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Liverpool Thread: Road to thinking we might get top 4, only to feel stupid at the end of the season

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Liverpool Thread: Road to thinking we might get top 4, only to feel stupid at the end of the season - Page 14 Empty Liverpool Thread: Road to thinking we might get top 4, only to feel stupid at the end of the season

Post by Crimey on Wed 05 Jun 2013, 2:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Transfer ins:
Kolo Toure (free transfer from Manchester City)

Transfers out:
Danny Wilson (free to Hearts)
Jamie Carragher (free to Sky)
Peter Gulacsi (free to Salzburg)


Last edited by Crimey on Fri 07 Jun 2013, 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by lfc91 on Mon 03 Mar 2014, 8:28 pm

DAVE667 wrote:What about a sizable chunk going towards redeveloping Anfield?

I could live with that, anything that gets the redevelopment started!!

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Post by Kenny on Mon 03 Mar 2014, 11:10 pm

any transfer fee if it should happen has to go majorly into team strengthening but yeh getting the ground development started gets my vote .

on the subject of the sunday games i don't think it's right we play the day after Chelsea Arsenal and Man City on i think it's 2 or 3 weekends ........ but then it's probably down to sky as i heard all our games will be shown from now until the end of the season
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Post by Fernando on Tue 04 Mar 2014, 8:38 pm

Liverpool announce 49.8m loss - Does this not push your guys literally borderline of FFP? So your hard work could all be for nothing.

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Post by socal1976 on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 7:18 am

NOt a LFC fan but if the gunners don't win it I hope you guys win it. And it is looking more likely we are out of it. In between Chelsea owned by a Russian rackateer and managed by the pompous one, and Man City owned by an oil sheik filled with mercenaries I hope LFC get the title if we don't. Plus you guys are playing some exceptional stuff right now.

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Post by Stella on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 9:18 am

socal1976 wrote:NOt a LFC fan but if the gunners don't win it I hope you guys win it. And it is looking more likely we are  out of it. In between Chelsea owned by a Russian rackateer and managed by the pompous one, and Man City owned by an oil sheik filled with mercenaries I hope LFC get the title if we don't. Plus you guys are playing some exceptional stuff right now.

You're on the same number of points?
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Post by Fernando on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 11:29 am

Stella wrote:
socal1976 wrote:NOt a LFC fan but if the gunners don't win it I hope you guys win it. And it is looking more likely we are  out of it. In between Chelsea owned by a Russian rackateer and managed by the pompous one, and Man City owned by an oil sheik filled with mercenaries I hope LFC get the title if we don't. Plus you guys are playing some exceptional stuff right now.

You're on the same number of points?

Try telling the media that. Apparently we're falling apart despite being 4 pts off the top and joining Chelsea & United in losing at Stoke with Citeh getting a draw.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 12:02 pm

Might be cos arguably Arsenal have given only 2 or 3 convincing performances of title challengers since the year began (Spurs, Fulham, Sunderland as beating Coventry doesnt count)

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Post by Stella on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 12:04 pm

Not just the media, Fernando. Some FB friends are saying that the cup is their only hope. This could be due to the fact that Arsenal normally waiver come February/March.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 12:48 pm

Fixture list comes into account as well.

Le arse have some proper tough games on the horizon, Liverpool have a relatively easy run in
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Post by socal1976 on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 7:10 pm

Stella, I think it is more about Arsenal's form and Liverpool's form. Liverpool are trending up where Arsenal are trending down. I fee that the losses of Walcott and in particular Ramsey has really hurt the team. It would be nice if we had one year where we didn't lose multiple star players for huge chunks of the season. Liverpool also has the easier fixtures and no Europe or FA cup to worry about. I can't see the gunners doing it at this point. And Liverpool is the lesser evil between Jose and Team Abu Dhabi.

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Post by Stella on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 7:30 pm

socal

I get your points, but I don't get this 'Arsenal are out of it' mentality that some Arsenal fans have gained. If they can scrape some points together, then their run in is easy...........on paper.
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Post by lfc91 on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 8:51 pm

socal1976 wrote:Stella, I think it is more about Arsenal's form and Liverpool's form. Liverpool are trending up where Arsenal are trending down. I fee that the losses of Walcott and in particular Ramsey has really hurt the team. It would be nice if we had one year where we didn't lose multiple star players for huge chunks of the season. Liverpool also has the easier fixtures and no Europe or FA cup to worry about. I can't see the gunners doing it at this point. And Liverpool is the lesser evil between Jose and Team Abu Dhabi.

Injuries happen in football. Liverpool were missing arguably their entire starting back for at the same time for a number of weeks, lucas been out for months, sturridge had over a month out and we started the season with our best player banned for a number of games!(ok thats not an injury but still a big absense to deal with). Thats why the teams with the best squads (such as city and chelsea) will be favourites to win the league.

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Post by socal1976 on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 9:47 pm

Stella wrote:socal

I get your points, but I don't get this 'Arsenal are out of it' mentality that some Arsenal fans have gained. If they can scrape some points together, then their run in is easy...........on paper.

I never really thought they would win it this year. I think they could have but frankly I still feel we are 1 or 2 pieces away. That being said they are still in contention. If Arsenal play well in March and knock Chelsea and City back a peg then they have a shot. But I really think missing our best player this season Ramsey and maybe our second best attacker in Theo is a big loss. As LFC points out injuries happen, but some injuries are harder to replace than others. If we get a top striker next year look out with the midfield we have and the rest of the components. Not saying we can't win it, just saying the odds have become much longer and looking at current form things don't look good. I will say this that we played well against sunderland, Liverpool in the FA cup, and against Munich till the redcard and penalty happened. But really against Stoke we reverted to some old bad habits. No it is not impossible but becoming more improbable. I would be ecstatic if we win the FA cup and finish top 4 again. To me that would still be a successful season.

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Post by Guest on Thu 06 Mar 2014, 11:16 am

finish top 4 again. To me that would still be a successful season
..and therein lies the problem. That's been Arsenal's (or just Arsene's) mentality for so many years it's unreal.


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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Mar 2014, 1:09 pm

Haha, winning the FA Cup and finishing fourth would be failure for Arsenal.

It would be stagnation; settling for the mediocre rather than aiming to reach a more luxurious plane. It's Wenger's whole philosophy.

And that, sadly, is why Arsenal haven't moved forward in recent time.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 06 Mar 2014, 1:12 pm

Get the monkey off their back, get a trophy in. It would be acceptable, little else

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Post by Kenny on Thu 06 Mar 2014, 4:18 pm

personally i would put trophies over CL qualification but i am in the minority i know .

just out of interest how do everyone see the final top 4 places going ?
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Post by socal1976 on Thu 06 Mar 2014, 6:59 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
finish top 4 again. To me that would still be a successful season
..and therein lies the problem. That's been Arsenal's (or just Arsene's) mentality for so many years it's unreal.


Did you miss the part where I said win the FA cup? I don't see how winning the FA cup and qualifying for Europe is a failure. Hasn't everyone been saying that winning trophies is what it is about? I consider the FA cup to be a prestigious and major trophy. And yes qualifying for CL is a huge deal. I like seeing my team play and compete against the Juventus, Milans, Bayern, Barca, and REal Madrid's of the world. It means a lot of money to the club and when you take a major scalp the fans remember it and enjoy it. I never said just top 4 qualification is enough. I said top 4, and the FA cup. The FA cup is a big deal still and a major trophy. So under your analysis every big team that doesn't win the CL and their domestic league is a failure, I just don't see it that way.

But this is a lfc thread, so my apologies for taking it over with Arsenal talk. I want anyone but city or Chelsea, and I like the football LFC has played this year and the fact they aren't owned by a rackateer or a dictator. Other than that I won't be stating much else on this thread and will move my comments to the premier league thread.

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Post by lfc91 on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 8:35 am

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2014/03/06/liverpool-to-opt-against-making-aly-cissokho-move-permanent/130719/

Great news!

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Post by Guest on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 10:38 am

socal1976 wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
finish top 4 again. To me that would still be a successful season
..and therein lies the problem. That's been Arsenal's (or just Arsene's) mentality for so many years it's unreal.


Did you miss the part where I said win the FA cup? I don't see how winning the FA cup and qualifying for Europe is a failure. Hasn't everyone been saying that winning trophies is what it is about? I consider the FA cup to be a prestigious and major trophy. And yes qualifying for CL is a huge deal. I like seeing my team play and compete against the Juventus, Milans, Bayern, Barca, and REal Madrid's of the world. It means a lot of money to the club and when you take a major scalp the fans remember it and enjoy it. I never said just top 4 qualification is enough. I said top 4, and the FA cup. The FA cup is a big deal still and a major trophy. So under your analysis every  big team that doesn't win the CL and their domestic league is a failure, I just don't see it that way.

But this is a lfc thread, so my apologies for taking it over with Arsenal talk. I want anyone but city or Chelsea, and I like the football LFC has played this year and the fact they aren't owned by a rackateer or a dictator. Other than that I won't be stating much else on this thread and will move my comments to the premier league thread.
Didn't miss it at all, I just dismissed it out of hand it as Arsenal are clearly averse to winning anything. Arsene/Derren Brown is content to warp the minds of Arsenal fans and have them believe that true success lies not in silverware or titles but in a healthy bank balance and sexy looking spreadsheet. No need to over-exert oneself actually winning anything when a top four finish and qualification from the CL group stages is enough to keep Kronke and his cronies in silky socks for another season. Nice work if you can get it, fella.

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Post by Fernando on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 10:42 am

Brendan Rodgers...

"When I eventually retire from football I want to be able to look back and see that not only have I won trophies but I've developed a football club that has brought through their own players and individuals and made them better.

"Other managers may be different and might just be about purely winning trophies, but for me success isn't picking up the trophy at the end of the season.

"It's also about the football club, giving the value to young players and seeing them develop

Seems he has that mindset as well Dave.

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Post by Guest on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:07 am

Ah, but you can clearly see from this part "that not only have I won trophies", he DOES want to win trophies and titles.

Wenger seems reluctant to voice any major ambition lest he fail to hit his target and be deemed a failure. No, better to aim for something safe yet achievable than "try and fail gloriously" It's all well and good having a little spat with Mourinho but Jose does genuinely want to win stuff and doesn't care HOW he gets it. Wenger wants to believe in the beauty of football but really don't all fans want a trip to Wembley or the chance to sing "We are the Champions"?

I think the loss to Birmingham in the Cup final really kicked the stuffing out of Wenger. It's like he's terrified that if Arsenal win something they'll have to go to the tiresome bother of doing it all again.

For a team with such resources at their disposal, their fans do genuinely seem angry at the club's lack of drive. The media joke that if you tell Arsenal that they have a shot at the title they'll wither and die but tell them there's a chance for a fourth place finish, they'll knock down walls to get there.

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Post by Fernando on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:12 am

DAVE667 wrote:Ah, but you can clearly see from this part "that not only have I won trophies", he DOES want to win trophies and titles.

Does it not worry you that if he doesn't he's happy developing a football club that has brought through their own players and individuals and made them better.

That is essentially Arsenal the past few years

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Post by Guest on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:27 am

No, doesn't worry me in the slightest. Whilst Liverpool's chances of winning a trophy might be slightly higher than most, there's bigger stronger teams above us and still an element of luck involved (as we saw in the Cup against Arsenal) but as long as the desire to challenge for trophies and titles is there and a willingness to improve, I'll be happy. Sadly, I'm aware that we will probably never be able to compete financially with the big boys and that will hamper our goals to some degree so whilst there will be an element of frustration it will be tempered with an understanding of why.

What confuses/angers a number of Arsenal fans is that a club co-owned by three billionaires, seems unwilling to spend money to secure titles. Wenger may be happy to take the moral high ground on that topic but the average Arsenal fan would chew of their left nipple for a spending spree that resulted in Silverware.

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Post by socal1976 on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 5:42 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
finish top 4 again. To me that would still be a successful season
..and therein lies the problem. That's been Arsenal's (or just Arsene's) mentality for so many years it's unreal.


Did you miss the part where I said win the FA cup? I don't see how winning the FA cup and qualifying for Europe is a failure. Hasn't everyone been saying that winning trophies is what it is about? I consider the FA cup to be a prestigious and major trophy. And yes qualifying for CL is a huge deal. I like seeing my team play and compete against the Juventus, Milans, Bayern, Barca, and REal Madrid's of the world. It means a lot of money to the club and when you take a major scalp the fans remember it and enjoy it. I never said just top 4 qualification is enough. I said top 4, and the FA cup. The FA cup is a big deal still and a major trophy. So under your analysis every  big team that doesn't win the CL and their domestic league is a failure, I just don't see it that way.

But this is a lfc thread, so my apologies for taking it over with Arsenal talk. I want anyone but city or Chelsea, and I like the football LFC has played this year and the fact they aren't owned by a rackateer or a dictator. Other than that I won't be stating much else on this thread and will move my comments to the premier league thread.
Didn't miss it at all, I just dismissed it out of hand it as Arsenal are clearly averse to winning anything. Arsene/Derren Brown is content to warp the minds of Arsenal fans and have them believe that true success lies not in silverware or titles but in a healthy bank balance and sexy looking spreadsheet. No need to over-exert oneself actually winning anything when a top four finish and qualification from the CL group stages is enough to keep Kronke and his cronies in silky socks for another season. Nice work if you can get it, fella.


Ok so you basically took my quote, removed a material portion of it and then quoted me changing the exact meaning of what I said to fit the conclusion you wanted to draw. You are free to have any opinion you like about Arsenal/WEnger that you like. But I think it would be more fair that if you quote me you don't chose to disregard something that I post that completely alters the meaning of the quote. If you believe Arsenal don't want to win trophies that is all fine and good, just don't misquote me to support your conclusion.

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Post by Kenny on Sat 08 Mar 2014, 3:30 pm

lets get back on track and the LFC
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Post by Blade on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 1:15 pm

Hi am a Sheffield United fan and was wondering if any of you guys knows what's happening with Conor Cody?

I know he has a year left to run on his contract but what is happening after that he has said in our news paper that he wants to stay perminanlty, Would Rodgers want to let him go?

His performances as of late have been quite good after a rocky start but once he settled he has got himself going for me I would love him to stay.

I have heard he is supposed to be the next SG and that Rodgers may put him in for next season but if Cody's head is not in the right place would Rodgers let him go and would you guys want him to go?
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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 1:21 pm

I don't think Cody would be pushing for a 1st team place on his return. I think if Liverpool get Top 4, some continental quality would be brought for the Champions League etc.

The kid has got talent and with a bit of nurturing, he could become a good Premier league player in the future.

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Post by compelling and rich on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 1:30 pm

i think its safe to change the title of this thread now

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Post by Guest on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 1:58 pm

compelling and rich wrote:i think its safe to change the title of this thread now
Not until top four is a mathematical certainty dear chap

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Post by electronaut on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 2:38 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:i think its safe to change the title of this thread now
Not until top four is a mathematical certainty dear chap

As it stands the maximum number points available to everyone (ignoring the computations of teams playing each other so these are not all possible)

TeamCurrently PlayedCurrent PointsMaximum Points
Chelsea306690
Liverpool296289
Arsenal296289
Man City276093
Tottenham305377
Everton285181
Man Utd294875
The theoretical minimal target for Liverpool to guarantee top 4 is 82 pts, so that is another 20 pts from their remaining 11 games - how many points to you think they are going to need to cement top 4 and how many to win the title - given that these calcs don't include accounting for Man City going to Anfield etc - how many would be needed to win the title?

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 2:59 pm

That 20 points is the MAXIMUM amount of point Liverpool would need. And Everton would need to win every remaining game. As I can see points being dropped everywhere. I would evisage that another 14 would see use got top 4.

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Post by Stella on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 3:05 pm

Can Utd get 70 points?

Liverpool will storm to fourth and beyond.
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Post by electronaut on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 3:10 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:That 20 points is the MAXIMUM amount of point Liverpool would need. And Everton would need to win every remaining game. As I can see points being dropped everywhere. I would evisage that another 14 would see use got top 4.
Nope that 20 pts is the minimum Liverpool need to guarantee 4th assuming Everton do win all their games which is why I asked what people think the real target would be - you think another 14 which I think is pretty realistic tbh.

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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 3:19 pm

Team ave p game Projection
Chelsea 2.20 83.60
Liverpool 2.14 81.24
Arsenal 2.14 81.24
Man City 2.22 84.44
Tottenham 1.77 67.13
Everton 1.82 69.21
Man Utd 1.66 62.90

as long as the teams remain at the same form that is a projection of scores.

I can honestly see 4th place only needing 74 pts - therefore liverpool and arsernal would be safe with another 12- because i cannot see the other teams gaining so much extra form needed to get there average pts per game up



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Post by compelling and rich on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 3:25 pm

i cant see everton, spurs or united being able to put a run of results together that will really pressure any of the current top 4. all three currently not playing very well

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Post by Guest on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 3:51 pm

Like I said, I thought Utd would put up just enough resistance to scupper any chances Liverpool might have had of top four out of nothing more than spite but even then, they couldn't muster anything. For me, the danger to Liverpool is going to come from the teams battling relegation or in-house complacency and I really can't see the latter (mind you in 08/09 didn't we end up losing 2-0 to Middlesborough who got relegated so lord only knows)

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 3:56 pm

electronaut wrote:
Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:That 20 points is the MAXIMUM amount of point Liverpool would need. And Everton would need to win every remaining game. As I can see points being dropped everywhere. I would evisage that another 14 would see use got top 4.
Nope that 20 pts is the minimum Liverpool need to guarantee 4th assuming Everton do win all their games which is why I asked what people think the real target would be - you think another 14 which I think is pretty realistic tbh.
Sorry I should have worded it better. We would need AT MOST 20 points. Although I think we wont require that many points to obtain top 4.

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Post by electronaut on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 4:06 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Sorry I should have worded it better. We would need AT MOST 20 points. Although I think we wont require that many points to obtain top 4.

I re-read it and I can see what you mean - it works both ways as my wording was ambiguous too Hug

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Tue 18 Mar 2014, 4:44 pm

Haha no probs thumbsup


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Post by LivinginItaly on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:26 am

When is the liverpool v cardiff game? I thought it had been moved to sunday lunchtime for tv, but I have just checked the bbc website and it is listed as a 3pm game on sat. I need to know so I can plan my wife's shopping around the football. Cheers guys.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 9:55 am

A good old saturday at 3 o'clock mate thumbsup

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Post by TheCultOfPersonality on Sat 22 Mar 2014, 5:22 pm

I think since returning from his injury, Glen Johnson has been great, especially today. He's been making excellent runs down the flank linking up well with Henderson and has been keeping everything simple with passes and clearances.

Another hatrick for Suarez, although was a little disappointed he didn't pass it on to Sterling at the end but I don't blame him one bit. Can't believe the season he's having and breaking more and more records.

Overall an excellent and entertaining game as per usual, 3 more vital points. Up next Sunderland.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 22 Mar 2014, 5:24 pm

suraez is worth 110m in my eyes. sturridge 35m.

i hope you somehow win this league

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Post by Guest on Sat 22 Mar 2014, 5:25 pm

I've always liked you Mysti  Hug 

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 22 Mar 2014, 5:26 pm

I liked arsernal start of the season because of the amazing footie they played- now you have taken my heart. Unbelievable stuff.

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Post by Hulking_up on Sun 23 Mar 2014, 1:10 am

TheCultOfPersonality wrote:
Another hatrick for Suarez, although was a little disappointed he didn't pass it on to Sterling at the end but I don't blame him one bit.
I was expecting him to pass but you can't deny a man his hat trick.

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Post by LivinginItaly on Sun 23 Mar 2014, 7:40 am

Got the win, which is all that matters at this stage of the season, but we were terrible at the back again. If we play like that against man city they will annihilate us.

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Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:56 am

Very important win last night, but maybe the first real signs of tension and nerves for both the players and the crowd. Do you think we will be able to hold our nerve in the run in? I'm not worried about the big games as the occasion will overcome the nerves, but I do worry about games like last night. Maybe our inexperience of handling this kind of pressure will take its toll.

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Post by nasisillmatic on Thu 27 Mar 2014, 9:46 am

You will always get games like last night when you are on a good run. The important thing is to win them no matter what.

Sunderland came to stop us scoring and it nearly worked. That's a game we'd have drew before this season. I'm happy that we faced adversity, and came through it with 3 points.

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