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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

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trebellbobaggins
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Post by KP_fan Fri 03 May 2013, 8:27 pm

Here is my ranking from most likely to win at No. 1to least likely at No.8 .....for the final version of champion’s trophy:

1) England have the conditions to suit their seam bowlers. And have a pretty good spinner in Swann....most experienced spin bowler in English conditions actually.

And have pretty solid batting lead by Superman Cook on top.
They have the "solidest" inning builder type batters in these conditions....KP will be missed....but would have been missed much more had this CT been in subcontinent or WI.

The've gotta use Morgan the most explosive batsman now wisely.

Given that Eng play NZ, Lanka and Aus.....home support, making it to semis is almost certain...I would back them to go all the way to finals.

2) SA: have the innings building type batters ......and great seam bowling...and they have recent English experience.
what they lack vis a vis England is spin bowling and more importantly....clicking / gelling as an ODI team.
They have experimented too much lately and this CT format gives only 3 games...so no time to prepare and sort the combination out in the midst of the tournament.
Kallis pulling out is a blow...yet they are No2 ranked in my eyes. Certainly will go to semis and by that time would have found the right combo.

3) Aus: Their batting isn’t as strong anymore....but they have top quality seam bowling and a number of allrounders to choose from.
They are still a force to reckon in ODIs...and in my rankings certain to make it to semis

4) & 5) are India and Pakistan

I would have rated Pakistan higher than India a month back….now they are at par.

The riddance of oldies and the confidence from the 4-0 seris win vs. Aus and the emergence of Dhawan, Vijay, Pujara ( hope they pick Pujara) has boosted India's batting. Seam bowling cupboard is overflowing.....Yadav is back…..In pathan and B. Kumar Ind has seam bowling allrounders and we hear Vinay Kumatr will be back on the back of his great IPL bowling.

India's problems will be in insisting the inclusion of Dhoni'sn favorite's like Rohit...and general weakness of batting if the conditions are too seam friendly.

Pakistan are the strongest and most mercurial bowling side now and have been for a long time.......much stronger bowling than India and I believe the strongest allround attack in the world.
Just that their batting is extremely inept in seaming conditions....which brings them at par with India on the whole.

6) NZ: are where they have been since time immemorial that I have been seeing them...always the dark horses...always capable of beating anyone on their day and punching above their weight.

Their seam bowling will be more potent in England….but they lack a spinner They need Taylor also to put behind the bad taste in his mouth and perform at his best.

7) WI: They had excited me in the last 3 years with the caliber of pace bowling, attacking batsman-ship and spin bowling, batting and bowling allrounder they have produced ...world class.....and I was sensing a Calypso renaissance.
But they flattered to deceive.....not for lack of talent but rather application/ team spirit.
The happy go lucky brand of their cricket doesn't extend their seriousness beyond T20 and IPLs.
The might crumble in heap from winning situations in CT is what I predict.

8) Lanka: Have regressed....unsettled with captaincy.....conflict between players and board.....and seriously flawed in their technical application with the bat outside the subcontinent


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Post by kingraf Fri 03 May 2013, 8:48 pm

What's remarkable about NZ, is that they always seem to have their 'day' in ICC tourneys
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Post by Shelsey93 Fri 03 May 2013, 9:53 pm

Its a really open tournament with the format as it is. England and SA are probably rightly favourites, but all of the eight teams must feel that they have some chance of winning.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 May 2013, 12:05 pm

England are the best in the world in ODIs in England, so I would make them rightful favourites. However, some doubts persist - no KP, Swann is half-fit, Bopara is in the squad. Either England or South Africa for me, India as dark horses.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 04 May 2013, 3:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:England are the best in the world in ODIs in England, so I would make them rightful favourites. However, some doubts persist - no KP, Swann is half-fit, Bopara is in the squad. Either England or South Africa for me, India as dark horses.

as I said before because it's home pitches and home condtions........this is one time Eng will miss KP least.
and they have plenty of bolwing allrounder and bowlers who can bat usefully like Swann,. Broad, Bresnan.

The strongest challanger to the title is Australia..they have always been a force and even in their diluted form they are in ODIs

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Post by Pal Joey Sat 04 May 2013, 4:03 pm

We are the dark elephants... flying under the radar hopefully.

To be honest, I haven't even had a proper look at our squad - so here it is:

Michael Clarke (capt), George Bailey (vice-capt), David Warner, Shane Watson, Phil Hughes, Adam Voges, Mitchell Marsh, Matthew Wade, Glenn Maxwell, James Faulkner, Mitchell Johnson, Mitchell Starc, Clint McKay, Nathan Coulter-Nile, Xavier Doherty.

To me it's still a shadow of our former ODI sides. Potential to score some big runs against most attacks but I'll believe it when I see it... happen again.

Glad to see Mitchell Marsh there and I'll be interested to see how Coulter-Nile goes. The rest of the bowling looks well balanced. Don't know why Doherty is still there... hopefully he'll only be bringing out the towels. Wink
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Post by KP_fan Sat 04 May 2013, 4:21 pm

^^ No steve Smith Erm
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Post by Pal Joey Sat 04 May 2013, 4:25 pm

I don't get it either, KP_F.

I'm sure I heard Inverarity say something like "that he thinks he will be a very fine player but at this stage we believe he needs to work on certain aspects of his game" He didn't say what aspects.

Sounds a bit harsh, imo. They should get the guy more exposure out on the field... he's a born cricketer, just needs to be in his element.
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Post by Shelsey93 Sat 04 May 2013, 4:41 pm

I guess from that squad the Australian XI will be:

Watson
Warner
Hughes
Clarke
Bailey
Wade (wk)
Maxwell/ Marsh
Johnson
Starc
McKay
Doherty

A bit of an issue with the 5th bowler I think, but a fairly good batting line-up. I'd like to see Clarke at 3, but I don't think it will happen - Hughes deserves his place based on ODIs at home.

I'd have liked to have seen them pick Dave Hussey. An underrated finished in my view, and his spin is at least as good as Maxwell's.

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Post by Pal Joey Sat 04 May 2013, 4:48 pm

Shelsey, I think some of our selections are consolations for being left out of the Ashes squad - Johnson, Maxwell. Hussey has had a good innings or 2 in India (? haven't watched the games but glanced over a few scorecards) so if he kicks on in the latter stages of that.... then it would make us look silly again. He still has a few good years left in him I agree.
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Post by ShankyCricket Sun 05 May 2013, 8:45 pm

Dussey has said that he is not interested in the Australian cricket team anymore.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sun 05 May 2013, 8:49 pm

Duty281 wrote:England are the best in the world in ODIs in England, so I would make them rightful favourites. However, some doubts persist - no KP, Swann is half-fit, Bopara is in the squad. Either England or South Africa for me, India as dark horses.
No way are India dark horses, I don't see us having a chance with our current squad. Pujara, PK and an in form Yuvraj and I might have been more optimistic. Australia my dark horses.

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Post by Gerry SA Sun 05 May 2013, 10:11 pm

South Africa are favourites.

Under AB we have been fantastic.

SA Australia final.

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Post by Biltong Mon 06 May 2013, 9:29 am

Gee Gerry, I am so confused when it comes to our limited over selections, I hardly know who is in form and who isn't.

Our results have been as much a mixed bag as our selections.

I have no idea what to expect.
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Post by Shelsey93 Mon 06 May 2013, 11:11 am

Biltong wrote:Gee Gerry, I am so confused when it comes to our limited over selections, I hardly know who is in form and who isn't.

Our results have been as much a mixed bag as our selections.

I have no idea what to expect.

Any team with Amla, de Villiers, Steyn and Morkel stands a chance in a short tournament like this.

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Post by Gerry SA Mon 06 May 2013, 11:35 am

Biltong wrote:Gee Gerry, I am so confused when it comes to our limited over selections, I hardly know who is in form and who isn't.

Our results have been as much a mixed bag as our selections.

I have no idea what to expect.
I've gotta say I'm pretty disappointed with the squad selected.

Tsotsobe isn't good enough and I would've liked Chris Morris in the mix. Morris it could be argued is better than Ryan McLaren.

I don't see the need for Aaron Phangsio and Robbie Peterson.

Also I would've like an extra opener in the mix. Biff's ODI form has been poor in recent times.

Henry Davids wouldn't have been a bad pick IMO.

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Post by Gerry SA Mon 06 May 2013, 11:37 am

Shelsey93 wrote:
Biltong wrote:Gee Gerry, I am so confused when it comes to our limited over selections, I hardly know who is in form and who isn't.

Our results have been as much a mixed bag as our selections.

I have no idea what to expect.

Any team with Amla, de Villiers, Steyn and Morkel stands a chance in a short tournament like this.
The problem is Steyn isn't as good in ODI cricket. His length that's great in Tests gets hammered in ODIs.

With de Lange still not back up to speed from a major injury, I think not selecting Morris could be a mistake.

Morris bowls 140-147kph. Excellent lower order batsman and great fielder.

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Post by Biltong Mon 06 May 2013, 11:46 am

Shelsey93 wrote:
Biltong wrote:Gee Gerry, I am so confused when it comes to our limited over selections, I hardly know who is in form and who isn't.

Our results have been as much a mixed bag as our selections.

I have no idea what to expect.

Any team with Amla, de Villiers, Steyn and Morkel stands a chance in a short tournament like this.

Sure, chances are that they may all perform, but then our batting line up is not our problem, our bowling has been inadequate and woeful for the past few seasons.

We simply don't have good bowlers at the death and to be honest our spin bowling is mostly based on luck and a prayer.
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Post by Biltong Mon 06 May 2013, 11:47 am

Gerry SA wrote:
Shelsey93 wrote:
Biltong wrote:Gee Gerry, I am so confused when it comes to our limited over selections, I hardly know who is in form and who isn't.

Our results have been as much a mixed bag as our selections.

I have no idea what to expect.

Any team with Amla, de Villiers, Steyn and Morkel stands a chance in a short tournament like this.
The problem is Steyn isn't as good in ODI cricket. His length that's great in Tests gets hammered in ODIs.

With de Lange still not back up to speed from a major injury, I think not selecting Morris could be a mistake.

Morris bowls 140-147kph. Excellent lower order batsman and great fielder.

I fully agree with you in regards to our bowling line up.

McLaren has one good game and then goes for plenty plus in the next, he is inconsistent and I worry everytime he bowls, Petersen and Phangiso may have good records in SA, but lets get real they won't make any other top international team.
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Post by Gerry SA Mon 06 May 2013, 11:58 am

Biltong wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
Shelsey93 wrote:
Biltong wrote:Gee Gerry, I am so confused when it comes to our limited over selections, I hardly know who is in form and who isn't.

Our results have been as much a mixed bag as our selections.

I have no idea what to expect.

Any team with Amla, de Villiers, Steyn and Morkel stands a chance in a short tournament like this.
The problem is Steyn isn't as good in ODI cricket. His length that's great in Tests gets hammered in ODIs.

With de Lange still not back up to speed from a major injury, I think not selecting Morris could be a mistake.

Morris bowls 140-147kph. Excellent lower order batsman and great fielder.

I fully agree with you in regards to our bowling line up.

McLaren has one good game and then goes for plenty plus in the next, he is inconsistent and I worry everytime he bowls, Petersen and Phangiso may have good records in SA, but lets get real they won't make any other top international team.
Forgot to add its nice to see JP back. His off breaks add balance to the side.

If we win this tournament, it'll be a shame that Kallis isn't there. As he deserved to win a major ICC event.

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Post by msp83 Tue 07 May 2013, 8:05 am

I hope South Africa give young David Miller an extended stay in the team, I think he'll develop into a fine ODI cricketer. SA's ODI bowling unit has certainly been a bit of a concern. I also do share high hopes about Chris Morris, but don't think it would be a very smart move to pitch him into a global tournament without much experience, but hope he'll be given consistent opportunities pretty soon. Philander had first gained attention as a decent ODI all-rounder didn't he? Doesn't he come into the ODI mix at all? Perhaps its got to do more with his history of those little injuries?

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Post by msp83 Tue 07 May 2013, 8:15 am

With India, I also share Shanky's view that Pujara would have provided greater solidity at the top, particularly in English conditions, but I won't write off India's chances. Actually, I have this feeling, that their bowling does look a touch better than their batting, for the first time in years. Umesh Yadav always has had pace, now he seems to have added a few more useful tricks to his bowling that could make him a better death bowler. Bhuvneshwar Kumar is quite handy with the new ball even in Indian conditions, like Praveen Kumar, he could be a handful in English conditions, and in the ongoing IPL, Bhuvi has shown that he's also doing some work on his death over skills. I hope they play Irfan ahead of Ishant Sharma, he would provide the left-arm option, and he should also enjoy the English conditions besides adding to the batting lineup as well. Ravindra Jadeja is a pretty decent restrictive bowling option, and Ashwin has the experience.
The Indian lineup I would like to see
Murali Vijay
Shikhar Dhawan
Virat Kohli
Dinesh Karthik
Suresh Raina
Mahendra Singh Dhoni
Ravindra Jadeja
Irfan Pathan
Ravichandran Ashwin
Bhuvneshwar Kumar
Umesh Yadav

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Post by KP_fan Tue 07 May 2013, 12:44 pm

Ishant is Dhoni's favorite...else he would have been dropped long time back.
Once a Dhoni favourite is in the squad of 15......then he surely plays.

Ditto Rohit........he will play.
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Post by KP_fan Wed 29 May 2013, 6:02 am

SA are starting without Kallis and dunno how motivated an outgoing coach Gary Kirsten might becausing me to downgrade ther chances.
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Post by KP_fan Wed 29 May 2013, 6:18 am

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-champions-trophy-2013/content/current/story/638253.html

meanwhile dhoni complains about the new ODI rules and duncan Fletcher believes India's 3 spinners might all be needed because some of India's venues will turn.
seeing the way Swann was turning the ball in Headingley.....it appears every english pitch should offer some support...especially if India is able to put Mishra in the 11.

India needs a good tournament to diffuse the ahnger building up in the masses against BCCI
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Post by KP_fan Thu 30 May 2013, 12:06 pm

Dhoni confimred that the opening wuld be done by Dhawan and Vijay..so that makes the following as the starting 11 for India:

1) Dhwan
2) Vijay
3) Kohli
4) Rohit
5) Raina
6) Dhoni
7) Jadeja
8) Irfan / Ashwin...only variable
9) Bhuvnesh kumar
10) Ishant
11) Yadav
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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 30 May 2013, 12:16 pm

I would be surprised if Ashwin doesn't play. Lots of generalisation about English conditions going on but both Cardiff and The Oval can take spin and with lots of games in a short time probably will.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 30 May 2013, 12:20 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:I would be surprised if Ashwin doesn't play. Lots of generalisation about English conditions going on but both Cardiff and The Oval can take spin and with lots of games in a short time probably will.

I agree...that there is a lot of generalization made about the "English " conditions.
there there are perceptions of addtional challange being a spinner........given that two balls will be used.....conditions are not dry and scruffy....and the new rules on field restrictions.

On the contrary Duncan insisted and got Mishra in as a reserve spinner in the squad.....explaining that some of the grounds have spinner friendly pitches...and we have seen in IPL how spinners these days are effective even with the ne ball.

So I do agree...that chances are very high that Ashwin will play
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Post by KP_fan Fri 31 May 2013, 8:11 pm

Hmm...the top ranked side din't live to their billing today
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Post by KP_fan Sat 01 Jun 2013, 6:40 pm

--India first bowl horrbly with 8 bowlers to concede 333 runs

--and then bat brilliantly to chase them down.......on the back of a 180 odd partnership between kohli and Karthik. The morning after efefct of IPL...where 333 odd in 50 overs appears trivial

--or was it a battle of horrible bowling in which Lankans outdid the Indians ?? Hard to tell when you are not watching..

--Karthik's century makes it hard for Dhoni to leave him out...at the expense of presumably Rohit.
His god-father Srinivasan migth fall tommorow...and then a lot of moves that he makes smacking of favouritism will come under the scanner.
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 01 Jun 2013, 7:14 pm

That was some cracking stuff. I spent this afternoon feeling too ill to do much very much enjoying that game

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Post by Duty281 Sat 01 Jun 2013, 7:17 pm

KP_fan wrote:--India first bowl horrbly with 8 bowlers to concede 333 runs

--and then bat brilliantly to chase them down.......on the back of a 180 odd partnership between kohli and Karthik. The morning after efefct of IPL...where 333 odd in 50 overs appears trivial

--or was it a battle of horrible bowling in which Lankans outdid the Indians ?? Hard to tell when you are not watching..

--Karthik's century makes it hard for Dhoni to leave him out...at the expense of presumably Rohit.
His god-father Srinivasan migth fall tommorow...and then a lot of moves that he makes smacking of favouritism will come under the scanner.

It was a mixture of horrible bowling and a surprisingly flat track.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 01 Jun 2013, 7:19 pm

Yeah some mucky bowling but some good hitting on a flat track.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:48 pm

and Aus chase down 260 with more than 11 overs to spare......they could have also overhauled 333 if they had to.
pitches must be really placid or teams bowling purely as warm-up practise
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Post by Guest Sun 02 Jun 2013, 9:39 am

India's bowling will badly let them down this comp.

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Post by Biltong Tue 04 Jun 2013, 8:55 am

I see we had a nice start to our CC.

Pretty much what I expected. Whistle
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Post by Pal Joey Tue 04 Jun 2013, 1:44 pm

What's happened, Biltong?
CC? Or CT warm-up match? Who did they play?
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Post by alfie Tue 04 Jun 2013, 3:27 pm

Some big runs being scored in these warm ups...India were what , 50/5 ? And they end up with 308 !

Australian attack looks a bit pace heavy today. I think a bit more variety might be needed in this CT if the pitches are all going to be as friendly to the batsmen.

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Post by Pal Joey Tue 04 Jun 2013, 4:59 pm

Australia all out for 65 in the warm-up match. Nice work boys! Wink
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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue 04 Jun 2013, 5:31 pm

Aussie spanked. Eng aren't the only ones in terrible shape heading into this.

I just heard them saying Mitchell Stark is looking dangerous but wayward.... must be the first name that does it. Seem to be talking of him as Ashes winning material though!

oh and India really showed how sharp they are after the IPL. 50/5 to over 300. That's just what you know is never going to happen for Eng when their top order fluff it up.

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Post by shivfan Sun 09 Jun 2013, 11:58 am

Rankings already turned upside down....

India beat South Africa, and Windies beat Pakistan.
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Post by gboycottnut Sun 09 Jun 2013, 9:13 pm

Australia should have included fast bowler James Pattinson instead of Clint McKay as Pattinson's extra pace could have caused England as well as India's batsmen all sorts of problems.

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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy Empty Re: Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

Post by Shelsey93 Sun 09 Jun 2013, 10:30 pm

McKay's a top one-day bowler. Not quite at his best on Saturday but it would be surprised if he didn't have an excellent game at least once in the tournament.

Pattinson had a good start to his tour v Scotland. (Whilst everyone has been focusing on the CT the non-CT players who are in the Ashes squad, plus a few others to bolster the numbers, beat Scotland by 360 runs.)

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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy Empty Re: Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

Post by KP_fan Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:33 pm

the 8th and the 5th ranked teams are out.
tomorrow if the Eng game is rained out...would be an anticlimatic exit of the top ranked side. I hope we get atleats a 20 over game
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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy Empty Re: Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

Post by Duty281 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:07 pm

England aren't definitely out even if it is rained off. Forecast has improved for Cardiff tomorrow though, should get a game in.

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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy Empty Re: Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

Post by KP_fan Sun 16 Jun 2013, 6:25 am

Duty281 wrote:England aren't definitely out even if it is rained off. Forecast has improved for Cardiff tomorrow though, should get a game in.
 The trick would be not to try and give first side 50 overs...and then use D/L to try and squeeze 20 overs for the 2nd side.

Instead from the start they should try to make it a 30 over a side game
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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy Empty Re: Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

Post by msp83 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:13 am

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:England aren't definitely out even if it is rained off. Forecast has improved for Cardiff tomorrow though, should get a game in.
 The trick would be not to try and give first side 50 overs...and then use D/L to try and squeeze 20 overs for the 2nd side.

Instead from the start they should try to make it a 30 over a side game
Do the regulations allow that though?

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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy Empty Re: Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

Post by KP_fan Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:40 am

msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:England aren't definitely out even if it is rained off. Forecast has improved for Cardiff tomorrow though, should get a game in.
 The trick would be not to try and give first side 50 overs...and then use D/L to try and squeeze 20 overs for the 2nd side.

Instead from the start they should try to make it a 30 over a side game
Do the regulations allow that though?
there is something called commonsense.....based on weather forecast also
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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy Empty Re: Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

Post by msp83 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:33 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:England aren't definitely out even if it is rained off. Forecast has improved for Cardiff tomorrow though, should get a game in.
 The trick would be not to try and give first side 50 overs...and then use D/L to try and squeeze 20 overs for the 2nd side.

Instead from the start they should try to make it a 30 over a side game
Do the regulations allow that though?
there is something called commonsense.....based on weather forecast also
But usually, Common sense is the last thing the ICC shows on such situations.

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Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy Empty Re: Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy

Post by KP_fan Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:01 pm

the tournament favourites survive eliminiation....on the back of a bit of a lucky break....in the form of Williamson's wicket off a no-ball
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