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England vs New Zealand, 2nd test at Headingly

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 22 May 2013, 1:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Thread for the build up & match Smile


New from the NZ camp is that BJ Watling's knee has ruled him out, meaning he'll join Bruce Martin on the sidelones. Brendon McCullum will keep wicket, while Martin Guptill will return to the side and bat #6.

Daniel Vettori trained well yesterday, so is expected to play in place of Martin

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8706188/Watling-ruled-out-Vettori-likely-for-second-test
Likely NZ XI:
Fulton, Rutherford, Williamson, Taylor, Brownlee, Guptill, McCullum, Vettori or Bracewell, Southee, Wagner, Boult
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun 26 May 2013, 4:43 pm

we're seeing good conditions here so batting again seems wise.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 4:48 pm

Just hope we have enough time to make NZ bat again.

Would prefer England try to rattle along as quickly as possible - treat this innings like a ODI. Don't think we can afford the slow, careful grind of the 1st innings if we want to win this.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 4:57 pm

Am I seeing this right!

Cook on 40 odd and compton on 3.


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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun 26 May 2013, 4:58 pm

haha ,yup. guess who's struggling for form?

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun 26 May 2013, 5:01 pm

see , I think this is already helping to take the hope of turning this around away from the kiwi's where following on after that bash earlier could have given them hope. I'd much rather you apply the boot when they are down like this, not let them up.

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Post by msp83 Sun 26 May 2013, 5:18 pm

That's the 50 for the England skipper. A very busy innings from Cook.

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Post by msp83 Sun 26 May 2013, 5:19 pm

And Compton hasn't reached double figures as yet!. To be fair, Cook's had a lot more of the strike as wel, but he has moved along to 54 of just 64, top order ODI batting stuff that.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 May 2013, 5:20 pm

Been a cracking day for England. The bowling was good by Finn and Swann this time around, not Anderson and Broad. Fantastic to see Swann back amongst the wickets. Good decision by Cook not to enforce the follow-on, now we can break New Zealand's spirits and have a good 4 and a half sessions to win the series 2-0. Cook is motoring! #unbeatenskipper

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 5:21 pm

Boult injured and won't bowl again this match...England's prospects just get better and better...

Very good brisk 50 for Captain Cook...just what he needed after his last few innings.


Last edited by dyrewolfe on Sun 26 May 2013, 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by msp83 Sun 26 May 2013, 5:22 pm

Think Compton should look to rotate the strike a bit more, singles will do, no need to try any big shots. But don't think remaining scoreless for so long is the ideal option for England at the moment.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun 26 May 2013, 5:31 pm

and Boults little batting cameo won't reappear either now.

Compton is out.. he's in a desperate state of form really now, messing about. With no time before the Ashes I think he could have put himself out of this side.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 5:32 pm

Compton goes for just 7 - poor defensive shot against Williamson and gets a big edge for an easy catch by Rutherford.

England 72-1 (effectively 252-1)


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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 May 2013, 5:33 pm

I wouldn't pick Compton for the Ashes now. Horrible innings that, just scratching around whilst Cook was finding it easy at the other end.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 May 2013, 5:33 pm

Yeah that was an ugly innings from Compton. Needs a good start to the Ashes series or else his place will be in trouble.

Go back to Somerset and find your form again
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 5:39 pm

compton has to go.

Not sure why we batted to see what we allready knew

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 May 2013, 5:44 pm

mystiroakey wrote:compton has to go.

Not sure why we batted to see what we allready knew

What did we already know? A guy who scored good runs in an overseas tour, and in tough conditions in India...

I'm dead against moving Root up to open. Keep him where he is doing so well at. Compton will find form again
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun 26 May 2013, 5:46 pm

How much of a lead would make England safe? 350?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 May 2013, 5:48 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:How much of a lead would make England safe? 350?

The way NZ have batted this series what they have now would be more than enough!
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun 26 May 2013, 5:49 pm

could be but that bash earlier might hint they will just heave and hope.

so you'd want a solid total. Eng will probably hope for 400 but may not get near it.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 6:04 pm

I dunno trebell.

NZ had some pretty good batting conditions today and failed to capitalise on them. I reckon a lead of 350 would be more than enough.

With rain forecast to interrupt the next day or two, I'd want to get another hundred on the board by lunch tomorrow then get NZ back in.
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun 26 May 2013, 6:08 pm

sky didn't seem sure on the weather. tomorrow looks ok and nobody knows on Tuesday. you don't want to give them two days to get a poor total.

But a day and a half under pressure under cloud chasing a high one would not be easy.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 6:08 pm

Just noticed play will probably continue until 7:00 this evening.

If that's the case England will probably declare before lunch tomorrow.
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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 6:12 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:sky didn't seem sure on the weather. tomorrow looks ok and nobody knows on Tuesday. you don't want to give them two days to get a poor total.

But a day and a half under pressure under cloud chasing a high one would not be easy.


Could work the other way too. With a decent amount of time to chase, NZ might give it a serious go and give England more chance of the win.

Given them too little time and they might try to shut up shop and hold out for the draw.

Mind you, the way the match has gone so far, you'd bet on England getting the wickets (and the win) in either scenario.
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 6:17 pm

Olly wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:compton has to go.

Not sure why we batted to see what we allready knew

What did we already know? A guy who scored good runs in an overseas tour, and in tough conditions in India...

I'm dead against moving Root up to open. Keep him where he is doing so well at. Compton will find form again

Sorry olly. What the wise allready knew OK

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 May 2013, 6:22 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:compton has to go.

Not sure why we batted to see what we allready knew

What did we already know? A guy who scored good runs in an overseas tour, and in tough conditions in India...

I'm dead against moving Root up to open. Keep him where he is doing so well at. Compton will find form again

Sorry olly. What the wise allready knew OK

Come on you Hornets Wink
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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 6:24 pm

Cheeky mysti! laughing

I've read a few suggested replacements for Compton, for the Ashes series (one being Carberry).

Agree with keeping Root and Bairstow where they are. We seem to have a pretty solid middle order...no sense disrupting it.
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 6:25 pm

Thats not Cricket dear boy..


boxing


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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 6:35 pm

Acctually I really do like Carberry as well. He can smash it in all forms..

And he is a Croydon lad probally a Palace fan!

Yeah lets give him a go!

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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 May 2013, 6:35 pm

What's going off out there? Trott's strike rate is 19, put your foot down!

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Post by hodge Sun 26 May 2013, 6:38 pm

Somerset have 3 CC games and a tour game Vs the Aussies so send Compton back there and see if he can find form before the 1st test.

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Post by hodge Sun 26 May 2013, 6:39 pm

Duty281 wrote:What's going off out there? Trott's strike rate is 19, put your foot down!

Remember what player you're talking about here.....

Probably sees how long he has left to bat and thinks about how many runs he can score, not how quickly he has to score them.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 6:41 pm

I believe one of the live texters has put his finger on it:


David Mitchell, Suffolk via text on 81111: Can't believe everyone ignoring elephant in the room over follow on. It's a purely commercial decision. If NZ bowled out today no dosh from bumper BH crowd. It's 2013 and money rules OK?

Makes sense to me...
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 6:41 pm

Troting along as per usual..

Fair enough Cook made the call to bat. And if the strike rate is about 65 plus no dramas..

He clearly didnt explain the tactics to compton and trott!

Kick em up the ass cooky!

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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 May 2013, 6:45 pm

All England have to is bat like it's a ODI game, 4 or 5 an over, and sprint off into the sunset. Instead these 2 batsmen have made 30 runs off of 17 overs. Pick it up lads, the weather isn't too good for Tuesday.

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Sun 26 May 2013, 6:47 pm

Assuming KP will be back, Root must open and Bairstow can bat 6. Compton is not good enough, and we need to be selecting for the future. Trott is Boycott in disguise. In terms of the game, pretty pathetic.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 May 2013, 6:48 pm

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:Assuming KP will be back, Root must open and Bairstow can bat 6. Compton is not good enough, and we need to be selecting for the future. Trott is Boycott in disguise. In terms of the game, pretty pathetic.

Exactly that.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 6:49 pm

even if kp isnt back give taylor a recall/


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Post by hodge Sun 26 May 2013, 6:52 pm

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:Assuming KP will be back, Root must open and Bairstow can bat 6. Compton is not good enough, and we need to be selecting for the future. Trott is Boycott in disguise. In terms of the game, pretty pathetic.

Give Compton a chance to regain some form in county championship games, then make a call I think is the best bet.

If England had chopped and changed when players weren't in form we wouldn't have had players like Bell in the England side.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 May 2013, 6:53 pm

Even if we do drop Compton I would move Trott up to open, and leave Root in the middle order where he has performed best so far.
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Post by GSC Sun 26 May 2013, 6:55 pm

Stupid batting this. Don't take the follow on with 2 days to go and Compton and Trott bat like they're trying to save the game on day 5.
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 6:55 pm

you think bell in the side is a good thing??

personally i would chop him as well .


Cook
Root
Trott
KP
Taylor
Bairstow


Is my Ideal line up.. If people want to keep Root in the middle. Fine But it would be KP's job to open..


We need that balance at the top. We need stroke players


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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 May 2013, 6:56 pm

My preferred top 6 is:

Cook
Root
Trott
KP
Bell
Bairstow/Taylor

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Sun 26 May 2013, 6:56 pm

hodge wrote:
DouglasJardinesbox wrote:Assuming KP will be back, Root must open and Bairstow can bat 6. Compton is not good enough, and we need to be selecting for the future. Trott is Boycott in disguise. In terms of the game, pretty pathetic.

Give Compton a chance to regain some form in county championship games, then make a call I think is the best bet.

If England had chopped and changed when players weren't in form we wouldn't have had players like Bell in the England side.
We need more young blood. Trott, Bell and KP are moving on. We don't need an average 30 something, when we can have an average 20 something. With Cook and Trott in the top 3, we need someone who can push the rate up a bit. Compton makes those two look like Chris Gayle.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 26 May 2013, 6:57 pm

Olly wrote:Even if we do drop Compton I would move Trott up to open, and leave Root in the middle order where he has performed best so far.

Exactly this! At least Trott has more of an opener's temperament. Root seems perfectly suited to batting in the middle order - leave him where he is, I say.
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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 May 2013, 6:57 pm

With his team leading by 289 and down by one wicket, and facing not the most lethal attack in the world (no disrespect), Trott is on 9 off of 62 balls. Doh

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 26 May 2013, 6:59 pm

DouglasJardinesbox wrote:
hodge wrote:
DouglasJardinesbox wrote:Assuming KP will be back, Root must open and Bairstow can bat 6. Compton is not good enough, and we need to be selecting for the future. Trott is Boycott in disguise. In terms of the game, pretty pathetic.

Give Compton a chance to regain some form in county championship games, then make a call I think is the best bet.

If England had chopped and changed when players weren't in form we wouldn't have had players like Bell in the England side.
We need more young blood. Trott, Bell and KP are moving on. We don't need an average 30 something, when we can have an average 20 something. With Cook and Trott in the top 3, we need someone who can push the rate up a bit. Compton makes those two look like Chris Gayle.

There's nothing up with Cook's strike rate in Tests.
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 6:59 pm

"Trott is on 9 off of 62 balls."


"At least Trott has more of an opener's temperament."


An openers job these days is to play to the in game situ. AS Cooky can do..(Strauss could also do it!)

Sadly Trott has never been able to manage this. He plays one way and one way only!!


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Post by GSC Sun 26 May 2013, 7:02 pm

Cook is on 84 from 130 and is the ODI captain. His strike rate is perfectly fine for test cricket. I'd rather have Trott at 3 than KP if I'm honest, you'll need a grinder at 3 more often than not.

Bells one of Englands best 6 batsman on form. Sadly he needs to find it sooner rather than later though.
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 26 May 2013, 7:04 pm

cookys sr is fine. But its more than that. He knows when to pick up and when not to(this isnt just based on today but throughout his carrer)

Your right Trott is the anchorman. he is the one that can stick about for ever and is the best anchor we have. if not in the world

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Post by Duty281 Sun 26 May 2013, 7:05 pm

Could have had 30-50 more runs if Trott and Compton didn't bat so selfishly. I pray Trott gets on with it tomorrow, we should want to declare by lunch.

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