.

Milner done well tonight so far, dangerous crosses and a good job tracking back.
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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:35 pm

Whoever that fan/s is in the crowd sounds like the honey monster crossed with Lemmy!! His tonsils must be killing him!

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:36 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:It is still a dive, even if they have been fouled prior. Falling to the floor when one doesn't need to is a dive, plain and simple.

It is a problem of the system, referees don't recognise a foul unless a player is on the ground.

Yes, it isn't right in a way and is the system, but the way you look at it just isn't the way >90% of football pundits, managers, players and ex players would see it. Check this out, it is worth a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNx5ok60U6A

It's quite long though, you need 14 minutes spare.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:37 pm

Good save, rubbish fluke goal. You have to say though, Montenegro have created more chances in the match. It's deserved.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:38 pm

Interesting if you look at the you tube video Gary Neville actually agrees with you in the sense that he sees many situations as both a dive and a foul. Personally I don't see it as a dive if it was a foul.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:42 pm

The players dive to emphasise the prior foul, it is almost second nature to them. I've never been a very good player and haven't played since my youth but I always tried to stay on my feet. The refs at school boy level were generally pretty decent and didn't need you to fall over to get a foul. This probably sways me somewhat.

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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:42 pm

Henman Bill wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Are you saying that every time a player goes down and it wasn't a foul it is a dive?

If not, what words would you use to describe the situation where it wasn't a foul but the player goes to ground?

If a player falls over when he doesn't need to it is a dive.

Suggest you look up on you tube Gary Neville's masterclass of diving and Michael Owen's interview on the topic, which is also insightful.


This is just sad.

I agree with Jack. The game's gone mad.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:43 pm

Where does his leave us of we come second. Could Roy pull a Mclaren?

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:43 pm

that was probably a dive, there was a very slight touch, but almost nothing

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:44 pm

Watch the video and make your own mind up! And it's been like this for at least >20 years,probably a lot more.

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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:45 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Where does his leave us of we come second. Could Roy pull a Mclaren?

I think Woy would look good under an umbrella.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:47 pm

Young's not shown much maturity either. Settle for a draw now. England haven't offered much goal threat since the first 10 minutes.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:54 pm

Ha, they offered a lot of goal threat for the last 10 minutes after I said that.

Fair result though.

Interesting to see Montenegro players celebrating at the end.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:55 pm

I see Montenegro's world rank is #28. That looks about fair to me.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:59 pm

Decent result I suppose for England. Looked very good in the first half, could and should have been more than 1 up. Second half was a lot more negative and Montenegro deservedly got an equaliser. Of course, England stepped it up again after that! Just wish we had Wilshere and Walcott available, those two would probably have got us the win.

2 points adrift, 4 games left. Home to Moldova, Montenegro, Poland, and away to Ukraine. I fancy us to take 10, maybe even 12 points from that, so I'd still say we'd finish top.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 10:01 pm

Spain are back on track as well, they beat France 1-0 in Paris.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 10:04 pm

I really wish we'd just stop pretending that we one day might be able to play possession football, because it just ain't gonna happen.

Put Rooney behind a big lad up top, a couple of good wingers out wide, and grafters in the middle and play like England. Stop pretending to be something we're not
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