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Australia AGAIN !!! Why ????

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yappysnap
Notch
sirBiggles
Pal Joey
Glas a du
Biltong
Scrumdown
HammerofThunor
SecretFly
red_stag
Luckless Pedestrian
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
ScarletSpiderman
maestegmafia
jimmyinthewell68
GLove39
fa0019
PenfroPete
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Post by PenfroPete Fri 31 May 2013, 11:12 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22724323

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-play-australia-yet-again-4032456

Once again, it's an international the weekend (30th November) before a Heineken Cup weekend (7th December probably).
It's once again outside the IRB window
Once again our regions are hamstrung by W @nkers R U s as if we haven't enough problems already !!

furious boxing steam Crying or Very sad Sad

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Post by fa0019 Fri 31 May 2013, 11:23 am

what a year it could be for AUS... Lions tour, RC, and a GS tour.

I think it could be too much come the final GS tour. I think they will suffer in 2014 because of it.

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Post by GLove39 Fri 31 May 2013, 11:26 am

If at first you don't succeed try, try again

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Post by jimmyinthewell68 Fri 31 May 2013, 11:38 am

picard no no no

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Post by maestegmafia Fri 31 May 2013, 11:46 am

If you reflect on the negatives the positives will always look so much better.

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Post by fa0019 Fri 31 May 2013, 11:46 am

Money over player welfare again... although its put in so that the union stays financially viable... if they went bust then who would pay the wages? Double edged sword.

Players will be beat after this long season and the next one. Who will have the smallest butchers bill will probably win the game.

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Post by maestegmafia Fri 31 May 2013, 11:53 am

Lots of talented youngsters to utilise at regional and international level

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 May 2013, 11:56 am

fa0019 wrote:Money over player welfare again... although its put in so that the union stays financially viable... if they went bust then who would pay the wages? Double edged sword.

Players will be beat after this long season and the next one. Who will have the smallest butchers bill will probably win the game.

Think is looking at our first choice (ish) Team Wales

Halfpenny (Blues), North (Saints), Davies (Scarlets), Roberts (Racing Metro?), Cuthbert (Blues), Biggar (Ospreys), Phillips (Bayonne);
Jenkins (Blues), Hibbard (Ospreys), Jones (Ospreys), Evans (Ospreys), AW Jones (Ospreys), Lydiate (Racing Metro?), Warburton (Blues), Faletau (Dragons)
Bench -: Owens (Scarlets), James (Bath), Mitchell (Exeter), Charteris (USAP?), Tipuric (Ospreys), L Williams (Blues), Hook (USAP), Sc Williams (Scarlets)

So that would be us missing four first choice players, almost a full bench, from this match because it is outside the IRB Window, meaning we will need to draft in players who may not be up to grade, and also hamstringing the regions chances in the HEC, where they could be earning more money if they stood a fair shot at exiting the groups.

Seeing as this is right before the openning HEC weekend, it really is a bit of a poop job on the regions. Also I predict the Scarlets will be away to a side that we should beat, when Wales play Aus, but end up losing too many players to the squad and lose the game (like Ulster away 11-12 season, and Ulster home 12-13 season) which really gets me fuming.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 May 2013, 12:17 pm

Also what happened to the whole, player wealthfare thing about not playing 4 AIs to prevent player burnout?
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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri 31 May 2013, 12:23 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Also what happened to the whole, player wealthfare thing about not playing 4 AIs to prevent player burnout?

That was NZ's idea - we turned down a game vs Wales as we didn't need the money due to the AIG shirt deal. But we're playing Japan as a 4th AI now anyway.

Daft really.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 May 2013, 12:24 pm

Ah so our press covered it (I think) with a positive spin, rather than NZ don't want to play us. Makes sense.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 31 May 2013, 12:26 pm

This is no surprise. What does the WRU care about the regions? They know they'll sell out the Millennium Stadium for this, and they can't see beyond the pound signs in front of their eyes. It's Team Wales first, the rest of Welsh rugby a distant second.

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Post by red_stag Fri 31 May 2013, 12:28 pm

Surely the Welsh public will be tired of seeing Australia at that stage.

In 2011 it had the whole Shane Williams send off behind it and a chance at proving themselves following the RWC near miss.

Then 3 Tests against Australia in summer of 2012. Then play Australia in November 2012. Then Lions go for another three Tests tests against Australia and then play them AGAIN in November.

The reason the 6 Nations are so special is that they are rare. We play England once a year. We play France once a year.

In three years Wales will have played Australia 7 times and the Lions will have played them another three.

Becomes less appealing.
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Post by SecretFly Fri 31 May 2013, 12:32 pm

The Welsh top players play against Australian players more than they play against their colleagues in the Pro12.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 31 May 2013, 12:36 pm

SecretFly wrote:The Welsh top players play against Australian players more than they play against their colleagues in the Pro12.

Too true. The top welsh players (who are still based in Wales) basically have the following annual schedule

Summer Tour (Int), Rest/Recovery, AIs, HEC, Rest/Recovery, HEC, Rest/Recovery, 6Ns, Rest/Recovery, Rabo (if fit).
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Post by HammerofThunor Fri 31 May 2013, 12:49 pm

The reasons these are scheduled is because the Regions agreed to them for the £6M. Hopefully they'll use this knowledge when the agreement is renegotiated. If it happens again you have to blaim the regions for it.

As for Australia, I suppose it's because New Zealand refused for 'player welfare' reasons. So you would have had only South Africa as the big game. The smaller ones don't tend to sell out so one big game would result in a massive fall off. Also, since a lot of PI, US and Canadian players are in Europe they wouldn't be released for it..

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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 12:59 pm

Just for the record, England also play a 4th international in the autumn so Leicester, Saracens and Harlequins will be similarly affected.

The 4th AI is just another convenient excuse for our regions non performance. The real reason is poor coaching and poor planning at board level. When will they ever take any responsibility?



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Post by Biltong Fri 31 May 2013, 1:03 pm

Money rules.

Players are way down the totem pole of importance for the guys with pinstriped suits in glass offices.
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Post by SecretFly Fri 31 May 2013, 1:14 pm

I'd guess Welsh players might be getting fed up seeing the Aussies (as a particular International unit), BUT, I'd still say they aren't exactly being dragged kicking and screaming to their extra AI games - and in reality they'll probably be looking forward to another crack at Australia (no matter how the Lions goes). Welsh players like their Internationals.

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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 1:16 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:This is no surprise. What does the WRU care about the regions? They know they'll sell out the Millennium Stadium for this, and they can't see beyond the pound signs in front of their eyes. It's Team Wales first, the rest of Welsh rugby a distant second.

RRW want more money, the community game needs more money, the national sides need more money. How is all of this going to be financed?

Have a think before you post.

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Post by Glas a du Fri 31 May 2013, 1:18 pm

It's easy boys. Get a twitter and Facebook campaign going - boycott the blighters...

Something like THIS


Last edited by Glas a du on Fri 31 May 2013, 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 1:18 pm

Biltong wrote:Money rules.

Players are way down the totem pole of importance for the guys with pinstriped suits in glass offices.

But the main cost is player wages. How are these going to be paid?

Think!

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Post by jimmyinthewell68 Fri 31 May 2013, 1:24 pm

we got to beat them sometime . so fingers cross and be positive Yahoo Fingers Crossed

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Post by Glas a du Fri 31 May 2013, 1:26 pm

OK, say we scrape a win. How will you feel when all four Welsh regions are knocked out of Europe the following week?
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Post by fa0019 Fri 31 May 2013, 1:31 pm

The stupid thing is... the players will be available for the Tonga match but not the Australia match. Surely the Tonga match is the one where you could do without your best and not get a hiding.

Then again the WRU do have problems selling tickets for non 3N sides in the AIs so for their extra match they may have wanted a bigger side to increase ticket demand. I imagine AUS are one of the only other sides who want a 4th fixture mind... as they are up S*** creek to financially.

Overall I think they should have planned their scheduled better. Tonga is still a good match to go and watch. It would have been more sensible.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 31 May 2013, 1:31 pm

Scrumdown wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:This is no surprise. What does the WRU care about the regions? They know they'll sell out the Millennium Stadium for this, and they can't see beyond the pound signs in front of their eyes. It's Team Wales first, the rest of Welsh rugby a distant second.

RRW want more money, the community game needs more money, the national sides need more money. How is all of this going to be financed?

Have a think before you post.

The WRU is raking it in already, but it's sitting on the money.

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Post by Biltong Fri 31 May 2013, 1:37 pm

Scrumdown wrote:
Biltong wrote:Money rules.

Players are way down the totem pole of importance for the guys with pinstriped suits in glass offices.

But the main cost is player wages. How are these going to be paid?

Think!
Who should think? Me?
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Post by Pal Joey Fri 31 May 2013, 1:45 pm

Glas a du wrote:OK, say we scrape a win. How will you feel when all four Welsh regions are knocked out of Europe the following week?

Responsible.

I agree. As much as I love watching all these games against Wales it's only a matter of time before we're all burnt out.
I'd rather see a cricket match between Tasmania and Glamorgan or a sister city alliance between Llanharry and Gulargambone.

There are many ways to foster our friendship... but this over-reliance on blydi rugby internationals between our 2 great nations is pushing us all to the limits of nuttiness!

Think!

(my head hurts....) Wink




When do tickets go on sale?

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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 1:46 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The WRU is raking it in already, but it's sitting on the money.

WRONG

Turnover is high
Surplus after all costs is around £1million.

You are clearly ignorant of the facts.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 31 May 2013, 1:47 pm

Less of the schmaltz, Linebreaker!

Think!

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Post by Biltong Fri 31 May 2013, 1:48 pm

Scrumdown wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The WRU is raking it in already, but it's sitting on the money.

WRONG

Turnover is high
Surplus after all costs is around £1million.

You are clearly ignorant of the facts.
And you are arrogant, did the welsh Rugby union not just make a profit?

Hold back a little and stop being so judgemental and know it all.
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Post by SecretFly Fri 31 May 2013, 1:49 pm

Scrumdown wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The WRU is raking it in already, but it's sitting on the money.

WRONG

Turnover is high
Surplus after all costs is around £1million.

You are clearly ignorant of the facts.

One million for a game? Nice. Why is that not raking it in? Better one million than none.

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Post by sirBiggles Fri 31 May 2013, 1:53 pm

PenfroPete wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22724323

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-play-australia-yet-again-4032456

Once again, it's an international the weekend (30th November) before a Heineken Cup weekend (7th December probably).
It's once again outside the IRB window
Once again our regions are hamstrung by W @nkers R U s as if we haven't enough problems already !!

furious boxing steam Crying or Very sad Sad



Where did you get this snippet from PenfroPete, I know your links are usually genuine, but the BEEB one throws a page not found and the Wales On line page reads like a kid authored it... Also, they report to break the news yesterday, yet no mention at all of it on the WRU site.

I suspect this is a journo getting a story in early, even if there are no facts to back it up. The BEEB stumbled on it and reported it, hence the link, only to find, after contacting the WRU that there is no truth in it, or it has not be agreed yet.
- Link now working sorry I doubted Penfro...


On the flip side, if we do play Aus, then I think it would be a good thing. We need to compete with the top 3 anually, and next autumn, we have the Boks, Pumas and Tonga. I know last years AI are best forgotten, but if we want to rise to the top table and stay there, we need to play Boks, Wallabies and All Blacks every year if possible.


Last edited by sirBiggles on Fri 31 May 2013, 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by SecretFly Fri 31 May 2013, 1:58 pm

It's genuine sirBiggles. Pages open for me ..and the Wales Online one looks like the kid was adult enough to make sense to me Wink.

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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 1:59 pm

A profit of £1million is hardly raking it in when there is a bank loan of £20million still outstanding which is secured on the WRU main asset, the Millenium Stadium!

Also hardly raking it in when a 3 year contract for a top international can be worth more than £1million.

Think!
Engage your brain!!

The WRU is not awash with cash. So the regions need to generate their own funding just as Leinster, Leicester and Exeter do.



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Post by sirBiggles Fri 31 May 2013, 2:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's genuine sirBiggles. Pages open for me ..and the Wales Online one looks like the kid was adult enough to make sense to me Wink.

Thanks SecretFly, the BEEB page has opened for me now, was getting a 404 Page Not Found error... But working now, so I withdraw my sceptism...

Sorry for doubting Penfro... Sorry

Stick by my comment that I think it is a good idea though. Only problem being, we wont have our first choice team available to us, as cant see the French or English clubs releasing our players.


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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 31 May 2013, 2:18 pm

Scrumdown wrote:A profit of £1million is hardly raking it in when there is a bank loan of £20million still outstanding which is secured on the WRU main asset, the Millenium Stadium!

Also hardly raking it in when a 3 year contract for a top international can be worth more than £1million.

Think!
Engage your brain!!

The WRU is not awash with cash. So the regions need to generate their own funding just as Leinster, Leicester and Exeter do.



If what you say is true, just how were the WRU proposing to pay for the central contracts they were so keen on?

I'm asking because you know everything about everything and seem so calm and even-tempered.

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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 2:28 pm

Luckless pedestrian.

I could tell you to do your own research but:

In summary, during the year to june 2012, the welsh regions received £15.1million in funding via the WRU. The source of this funding was tv moneys of £9million and WRU funding if £6.1million.

The amounts are disclosed in the WRU accounts.

The salary caps currently stand at £3.5million. I will let you do the maths.

The regions need to generate more money themselves from sponsorship and gate receipts so that they can increase their salary cap and be competitive in Europe. This is the only long term solution. Otherwise WRU control is inevitable.

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Post by Notch Fri 31 May 2013, 2:37 pm

fa0019 wrote:Money over player welfare again... although its put in so that the union stays financially viable... if they went bust then who would pay the wages?

Racing Metro?

My understanding was the regions paid the wages, whilst the WRU have them preparing for big games without the players they are paying. Everybody wins. The WRU, The WRUs accountants, the Millenium Stadium... everybody wins.

For my part, I'm just excited to see Wales vs Australia. Real sense of occasion what with it being so long since the last one. If it keeps on like this there will be Welsh internationals with more caps vs Australia than Pro12 appearances! Smile
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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 2:43 pm

Glas a du wrote:OK, say we scrape a win. How will you feel when all four Welsh regions are knocked out of Europe the following week?

What about Leicester, Saracens and Harlequins whose internationals will also be away with England and therefore similarly affected?

Think!!

Engage your brain!!




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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 31 May 2013, 2:43 pm

Forgive me, Scrumdown, maybe I'm just simple, but I don't think that answers my question.

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Post by Notch Fri 31 May 2013, 2:45 pm

Scrumdown wrote:What about Leicester, Saracens and Harlequins whose internationals will also be away with England and therefore similarly affected?

Think!!

Engage your brain!!

Unless your point is that the RFU are similarly greedy and short-sighted, I'm not sure your argument is as effective as you think- if we're up against any of those three or a Welsh side in Round 3 next year I'll be laughing.
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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 3:07 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Forgive me, Scrumdown, maybe I'm just simple, but I don't think that answers my question.

The regions already receive enough funding from the WRU. They just don't generate enough themselves from gate receipts and sponsorship due to poor leadership at board level.

You will be surprised to know, no doubt that the welsh regions receive more funding on average than the aviva clubs in England. £3.75 million compared to £3.5million in England.

But leicester get gates of 18k and Cardiff Blues 8k so they have more funds to strengthen their squad. Funds they have generated themselves not from the RFU!


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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 31 May 2013, 3:12 pm

I didn't ask about regional funding, I asked how the WRU can afford to fund the central contracts they were so keen on if they're as hard up as you suggest.


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Post by yappysnap Fri 31 May 2013, 3:12 pm

THIIIINK!

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Post by thebluesmancometh Fri 31 May 2013, 3:24 pm

Scrumdown wrote:
You will be surprised to know, no doubt that the welsh regions receive more funding on average than the aviva clubs in England. £3.75 million compared to £3.5million in England.



You might as well make this your username the amount of times you dribble this garbage out, if however you knew how the funding worked I may be able to take you more seriously!

Luckless

It's easy, the WRU can afford central contracting in the way they put the proposal toward the regions...

If the regions give up control of their prize assets, the WRU are willing to pay wages of those prized assets and do what they will with them. All seems very pleasant until you read the fine print...

The regions will no longer receive funding whatsoever Laugh Therefore signing away their best players and losing out on the peanut shells they all sit around the table and beg for now!

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Australia AGAIN !!! Why ???? Empty Re: Australia AGAIN !!! Why ????

Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 3:45 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
You will be surprised to know, no doubt that the welsh regions receive more funding on average than the aviva clubs in England. £3.75 million compared to £3.5million in England.



You might as well make this your username the amount of times you dribble this garbage out, if however you knew how the funding worked I may be able to take you more seriously!

Luckless

It's easy, the WRU can afford central contracting in the way they put the proposal toward the regions...

If the regions give up control of their prize assets, the WRU are willing to pay wages of those prized assets and do what they will with them. All seems very pleasant until you read the fine print...

The regions will no longer receive funding whatsoever Laugh Therefore signing away their best players and losing out on the peanut shells they all sit around the table and beg for now!

Bluesman

Aviva clubs funding from tv and rfu: £3.5million.
Welsh regions from tv and wru: £3.75million.

Leicester attendance: 18k
Blues attendace: 8k

This is not rocket science. Engage your brain for once! Think! What is the solution? The answer is staring you in the face! Why are Leicester making money? Is it because they receive more funding from the RFU? NOOOOO!




Scrumdown

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri 31 May 2013, 3:55 pm

Scrumdown wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
You will be surprised to know, no doubt that the welsh regions receive more funding on average than the aviva clubs in England. £3.75 million compared to £3.5million in England.



You might as well make this your username the amount of times you dribble this garbage out, if however you knew how the funding worked I may be able to take you more seriously!

Luckless

It's easy, the WRU can afford central contracting in the way they put the proposal toward the regions...

If the regions give up control of their prize assets, the WRU are willing to pay wages of those prized assets and do what they will with them. All seems very pleasant until you read the fine print...

The regions will no longer receive funding whatsoever Laugh Therefore signing away their best players and losing out on the peanut shells they all sit around the table and beg for now!

Bluesman

Aviva clubs funding from tv and rfu: £3.5million.
Welsh regions from tv and wru: £3.75million.

Leicester attendance: 18k
Blues attendace: 8k

This is not rocket science. Engage your brain for once! Think! What is the solution? The answer is staring you in the face! Why are Leicester making money? Is it because they receive more funding from the RFU? NOOOOO!




It's worth noting that the RFU pay that £3.5m to all 12 clubs for player release - so on a £ per player basis they're putting a lot more £s into the clubs. The RFU's revenue is roughly double the WRU's, but they pay nearly 4 times as much to the top flight clubs.


Last edited by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Fri 31 May 2013, 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)

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Location : London, England

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Australia AGAIN !!! Why ???? Empty Re: Australia AGAIN !!! Why ????

Post by thebluesmancometh Fri 31 May 2013, 3:56 pm

Scrumdown wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
You will be surprised to know, no doubt that the welsh regions receive more funding on average than the aviva clubs in England. £3.75 million compared to £3.5million in England.



You might as well make this your username the amount of times you dribble this garbage out, if however you knew how the funding worked I may be able to take you more seriously!

Luckless

It's easy, the WRU can afford central contracting in the way they put the proposal toward the regions...

If the regions give up control of their prize assets, the WRU are willing to pay wages of those prized assets and do what they will with them. All seems very pleasant until you read the fine print...

The regions will no longer receive funding whatsoever Laugh Therefore signing away their best players and losing out on the peanut shells they all sit around the table and beg for now!

Bluesman

Aviva clubs funding from tv and rfu: £3.5million.
Welsh regions from tv and wru: £3.75million.

Leicester attendance: 18k
Blues attendace: 8k

This is not rocket science. Engage your brain for once! Think! What is the solution? The answer is staring you in the face! Why are Leicester making money? Is it because they receive more funding from the RFU? NOOOOO!




Do they receive any money directly from the RFU? NOOOO!

And this 3.5 million you speak of, is this not central funds only, making up but a part of their yearly income?

thebluesmancometh

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Post by Scrumdown Fri 31 May 2013, 4:08 pm

Bluesman.

Yes, £3.5million is tv money and rfu compensation via PRL!!

Is the £3.75million not just part of he regions yearly income too????who us responsible for generating income from gate receipts and sponsorship??? Do you even know what the cardiff blues turnover is ?

You should just admit that you haven't a clue what you are talking about because it is all to obvious to those of us who do.


Scrumdown

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