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Tuesday's World Cup Qualifiers

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nasisillmatic
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Post by Duty281 Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:50 am

First topic message reminder :

Serbia v Scotland (19:30)
Wales v Croatia (19:45)
Republic of Ireland v Austria (19:45)
Northern Ireland v Israel (19:45)
Montenegro v England (20:00)


In Group A, after Scotland lost at home to Wales on Friday, they've hit rock bottom and face a difficult away test to Serbia in horrid conditions. Wales are certainly a bit more buoyant and could just be 4 points off 2nd place with victory over Croatia tonight.

If the Republic of Ireland beat Austria tonight after that dogged display against Sweden, they will go into 2nd place, and will be on the tail of the Germans.

Northern Ireland must beat Israel at home to keep their faint chances of qualification alive.

England? England face their biggest qualifier of the lot tonight, away to Montenegro. We may remember they were in the same group for Euro 2012 qualifying, with 0-0 and 2-2 being the results, the latter game being where Rooney got sent off. Victory for England tonight and they'll be a point clear at the top, and they can start thinking about the 2014 Brazilian carnival. A loss would be disaster, 5 points adrift of top spot, and the murky world of the play-offs will enter into England's thinking. Plenty of build-up as well, the Montenegrin coach has labelled England 'arrogant', a 'long-ball team', and 'scared of Montenegro'. Yeah right.

Predictions

Serbia 3-1 Scotland
Wales 2-1 Croatia
Republic of Ireland 2-0 Austria
Northern Ireland 0-0 Israel
Montenegro 0-3 England.

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Post by GSC Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:07 am

Hart: 7, Dealt with everything he could be expected to.
Cole: 7, solid performance
Lescott: 8, rock of Englands defense
Smalling: 7, felt he coped well despite little shielding from midfield
Johnson: 6, caught out a few times in the 2nd half
Carrick: 10, his supporters say when he plays well you don't notice him. His finest performance yet in that regard.
Gerrard: 5, misplaced passes and struggled to impact the game
Cleverey: n/a, I'd rate him, but for the life of me I can't remember him doing anything.
Milner: 6, put a shift in, but lacking offensively
Welbeck: 5, again put a shift in but lacked offensively.
Rooney: 7, ran the show in the first half. Deprived of service in the 2nd.

Hodgson: 4, got it spot on in the first half, but it didn't take me, or anyone else, half an hour to see England needed a change.
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Post by GSC Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:08 am

We took on Brazil with possession football and out played them.

Difference is no Wilshere tonight. That and Carrick isn't good, Cleverley isn't half the player Wilshere is, and Gerrard is so over the hill hes below sea level.
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Post by Steffan Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:09 am

Disappointing Wales result. We dominated the first half and got the goal but went off the boil second half and conceeded 2 goals. Gutting. From what I heard from what the pundits were saying after the mighty world beaters England (Brazil is the year for Roy and the boys) game on ITV it was the same except the mighty world beaters England didnt lose I guess

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Post by NickisBHAFC Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:42 am

Well just got in from the pub and what a **** result. Our midfield is nothing without Whilshire. 1-1 draw against Montenegro is simply not good enough even if people say it is a tough place to go, just compare the sides we should be beating them!

Few Points

.Rooney class, ran the show, best he has played for the country for a while.
.Defending for there goal was laughable.
. Roy should of made changes earlier
.Ashley Young last attack of the game and he can't get his bluddy corner past first man
. England would of exploded if a famous Gerrard ping went in at the end.
. Cleverly shouldn't play for England, simply not good enough to play in that hole.
. Where was the Ox?
.Lescott and Smalling's partnership was decent.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:45 am

A **** result would have been a loss, a draw, whilst not good, isn't a disaster either.
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Post by NickisBHAFC Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:49 am

As for Scotland, delighted Liam Bridcutt got a well deserved call up, shame about there defeat. Shame Wales threw the lead away and there small chances of a play off place. Northen Island, meh. If Ireland want to be qualifying, they have to beat Austria at home IMO.

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Post by GSC Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:10 am

Disappointed in the lack of ambition by Bridcutt.

Darlow told a better nation, Wales, to do one
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Post by monty junior Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Bridcutt, played well in the first half, composed on the ball, pity you couldn't say the same for the rest of the side, diabolical. Football is supposed to be our national sport and none of our top players can pass the ball.

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Post by nasisillmatic Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:12 pm

Olly wrote:I really wish we'd just stop pretending that we one day might be able to play possession football, because it just ain't gonna happen.

Put Rooney behind a big lad up top, a couple of good wingers out wide, and grafters in the middle and play like England. Stop pretending to be something we're not

I agree.

Although most might not agree, I think Carroll should be in the England squad when fit. England need a big man up top.

Do any Man Utd fans rate Cleverley? It might just be me, but I cannot see what he offers to a team.

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Post by Ent Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:24 pm

nasisillmatic wrote:
Olly wrote:I really wish we'd just stop pretending that we one day might be able to play possession football, because it just ain't gonna happen.

Put Rooney behind a big lad up top, a couple of good wingers out wide, and grafters in the middle and play like England. Stop pretending to be something we're not

I agree.

Although most might not agree, I think Carroll should be in the England squad when fit. England need a big man up top.

Do any Man Utd fans rate Cleverley? It might just be me, but I cannot see what he offers to a team.

Most do, he's very need and tidy cycling possession and works very well in the teams pressing system. He's always going to be better in a good team - he's not an individual star and never will be.

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:52 pm

I think that's why Cleverley always looks poor for England, he's playing with inferior players when he plays for England, players with no invention or killer instinct. When he plays for United everyone else does the creative stuff, he keeps it simple, he looks good. But for England you need to be creative, and he just cannot do it. Rio would have been better in that role last night.
GSC wrote:Carrick: 10, his supporters say when he plays well you don't notice him. His finest performance yet in that regard.
Laugh


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Post by Crimey Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:12 pm

Hart 6 - Made some good saves, but also flopped at others and seemed an accident waiting to happen. A shadow of last year's player.

Johnson 6 - An off day for Johnson, Montenegro's tactics stifled his attacking and defending he was never really challenged.

Smalling 7 - Played well, good in the air and for the most part kept them at bay.

Lescott 7 - A good performance from the underrated Lescott. Justified his starting spot.

Cole 6 - Got forward well, but did nothing with the ball, signs that he's not as good as days gone by defensively.

Gerrard 4 - A poor game from Gerrard, especially considering his form for club and country. Nearly saved the game at the death.

Carrick 4 - Really poor by Carrick, didn't shield the defence, didn't start attacks. Did nothing at all.

Milner 6 - Played okay, he seems to just cross into dangerous areas rather than aim for the striker. Doesn't have the pace to beat his man.

Cleverley 4 - No idea what he was there to do, whatever it was he didn't do it. If he didn't play for United, he wouldn't be in the side.

Welbeck 4 - Poor from Welbeck, never had control of the ball, was diving, failed to link up with Rooney to justify his selection.

Rooney 6 - A fairly good first half performance, best England one for a while, but faded badly as the team did and doesn't have the ability to drag the team through tough times.

I think the most disappointing performance was Hodgson who just didn't recognise that the team needed a change a lot earlier before, definitely before the goal.

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:38 pm

Woeful from England. Cleverley should be nowhere near this england squad, he's just a more mobile version of gareth barry who knocks it from side to side and has no offensive threat to the goal whatsoever. Without wilshere there is absolutely no penetration or running with the ball from central areas. Welbeck has improved vastly but he's no goal scorer, just puts more pressure on rooney to perform. Cole has no pace whatsover, baines should without doubt be playing now. Lescott's snail pace was embarrasing. Second half they made tactical changes and we had no idea who to pick up, jovetic was quiet and then suddenly came alive and was running the show and showed why Carrick is not the ideal holding midfielder at this level, just doesnt suit him unlike Parker. Milner, works hard but offers nothing, only in the team because hodgson loves his defensive wingers.

Hodgson, poor night - no reaction to their tactical switch and just sat there biting his nails. Why he continues to brown nose cleverley is quite frankly astounding. Once again big team bias and the same goes for lescott playing ahead of steven taylor. 'Still in our own hands'.........haha shocking comments. we've only beaten san marino & moldova, quite frankly embarrasing and then gerrard has the cheek to say in his post game interview that we can easily win the remaining four games. picard

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Post by GSC Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:40 pm

Eh a half of great and a half of poor.

Roy needed to change it, Parker needed to come on.

Lescott played well for me, ESP given the lack of protection from midfield
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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:42 pm

---------------- Hart
Walker-Jagielka-Cahill-Baines
------- Gerrard-Parker
Walcott---Wilshere--Sturridge
-------------Rooney

Would be my preferred line-up for the next qualifier.

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Post by CFCNick Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:54 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:---------------- Hart
Walker-Jagielka-Cahill-Baines
------- Gerrard-Parker
Walcott---Wilshere--Sturridge
-------------Rooney

Would be my preferred line-up for the next qualifier.

I'd go with this 11. Hart, Walker, Cahill, Dawson/Caulker, Baines, Walcott, Lampard, Parker, Wilshere, Lennon, Rooney.

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Post by Crimey Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:00 pm

I don't know why so many people are clamouring for Walker to be in the side who hasn't been anywhere near as good as Glen Johnson this year. Maybe last year he had a case, but Johnson has been very good this year while Walker's development has stalled.

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:02 pm

See I don't really care how people do for their clubs, it's how they perform for Roy's England team I care about. Cleverley is dog-awful for England, has been in all but 1 cap he's received, and Johnson isn't as good for England as Walker is.

What I'd really love is Micah Richards to get back to the form he was in a couple of years ago, when he was a colossus both defensively and offensively and looked like he'd be a monster for 10+ years for England. I hate Mancini for ruining him like he has.

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Post by Crimey Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:04 pm

Walker hasn't played in an important game for England, so I'm not sure how you can compare their two performances. As it is, I don't think Johnson has done anything to suggest that Walker would be better. I think if Walker was selected, it wouldn't be long before people realised that he's extremely over-hyped.

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:05 pm

Crimey wrote:I don't know why so many people are clamouring for Walker to be in the side who hasn't been anywhere near as good as Glen Johnson this year. Maybe last year he had a case, but Johnson has been very good this year while Walker's development has stalled.

Totally agree. Walker's had a poor season compared to last. Defensively their both prone to mistakes, however offensively their is no doubt in my mind that Johnson offers a bigger threat in terms of ball control and ability to score. As long as Cleverley is nowhere near the squad come Moldova then I will be pleased, however Hodgson will probably still pick him and we will beat them by three or four goals and then he'll be saying we are back in business and can beat anybody. Same old rubbish.




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Post by GSC Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:05 pm

Suarez punched somebody apparently. For a great footballer is really is a muppet
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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:06 pm

Oh he is, massively. But until he's proven how poor he is, I'd rather give him a go than Johnson, who astounds me with his penchant for bombing down the right, losing the ball, then not bothering to track back. If I was picked as England's RB I'd burst all my internal organs to get back into position, Johnson just doesn't bother, which is why Milner keeps getting picked. I'd rather see Jagielka at RB than Johnson, because it would allow an actual attacking threat - Walcott, Lennon, Oxo Cube, Young, whoever - to do the attacking, rather than Johnson.

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Post by Crimey Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:13 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Oh he is, massively. But until he's proven how poor he is, I'd rather give him a go than Johnson, who astounds me with his penchant for bombing down the right, losing the ball, then not bothering to track back. If I was picked as England's RB I'd burst all my internal organs to get back into position, Johnson just doesn't bother, which is why Milner keeps getting picked. I'd rather see Jagielka at RB than Johnson, because it would allow an actual attacking threat - Walcott, Lennon, Oxo Cube, Young, whoever - to do the attacking, rather than Johnson.

I must be watching a different player then, I've never seen Johnson not bother tracking back. He always gets back, and actually has the pace to keep up with a lot of wingers as well. It'd have been interesting to see who was selected if Walcott and Lennon weren't injured as I certainly wouldn't have been surprised to see one of them selected on the right instead of Milner.

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:17 pm

We must be watching two different players, agreed. Last night I counted 7 separate occasions where Johnson went forward, lost the ball with a poor pass or trying to do too much, then laboured back while Milner chased the man down the line. If Johnson DID track back, I wouldn't have so much of a beef with him censored

Any RW of Walcott/Lennon + Johnson is asking for trouble, and I think Roy's more sensible than that. Unfortunately for us, that either means lots of Kyle Walker, or lots of James Milner.

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Post by Crimey Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:37 pm

Kyle Walker is no more defensively sound than Glen Johnson.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:12 am

I'd give him 65/100 compared to Johnson's 62/100. They're both attacking full-backs that are prone to costly errors, and if either plays, Milner is needed ahead of them. Poor Theo Laugh

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:38 am

John wrote:Woeful from England. Cleverley should be nowhere near this england squad, he's just a more mobile version of gareth barry who knocks it from side to side and has no offensive threat to the goal whatsoever. Without wilshere there is absolutely no penetration or running with the ball from central areas. Welbeck has improved vastly but he's no goal scorer, just puts more pressure on rooney to perform. Cole has no pace whatsover, baines should without doubt be playing now. Lescott's snail pace was embarrasing. Second half they made tactical changes and we had no idea who to pick up, jovetic was quiet and then suddenly came alive and was running the show and showed why Carrick is not the ideal holding midfielder at this level, just doesnt suit him unlike Parker. Milner, works hard but offers nothing, only in the team because hodgson loves his defensive wingers.

Hodgson, poor night - no reaction to their tactical switch and just sat there biting his nails. Why he continues to brown nose cleverley is quite frankly astounding. Once again big team bias and the same goes for lescott playing ahead of steven taylor. 'Still in our own hands'.........haha shocking comments. we've only beaten san marino & moldova, quite frankly embarrasing and then gerrard has the cheek to say in his post game interview that we can easily win the remaining four games. picard

With beaten Brazil, Spain and Belgium recently so it's not really that outrageous to suggest we can win our final 4 games.

My starting xi for the next game would be (injuries permitting)

--------------------Hart-----------------
Johnson---Cahill---Jagielka---Baines
------------Gerrard---Carrick----------
Milner-----------Wilshere------Sturridge
--------------------Rooney-------------------

I thought Milner did well last night and put in some pretty dangerous crosses. Obviously he's never gonna take on a player consistently but he does a job for the team.

Carrick to start at home I think, so we can keep possession better but away would probs start Parker/Phil Jones.

Johnson at RB cos Kyle Walker is much worse
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Post by Crimey Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:44 am

I think last night was, if not proof, at least strong evidence that Carrick can't fit into the England system. Gerrard is the captain and one of England's better performers (usually) so is not going to be dropped, so for me Carrick has to go for a more defensive minded midfielder to break up the play. Parker has been very good at that since he broke into the England set up and is probably the best option for now, with Jones perhaps in there for the long term. Carrick simply lets the opposing side waltz past him, they got far too much space ahead of the midfield.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:48 am

Agreed Crimey, Carrick has never fit into the England set up, and those games he has played he is not up to the job he's been asked to do. Parker/Jones would be infinitely preferable, although there are huge question marks over Jones's ability to stay fit.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:48 am

Crimey wrote:I think last night was, if not proof, at least strong evidence that Carrick can't fit into the England system. Gerrard is the captain and one of England's better performers (usually) so is not going to be dropped, so for me Carrick has to go for a more defensive minded midfielder to break up the play. Parker has been very good at that since he broke into the England set up and is probably the best option for now, with Jones perhaps in there for the long term. Carrick simply lets the opposing side waltz past him, they got far too much space ahead of the midfield.

I'd agree Crimey, but at home to the likes of Moldova (think we have them next?) he should play over Parker/Jones, mainly because we shouldn't really need them
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Post by Liam Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:24 am

I'd prefer Walker in the Johnson vs Walker debate personally. Walker is a big athletic lad also which helps at set pieces. I'd also like a good club partnership with Lennon down the right wing. Him and Walker know each other from Spurs and have a good understanding and could be a real good partnership for England imo.

Wilshere is a big loss for you guys at the moment, I think him and Carrick would be a great centre midfield partnership. Both are excellent at maintaining possession with Carrick being able to sit a little deeper. Wilshere could be given more license to go forward and link up with Rooney and whoever else is playing up top.

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Post by dummy_half Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:49 am

A real game of two halves last night, and we really should have been out of sight by half time. Second half was hugely disappointing bar the last 10 minutes, as we just seemed totally devoid of ideas of how to turn the game back around in our favour.

Serious black mark against Hodgson for not recognising the need to change personnel much earlier in the 2nd half. I'd have been inclined to put the Ox on rather than Young, because of his extra pace and more ability to play inside - would have pushed the Montenegro defenders back a bit and taken the pressure off our midfield.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:59 am

Why do we lose games at international level????? Answer - shambolic ball retention/possession. Carrick is a player who does this, it's natural to him and the only reason he's not worked so far is because Cleverley is sitting next to him doing precisely nothing and offering no threat. Carrick, Gerrard & Wilshere is the midfield three we desperately need, no doubt about it. Why you would want Carrick removed is remarkable. If we did drop him, guess what we will be saying next summer when we are eliminated, 'why are they so much better at keeping the ball and passing it?'..........Also we've beaten San Marino & Moldova, that's it.......stop harping on about winning friendly games that mean absolutely nothing other than a money making exercise for the F.A and a chance to mix up the teams at half time and play youth?????

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - HART - - - - - - - - -

johnson --- - jagielka - - -- -Ferdinand - - - -baines-

- - - -wilshere - - - -carrick - - - -gerrard - - - - - - - - -

walcott - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - -young - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - -rooney - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

everyday of the week. I don't usually like rooney up top on his own but the alternatives are dire. Hodgson should scrap cleverley and scrap these defensive wingers. Who goes into a game we should be winning and outclassing by being so defensive. Wingers attack, end of.


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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:06 am

1-1 against Montenegro picard

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Post by GSC Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:07 am

Carrick was dog yesterday in his job as chief ball 2 yard passer.
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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:09 am

we started off well with good intent...but like always we fell away!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:10 am

Ah the old friendlies dont matter excuse...

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:15 am

Carrick has never had a good game for England. Never. Forget other players, each and every time he has been given a chance, he's muffed it. He's terrible for England, as good as he is for United, he's not that guy for England.

Scrap Carrick AND Cleverley, and get players who CAN perform at this level. Wilshere, Gerrard, Lampard are all known quantities, Parker too, who else can get the nod in the middle?

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:17 am

i dont rate Carrick or Cleverly at all!

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:30 am

why are you stating that friendlies do matter, they don't. There an exercise in absolute rubbish other than money making exercise for F.A's or self promoting new stadium builds, hence why no1 turns upto them and why managers despise them during the season. 45 minutes of action and then a haul of subs and tactics out the window - complete waste of time, just gives the youngsters the opportunity to gain experience in a national shirt. Belgium were already on holiday when we played them and beat them before the Euro's but because england won we've got to shout about it for the next five years. Winning friendlies and not winning competitive games is more than worrying.

Your looking for players who CAN perform at this level and then you name Gerrard & Lampard. That's the same Lampard who has failed to score in the last two world cups. Carrick has hardly been given a chance or more importantly people in this country just don't like his style of play but if he was spanish or italian he would be cherished playing in the same mould of xavi or pirlo. Cleverley is shocking, i blame fergie for bigging him up into something he's not but because fergie says something everyone listens.

wilshere, gerrard & carrick are out best options for keeping possession aswell as having an offensive threat from midfield. rodwell is finished, cleverley is shocking, barry should be retired, osman is not good enough, parker is a holding midfielder and basically playing him is just saying 'we're going to sit back and defend'. there are no other options. I'm not having a go, just stating reality of the situation.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:43 am

Friendlies do matter, provided you treat them right. England don't, hence why they contribute very little to our cohesion and mantra during qualifying.

Lampard DID score at WC 2010, but the ref and lino missed it. And he's looked a far better player for England than Carrick ever has, not to mention 27 goals to the good.

I have no idea what Leon Osman is still doing in this squad either...

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:51 am

hodgson is clueless and this attempt at trying to play football the 'spanish way' is ridiculous when you clearly dont have the players. Yes, he's getting praised for it and we are in this transition phase but it's clearly not working when you've only beaten san marino & moldova competitively. English football is all about speed and counter-attacking football. Why do we create players and wingers such as Walcott, Sturridge, Lennon, Young, Oxlade and even Zaha who possess great pace and attacking threat if Hodgson is going to turn round and say, 'no we need wingers who can defend and help out full backs for 90% of the game'.......absolutely brainless. No wonder we've got no goal threat other than rooney/defoe and lampard penalties.

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Post by GSC Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:58 am

Carrick is closer to the English Joe Allen than Xavi or Pirlo
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Post by Liam Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:02 am

Carrick has been superb this season. He had a great game against France a few years ago if I remember rightly. Plus he hasn't been involved in the a England set up for a while which can always have an impact.

I do find it funny how during the euro warm up games and the euro's themselves, when i said ball retention was imperative in intl football, i was shot down and told only results matter. Well ball retention get's you results. You lose the ball at intl level you will get found out because its the best of the best that represent their countries.

Wilshere
Carrick

Probably the best ball retention players England have. Need to build the team around those two. Rooney cannot play up front on his own, simples. He has to play in the hold so he can drop deep to receive the ball and get involved in the game.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:04 am

The same Carrick who has been an ever-present in United's midifield this season and will probably be voted in the EPL team of the year alongside bale and mata.

Reserve judgement until the midfield three is wilshere, gerrard & carrick. That is by the best combination for england going forward, although hodgson will look elsewhere no doubt.

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:20 am

Dunno about that. Gerrard looks like his age is starting to tell. He looked leggy in the second half against Montenegro and lost the ball on numerous occasions. Best thing he did all match was provide the corner for Rooney's goal.

Not that any of our outfield players covered themselves in glory in the second half. I actually made Joe Hart my man of the match.

Agree about Wilshere and Carrick though. Also agree with Liam about Rooney. He looked lost and ineffectual when we were on the defensive. With a strike partner, he could drop deep as he likes to do, to get the ball.
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