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England vs New Zealand, 2nd test at Headingly

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 22 May 2013 - 13:52

Thread for the build up & match Smile


New from the NZ camp is that BJ Watling's knee has ruled him out, meaning he'll join Bruce Martin on the sidelones. Brendon McCullum will keep wicket, while Martin Guptill will return to the side and bat #6.

Daniel Vettori trained well yesterday, so is expected to play in place of Martin

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8706188/Watling-ruled-out-Vettori-likely-for-second-test
Likely NZ XI:
Fulton, Rutherford, Williamson, Taylor, Brownlee, Guptill, McCullum, Vettori or Bracewell, Southee, Wagner, Boult
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 22 May 2013 - 14:37

well I think Vettori's tail-end batting could be a real bonus for NZ here. Don't think his bowling will have a huge impact (this is Headingley after all).

Not a fan of McCullum at n°7, too low for me. Not convinced Guptill is the answer but there's probably not a better option for them right now.

Would be shocked if England made any changes...

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Post by NickisBHAFC Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:09

I would replace Finn for Bresnan.

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Post by msp83 Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:23

I am waiting to see Dan Vettori back in action. He's pretty much a proper batsman in my book, although not an orthodox one. The guy averages 30+, and I don't think many in that NZ lineup do that much better. Spinn may not be a match winning factor at Headingley, but I am not a huge fan of going in with an all pace attack. All such experiments in recent times have been disasters. The likes of Wagner can go for runs at times, Vettori's control from the other end could help the seamers, although he may not chip in with many wickets.
Steven Finn is a bowler who has got real pace and quality, and although his run-up issues have had a bad impact on his recent form, he still presented a serious wicket taking threat in the last game. So he most certainly has to stay in in my view. Bell's back to full fitness? Otherwise, James Taylor should get a chance.

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Post by Guest Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:27

McCullum at 6 with the gloves, Vattori at 7...and 4 quicks?

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:29

I'd have thought Brownlie's got to be under pressure again... he's scored runs in the past but he often looks very vulnerable to me.

Fulton, Rutherford, Williamson, Taylor, Guptill, McCullum, Vettori, Bracewell, Wagner, Southee, Boult.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:29

Jimmy Anderson will overtake Trueman's haul of England wickets on Trueman's old home ground. Coincidence or what?

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Post by msp83 Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:36

Vettori is certainly good enough to bat 7, and in that case they can go in with the 4 quicks. Southee and Bracewell also have some decent potential with the bat. But with their confidence not so high in the batting department, will NZ go for such a strategy?

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Post by Guest Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:38

they have to take a risk its the last game of the series and they have to win

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:39

"After a long meeting between medical staff, coach Mike Hesson and captain Brendon McCullum, team management confirmed McCullum would keep wicket, and Martin Guptill would return at No 6 in the batting order for his first test since January in South Africa. "

third paragraph of the above link. so we can rule out the Vettori + 4 seamers move. Also, as msp points out NZ's real struggles are with the batting (their bowling is much better) so would be an odd move to weaken that by including four bowlers + Vettori.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:45

3 quicks were enough to bowl England out twice at Lords - its the &@£$*%^ batting that needs to be stronger.
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Post by msp83 Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:46

Kane Williamson has been doing just alright at 3. But I said it before, and I still believe in it, I think he's more of a number 4 or 5 batsman. He can do a job at 3, but he might be better off at 5. Martin Guptill is a top order bat, and I think if they are playing him, then he should come in at 3 and KW at 5.
But again, like the Vettori+4 seamers thing, it is very unlikely to happen, although there is a certain logic to it.

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Post by liverbnz Wed 22 May 2013 - 15:47

Gary Ballance is to train with England and batting coach GG over the next few days.

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Post by msp83 Thu 23 May 2013 - 16:37

Before the match starts, a setback for New Zealand. Daniel Vettori is ruled not quite fit enough to go through the rigours of a 5 day game without any game time recently. That means NZ will go in with an all pace attack as they don't have another backup spin option. When England went all funny against South Africa by dropping Graeme Swann and going in with an all pace attack, Kevin Pietersen had to step up with the ball as well, and he was the 2nd most effective bowler for them then. Perhaps Kane Williamson, who's bowling is better than parttime, will have to take on some serious responsibility with the ball as well.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 23 May 2013 - 16:49

msp83 wrote:Before the match starts, a setback for New Zealand. Daniel Vettori is ruled not quite fit enough to go through the rigours of a 5 day game without any game time recently. That means NZ will go in with an all pace attack as they don't have another backup spin option. When England went all funny against South Africa by dropping Graeme Swann and going in with an all pace attack, Kevin Pietersen had to step up with the ball as well, and he was the 2nd most effective bowler for them then. Perhaps Kane Williamson, who's bowling is better than parttime, will have to take on some serious responsibility with the ball as well.

Yep http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8711416/Vettori-a-no-go-four-seamers-for-Black-Caps

It sounds like Vettori woke up sore this morning. Williamson and Guptill will likely both get some overs if spin is needed. Bracewell is a better #8 than Southee, but he's no Vettori with the bat
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Post by KP_fan Thu 23 May 2013 - 17:33

mcculum at 7 and vettori 8 gives 2 additional batters compared to the last game.....and strengthens the weak link batting.....NZ bowling stood out prety well against a competent batting line up.

it will be a close test if NZ can bat upto 250 in each innings
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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 23 May 2013 - 17:41

KP_fan wrote:mcculum at 7 and vettori 8 gives 2 additional batters compared to the last game.....and strengthens the weak link batting.....NZ bowling stood out prety well against a competent batting line up.

it will be a close test if NZ can bat upto 250 in each innings

It's McCullum 7 and Bracewell 8 for this test though KPF - Vettori's not yet fit enough for 5 days
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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 23 May 2013 - 18:33

Swan's in form on Twitter
Graeme Swann ‏@Swannyg66 15s
Those planning on wearing fancy dress in the western terrace tomorrow are well advised to come as arctic explorers.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 May 2013 - 10:48

It's raining so a delayed start.

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Post by dummy_half Fri 24 May 2013 - 12:03

Duty281 wrote:It's raining so a delayed start.

Well, at least it isn't snow...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 May 2013 - 14:06

Weather looks good for the rest of the day, hope to get some play in.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 May 2013 - 15:37

No scratch that, any hope of play is fast dribbling away. Weather's good for the weekend though!

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Post by NickisBHAFC Fri 24 May 2013 - 18:25

Stupid Rain mad

Wrecks everything. If it rains this weekend im going to smack someone.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 24 May 2013 - 21:46

test cricket under so much pressure from T20s......doesn't needs full day losses due to rain.
rendering the match a draw likelihood even before it starts......and rendering less attractive remaining 4 days of sponsor's interest.

given the premium value on tests....and to sustain public / sponsor interest.....a Reserve day is essential to make up the full quota of 450 overs
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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 May 2013 - 22:22

4 days, we only need 4 days, we only need 4 days. 4 days!

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Post by Shelsey93 Sat 25 May 2013 - 10:01

Still a good chance of a result with the forecast good for the next three days at least. I expect England to be unchanged (hard luck for Bres but we need Finn right).

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Post by GSC Sat 25 May 2013 - 10:34

Do wonder how feasible it would be to add a 6th day to tests that only comes into force in an entire day is completely lost
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Post by GSC Sat 25 May 2013 - 10:34

England win the toss and will bat again
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Post by Shelsey93 Sat 25 May 2013 - 10:42

GSC wrote:Do wonder how feasible it would be to add a 6th day to tests that only comes into force in an entire day is completely lost

Difficult with the tight schedules we have these days

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Post by JDizzle Sat 25 May 2013 - 10:52

It's pieces like that why I love Sky. Top stuff from Nasser.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 25 May 2013 - 11:21

Morning all.

Compton getting this ashes summer off to a horror start.

I hope eng don't capitulate again, its getting to be a bit embarresing how often they are flopping with the bat.


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Post by GSC Sat 25 May 2013 - 11:21

Compton gone for 1. Not exactly played himself into form this summer
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Post by GSC Sat 25 May 2013 - 11:22

Something just doesn't seem right about this England team. No disrespect to NZ, but England have made very heavy going of it
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 25 May 2013 - 11:23

Not good signs from Compton. Not at all
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Post by msp83 Sat 25 May 2013 - 12:11

There is nothing extra for the seamers here as yet. There is some swing, and the new ball always does things in England, nothing at all that demands playing 4 seamers. NZ's predicament is partly enforced as Vettori was proved not fit enough for test cricket, perhaps they should have given a thought about Jeetan Patel?
Cook and Trott looking comfortable by and large. England 37-1.
Bracewell's on now.

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Post by msp83 Sat 25 May 2013 - 12:15

Review here against Cook. LBW shout not given of Bracewell's bowling, its umpire's call and Cook survives.

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Post by GSC Sat 25 May 2013 - 12:17

England a bit more proactive than at Lords.
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Post by msp83 Sat 25 May 2013 - 12:25

England certainly have been far more positive. The 50 up with an edged boundary. England 53-1.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Sat 25 May 2013 - 12:58

Trott gone Crying or Very sad

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 25 May 2013 - 12:58

67-1 to 67-3 in 2 balls picard
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Sat 25 May 2013 - 12:58

And Cook Crying or Very sad

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Post by NickisBHAFC Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:00

O dear o dear

Cook and Trott really looking like they were well on the way to a huge partnership and good individual scores, then this happens!

Got high confidence in Root as its on his own patch and should have the confidence from the first test. Bell needs a big score IMO.

2 huge wickets right before lunch, gives it advantage NZ IMO.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:09

Miserable stuff from England again. All 3 were needless dismissals, time for Ian Bell to play a huge hand after lunch.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:11

Yeah Compton has to be dropped for the ashes IMO.

KP WE NEED YOU GET YOURSELF FIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by GSC Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:11

No point dropping Compton now. We're committed at this point.
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Post by guildfordbat Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:12

Definitely New Zealand's morning at the end of the session.

As in the first Test, their seamers sticking at it and chances to keeper or slips being well taken. If their batsmen could show similar application ....

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:13

England's batting problems look deeper the more this happens.

Can we really stand a chance against an aussie team with world class seamers now?

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Post by GSC Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:15

Thankfully the Aussie batting is as naff as ours.
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Post by alfie Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:47

I will take the blame for that...switched off fifteen minutes before lunch assuming a comfortable seventy odd for one...come back to see this score line : Sad


Promise to watch like a hawk from now on...

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Post by KP_fan Sat 25 May 2013 - 13:53

Shelsey93 wrote:
GSC wrote:Do wonder how feasible it would be to add a 6th day to tests that only comes into force in an entire day is completely lost

Difficult with the tight schedules we have these days

if test cricket is valued...and if the interest of paying customers and sponsors are valued....then then keeping one extra day is paramount.
it's only maximum 20% of the match time...for possible delays.

no diffrent from increasing an ODI game by an hour and 15 minutes to ensure completion of 100 overs
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