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The v2Forum Hall of Fame discussion thread

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Post by Shelsey93 Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:35 am

First topic message reminder :

The thread to debate additions to the v2Forum Cricket Hall of Fame

Current members:
https://www.606v2.com/t18388-606v2-cricket-hall-of-fame-inductees-graphics-included

FoF's original HoF debate summation:
Spoiler:

Previous debate:
https://www.606v2.com/t17447-the-606v2-cricket-hall-of-fame-part-1
https://www.606v2.com/t21577-the-606v2-cricket-hall-of-fame-part-2#831213
https://www.606v2.com/t28256-the-606v2-cricket-hall-of-fame-part-3
https://www.606v2.com/t37142-the-v2forum-cricket-hall-of-fame-discussion-thread-part-4#1671498



Right, voting for the current round will close on Sunday - 10am.

Here are my votes:

Charlie Turner - Clearly Australia's stand-out bowler of the pre-World War I era. Yes, he may have had financial issues. But they don't really influence my perception of him as a cricket. He left Tests slightly early but was at an age by which many bowlers of later eras were worn out by. It must also be considered that a tour then consisted of months on a boat so playing international cricket too often was never going to help you financially (amateur game of course). YES

Bill Johnston - I said earlier that he was certainly a serious candidate. But sadly I can't quite find it in me to vote Yes for him. Firstly, he had a few too many poor series. Secondly, he seems very much to have been the third man in a top notch attack. To get in as an unsung hero he probably needed to have played a few more than 40 Tests.

Hugh Tayfield - Very similar sentiments to those I had with Johnston. Of course, it is in Tayfield's favour that he's SA best spinner. But I don't think he was a great - more of an important cog in a decent team. Has probably suffered from not having someone champion his case. NO

Makhaya Ntini - A very good bowler on his day, but it wasn't always his day and he wasn't in the class of a lot of his contemporaries and near contemporaries. His role as an icon is indisputable, but isn't sufficient to get him in the Hall in my view. Only time can tell if he can make a difference. NO

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:53 am

Sorry to see that one of HOF Candidate Fred Titmus's great rivals, tho' not for the HOF, has died.
John Mortimore, who was the very essence of the top flight County Cricketer (and I mean in a very positive way, unlike those who wish to cast aspersions). Three "doubles", almost 16,000 runs, 1,800 wickets in a line-up that, for much of the time, also contained David Allen.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:05 pm

Kwini - sorry to hear of John Mortimore's death. Unfortunately, I (and I fear I'm not alone) best remember him in a similar way to how many think of Malcolm Nash being put to the sword by Garry Sobers. I refer to that televised Gillette Cup semi-final from the early 1970s when Lancs' David Hughes plundered 24 runs off an over from Mortimore to snatch victory as the clock neared 9 o'clock in the evening and darkness descended.

Nonetheless, still very much ''the very essence of the top flight County Cricketer'' as you say in a tribute that I fully understand and appreciate.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:36 pm

guildford,
I hadn't remembered that Mortimore was on the receiving end of the Hughes onslaught.
In a small way, that was one of the early "milestones" of one day cricket.
David Hughes, probably one of the last Wisden Cricketers of the Year who was a true County man. Used to love watching him play.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:16 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:guildford,
I hadn't remembered that Mortimore was on the receiving end of the Hughes onslaught.
In a small way, that was one of the early "milestones" of one day cricket.
David Hughes, probably one of the last Wisden Cricketers of the Year who was a true County man. Used to love watching him play.

Absolutely. In its own smaller way, that over from Mortimore to Hughes was comparable to the one from Nash to Sobers. Mortimore's over - or rather the destruction that Hughes inflicted -was ground breaking in showing how a run rate (although we didn't know that term then) could be recovered. I don't know if that was then the most runs scored off a single over in a limited overs game; it probably wasn't but it was still exceptionally unusual at the time. It really caught the public's attention, particularly as it was shown live on tv with other programmes being shelved as play went beyond the expected finish time in the darkening gloom. A real treat and happy memories, although probably not for Mortimore!

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Post by msp83 Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:15 pm

We seem to be like England in the recent Ashes!. Any chance of a South Africa like turn around?
I would like someone to initiate a bit more discussion on Marsh. I've had a look at some of the earlier debate, they are interesting, I would hope for a bit more.......

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Post by guildfordbat Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:08 am

Msp - I admire your Rogers-like tenacity.

I really need to go through your admirable posts and attachments in support of Kirsten and will do so. Just hope I won't be alone - you and your candidate deserve better.

I also haven't forgotten about your 'folk hero' query as to Titmus. I've dug up something, not that relevant but may raise a smile. Will post soon.

Marsh appears to be suffering (as he did first time out, just like Thommo) from having no one prepared to fight his corner. I gave Marsh a narrow YES last time and will look to repeat why. I doubt that my own view will alter but, equally, there probably won't be enough there to change the minds of previous NO voters who are still around. All a bit of a shame which I think is where msp came in ....


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Post by msp83 Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:34 am

Lets hope Guildford, that we are not left alone here.

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Post by kingraf Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:40 am

I could vote yes for Marsh - given a convincing enough case - a hall of fame isn't supposed to be (imho) a All-time XI, but rather a place for cricketers/managers who have left the game in a better place. Think Stallone getting into the boxing hall of fame. I know this is at odds with me not voting for Titmus, but I just don't think his impact was large enough
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Post by kwinigolfer Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:59 pm

Happy Birthday to HOF'er John Arlott: 100 yrs old today!

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Post by guildfordbat Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:49 pm

Kwini - the perfect excuse for a large glass of the red.

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:53 pm

Indeed guildford, tho it's not my customary 6.00 a.m. tipple.

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Post by guildfordbat Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:23 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Indeed guildford, tho it's not my customary 6.00 a.m. tipple.

Yes, but it is for Arlott.  Wink 

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Post by Guest Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:36 am

come to a halt again..

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed May 21, 2014 12:09 am

If there was a Hall Of Fame for slip-fielding alone, Philip Sharpe would be a Charter Member.
Sad day for one of post-war England's least athletic-looking Test Cricketers.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Wed May 21, 2014 12:39 am

kwinigolfer wrote:If there was a Hall Of Fame for slip-fielding alone, Philip Sharpe would be a Charter Member.
Sad day for one of post-war England's least athletic-looking Test Cricketers.

Very true. Phil was magnificent slip fielder.

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Post by Shelsey93 Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:16 am

A few Hall of Famers make my rundown of county comebacks - http://deepextracover.com/2014/05/31/county-cricket-comebacks-the-successful-the-romantic-and-the-failed/#.U4pFE16y_t1

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Post by kingraf Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:58 am

So uh, we try again.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:42 am

Watching the Bradman thing on Sky, and it still baffles me how this one guy is just so far ahead of the pack in terms of average and runs (imagine how many he'd have scored if WW2 hadn't happened!!)

It's something I'll never ever get me head round
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Post by kwinigolfer Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:41 am

I hadn't realised that the ICC Hall Of Fame was inducting three cricketers in 2015, having drawn a blank in 2014.

Martin Crowe and Anil Kumble are the lucky ones who will have to hone their speech-making skills, the first ones to do so since Adam Gilchrist, Debbie Hockley, Bob Simpson, Shane Warne and Waqar Younis in 2013. Betty Wilson is also among the 2015 generation, a posthumous honour.

Still think they're joining the Football League HOF in focussing almost exclusively (now anyway) on relatively recent retirees; a commercial imperative they must think, but they definitely run the risk of forgetting stalwarts of the past.
Which was one of the points of this thread!

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:25 pm

I see we've lost a v2 Forum HOF candidate of threads gone by:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/34025818

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:59 am

Shocking to hear of Martin Crowe's death . . . . . . . . .

Not the "lucky one" any longer . . . . . . . .

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Post by wisden Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:46 am

used to enjoy this thread..

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue May 07, 2019 11:57 pm

And another fringe HOF player tips his cap and enters the pavilion in the sky: Seymour Nurse, elegant middle order batsman, wonderful cover fielder, unsung but vital member of the Sobers-era teams.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed May 08, 2019 6:09 pm

Kwini - given the pushing and shoving I had to do to get Kanhai and Greenidge through the door to the Hall of Fame, I wasn't going to attempt the same for Seymour Nurse. Nonetheless, a very fine West Indies cricketer of the 1960s who, by general consent including Sobers, retired from Test cricket too early. I noticed that the often under rated Desmond Haynes also paid tribute to Nurse yesterday.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu May 09, 2019 2:58 am

guildfordbat wrote:Kwini - given the pushing and shoving I had to do to get Kanhai and Greenidge through the door to the Hall of Fame, I wasn't going to attempt the same for Seymour Nurse. Nonetheless, a very fine West Indies cricketer of the 1960s who, by general consent including Sobers, retired from Test cricket too early. I noticed that the often under rated Desmond Haynes also paid tribute to Nurse yesterday.


Was thinking there might be a nice tribute on the BBC web-site, but not a single mention that I can find. Pathetic.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Tue May 14, 2019 10:42 pm

Belatedly, sorry to hear that Seymour Nurse has retired to the celestial pavillion. Names from that great era for West Indian gradually taking their leave.

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:40 am

[quote="Corporalhumblebucket"]Belatedly, sorry to hear that Seymour Nurse has retired to the celestial pavillion. Names from that great era for West Indian gradually taking their leave.  [/quote


Including today's news that Basil Butcher is joined Seymour Nurse in that celestial pavilion . . . . . . Out at 86.

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Post by dummy_half Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:33 am

kwinigolfer wrote:
Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Belatedly, sorry to hear that Seymour Nurse has retired to the celestial pavillion. Names from that great era for West Indian gradually taking their leave.  [/quote


Including today's news that Basil Butcher is joined Seymour Nurse in that celestial pavilion . . . . . . Out at 86.

Not a player I'd heard of prior to this (I'm a bit young - can vaguely remember Kalicharan, and obviously names like Sobers and Kanhai, but mainly the late 70s onwards WI team). Anyway, 86 is a fairly decent innings...

One of the quirky cricket stats I like - Butcher played 44 Tests, and took 5 wickets with his occasional leg spin. His best bowling figures? 5-34. All his wickets came as a Michelle in one innings...

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:55 am

I believe Everton Weekes was the last remaining survivor of my first ever first class match, as a young spectator of course.
Wonderful cricketer and, by all accounts, a great man.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:50 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:I believe Everton Weekes was the last remaining survivor of my first ever first class match, as a young spectator of course.
Wonderful cricketer and, by all accounts, a great man.

Kwini - that's a pretty distinctive claim nowadays to have seen such a wonderful cricketer. Everton Weekes was before my (watching time) but his reputation and stats stand out and always will.

Interested in any details and memories of your first ever first class match, thanks.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:45 pm

How about this guildford?

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1957/WI_IN_ENG/WI_HANTS_13-16JUL1957.html

Looking at the teams, I believe all the Hampshire players are in the pavilion in the sky, Malcolm Heath the last to depart last December.

But Wes Hall is obviously still with us, possibly one other but that requires wiki research.
EDIT: Doh And, How did I miss Gary Sobers? And Tom Dewdney also still out in the middle. Both survivors of the Collie Smith accident as it happens.

My favourite tid-bit of trivia is that Portsmouth Grammar School Old Boy, Mike Barnard, played in the first cricket match I attended, having previously been in the first football game, playing for Pompey (5) vs Arsenal (2)! Very fitting as it happens.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:20 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:How about this guildford?

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1957/WI_IN_ENG/WI_HANTS_13-16JUL1957.html

Looking at the teams, I believe all the Hampshire players are in the pavilion in the sky, Malcolm Heath the last to depart last December.

But Wes Hall is obviously still with us, possibly one other but that requires wiki research.
EDIT:  Doh And, How did I miss Gary Sobers? And Tom Dewdney also still out in the middle. Both survivors of the Collie Smith accident as it happens.

My favourite tid-bit of trivia is that Portsmouth Grammar School Old Boy, Mike Barnard, played in the first cricket match I attended, having previously been in the first football game, playing for Pompey (5) vs Arsenal (2)! Very fitting as it happens.

Thanks, Kwini, although you caused momentary serious panic when I read your post yesterday before you had added the EDIT. As you say now, how did you miss Sobers? Shocked I had to check that the world's greatest all rounder was still with us, fearing I might have been out of the country and somehow missed his dismissal a few months back. Fortunately, not the case. Very Happy

Fascinating scorecard. I see Andy Ganteaume opened the batting for the West Indies in this match. However, he, of course, never played a Test on that tour. His only Test and only Test innings was about a decade earlier when he scored 112. The highest Test average of all time disregarding the usual qualification of 20 innings.

I did wonder if Lance Gibbs (who is still with us) might have been on that tour. However, he wasn't in ''your game'' and I suspect this tour came just a season too soon for him.

I haven't looked it up but seem to recall Mike Barnard playing football for Stoke City in the early '70s.

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Post by alfie Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:35 pm

Gibbs would still have been waiting for the "twins " to call it a day , no ? Ramadhin and Valentine were the first choice pair in 1957 I think , though I believe the Gibbs Test debut came later in that year.

Confess I had pretty much forgotten Tom Dewdney : but Sobers and Hall are a double act that remains in the memory quite vividly even after more than half a century...

My brother was fortunate enough to encounter Wes on his trip to West Indies a few years back and manged to spend a bit of time with him...I have never been so envious of a sibling !

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Post by dummy_half Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:48 pm

Obviously sad to hear of the passing of Everton Weekes, who was obviously a fine cricketer and by all accounts a good man.

Interesting though of how a bit of luck helped him - first few tests against England he didn't distinguish himself, and had been dropped from the final test of the series, but got recalled when George Headley withdrew from the team. He was then dropped on 0, but went on to make 141 and established himself in the Test team. Of course the rest is history...

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:32 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:How about this guildford?

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1957/WI_IN_ENG/WI_HANTS_13-16JUL1957.html

Looking at the teams, I believe all the Hampshire players are in the pavilion in the sky, Malcolm Heath the last to depart last December.

But Wes Hall is obviously still with us, possibly one other but that requires wiki research.
EDIT:  Doh And, How did I miss Gary Sobers? And Tom Dewdney also still out in the middle. Both survivors of the Collie Smith accident as it happens.

My favourite tid-bit of trivia is that Portsmouth Grammar School Old Boy, Mike Barnard, played in the first cricket match I attended, having previously been in the first football game, playing for Pompey (5) vs Arsenal (2)! Very fitting as it happens.

Thanks, Kwini, although you caused momentary serious panic when I read your post yesterday before you had added the EDIT. As you say now, how did you miss Sobers? Shocked I had to check that the world's greatest all rounder was still with us, fearing I might have been out of the country and somehow missed his dismissal a few months back. Fortunately, not the case. Very Happy

Fascinating scorecard. I see Andy Ganteaume opened the batting for the West Indies in this match. However, he, of course, never played a Test on that tour. His only Test and only Test innings was about a decade earlier when he scored 112. The highest Test average of all time disregarding the usual qualification of 20 innings.

I did wonder if Lance Gibbs (who is still with us) might have been on that tour. However, he wasn't in ''your game'' and I suspect this tour came just a season too soon for him.

I haven't looked it up but seem to recall Mike Barnard playing football for Stoke City in the early '70s.


I think that was Mike Bernard wasn't it? In a good Stoke side. Went on to play for Everton.

Never got to meet any of those West Indian players, but did admire Gary Sobers' locker at the old Sandy Lane golf course many years ago! I think that Tour was a year too early for Lance Gibbs.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:16 pm

Hi again Kwini - yep, I got my Barnards and Bernards confused! Apologies. Your guy was a few years earlier.

With some cribbing from cricinfo, Gibbs didn't make his Test debut until '58 so probably missed out on this tour. Following up on Alfie's post, as Gibbs was starting out he did play Tests with both Sonny Ramadhin and Alf Valentine although never in the same match. The ''twins'' both finished their Test careers in the early '60s. I'm pleased that Sonny Ramadhin is also still with us, living in Lancs and now into his 92nd over.



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Post by Gooseberry Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:14 pm

There's a Murali biopic in production called "800". Whilst the film is being shot in Tamil its apparently massively unpopular in his home state after he backed a political candidate who was instrumental in putting down the Tamil resistance.

Going to be interesting to see who they cast as Darrel Hair.


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