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Who will be the big names left out of the Lions Squad.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:21 pm

Newspapers today reporting that Chris Robshaw could be the fourth England captain in five tours to not make the cut for the Lions.

With so many positions filled with players of equal merit it must be a selection nightmare confirming who is vital and who in-necessary.

Quite often when called up to a tour after not making the first cut a player has excelled and made a huge impact on the tests. Hope is not over for those who aren't included.

So who in your opinion would be the star players left out of tomorrows Announcement...???

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Post by Artful_Dodger Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:22 pm

Rob Kearney potentially, I think he is behind Halfpenny and Hogg.

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Post by Guest Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:25 pm

Not sure how big a name he is, but I can see Cuthbert being left behind and North taken instead, even though Cuthbert is more prolific at international level.

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:26 pm

Wouldn't be surprised to see Heaslip miss out.
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Post by Artful_Dodger Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:28 pm

rodders wrote:Wouldn't be surprised to see Heaslip miss out.

Wouldn't be surprised but he might be in with a chance after his performance against Biarritz and the fact that there are only two other contenders at number 8 - Faletau and Beattie.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:28 pm

rodders wrote:Wouldn't be surprised to see Heaslip miss out.

I would. Did you see his performance v Biarritz? Very under rated player.

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Post by Geordie Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:33 pm

I think Ashton is an obvious one.



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Post by SecretFly Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:34 pm

Everyone knows...most especially Gatland who is no idiot...that Irish performances in a melt-down International side over the last few years is not in any way reflective of Irish players abilities, when playing in a functioning side, properly coached.

Having said that, I'd agree with Rodders in thinking a few of the Irish players who might be considered real hopefuls might indeed miss out, as Gatland will be controlled by his own opinion that 'form' has to be seen.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:36 pm

Heaslip is very much an interesting one. Blistering games for Leinster and not so for Ireland. Releasing him of the captaincy might see his game return???

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Post by TJ1 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:37 pm

I think th scots will be the unlucky ones. too many of the best Scots players in very competitive positions and / or playing for Edinburgh :-(

Brown I think will miss out despite being IMO the obvious captain choice and the best back row around

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Post by gregortree Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:42 pm

Sheridan

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:43 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:
rodders wrote:Wouldn't be surprised to see Heaslip miss out.

Wouldn't be surprised but he might be in with a chance after his performance against Biarritz and the fact that there are only two other contenders at number 8 - Faletau and Beattie.

Even though he's been injured I would still be surprised not to see Morgan included.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:45 pm

Farrell
AWJ
POC
thumbsup

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:51 pm

Manu Tuilagi.
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Post by GunsGerms Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:52 pm

Ian Madigan.

He has probably been the best 10 in Europe this year but looks set to miss out.


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Post by gregortree Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:53 pm

Balshaw wll be left out.

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:53 pm

Paddy Wallace.
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Post by RubyGuby Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:54 pm

Steve Borthwick thumbsup

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Post by Geordie Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:55 pm

I wouldnt lose any sleep over Farrell or AWJ not going Ruby.



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Post by GunsGerms Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:55 pm

From Ireland. Contenders to miss out:

Madigan
POM
Gilroy
Ryan
Strauss
Ross
Zebo

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Post by Notch Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:55 pm

Laugh Mike McComish
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Post by Biltong Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:58 pm

Can anyone tell me, did Gatland have a wider squad training group where he was able to spend a few days with some squad players from other nations?
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Post by fa0019 Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:02 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Newspapers today reporting that Chris Robshaw could be the fourth England captain in five tours to not make the cut for the Lions.

With so many positions filled with players of equal merit it must be a selection nightmare confirming who is vital and who in-necessary.

Quite often when called up to a tour after not making the first cut a player has excelled and made a huge impact on the tests. Hope is not over for those who aren't included.

So who in your opinion would be the star players left out of tomorrows Announcement...???

I know Borthwick didn't make it in 09 and De Glanville didn't make it in 97 but who was the other 1 to not get selected (the 4 in 5 if Robshaw is left at home)?

Johnson - 01 toured
Corry - 05 toured

Was Corry not the ENG captain in 05?

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Post by GunsGerms Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:02 pm

Johne Murphy

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:03 pm

Don't think so Bilts, he's have visited each of the individual camps though.
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Post by Notch Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:03 pm

GunsGerms wrote:From Ireland. Contenders to miss out:

Madigan
POM
Gilroy
Ryan
Strauss
Ross
Zebo

You can add Kearney and Heaslip to that list.

For what its worth I think the Irish Lions will be Healy, Best, O'Connell, O'Brien, Murray, Sexton, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney

Another thing is, if there's a close call between a Welsh and an Irish player is that if Ulster and Leinster are in the Pro12 final the Welsh lads will have quite a lot more time with the Lions squad before the plane leaves. You might say Madigan over Biggar for instance, but Gatland would have access to Biggar for his two pre-tour training camps whereas Madigan would be straight onto the plane cold. In a 50/50 call that could be decisive.

Our debate always focuses on the quality of individuals but for Gatland, everything revolves around getting the preparation right for the test series. Not necessarily the best players, but rather the best players to deliver his plan.
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Post by fa0019 Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:04 pm

Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me, did Gatland have a wider squad training group where he was able to spend a few days with some squad players from other nations?

I think he met with the squads for a day each during the 6N.

There was no wider training squad though. Perhaps it would be better mind.. Lions trials??? Possibles vs. Probables. COuld solve many selection issues.

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Post by Notch Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:06 pm

Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me, did Gatland have a wider squad training group where he was able to spend a few days with some squad players from other nations?

He's having two training camps in Wales and Ireland respectively before the squad leaves for Hong Kong. Not all the players will be available though as they overlap with the Pro12 and Premiership playoffs.
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Post by fa0019 Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:06 pm

What is the status on Tommy Bowe... is he back yet?

Good player but I think the balance would be a little off if we took Cuthbert and Bowe as the right wings... Too like for like.

I'd prefer one of the above and then either Zebo or Wade to mix up the options.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:08 pm

fa0019 wrote:What is the status on Tommy Bowe... is he back yet?

Good player but I think the balance would be a little off if we took Cuthbert and Bowe as the right wings... Too like for like.

I'd prefer one of the above and then either Zebo or Wade to mix up the options.

He's back and Id be surprised if he wasn't picked.

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Post by fa0019 Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:11 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:What is the status on Tommy Bowe... is he back yet?

Good player but I think the balance would be a little off if we took Cuthbert and Bowe as the right wings... Too like for like.

I'd prefer one of the above and then either Zebo or Wade to mix up the options.

He's back and Id be surprised if he wasn't picked.

Does he look back on form.... I rate him very highly. All round the best wing in the home nations, strong in all departments.

Would you take him over Zebo?... now he is a player who could set the tour alight, perfect country to do so against.

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:11 pm

fa0019 wrote:What is the status on Tommy Bowe... is he back yet?

Yeah came back off the bench in Ulsters loss to Saracens a few weeks ago and has had a couple of starts since, scoring 2 tries.

Still looks like he's getting up to speed but has looked good all things considered.
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Post by GunsGerms Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:18 pm

fa0019 wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:What is the status on Tommy Bowe... is he back yet?

Good player but I think the balance would be a little off if we took Cuthbert and Bowe as the right wings... Too like for like.

I'd prefer one of the above and then either Zebo or Wade to mix up the options.

He's back and Id be surprised if he wasn't picked.

Does he look back on form.... I rate him very highly. All round the best wing in the home nations, strong in all departments.

Would you take him over Zebo?... now he is a player who could set the tour alight, perfect country to do so against.

Yes I would. Zebo is an exciting winger but time and time again Bowe gets the job done. He might not be flash but he is very smart winger and big game breaker. His international try scoring record speaks for itself.

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Post by fa0019 Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:34 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:What is the status on Tommy Bowe... is he back yet?

Good player but I think the balance would be a little off if we took Cuthbert and Bowe as the right wings... Too like for like.

I'd prefer one of the above and then either Zebo or Wade to mix up the options.

He's back and Id be surprised if he wasn't picked.

Does he look back on form.... I rate him very highly. All round the best wing in the home nations, strong in all departments.

Would you take him over Zebo?... now he is a player who could set the tour alight, perfect country to do so against.

Yes I would. Zebo is an exciting winger but time and time again Bowe gets the job done. He might not be flash but he is very smart winger and big game breaker. His international try scoring record speaks for itself.

I'd go with that. Top performer. The only issue is form and injury status. Like JW in 05... there is being back and being fully back. But if he is good to go then I'd have no problems with his selection.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:43 pm

Heaslip is very much an interesting one. Blistering games for Leinster and not so for Ireland. Releasing him of the captaincy might see his game return???

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Post by maestegmafia Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:45 pm

Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me, did Gatland have a wider squad training group where he was able to spend a few days with some squad players from other nations?

He's having two training camps in Wales and Ireland respectively before the squad leaves for Hong Kong. Not all the players will be available though as they overlap with the Pro12 and Premiership playoffs.

He also spent a week with each camp during the six nations.

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Post by The Gramlin Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:46 pm

Euan Murray
Paul O'Connell
Alun Wyn Jones
Chris Robshaw
Chris Ashton

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Post by fa0019 Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:50 pm

Does anyone see Ryan Jones travelling?

I could see the attraction. Good captain, lineout option and tackler. He can play 6, 8 or emergency lock (esp. in AUS where dirttracker packs will be max 850kg compared to test packs of 900kg).

Its a difficult one though...

7 spots with Warburton, Tipuric, O'Brien & Faletau probables and then 3 more spots for Wood, Robshaw, Croft, Morgan, Heaslip, Beattie, Brown & Jones.

I think selection of Robshaw and Brown will be one or the other for sure.

5 of those possible players will be disappointed.

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Post by Geordie Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:58 pm

I dont see Wood travelling.

Ironically of the three England flankers, i think Croft, my least favorite is the one that could travel. And im pretty sure Morgan wont go either.

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Post by fa0019 Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:00 pm

I agree... I think Croft will travel and Wood and Morgan won't. I think they will be joined by Brown, Jones and Beattie (a fav. of mine still).

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Post by rodders Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:04 pm

fa0019 wrote:Does anyone see Ryan Jones travelling?

Maybe but there's a lot of competition in the backrow. I'd like to see him make it though. Top player and brings experience and leadership.
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Post by majesticimperialman Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:09 pm

Sam Warburton....No way should he go in front of Justin Tiperic.

Chris Robshaw? Did he not come off with a sprained/broken Ankle?

BOD. might be dissapointed.

Bowe, POC. Both good players in their own right. but only just coming back from injury so they could both not make it.

Dylan Hartley Might be another English player too miss out.

Gethin Jenkins, is a possible one too be left behind.

Rob Kerney? May not make it. but would be very surprisied if he is left out.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:12 pm

fa,

You beat me to it I think Ryan might dip out due to the competition, that said he is an experienced player and leader who can cover various positions so likewise I wouldn't be surprised to see him included either.
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Post by Geordie Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:17 pm

Majestic,

Do you think hartley has a chance? I havent even considered him as i think there is much better...Best, Hibbard, T.Youngs etc.
I even think Hartley will be doing well to make the England squad in the next season...or so.

England players who will go...
Croft
Launchbury
Cole
Tuilagi
Wade (Wildcard)
T.Youngs
B.Youngs
Farrell


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Post by majesticimperialman Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:21 pm

Geordie, Regarding Hartley, Yes i think he as chance of going, but personaly i dont think he will be included due to other players, like Best, Hibbard, T Youngs.

I think all 3 of above are infront of Hartley.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:48 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:I wouldnt lose any sleep over Farrell or AWJ not going Ruby.



I wont Geordie thumbsup

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:53 pm

GF,

Don't you think Parling will go? I like Launchbury but if choice between two would go for Geoff.
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Post by ChequeredJersey Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:55 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if we managed to win the Aviva Premiership but saw no Quins Lions, think Care and Robshaw will (wrongly) miss out and pretty certain Brown and Marler will.
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Post by Geordie Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:58 pm

No i dont see Parling going BW, but in Launchbury we have quite a player and i just think Gatland will take a chance on him. His performances are consistently high, and he offers athleticism aswell...

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Post by fa0019 Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:59 pm

Why would Parling go if Gatland takes Evans and O'Connell? He's a lineout specialist and England lineout captain yet they had the worst lineout success rate in the 6N.
In the QF vs. Toulon Croft ruled the roost until he went off injured... Parling couldn't pick up the mantle... I recall him playing well vs. Wales in the loose though. I'd rather have Jim Hamilton as a lineout captain over Parling.

Also - Who would go in place of Care.. Murray? He was shocking on the weekend and in the 6N. Laidlaw perhaps but I've always thought you need a proper 9 and a proper 10 taking the field.... not a halfway house.

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